Verizon Offered To Install Marketers' Apps Directly On Subscribers' Phones (adage.com) 198
According to a report on AdAge, Verizon Wireless is trying to add more bloatware to Android phones by installing apps from other companies in exchange for payment. From the report: The wireless carrier has offered to install big brands' apps on its subscribers' home screens, potentially delivering millions of downloads, according to agency executives who have considered making such deals for their clients. But that reach would come at a cost: Verizon was seeking between $1 and $2 for each device affected, executives said. Verizon started courting advertisers with app installations late last year, pitching retail and finance brands among others, agency executives said.
It has only offered the installations on Android phones, because Google's software is open for carriers to customize. Apple controls its platform more tightly. The proposed deals with brands ensure that their apps download to only new devices when consumers activate the phones and their software for the first time.
I really do think (Score:3)
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Well, if they were truly talking about Android phones... I'll explain:
First, see, the first image shown in the article itself [adage.com]. Then note that it has the following caption: "Verizon has offered to install marketers' brands directly on new Android subscribers' phones, according to agency executives. Credit: Courtesy Verizon"
Don't you just love advertising execs?
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As long as carriers are customizing Android, they're going to find a way to fill it with bloatware and crapware that they can monetize. And if history is any judge, you may not be able to delete it. I'm sure most of us remember the early days of carrier preinstalled apps you can't remove, of AT&T forcing your search to Yahoo instead of Google, etc etc
Say what you will about Apple, the last story in this vein that we heard was about Apple discussing making fewer apps uninstallable, not more, or selling "
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Why should Google do that? It would only sell fewer phones that way.
It's really the responsibility of the consumer to get a an unlocked Android phone with no contract. The consumer has that option already.
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Customers do not demand locked phones. Most are too ignorant of what locked means to even care.
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I think ACs point was that Verizon is the manufacturer's customer, not the end user.
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Verizon doesn't lock most of their phones and the ones that they do lock, they will unlock for you without too much of a hassle.
http://www.verizon.com/about/c... [verizon.com]
Mos
If I can delete them. I don't care (Score:3)
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It's the PC industry all over again. Kickbacks for crapware, installed by default. Permanent product placement on your app screen and no option to remove it.
The last Lenovo laptop I bought wasn't able to play Skyrim because crapware kept getting in the way and stealing focus, locking up the GPU.
Now it's a race to see who is going to root the device first - the malvertisers with root certs or the users with jailbreaks.
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I never thought I would be saying this but the Microsoft Store -- both online and the brick stores -- is a great shopping experience. They sell computers from a number of brands without crapware and they are the same prices if not cheaper than the crapware version.
I bought a Dell 2-n-1 Inspiron from there recently. I never thought I would be able to buy a clean Dell consumer computer.
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Microsoft Store does not seem to sell any laptops that run Windows 7.
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https://support.microsoft.com/... [microsoft.com]
That would be because Windows 7 has been out of mainstream support (when they actively sell it) for more than a year.
And whose fault is that? Microsoft's. Let's put the blame where it lies. They want to (not so) slowly move people to OS-as-a-service. Older OSes don't suddenly stop working because they're out of mainstream support. Look at how many people are still running XP without a problem.
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I don't know if I would say running XP isn't a problem. Any security updates aren't being backported except extreme situations, so it is just a matter of time before XP will have an unpatched exploit in the wild.
Do you expect MS to support old OSes forever so that people can fail to move up to the current?
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If MS won't, they should lose the copyright and be forced to to release the Source Code.
If they won't protect the product with security patches, then they should lose all copyright protection.
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Did you request the same thing happen to Mac OS 9?
Should the copyright for Linux 4.6 (and below) be taken away too?
https://tech.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
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If they aren't supported anymore, then yes
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If MS won't, they should lose the copyright and be forced to to release the Source Code.
I'm sure you think you're cute saying that, but it shows you don't know what you're talking about...
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Found the M$ Shill....
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Found the M$ Shill....
Anyone who types M$ is a moron who is unable to form a rational thought...
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Your car and your software are under very different parts of the law...
That being said, in general I agree with you, I think EULAs have more power than they should...
However there is a difference between asking for activation to be removed and asking for source code. It is likely that a lot of source in Windows doesn't actually belong to MS, they have licenced it from other people and they don't have permission to release it. In addition, lots of code is shared between various versions of Windows, releasi
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I would say that I did not buy a recurring license, so why should I not have the right to continue to enjoy the benefits of the license I paid for, same as I can use a book or any other copyrighted material for as long as I want once I've paid my license.
