Deutsche Bank Chief Tells Germans: Work Longer and Harder (politico.eu) 176
Deutsche Bank CEO Christian Sewing this week urged Germans to work harder to help restore the country's economy. From a report: "Investors are already doubting our ability to reform, but especially our ability and our will to perform," Sewing said at the Handelsblatt banking summit in Frankfurt. "More growth in Germany will come only if we also change our attitude to work; if we are prepared to work differently, but overall to work more and harder." Sewing said that EU citizens work about 34 hours a week on average compared with about 28 hours in Germany.
He argued that Germany should embrace longer work-weeks. "We won't manage it with an average of 28 hours per week and a pension at 63," he said. The euro area's biggest economy has been digesting a slate of negative economic data recently. For starters, the German economy contracted in the second quarter of the year, while at the start of the month, the manufacturing purchasing managers index (PMI), a key indicator of industrial sentiment, flashed negative, marking over a year it's been in negative territory.
He argued that Germany should embrace longer work-weeks. "We won't manage it with an average of 28 hours per week and a pension at 63," he said. The euro area's biggest economy has been digesting a slate of negative economic data recently. For starters, the German economy contracted in the second quarter of the year, while at the start of the month, the manufacturing purchasing managers index (PMI), a key indicator of industrial sentiment, flashed negative, marking over a year it's been in negative territory.
Deutsche Bank Chief Tells Germans: Work Longer... (Score:5, Insightful)
No avocado toasts this time? (Score:3)
Won't somebody think of ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh God! Won't somebody think of the Billionaires and their Super Yachts?
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Oh God! Won't somebody think of the Billionaires and their Super Yachts?
Some countries already do, by means of a wealth tax.
Pay CEO less and workers more (Score:5, Insightful)
After decades of ratio CEO:worker pay ratio, it is getting obvious that CEOs do not deserve all that money.
Before asking anything from the workers, the CEO should start with slashing 95% of his pay.
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I meant after decades of ratio of CEO:worker pay *increase*.
Re:Pay CEO less and workers more (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Pay CEO less and workers more (Score:5, Informative)
Germany on average, maybe.
Deutsche Bank? Not at all. Someone else posted the numbers. I don't know the average salary within Deutsche Bank, but from the CEO salary it looks like he's not far away from 399-to-1
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Funny, as a life long US citizen living here, I've not found that to be the case...no problem with healthcare, education, etc.
I'd rather be the one who chooses what to do with MY money I earn, rather than the government.
CEO pay (Score:2)
Ratios (Score:5, Interesting)
I calculated what would happen if you took all the executive compensation from Ford - CEO, CFO, President, vice-presidents, executive directors, etc... and distributed it to all the salaried workers, they'd get a raise of about $200 a year. The average salaried worker at Ford made between $80,000 and $100,000 a year in total compensation, so that would have been an increase of about 0.2%.
The ratio of compensation is much lower for German companies, so the overall increase would probably be much lower.
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After decades of ratio CEO:worker pay ratio, it is getting obvious that CEOs do not deserve all that money.
Before asking anything from the workers, the CEO should start with slashing 95% of his pay.
When you mean CEO worker to pay ratio, you mean CEO of fortune 500 to worker of fortune 500.
That's comparing the salary of 500 CEOs to 50 million workers of these companies.
If all CEOs then there are plenty of "CEOs" who are make nothing or at most make as much as their worker (who is themselves).
If being CEO is so high paying, why doesn't everyone just become a CEO?
This is wrong (Score:2)
As automation increases, humans should do less work, not more. You can not fix the lack of jobs-problem with working more, you just take work hours from some people and give them to others.
Instead, you should change the taxing system to focus on taxing companies instead of workers. This is obviously hard as it can scare companies away or just force them to close the shop. This kind of system has multiple benefits, including cheaper workers, which increases productivity, gives things to do people, distribute
cap OT as automation goes up so it's not 60 hour w (Score:2)
cap OT as automation goes up so it's not 60 hour weeks.
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What's in it for the worker? (Score:5, Insightful)
Do they get a better life? Do they get more comfort and happiness? Or does this just enrich the lives of the elite as the economy grows and lets them buy a new yacht?
