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Amazon, Owned by World's Richest Man, Soliciting Public Donations To Pay Workers' Sick Leave (popular.info) 276

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
While much of the economy grinds to a halt, Amazon is doing more business than ever. The company has announced it is hiring 100,000 workers to try to meet surging demand. In 2019, Amazon had over $280 billion in revenue and $11.9 billion in profits. As more Americans shift their shopping online, it will likely do better this year. But, as the pandemic continues, Amazon maintains one of the stingiest paid sick leave policies among major corporations. Judd Legum, writing for Popular Information: As Popular Information reported last week, a significant number of Amazon's workforce -- particularly part-time employees and contract workers -- are not receiving paid sick time. In response to the pandemic, Amazon said it would provide two weeks of sick leave to "all Amazon employees diagnosed with COVID-19 or placed into quarantine." Kroger had a similar policy until Saturday when Kroger expanded its policy to cover workers with COVID-19 symptoms or who need to care for sick family members. Amazon, however, has held firm.

Amazon's large contract workforce, which delivers packages and performs other critical tasks, is in even worse shape. Amazon is not providing any sick leave at all for these workers, even if they test positive for COVID-19. Instead, these workers must apply to the "Amazon Relief Fund" and apply for a grant to cover their sick leave. The fund is "focused on supporting our U.S.-based Delivery Associates employed by Delivery Service Providers, our Amazon Flex Delivery Partners, and Associates working for Integrity Staffing, Adecco Staffing, and RES Staffing, and drivers and support team members of line haul partners under financial distress due to a COVID-19 diagnosis or quarantine." Amazon donated $25 million to the fund and is soliciting individual donations to add to the pot. It initially included an option to donate by text.
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Amazon, Owned by World's Richest Man, Soliciting Public Donations To Pay Workers' Sick Leave More

Amazon, Owned by World's Richest Man, Soliciting Public Donations To Pay Workers' Sick Leave

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  • What did you expect? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by fustakrakich ( 1673220 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @01:05PM (#59870626) Journal

    The reason these people are so rich is because they are so stingy.

    *Fuck the poor!*

    • Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by mmdurrant ( 638055 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @01:09PM (#59870654)

      The reason these people are so rich is because they are so stingy.

      *Fuck the poor!*

      The reason they're rich is they have no moral compunction with exploiting people.

      Full stop.

      • I think it's more that they are genuinely enthusiastic about exploiting people. I have absolutely no problem with businesses, or businesses profiting, but I strongly believe employees should be majority shareholders with preferred stock, with a limitation on the amount of shares an individual employee can own relative to all other employees(i.e. a single employee can not own more than 4x what the employee with the least shares owns) and be on the board. An employee then would then, and only then, sell their

  • how about a link that WORKS? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by TheGratefulNet ( 143330 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @01:08PM (#59870646)

    or, is that too much to ask?

    damn green site still too focued on MONETIZATION of their links.

    fucking assholes. I guess you really don't want that many people reading your site. aint no one got time to do web-workarounds when the fucking article is behind paywalls and locks.

    at least cut/paste relevant text if you are going to use junk sites for links.

    • Re:how about a link that WORKS? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by 110010001000 ( 697113 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @01:11PM (#59870670) Homepage Journal

      HEY STOP being mean to the shitheads here. They are Millenials and are trying really hard to bring you the latest news. This is a safe space.

    • or, is that too much to ask?

      damn green site still too focued on MONETIZATION of their links.

      fucking assholes. I guess you really don't want that many people reading your site. aint no one got time to do web-workarounds when the fucking article is behind paywalls and locks.

      at least cut/paste relevant text if you are going to use junk sites for links.

      Try clicking where it says "Let me read it first" under the type your email box. You're welcome.

  • Meanwhile in the rest of the first world... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Computershack ( 1143409 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @01:08PM (#59870652)
    Here in the EU/UK and effectively the rest of the first world Amazon have no choice but to pay sick pay, it's written into law. Even those on zero hours contracts with Amazon are entitled to sick pay.

    • Re:Meanwhile in the rest of the first world... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Nidi62 ( 1525137 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @01:23PM (#59870722)

      Here in the EU/UK and effectively the rest of the first world Amazon have no choice but to pay sick pay, it's written into law. Even those on zero hours contracts with Amazon are entitled to sick pay.