They want to use copyright law, no problem. Make them choke on it. I have physical possession of those copyrighted bits, I paid for them, and to deprive me of using them is piracy. :-)
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Microsoft had originally said, when their product activation schemes became too aggressive, that they would release the activation keys of Windows XP when it went out of support. They lied (what else is new?)
You can still use XP for playing all your old games and applications off-line. The games don't care that the OS is out of support, same as the OS doesn't suddenly develop bit rot. If it develops the clap, you do the same as when it was supported - wipe and reinstall.
It's the same story for any OS, fro
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I always understood they said if they wanted to shutdown the activation servers, they would "release the keys", not that that would happen automatically at the end of the support period. As an example, Microsoft released a "sunset" edition of Money plus [microsoft.com] when they wanted to shutdown the activation servers for it.
Re:If I can delete them. I don't care (Score:4, Interesting)
They want to (not so) slowly move people to OS-as-a-service.
It's not even that.
Microsoft has discontinued OS sales and then support for years. Much longer than the OS-as-a-service concept has been on their radar.
With proprietary for-profit software, you will inevitably reach the point where new sales of the software will not cover the cost to maintain the software. And if you're a business, that means it's time to consider killing the product.
While users and developers both require a stable platform to do their work, the very stability of that platform eliminates the need for new purchases. Just reassign that perpetual license when the hardware dies and carry on. Meanwhile, the developer must support new hardware and new standards, and he must also fix any bugs or exploits.
Going OS-as-a-service and subsidizing the annual license fee to $0 through the use of analytic and advertising revenue... well, that's one solution. I don't like it, but if people are unwilling to pay for support one way then they will pay another. Microsoft has to make money, and users are generally not interested in paying cash for operating systems.
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Re:If I can delete them. I don't care (Score:4, Funny)
Microsoft Store doesn't seem to sell any laptops that run those either.
Re:If I can delete them. I don't care (Score:4, Informative)
If on the other hand I can't, the phone's going to get unlocked and rooted. All carriers should take note - we're getting closer to a discontinuity in how much we're willing to be abused.
So what happens when Verizon pushes out a malware infested app that roots your device?
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Verizon figures it out weeks later, rolls out a fix, someone files a class action, Verizon settles for $20 million, $19 million of which goes to lawyers, you get a card in the mail telling you to go to dlksjOIjhdhsf893lk3jhflskhfsdkjh384982.com between the hours of 4 and 5 AM on the second tuesday after the winter solstice to register for your class action payout, and 6 months after that you get a check for $0.16
Class action (Score:3)
The purpose of a class action is not to recompense the victims, but to sting the offender a large sum of money so they don't do it again.
It's only worthwhile from the lawyers' perspective if they get paid.
So the choice is to allow the laywers to be paid, or to allow companies to get away with micro bill padding and other nasty activity that isn't worth an individual lawsuit.
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Yes. Yes, they are. So is cash; haven't you heard?
Re:If I can delete them. I don't care (Score:4, Informative)
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You know what costs not a nickel extra, though? Buying unlocked phones directly from manufacturers and bringing your own device. As a bonus, it also requires no technical knowledge.
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2) some jurisdictions require that the phone be unlocked after you've paid it off if it was subsidized.
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One small problem I can see (well, three...)
First, most folks can't even spell "Cyanogen", let alone root/mod their phones.
Second, of those that can, most will not think it worth the effort, for fear of bricking their pricey subsidized phones. Easier/faster to disable the app in question and remove all references/shortcuts to it outside of the App Manager.
Third, telcos can retaliate. A more extreme example would be adding language to their little contracts that say something like "For security purposes, if
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At which point any judge that knows what the magnusson moss warranty act is would throw out that whole section of the contract. Also gotcha-clauses like that are rarely enforceable because they lack adequate consideration and there's no meeting of the minds.
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Magnusson-Moss act would take a huge dump right on top of this.
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we're getting closer to a discontinuity in how much we're willing to be abused.
Hehehe, the plan is to do it slowly so the bar raises as slowly without anybody noticing. It has been going on for ever.
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we're getting closer to a discontinuity in how much we're willing to be abused.
Said the frogs as the water got warmer.
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You already have access to as many unique email addresses as you want. Any character in the sender name after a + is ignored, as are any dots.
So, you can use joeblow@example.com, joe.blow@ example.com, joe.blow+sendername@example.com. Someone sends you an email with the +sendername, you know who the culprit is who sold your email address.
Dont use a Verizon phone (Score:2)
I use a carrier unlocked Nexus on my Verizon account... No bloat there, none allowed.