Folks in the US work a lot more and our economy is "good" but the workers are not the ones feeling the benefits of that good economy.
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In the context the statement was made, the worker gets a solvent pension.
This was a "the math doesn't work" statement.
normal human behavior (Score:3)
Put your money where your mouth is... (Score:5, Informative)
Christian Sewing
CEO - Deutsche Bank - Germany
Born: 1970, Germany
Annual: $9,837,410.00
Monthly: $819,784.17
Weekly: $189,180.96
Daily: $37,836.19
How much do you think the average Deutsche Bank employee is making? The ones he thinks should work longer and harder? Do you think their average annual salary is more or less than this guy makes in 2 days?
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So that CEO is getting 190K per week.
I am retired now, but in July I was getting $25 per hour. I would have had to work 7,567 hours per week to get that much.
Why do we need to please investors? (Score:3)
What the summary should read is that we should all become investors. $100/week invested will suffice for your retirement at 55 if you start at 25. Now if it's greed that is motivating you then nothing is ever enough.
My answer to this banker would be stop hoarding the wealth.
One step closer (Score:5, Insightful)
As the wealth gap keeps growing and the wealthy keep telling us we just need to work harder - like they're not the ones setting the rules making us poorer while they get richer - we get closer and closer to pitchfork / guillotine time.
The incredible gall it takes for someone who makes an annual minimum wage EVERY DAY telling the workers to buckle down is obscene. Nobody should make that much more than the lowest-paid full time worker.
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As the wealth gap keeps growing and the wealthy keep telling us we just need to work harder - like they're not the ones setting the rules making us poorer while they get richer - we get closer and closer to pitchfork / guillotine time.
I've been saying that for years now. The 0.01% will press this lemon until it all blows up, revolution, heads rolling, the whole nine yards. They don't have the common sense to tune it down so we can all live.
It's funny how it's always the haves (Score:2)
who advise the have-nots on how to run their lives.
I don't take advice from people who have never worked a normal average honest-to-goodness 9-to-5 like I do. If you want to be credible Herr Banker, go down to reception and work as a clerk in your bank for a few years, trying to balance your budget with the bills and the kids while trying to save up for some sort of pension when you retire and all that. Then I'll listen to you.
Failing that Herr Banker, kindly shove your advice where the sun doesn't shine.
How about (Score:3)
How about hire more people. What, are you afraid your stock options will loose value ?
If you hire and train more, you economy will grow much faster than forcing people to work longer hours.
Re: How about (Score:2)
That doesn't help pay for the welfare state. For that to work, there needs to be a certain baseline of worker participation and productivity. If you don't maintain that, then the state has to start dismantling welfare.
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How about hire more people. What, are you afraid your stock options will loose value ?
If you hire and train more, you economy will grow much faster than forcing people to work longer hours.
That's exactly what he wants to do... hire more people... Just not in Germany. The whole "people in this country just don't want to work" shtick is straight out of page 1 How to Offshore.
And.... (Score:2)
And by "we" I mean "you".
Stop using the bank's currency (Score:2)
shill or just stupid ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Can't decide. He's either the most dumb idiot in a leadership position or he thinks that everyone else is an idiot.
28h average work week? Nobody I know works that. No, the fast one he's trying to pull is most likely that he lumps full-time employees together with part-time employees and then makes an average that's nonsense. Take 10 full-time employees (40 hours/week) and 10 part-time employees (20 hours/week) and you get 30 hours "average" working time.
Germany has since the early 2000s massively expanded its minimum-wage labor market, a very political move supported by pretty much all the parties. Many minimum-wage jobs are part-time jobs.
What the fucker really wants to say is: "Hey dudes, last year I earned a million less than I wanted to, and couldn't afford my third yacht. Go and work harder so I can next year, will you?"
Those aren't mutually exclusive. (Score:2)
Many dumb idiots think they're smarter than everyone else - this seems to get truer the more money the dumb idiot has.
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>28h average work week?
No, that's just how many hours they work in the work week :)
I'm reminded of Pope John pausing after being asked how many people worked in the Vatican before replying, "about half of them."