      These guys don't work for Amazon though. They work for Bob's Amazon Delivery Service, LLC or whatever. Of course, Bob signed up for the Amazon program that provided him vehicle leases (all in Amazon livery), handles dispatching and route management, the drivers have to wear Amazon branded clothes, and Amazon is his only client, but he is still technically an independent business. Gig and "contracting" jobs ftw!

    • With Coronavirus though it isn’t really all about sick pay, it’s partly about paying healthy people to stay home so they don’t get sick. I’m not sure the EU/UK law really would apply in that situation.

  • Well of course! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mark_reh ( 2015546 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @01:10PM (#59870660) Journal

    How do you think he became the world's richest man, by giving away money?

  • I hate it when celebs ask regular people for donations. He should be asking other celebs.

    Jeff could donate $100 for every American citizen (300,000,000) and that $3 Billion would hardly make a dent in his personal wealth.

    Meanwhile, there are regular people who can't even afford a $50 utility bill even before the pandemic shut things down.

  • Here's a radical idea... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mark_reh ( 2015546 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @01:15PM (#59870684) Journal

    If they're going to use taxpayer money to bail out corporations for COVID-19 related problems, it should be in proportion to the taxes they paid in the US.

    Didn't pay taxes here? Fuck you!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by DaHat ( 247651 )

      If they're going to use taxpayer money to bail out corporations for COVID-19 related problems, it should be in proportion to the taxes they paid in the US.If they're going to use taxpayer money to bail out corporations for COVID-19 related problems, it should be in proportion to the taxes they paid in the US.

      Should the same apply individuals as well? Should higher income earners (and thus usually bigger tax payers) be footing the bill for lower income earners who didn't/haven't paid as much in taxes?

      No?

      You

      • The real issue with elected officials is they take queues from lobbyist whether we like it or not. I've been down that road before, and they are heavily committed to following lobbyist climate over people to maintain that financial edge. Electing better people would be a more appropriate start though while can fix many things.. well.. we know what we can't fix.

      • EVery company is withholding payroll tax on behalf of the workers; this is tax that the workers owe, not the employers. So the question is are most companies paying real tax on their profits, or just hand waving that because they offer jobs that they should get a free ride?

        • EVery company is withholding payroll tax on behalf of the workers; this is tax that the workers owe, not the employers. So the question is are most companies paying real tax on their profits, or just hand waving that because they offer jobs that they should get a free ride?

          Someone needs to go back to school. For most of these taxes, they have to withhold tax from you, but they also have to pay an additional tax for you out of their pocket. For example, with FICA taxes your employer has to pay the same amount you pay in addition to the amount they withheld from your check.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by DaHat ( 247651 )

            Plus, even if you accept the argument that the employee taxes they pay are simply deducted from the larger cost they allocate per employee (salary, benefits, bonuses, etc), the same then gets to be applied to all taxes... in that a company will simply charge more for their products/service by factoring in the costs they are going to pay to produce, sell and distribute it (raw materials, manufacturing, advertising, delivery, service, taxes, etc).

      • Are you sure you understand what the OP is saying? Let me clarify

        If they're going to use taxpayer money to bail out corporations for COVID-19 related problems, it should be in proportion to the taxes they [the corporations] paid in the US.

        The effect would be that companies that transfer profits to corporate tax havens so they either pay no or very little U.S. taxes would get little or no bailout money.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by DaHat ( 247651 )

          I'm fully aware... just as I am fully aware of your skipped over the larger point I was making.

          Reducing ones tax liability via lawful methods is (in this country)... wait for it: legal.

          Here is the funny thing that most miss: The argument about how this or that (low US tax paying) corporation shouldn't receive the same benefits as those who pay more taxes... is also equally applicable to the topic of illegal immigration.

          All too often we hear people say that illegal aliens create a net benefit for the country

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by sjames ( 1099 )

            Reducing ones tax liability via lawful methods is (in this country)... wait for it: legal.

            So is not giving them a bailout.