Looked at getting a Samsung S7 to replace my Samsung S6 when I was looking but the Verizon price was ridiculous and the Nexus was easier to deal with.
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Easier yet - buy an unlocked phone of whatever, then tie it to Net10, Tracfone, or whatever... using Verizon's network anyway.
My LG G3 cost me $200 off of Amazon, and does everything I want it to. It took all of an hour to plug it in, set up a $35/mo semi-unlimited plan, and it happily does tx/rx over Verizon's network. I save enough money on average to buy two unlocked slightly-behind-the-times phones a year if I so desired, and if I did that I would still be ahead of the typical Subsidy Schmuck paying Ver
Golden opportunity (Score:2)
Does Verizon test whether any of these apps are actually a rootkit masquerading as an app? If not, I'd say that's pretty cheap for guaranteed delivery to people who don't know how their phone SHOULD be behaving.
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Does Verizon test whether any of these apps are actually a rootkit masquerading as an app?
The answer is obvious: no
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Verizon get $5 instead of $2 per install if it is a rootkit.
This is outrage? (Score:2)
Did we really think companies wouldn't charge money for advertising?
How many apps? (Score:4, Insightful)
(Assuming of course that after paying the Danegeld the amortized cost would still be less than switching to a different phone on a different provider.)
Verizon taking pages from Microsoft playbook (Score:2)
Re: Verizon taking pages from Microsoft playbook (Score:2)
Why do you think Verizon bought aol and yahoo? They wanted to learn the best ways to abuse your customers.
Next up Verizon buys Comcast for customer service specialists
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OMFG STFU you idiot. It's got a shitty, but working, music player built in and stereo bluetooth compatibility, which is strange for a $50 phone. The handful of extra megs of memory used up by shitty wallpapers I don't want and shitty ringtones I don't want could be an extra song or two I might want to hear if I'm desperate, or a few extra photos stored from it's shitty camera.
Carrier Phones - RIP (Score:5, Informative)
There doesn't appear to be much of a reason to buy a carrier-bound phone anymore, especially Android.
Basically, if you want an Android phone that will remain supported, you almost have to go non-carrier Nexus
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Is the BYOD price on any carrier low enough for that to be true?
Around here you only come out ahead if you can find a new non-carrier phone for less than $240 which seems highly unlikley.
Depends on carrier but yes (Score:2)
T-Mobile doesn't subsidize phones. You pay the full price. You can pay it up front or over 24 months (interest free) but it is full retail. So it makes no difference if you get it from them or someone else.
Also means their plans tend to be cheaper than competing plans, since there's no subsidy rolled in to the monthly charge.
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That would be refreshing, here we get a discount for BYOD, but it's not that much. They have 3 tiers of phones you can subsidize, basic, smartphones, premium smartphones.
Start with the BYOD price, add $5/mo for the basic phones, $10/mo for the smartphones, and $15/mo for the premium smartphones. Over the 2 year contract period, those prices don't cover the cost of buying one of those devices. This tells me that even if you BYOD you're still paying roughly half the subsidy cost, meaning it's still cheaper to
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symptoms, symptoms (Score:5, Interesting)
They view every interaction as a way to milk out profit in the short term, regardless of how much of the burden and dissatisfaction it shifts onto the consumer.
Any wonder, then, that whenever the customer has a chance to dump them and shift to a provider/medium/hardware solution that works better and is considerate of the customer's desires, they do?
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They view every interaction as a way to milk out profit in the short term, regardless of how much of the burden and dissatisfaction it shifts onto the consumer.
This is their fiduciary duty to shareholders. This is how corporate capitalism works, by design.
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They have a duty to build a successful company. They can totally say "goodwill is a better investment than $2 million dollars from an ad company."
What a crock of shit the "shareholders" idea is (Score:4, Informative)
This is their fiduciary duty to shareholders.
This is utterly wrong. They have a duty to try and keep the company healthy. Angering customers who then leave is doing the opposite.
What you and all of the other ignorant people that parrot your "fiduciary duty" crap fail to realize is that money is only one metric of a companies success, and even that is measured in the long term. Otherwise I could literally offer them one dollar to have all sales people dress like rabbits and they would be forced to do so because $1 is greater than $0.
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Boy, do you have it right on "milk out profit in the short term." The CEO needs his retirement parachute, before it goes up in flames!
Coverage changes and now this (Score:2)
Verizon coverage where I live used to be amazing. But this last year something changed and its been degrading terribly. I was going to try an Android phone again next year but between this news and the worsening coverage I may just end up going to T-Mobile. At least I get wifi calling with them.