Maybe Deutsche Bank should lose less "Peanuts" (Score:2)
Hire more people (Score:2)
If they need more hours covered, hire more.
Oh, you just want cheaper labor? Fuck off.
running out of workers (Score:2)
Re: running out of workers (Score:2)
That's the type of thing you have to do when you're experiencing demographic collapse. There's not enough work to go around, so you creat more part time work to ensure more people can find a job. Then, because the overall productivity hasn't changed, yet welfare continues to become more expensive, those jobs have to make less. It's pretty basic economics. There are other paths (like increased immigration), but Germany's current government cares more about blood and soul than they do the economy.
No funny? (Score:2)
Just conforming to the German stereotype? Or "too soon" for the joke?
I don't know ANY Germans working those hours (Score:2)
I don't know how this creep managed to come up with a 28 hour work week for Germans, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't bear scrutiny.
Based on Deutsche Bank's past performance in certain high-publicity cases, I'd be inclined to fall back on a well-tested adage to describe Christian Sewing: "Whether the water is salty or fresh, sh^t floats.
I agree (Score:2)
I agree: the other guy should work harder.
In the words of another psychopath (Score:2)
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The jobs are there for a reason. Some bean counter thinks the job is not worthless or they would have been cut.
But more importantly, this is not a counter argument. This pretty much agrees with the "work harder" sentiment
or maybe "work smarter" instead. If much of the work done is bullshit and doesn't contribute to GDP,
standard of living, or happiness of the person or country then the work needs to shift to jobs that do help
improve the person or country.
Re:was ist hier das Problem (Score:5, Insightful)
If much of the work done is bullshit and doesn't contribute to GDP, standard of living, or happiness of the person or country then the work needs to shift to jobs that do help improve the person or country.
That may have been true 50 years or so ago, though I doubt it.
We can list the jobs that improve people's lives. It's jobs like trash collection, nurses and doctors, manufacturing, child and elderly care, arts and enterainment, etc.
Oh look, none of these jobs are especially well paid. (note: most doctors aren't well paid and work crazy hours. A small fraction of doctors make obscene money, most make probably less than you and I. Same for artists. For every millionaire musician there are thousands who can barely pay their rent).
The real bullshit jobs - investment banking, fonds management, basically the whole "let's move money around from account to account without ever spending it on actually producing something" industry - won't go away because this is where assholes get rich.
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I was just talking with a friend of mine. She has a sister whose kids just moved out of the house. I asked if the sister is going to start dating, to which she replied "She has a hard time finding dates because she won't date blue-collar guys. Me? I have no problem dating them. I recently dated a garbage man who made 6 figures, and his house was so nice and full of amazing things he had found while doing his job."
Anecdotal, yes, but note that most of the folks you listed do get paid well (doctors, real
Re: was ist hier das Problem (Score:2)
My wife is a doctor and we live in Germany. The pay of a doctor here is somewhat above average yes, but at horrendous hours of work do the pay per hour is not actually that great
Which is why, like so many doctors here, she works in Switzerland. But just this morning we were discussing selling the house because the tax authorities are basically driving us to close to zero income!
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In the US, doctors don't heal patients. They are there to push pharmaceuticals for the pharmaceutical industry. If you cure someone you lose a customer. If you treat the symptoms then you have a customer for life.
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Re:was ist hier das Problem (Score:4, Informative)
Re:was ist hier das Problem (Score:4, Insightful)
Yup. Getting tired of this "ok boomer" whining. Last time I checked a massive debt was incurred from the covid payouts that benefited millenials and gen-z, among others. The debt is being incurred NOW.
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Maybe in your country the millennials made money from COVID payouts. In mine (Australia) they used it for subsistence living. The people who have benefited the most from COVID seem to be boomers, whose property values have (in my state at least) gone up 50-100%, putting home ownership out of reach.
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I was always told "you won't lose work to tech, you'll just get new jobs" so tech just replaces work with different work unless they are lying.
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I was always told "you won't lose work to tech, you'll just get new jobs" so tech just replaces work with different work unless they are lying.
Tech helps replace the "work smarter" jobs leaving the "work harder" ones for those replaced.