    • Companies get the deals they get on taxes and other things because they have leverage. Don’t like paying to help them out? Fine. But what happens when some essential service fails because the company says “ok, we’re bankrupt, we quit. Everyone go home.”? Imagine if that happened with Fedex, or UPS, what it would do to the ability to ship food and medical supplies around the country to fight the virus. Amazon is at least close to being in the same position. What happens to web
      • Ahh, the too big to fail argument. Always the argument to use when you ignore the criticisms before the financial troubles, and just want money after you screw up. So, companies get deals, have leverage, and in return, get bailouts when they fail. If you don't see the problem here, that is the problem.
    • and unless you're willing to stop them from doing that by using the power of the government then you're either going to bail them out or everything will collapse and we'll have food riots.

      Money is power, and we have been loath to take money away from people, especially the rich.
    • The corporate "bailouts" in the $2 trillion Senate relief package are loans. Companies have to pay the money back once this crisis is over. If it works out like the Housing crisis bailouts, the government will actually make money from it due to interest on the loans.

      It's also worth pointing out that it's irrelevant where from the economy you extract your taxes. Taxes are simply shifting control of a fraction of the country's productivity from its citizens to the government. Since the only source of p

  • Hell No! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by RotateLeftByte ( 797477 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @01:16PM (#59870696)

    Hey Bezos!
      You have more than enough money to give your workers a decent package.
    Please go and read up what happened to another boss that did something totally crass, one Gerald Ratner.

    Oh wait... Please don't carry on and make everyone hate you even more than they do now,

    In the meantime, people, just stop using Amazon.

    • Dependent (child), Independant (Adolescent, Me), Interdependent(Adult, We).
      The USA culturally got stuck at Me.

      I got mine so F*&$ you while the rest of the west moved on to We.
      Ie mandatory paid holidays, sick pay, public healthcare, public prisons, etc etc.

  • Yeah, and Trump really, really doesn't like Bezos.
    https://www.businessinsider.co... [businessinsider.com]

  • Staying Rich (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jebrick ( 164096 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @01:22PM (#59870718)

    Rich people stay that way by not spending their money but spending others money.

  • Sounds like HR and legal manuvering (Score:5, Insightful)

    by puck01 ( 207782 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @01:27PM (#59870740)

    My guess is they want to have arrangements for the contract workers similar to their own full-time employees for the purposes of the COVID-19 pandemic. The problem Amazon has, is the more they treat contractors like full-time employees, the more likely it is a court (if they are every sued over this issue) will decide the contractors are in fact Amazon employees. Amazon doesn't want that to ever happen. To minimize that possibility, Amazon is providing the funds in the form of donation. To make this look like an authentic attempt to help the contractors without treating them like employees, they are also soliciting donations from the public.

    Now you could argue all day about the ethics of having all these contractor employees. I'm not speaking to that. I'm just pointing out what is probably the reason they are dealing with their contractors and COVID infection they way they are.

  • I wonder what it would actually cost Amazon to provide actual good benefits/a healthy work culture to their warehouse workers? It sounds like backbreaking work, where your every minute is carefully monitored.

    I would have to imagine it's a gigantic amount of money for them to not care at all what people think of how they treat these workers.

    • The compensation for the job is determined by supply and demand. Companies don't typically pull a number out of the air. Sometimes companies pay more (or offer better benefits) than the minimum they would otherwise have to. They don't do this out of the goodness of their hearts. They do it to increase the stability of their workforce. For a sufficiently large company, the value of that is measurable. I'm sure a company like Amazon knows how much value they would reap out of a general pay or benefit increase
      • The floor on compensation for work is definitely not determined by supply and demand. Slavery is illegal, then child labor, then unsafe working conditions, then minimum wage, and so on.

    • IT's been true for most of history - the more physical effort your job entails, the less you end up being paid. Hard work doesn't make you rich, and don't mistake sitting in front of a laptop or being on the phone all day as "hard work".

  • I just wish we'd come to terms with that fact. You can't solve a problem you don't believe exists.
    • I wouldn't have a problem with that if I had enough money to be part of that ruling class. Of _course_ those with money and power are going to try to fix the rules to help them keep their money and power!

  • Socialize the costs, privatize the profits.
    Fuck you.

  • Yeah, so? (Score:3)

    by Locke2005 ( 849178 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @01:36PM (#59870778)
    One of Amazon's 7 core values is "Be frugal." That's why Bezos is the world's richest man!