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I'd suggest Project Fi if you're considering a Nexus phone, depending on your situation.
Your voice and data comes over whatever is the best connection among T-Mobile, Sprint, US Cellular, and Fi hotspots at any given location.
+ Coverage is better than any individual carrier.
+ Data speeds will be very good almost everywhere.
+ Voice, text, and data pricing are extremely competitive.
+ Wifi calling is automatic and preferred when available.
- No group plans
- No equivalent to T-Mobile's Binge On
- Only available f
The dire contrast between how... (Score:2)
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I think that's the right answer for a developer. "Here's my view of what I think things should look like. Don't like it, go elsewhere." It's a main reason why OS X on the desktop had been more successful than Linux on the desktop.
Most people won't take the time to configure their UI. And most superusers use enough different machines that it has to be similar to the standard view anyway. And smaller developers will always have ot make a view that works well for people using the defaults.
Let's go the ot
grass "roots" effort to stop this (Score:2)
I think if consumers were aware they had more options, this wouldn't happen. I would like to see some consumer friendly web sites that let people know what options are available for each model phone and carrier in terms of controlling apps and bloat. I find it very frustrating Verizon has a bunch of stuff bundled on my phone that I can't un-install, but I'm not sure what my options are if I want to take matters into my own hands?
Apple Fanboy Here (Score:3)
Re:Apple Fanboy Here (Score:5, Informative)
Fine because I just buy a Google Nexus Phone and can do whatever the hell I want with it? Unlocked boot-loader, root access, because its my own piece of hardware.
Dear Android developers (Score:2)
Fuck these assholes.
Repeat of old Bell Co tactic (Score:3)
Then when customers started complaining about telemarketers, the Bell Companies offered to sell them tools to block them. They never told the customers about the sale of their personal data.
The Bell Companies pocketed money twice - from the marketers, then from the customers.
I'm seeing a similar pattern from Verizon. They sell direct install apps to marketers, then customers complain and Verizon offers to sell tools to block those apps.
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As of 2016, how easy is it for someone who's not super technical to buy an Android phone without carrier branding that works well on Verizon or Sprint? Even if hardcore users of Slashdot have a lot of time to learn to do their own research, our non-technical friends and family may not.
For those playing at home and unaware of the differences between the U.S. phone market and that of the rest of the world: Unlike T-Mobile and AT&T, which use GSM, Verizon and Sprint use CDMA2000. Unlike GSM and its success
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They have no leverage because the law was changed to force them to let you use any unlocked phone on the network. So the answer is you show up with a CDMA phone and say "active this."
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Then the question becomes one of which CDMA phones support Verizon's and Sprint's frequency bands. Back in the day, many GSM/UMTS phones were stuck on 2G when used on T-Mobile because they didn't support the AWS band.
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Since Verizon is the dominant CDMA carrier in the US, pretty much all CDMA phones work with Verizon. You would have to try very hard to find a model built for the US that doesn't. Sprint would be the big problem.
And the T-Mobile issues aren't completely gone. They are rolling out very extensive coverage on LTE band 12 using the spectrum they bought a few years ago. But phones older than a year or two often don't support band 12.
E.g., the Nexus 6 works everywhere on T-Mobile, but the iPhone 5C does not.
That
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One word: Nexus.. Unlocked and no bloatware.. (well, other than the *extra* shit that Google includes that many don't use/want.. All the "Google Play Music/Movies/Games apps that I can't seem to get rid of, even though my Nexus 4 is rooted...) All I want is Gmail, and the Google Play basic store app... Fuck the rest.. Dunno what they did to keep that other crap on even when I'm rooted and use one of the removal apps.... My Nexus 4 may be a bit old, but its on Android 5.1.1 and works perfectly.. Don't need
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As of 2016, how easy is it for someone who's not super technical to buy an Android phone without carrier branding that works well on Verizon or Sprint? Even if hardcore users of Slashdot have a lot of time to learn to do their own research, our non-technical friends and family may not.
As of March 2016, I brought a Nexus 6p to the Verizon company store and told them to transfer my phone number to it. They knew to look up the ESN/IMEI, poke it into a Verizon support website (on their own support tablet) to
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Some people who live in areas without good coverage from T-Mobile, considered the most customer-friendly U.S. carrier, may choose Verizon or Sprint in order to avoid AT&T, the U.S. carrier with the worst customer service.
I fall into this category. I do not live in the boonies... I live INSIDE the LA City Limits... and I tried T-Mobile and got no signal. I would drop Verizon like a rock if I could get T-Mobile coverage at my house.