Re:was ist hier das Problem (Score:5, Insightful)
The govt $34+ trillion debt is increasing looking like it will never be paid off (the elephant in the room). Everyone is aware of it but nobody wants to do anything about it.
So close, but yet so far. Yes, govt debt is never going to be paid off. The "debt" is just glorified money printing. It taking the form of loans with interest attached only serves as a way to get it go down easy with the financial institutions. The amount of debt in practice only refers to the amount of money the govt has printed. Once a bond reaches maturity, it's paid off by more of the same, there is no real cost to the govt. The same goes for the interest involved, this too is paid off by the printing press. A government can never run out of it's own money, they can always ramp up the printing press.
As to the supposed inflation it causes, let me introduce you to the concept of fractional reserve banking. Turns out, 90+% of the money in circulation has actually been printed by the banks. When a bank gives out a loan, they create it out of thin air. As long as not too many people want to actually take this money out of the bank, there is no problem with it. To have some sanity check, banks used to have requirements for some reserve, which was traditionally 5-10%. These requirements were lifted in the West after the 2008 crisis. So if you want an elephant in the room, consider the banks' 90+% share in the inflation generated by money printing.
Not that most inflation has to be about money printing, either. There's input costs for the economy, too. The private sector has been completely financialized, that is, if you want to do something, you get a loan and pay interest. Energy costs have risen in Europe as a result of the war, and this has rippled through the whole economy. In the US one of the main functions of the Fed is managing wage inflation via keeping a safe distance from full employment. But in the recent years, the most important inflation creator has been plain old greed. Everyone and their dog has waken up to the fact that in reality, the price of one's product doesn't have to reflect one's costs at all, people will pay the price anyway if everyone just hikes it. And this is a real rising boat that lifts all, it's just that us regular folks are not in the boat.
To wrap this up, money is a public service tool the govt uses to make society possible. This tool has three sets of rules, one for the govt, one for the banks, and one for everyone else. If you ever hear someone talk about govt money as if it should follow household money logic, they either don't know what they are talking about, or they are pulling some wool on you. The real issues with everything money are about what the rules are, are they enforced, and for whose benefit does the game run. Obama got himself elected in the 2008 crisis promising that yes we can (help the people). Instead he threw the people under the bus and saved the banks instead. Do not read your politics into this example being Obama, any other guy of any other party would have done the same in the last 50 years of bipartisan neoliberal economics. There does not exist political an economical thinking in power in the US that would result in something different. But do take this as an example of for whose benefit the game does run, and maybe next time, you can be prepared when the going gets tough.
Crazy regulations (Score:2)
Re: Crazy regulations (Score:2)
Hey! EU Regulat is onSTXN86/b para 17 and 6 explicitly bans such talk!
Re: Crazy regulations (Score:2)
I agree. 3 examples.
1 Clicking on a âzcookiesâoe thing on EVERY SINGLE website I visit. WTF?
2 recently I wanted to buy an FPGA dev board made by some Croatian students . Croatia is in the EU. I could not buy it in the EU because of some regulatory garbage but I could import it from the USA at extra cost and getting bitched at by customs officials. The board is MADE in the EU
3 a camera lens that is made and built in Germany cannot give the f stop info back to the camera because the electronics are
Er Luegt! (Score:5, Informative)
Except that he is lying. The full time work week in Germany is 36 hours. The average worked is 34.7 hours. Both are below the EU average of 37 hours, but not by much.
https://www.destatis.de/EN/The... [destatis.de]
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Except that he is lying. The full time work week in Germany is 36 hours. The average worked is 34.7 hours. Both are below the EU average of 37 hours, but not by much.
https://www.destatis.de/EN/The... [destatis.de]
Yep.
This is straight from the "I want to move jobs overseas" playbook. 1. Claim that don't want to work, 2. Start hiring in an offshore location, 3. Claim the people in Elbonia are working harder, 4. Profit, 5. Lose customers next quarter but that doesn't matter as you've already got your bonus.
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Indeed. This ass is just a) posturing and b) simply wants cheaper workers without that doing anything for the German economy.