  • Better or worse than Wal*Mart? (Score:3)

    by Smidge204 ( 605297 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @01:37PM (#59870780) Journal

    I'm reminded of when Wal*Mart defended holding a food drive asking their own employees to donate food for their fellow workers;

    https://www.cnbc.com/2014/11/2... [cnbc.com]

    Because, you know, paying your employees enough to afford food would be an unbearable hardship I guess.
    =Smidge=

    • Walmart makes less than 3% net margin [macrotrends.net]. Cut that in half, and you'll see the company effectively collapse. Likewise, the store-side of Amazon runs on insanely thin margins [finbox.com]; it's buoyed by the AWS side of things. Cut that thin margin, and you'll see a company start to collapse. Places like Walmart and Amazon look big and imposing, but in reality they make less margin that the 7-11 down on the corner, or your local grocery store.

  • This right here is adequate reason to stop buying (Score:4, Insightful)

    by dgatwood ( 11270 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @01:42PM (#59870816) Homepage Journal

    Did I just read correctly that Amazon is only giving their employees two weeks of quarantine for people diagnosed with or quarantined as a result of possible exposure to COVID-19? Bezos needs to get hit with a huge injunction that shuts down Amazon outright until that policy is fixed. Here's the harsh reality:

    • Time from exposure to symptoms: up to 14 days (and a small percentage take longer).
    • Viral shedding after onset of symptoms: up to 24 days.

    Amazon is giving two weeks of paid leave, but in the worst case, for someone exposed who later develops symptoms, the minimum amount of paid leave that would not risk the health and safety of every single person who obtains products from their company is almost six weeks (38 days).

    And before you tell me that viruses don't get spread from packages, these people are handling plastic wrapped products and plastic air bags and putting them into boxes. COVID-19 can live for up to 72 hours on those surfaces, which is considerably less time than it takes for those packages to arrive in the hands of customers in many cases.

    So now let's calculate the worst-case cost to society from allowing Amazon to continue its normal operations. For the sake of minimizing the carnage, we will assume the best-case scenario, where that two-week clock starts on the first day of symptoms. And because there's no easy way to avoid it, we'll ignore all the people who get sick from any employees who are contagious prior to the onset of symptoms.

    A single Amazon worker packs on the order of 150 packages per hour. That's 1200 packages per day. Assuming two weeks really means 14 days, that means that a single Amazon employee with COVID-19 who does not take additional unpaid days will be back at work for 10 days while still potentially contagious. In the worst case, this means that a single worker could spread COVID-19 to up to 12,000 people. That makes so-called super spreaders like Typhoid Mary seem tame by comparison. If we assume a 3.4% average mortality rate, then a single Amazon worker coming back to work after only two weeks could potentially kill up to 408 people.

    Now I realize that this is the worst-case scenario, both because most people exposed to two-day-old viruses on plastic will not actually become infected and because the viral shedding declines over those 10 days, but even after you factor that in, you can probably safely assume multiple deaths per employee. Allowing only two weeks of paid leave after infection demonstrates gross indifference for human life, and IMO Bezos should be in jail for it.

  • He is a Ferengi. Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 211/ Employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Don't hesitate to step on them

  • connection (Score:4, Informative)

    by Tom ( 822 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @01:51PM (#59870870) Homepage Journal

    And the connection isn't obvious, is it?

    Amazon is very profitable, and Bezos is inanely rich, exactly because it fucks over its workers. Not despite, because.

  • Come'on, give the guy a break, he just lost

    $38 billion in divorce
    $14.1 billion in the stock market

    He only has something like $23.9 billion left, how can you expect him to help out sick employees who are making him rich?

    I mean, he could be left with a mere $23.9998 billion after paying sick leave?

    Heartless, insensitive, clods.

  • They need to be W2 workers and not fake 1099'ers

  • It's a free world afterall, right?

    Shop elsewhere.

  • Independent contractors are not employees. If you treat them like employees by giving them employment benefits like paid sick leave, the government will tell you they are employees and implement 1000s of rules and taxes.

    If someone doesn't want to be an employee, should they be forced by government to become an employee?