You've got options with t-Mobile (Score:2)
If you get decent coverage everywhere but your house and you have internet access at home try one of these:
- wi-fi calling (t-mobile really pushes this)
- micro-cell (or as t-mobile calls it CellSpot)
Getting off the Verizon train really is possible for most people.
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Which phone did you use?
T-Mobile is deploying all their new 4G towers on LTE band 12, and support for band 12 was pretty much nonexistent in devices prior to 2014/2015. Even now, budget handsets often lack it.
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It was an older 3G phone (I think -- it's been a while), and then I got a SIM card for an assistive voice device, which would never get more than 1 bar (if I was lucky).
How can I try it out without buying one?
Also if you're familiar with the area, I'm in the west San Fernando Valley, if it helps.
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how easy is it for someone who's not super technical to buy an Android phone without carrier branding that works well on Verizon or Sprint?
Very. Just go to the Android Play store, and order a Google Nexus phone. There are other phones that are also available(OnePlus3 for example),depending on which carrier you use, but Sprint/Verizon are tied to the older CDMA technology in part, so those certain phones may not have all features available on those networks. So, while you will have LTE connection, fallback to CDMA may not exist.
Once those older technologies are retired out of service, it will be less problematic.
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Nexus Yes. Other non-carrier based phones like OnePlus 3 ... not so much.
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Its easy. Just don't buy your phone from the carrier.
And another Rand fan boy is heard from...
Sorry, boy, but your free market idealism fails, for the same reason all free market idealism fails - consumers are not able to make intelligent decisions. No, that is not the same as saying consumers are not intelligent. The mythical free market requires that consumers are free to choose the goods and services they need from a competitive marketplace. Most consumers of smartphones lack the technical expertise to do as you suggest, buying a phone from some source o
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I think you're wrong about why it fails, it's not because the customers are uneducated, it's because the cellular marketplace isn't really a "competitive market".
Now there's a good argument to be made that it can't be a truly competitive market as there are limited numbers of frequencies available, and it's therefore more of a natural monopoly, but the point still stands. If the market isn't free, than the free market can't solve any problems.
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If all they get is $1 or 2 per installed crapware I'd be willing to pay an extra few bucks to avoid the hassle of uninstalling the junk.
However, if they're planning on installing dozens of "apps" I might not be interested in the carrier.
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Verizon bloatware will be just as unremoveable (unless you root the phone) as Apple's bloatware.
Funny, I don't see apps for Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Macy's, etc pre-installed on my iToys. (I suppose those would be 3 of the "Big Brands" Verizon was about?
I do see things like the a stock ticker, Watch app, and a few other things I can't remove, so I've made a folder called "useless," put those things in there, and away we go. Hell, I use the stock ticker myself to research the health of say, a prospective new employer.
What Verizon wants to do is put "Big brand" apps in your phone. Which Apple hasn't done, and I hope they don't.
But hey -- starting with iOS 10 you will be able to remove the useless built-in apps you don't want!
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Err....what Apple bloatware?
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My "Trash" collection includes:
Calculator Calendar Wallet Game Center (I HATE THAT POS!)
Compass Notes Maps iTunes Store
Mail FaceTime Tips Podcasts
Contacts Videos Music Just Friends
Health Watch News Reminders
I have MUCH better non-Apple apps for all of the above.
If you don't want it and don't want to use it, it's bloatware.
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Not to disagree, but contacts? What do you use instead?
I use a Nexus, so having never used an iPhone, this didn't make sense to me.
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Here's my list of replacements, starting with the one you asked about.
Contacts is replaced by Playa Apps' A2Z Contacts and Synctastic
Calendar is replaced by Readdle's Calendars and Calendars5
Calculator is replaced by Creative Creek's MathU RPN Calculator (emulates an HP RPN)
Notes are stored either in KeePass Touch, Google Keep, and gTasks Pro, depending on what they're for.
Maps are replaced by Google Map
Mail is replaced by Google's Inbox(Personal) and Readdle's Spark(Work)
Videos, Music, Podcasts are replac
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Starting with IOS 10 you will be able to delete Apple apps.
https://support.apple.com/en-u... [apple.com]
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Game center is completely removed from iOS 10 altogether. http://toucharcade.com/2016/06... [toucharcade.com]
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You can go to google.com and search from there if you wish. A little annoying but that's what I do in corpo environment or on locked devices.
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Why does carrier have so much control over a phone?
Because US consumers never demanded unlocked phones that can be obtained from third parties and configured to a network with portable SIMs.
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I think you missed the fact that this is a big company with money and lawyers, laws only apply to little people.