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But on the other hand: Do we really need to "grow the economy"? There are many things that would improve the quality of live without more little pieces of paper moving from people to people.
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You're overlooking the fact the preceding governments machine-gunned their own economy in the balls with Green energy and then the Ukrainian war. This was a long term project from multiple political parties.
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Let's go back to the 1500s because everyone thrived back then.
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"Let's get rid of all nuclear power" without any consideration on how it would impoverish people and how you'd run a modern industrial country on a few windmills and solar panels. Well they found out they had to revert to fossil fuels and buying power from France from their nuke plants. Good job green party and their buddies. Guess their goal is to revert Germany back to a preindustrial fantasy state.
What green energy? (Score:2)
The Ukraine war didn't help. Germany should've been arming the shit out of Ukraine but they didn't expect America to go insane an elect a hasbeen gameshow host with multiple credible rape allegations (including 1 with a 13 year old) so they can be forgiven for that. Don't get
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"Don't get me wrong, Obama should've been arming Ukraine too"
The US literally couped Ukraine in 2014 with the help of several neo-nazi groups. They locked people in the Odessa union building and burned them alive. You think the Obama administration should have done more? I don't want to even know what that would have looked like.
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Renewable power is a fantastic idea.
But Germany is burning more fossil fuels than the UK, Sweden and especially France, all of which have plenty of nuclear power
You say nuclear is kicking the can down the road... And burning fossil fuels isn't?
Germany didn't arm Ukraine because they pick policies that benefit then with geopolitical implications (like finding Putins was machine by buying cheap had) and hope someone else pays for the fallout.
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They just elected a right-wing government and the first thing a right-wing government does is start making you work harder for less money. It's all about the people at the top. The right wing literally got its start as the party of the monarchs. So work harder peasant.
As the saying goes, Arbeit macht frei.
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The right wing literally got its start as the party of the monarchs.
every right wing movement has been populist....
and "literally" got its start? whats that look like exactly?
"Literally" as in "Look at the National Assembly after the French Revolution. See where the Monarchists sat? Literally on the right."
Re: Not really a surprise (Score:2)
Which was definitely not populist. Nope, it was the progressive populists who started murdering everybody in France, not the conservatives.
Re:I wonder how many hours the bankers work. (Score:5, Insightful)
That's only 8 hours away from being only half of what a normal work week looks like in the US.
I know everyone wants to work less, but there comes a point you know.....
That's because his number's wrong (Score:5, Informative)
I'm generally not inclined to blindly trust the manager that walks around telling everyone that everything would be great if only everyone worked harder. Turns out this guy is low-balling that number by a lot.
https://www.statista.com/stati... [statista.com]
"In 2023, the hours worked by employees on the main job in Germany remained nearly unchanged at around 34.25 hours per week per person."
This is roughly in line with the US as well it turns out https://www.statista.com/stati... [statista.com] .
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The nobility obviously doesn't look at the work-week but counts the total number of hours worked per year and divides by the number of weeks per year, ignoring holidays and other "absences". The plebs need to make up for that lost time.
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You're probably right.
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Yeah, somewhat surprised he didn't try to argue that the real problem with the German economy is that the CEOs aren't paid enough, or are taxed too much. If he genuinely believes that this the biggest problem though, this could be an indication of a bigger issue. It often seems like top management loves simplistic metrics, like someone spending 30% longer in the office = 30% more and better work done = 30% higher profits. Super simple answers to very complex questions. If that's the deepest analysis of a pr
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At most, it is the average number of working hours among people with fulltime jobs in Germany.
But what it really really is, is this: "Arithmetic mean of hours usual worked of all employed persons"
https://www.destatis.de/EN/The... [destatis.de]
Which is a bit ambiguous. Does this include the 25-30 days per year that Germans get as vacation? Maybe, not sure.
Some will argue it's not "correct" to include, say, unemployed, part-time
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Sure I would. How is that in any way pertinent to this conversation though?
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Sigh... I was afraid that's where you were going...
Notice how I pointed out and provided data showing that the US has basically the same average as Germany. Now think for a moment, are US shops only open 4 days a week?
Turns out employees can be scheduled on different shifts! In theory a shop could have all its workers work one hour a week if they wanted to, they'd just have to hire a shit ton of employees to do it.