    Creating a fund and soliciting donations is a way to get them paid sick leave without changing their employment status. If Amazon paid the whole amount without asking for public contributio

  • Taxes (Score:3)

    by JBMcB ( 73720 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @02:26PM (#59870998)

    Isn't this one of the people asking to be taxed more? Well, you could just pay your employees more. That feeds more into taxes as well.

    Also, Bezos is the richest man in the world on paper. Most of his wealth is tied up in Amazon stock. The richest people in the world live in the Middle East and Africa. You don't know how much they are worth because they are the government, and don't release SEC filings. They own entire *countries* Bezos, in comparison, is on the very low end of this spectrum of wealth. They don't own private jets, they own airlines. They don't own fancy apartments in NYC, they own apartment buildings. They don't own yachts, they own navies.

  • Just let it go, Jeff. The world will be better off without Amazon. Don't pay anyone and let the whole thing collapse. Then sit back and enjoy your billions. You cheated all of your workers already, why stop now?

  • Politico reporter Jake Sherman tweeted that “House was in this morning at 10 a.m. and 42 seconds. Out at 10:02 and 37 seconds. No business of note. No resignations, etc. Back in tomorrow at 11 a.m.” He added, “To be abundantly, 100% clear: This means the House is not likely to vote on the Senate’s coronavirus bill today.”

  • ...that Amazon is just the only successful patent troll.

  • Not rich by accident (Score:3)

    by Dog-Cow ( 21281 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @02:48PM (#59871104)

    He's the world's richest man because he's a selfish asshole. That's basically a prerequisite.

  • Can Amazon afford to pay for worker leave? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @03:11PM (#59871196)
    The answer would appear to be "Yes".
    • Amazon has $55 billion in cash on hand, a 33% increase over 2018. [macrotrends.net]
    • Amazon has 750,000 employees. [wikipedia.org]
    • $55 billion / 750,000 = $73,333 per employee. About enough to give their entire workforce for a full year's paid leave.
    • If you instead use the $14 billion increase in cash on hand from 2018 to 2019, that works out to $18,667 per employee. More than enough to pay their entire workforce for several months of sick leave.

    What's the point of having cash on hand as a liquid emergency fund, if you don't actually use it in an emergency?

  • Because you can't it's call Co-Employment (Score:3)

    by GregMmm ( 5115215 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @03:34PM (#59871288)

    Amazon can not give contractors any sick leave. Heck they don't even pay them. That's why they are contractors. Those people work for the contracting company. If Amazon tried to give contractors sick leave they would be "co-employees" and would also be considered Amazon employees. If Amazon tells the contractor to give them sick leave, they are in breach of contract. They have no right to tell a contractor what to pay their employees, again co-employment.

    Stop bashing on Amazon for being bad. If the contract companies want to give the sick leave (which is usually not given) it's their business.

    Ask how well this went for Microsoft. They were sued for using contractors like employees, but they didn't get all the benefits. Got themselves sued

  • Contract workers aren't Amazon employees (Score:3)

    by kenh ( 9056 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @05:10PM (#59871750) Homepage Journal

    Amazon's large contract workforce, which delivers packages and performs other critical tasks, is in even worse shape. Amazon is not providing any sick leave at all for these workers, even if they test positive for COVID-19. Instead, these workers must apply to the "Amazon Relief Fund" and apply for a grant to cover their sick leave. The fund is "focused on supporting our U.S.-based Delivery Associates employed by Delivery Service Providers, our Amazon Flex Delivery Partners, and Associates working for Integrity Staffing, Adecco Staffing, and RES Staffing, and drivers and support team members of line haul partners under financial distress due to a COVID-19 diagnosis or quarantine." Amazon donated $25 million to the fund and is soliciting individual donations to add to the pot. It initially included an option to donate by text.

    So Amazon funded, to the tune of $25M, a fund to help employees of firms that Amazon contracts with.... the problem is what, exactly?

    Does one company being 'owned' (as much as any publicly-traded company can be 'owned' by one shareholder) by the richest man in the world obligate that company to provide benefits to people that don't work for them (Amazon)?

    Amazon pitched in $25M to provide benefits to other company employees, how much did Kroger pitch in to provide benefits for the contract truck drivers that stock the Kroger grocery store shelves?

    You are literally attacking Amazon for going above and beyond what any other company would do for another company's employees.

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