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Good lord, are you really this slow or are you just trolling me?
That doesnt happen in real life, the HR overhead would make it cost prohibitive. I was using it to help illustrate the fact that average hours worked for a country doesnt effect business hours at all.
I mean, what did you think was happening at shops run 7 days a week here in the US? Did you think all of the employees worked all 7 days and got paid massive amounts of OT while never getting any days off?
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its the other side of the less work coin unfortunately. you cant magic up the same output with less input. something has to give. not even sure how this applies to a lot of jobs to be honest - how exactly can a doctor take a day off?
Simple... you have more than one doctor.
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though im sure youd complain when the services and shops you use are only open 4 days a week
IFor many it's already along similar lines to that with the operating hours falling in line with when THEY are at work.
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> That's only 8 hours away from being only half of what a normal work week looks like in the US.
Ah yes, the American dream. And by that I mean the dream of spending all your time for the benefit of faceless corporate bosses or stock owners who are ready to throw you under the bus at the earliest convience when you're no longer productive enough or they want to boost their stock prices before selling it and letting the company go under.
What a dream!
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Either way....28 hours a work week...that's LOW by any standards...geez..I know everyone wants to work less, but there comes a point you know.....
where you realize 28 hours is only four hours short of what America is arguing for, which is a four-day workweek.
Working smarter, means exactly that. Prove productivity gains are worth the harm caused to the ones making the sacrifice.
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That is a very good point about productivity. Why should you work more hours if productivity has increased? Was the only reason to increase productivity to give more product to the boss for the same pay, or should it also include more time off for the same pay, with a marginal increase in output. If the company still makes as much or more, then let the workers enjoy the fruits of their labor. And, if the office goes dark one day a week, that's further savings for the company.
I did not see the statement
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Either way....28 hours a work week...that's LOW by any standards...geez.
That's only 8 hours away from being only half of what a normal work week looks like in the US.
I know everyone wants to work less, but there comes a point you know.....
You're not measuring the same thing. The normal workweek in Germany is 36 hours. The average hours worked by full time employees in Germany is 34.7hours which is on the low side compared to the EU average of 37 hours.
To get to 28 hours you need to look at the entire workforce, which includes part time/casual employees and shift workers. When you do that in America the numbers start to look much lower too.
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Addendum: That said it could be he is cherry picking a specific stat: A union agreement with IG Metall gives workers the option to drop to a 4 day workweek (28 hours) for time limited 2 years before going back to 35 hours. That was specifically aimed at new parents, but critically it was entirely optional and came with reduced pay.
It's 2024 (Score:2, Flamebait)
We're running out of useful work for people who don't have advanced educations to do. We can't all be HVAC Plumbers. Who's gonna pay us? Hours need to be cut to make way for spreading the work around more.
And ignoring all that we *should* be working less.
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That is a very good point about productivity. Why should you work more hours if productivity has increased? Was the only reason to increase productivity to give more product to the boss for the same pay, or should it also include more time off for the same pay, with a marginal increase in profit for the company. If the company still makes as much or more, then let the workers enjoy the fruits of their labor. And, if the office goes dark one day a week, that's further savings for the company.
I did not se
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After-hours schmoozing doesn't count.
Except that it does. A tremendous amount of business in banking is done by doing deals in social settings. Especially Investment Banking. Those guys play golf because that's where people with lots of money hang out, and you don't need an appointment if you run into them socially on the fairway. Say what you will about bankers, but in America, at least, they typically work long hours. "Bankers Hours" hasn't been a thing for a long long time. Investment bankers in particular are up early and home late. Wall S
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Funny how that got modded flamebait instead of drawing a response. It's almost like you can't argue documented statements anybody can search and read for themselves.
Now here's some flamebait (though still 100% true): I am so looking forward to the shame and humiliation MAGAs will feel when Trump loses the election. Even Fox is having trouble supporting him now. The rambling racist clown geriatric con artist just can't sell seats any longer.
lick harder (Score:2)
Trump thinks you're a stupid piece of shit, and so do i
Re: What do you expect from Bankers? (Score:2)