Drinking Any Amount of Alcohol Causes Damage To the Brain, Study Finds (cnn.com) 234
There is no such thing as a "safe" level of drinking, with increased consumption of alcohol associated with poorer brain health, according to a new study. CNN reports: In an observational study, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, researchers from the University of Oxford studied the relationship between the self-reported alcohol intake of some 25,000 people in the UK, and their brain scans. The researchers noted that drinking had an effect on the brain's gray matter -- regions in the brain that make up "important bits where information is processed," according to lead author Anya Topiwala, a senior clinical researcher at Oxford. "The more people drank, the less the volume of their gray matter," Topiwala said via email. "Brain volume reduces with age and more severely with dementia. Smaller brain volume also predicts worse performance on memory testing," she explained. "Whilst alcohol only made a small contribution to this (0.8%), it was a greater contribution than other 'modifiable' risk factors," she said, explaining that modifiable risk factors are "ones you can do something about, in contrast to aging."
The team also investigated whether certain drinking patterns, beverage types and other health conditions made a difference to the impact of alcohol on brain health. They found that there was no "safe" level of drinking -- meaning that consuming any amount of alcohol was worse than not drinking it. They also found no evidence that the type of drink -- such as wine, spirits or beer -- affected the harm done to the brain. However, certain characteristics, such as high blood pressure, obesity or binge-drinking, could put people at higher risk, researchers added.
The team also investigated whether certain drinking patterns, beverage types and other health conditions made a difference to the impact of alcohol on brain health. They found that there was no "safe" level of drinking -- meaning that consuming any amount of alcohol was worse than not drinking it. They also found no evidence that the type of drink -- such as wine, spirits or beer -- affected the harm done to the brain. However, certain characteristics, such as high blood pressure, obesity or binge-drinking, could put people at higher risk, researchers added.
One martini is not enough (Score:4, Insightful)
Two martinis is too much
Three martinis is not enough
Lord help us if they revive the temperance movement
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Re: One martini is not enough (Score:2)
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In the end distilleries contributed very little to the overall production of hand sanitizer and the FDA thanked them by slapping them with huge taxes. It's not clear how many cases of coronavirus were prevented with hand sanitizer, if any. Generally, soap and water is as effective and typically applied more thoroughly. Ultimately hand sanitizer is a convenience and we as a society don't really need it. It may be a very nice thing to have for the receptionist of a medical or dental office, but it isn't a med
Re: The new study (Score:5, Funny)
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Two martinis is too much
Three martinis is not enough
Lord help us if they revive the temperance movement
This reminds me of my favorite quotes, this one by Dorothy Parker.
"I like to have a martini, two at the very most. After three I'm under the table, after four I'm under my host. "
So? (Score:5, Funny)
I'll drink to that!
Re:So? (Score:5, Funny)
Give up drinking to prevent 0.8% of my inevitable cognitive decline? No thanks!
But then someone will say, "You don't need alcohol to have a good time".
To which, my reply is, "You don't need shoes to run a marathon but it fuckin helps".
Re:So? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So? (Score:4, Informative)
To which, my reply is, "You don't need shoes to run a marathon but it fuckin helps".
That's not a great example.
The trend in marathons is toward thinner and lighter shoes, and people are increasingly experimenting with running barefoot. Some world class marathoners -- and even some ultrathoners -- run barefoot.
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'ER' yes numb nut, why else would our liver evolve to get rid of it, https://www.mydr.com.au/gastro... [mydr.com.au]. Basically yes alchohol is bad for you which is why your liver specifically evolved the ability to break it down and get rid of it. Plenty of critters eat over ripe fruit and suffer the consequences
Re: So? (Score:2)
causation vs correlation (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:causation vs correlation (Score:4, Funny)
Not done me no harm (Score:5, Funny)
I does drink lots and lots but I can think real good.
Re:causation vs correlation (Score:5, Funny)
Por que no los dos?
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Damn it! I just used my last mod point and you made me literally laugh out loud.
Re: causation vs correlation (Score:4, Interesting)
no one is going to care (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if they prove with numerous RCT studies that even a single drop of alcohol causes permanent reduction in grey matter no one is going to care. People are going to continue to drink, smoke, and enjoy their vices. It might make life shorter, but it can make that shorter life more enjoyable.
Re:no one is going to care (Score:4, Insightful)
I assure you smoking does not make life more enjoyable. Emphysema feels like you are constantly drowning all the time. Switch to vape today.
Re:no one is going to care (Score:5, Informative)
Yup, I Second that 100%
After 100s of unsuccessful attempts over a decade i managed to get off cigarettes by starting on Vape + Nic gum. Off cigs for over 5 years now. Everything is better. Can't believe how (and why) i was hooked to cigs half my life!
Here's some random musings in case it helps someone kick the habit (ask if you need to know anything else):
Doc had to use nic patches for 1-2 weeks to get me shifted over. They're good to start off since they work in the background and you pretty much forget to smoke for hours and if you use the nic gum + vape a little during that time then its all good.
Now even when I try i just can't go back to cigs / analogs. (had tried while visiting some cities that don't allow vapes to be sold. And once or twice when vape got confiscated at airports. Smell and taste of cigs is unbelievably shitty once you are no longer addicted to them)
Strangely, either of them alone dont do it for me - even if i vape high strength eliquid or nic salt eliquid.I still need the nic gum. And nic gum alone does give the kick but the physical act of blowing smoke/vapor seems to be essential somehow or fools me into believing I am doing some hardcore thinking and not just sitting there daydreaming.
Also, there's the small matter that I am now addicted to nicotine gum & vaping ! !
Way less harmful than smoking analogs/cigs though. But still some issues to be careful about are:-
Since big pharma is now into this nicotine delivery / nicotine replacement therapy NRT business, they have been making huge 'improvements' to the nic gums in last few years.
They have gone full big tobacco on it where by everything is within the regulatory limits when testing and way above those limits when actually used.
Like the cig cos would treat the paper, filter & tobacco with arcane but justifiable chems & processes so that few addictive things like MAO etc are produced during actual use/combustion.
Vapes are not really regulated but either banned or allowed in most places so users end up doing harmful shitty stuff on their own. Like use eliquids with high nicotine strength meant for low temperature vapes (like juul or some nic salts) in high temperature vapes to get stronger kick. Vapes dont really get the nicotine past the lung (molecule size too big unlike when its actually burnt into smoke) but only through mucosal absorption - so everyone ends up experimenting i guess.
Most of my smoker friends just choke on trying my vape, but it feels nice n smooth to me so I am assuming shit is happening with whatever combination i like.
Some problems reported in media like "popcorn lung" from vapes seem to be just hype IMHO, as I haven't found even moderately good research on it nor have seen any one with those problems except rare people using completely batshit crazy things in their vape - just because its easy to try. (I only tried vodka & grass many years back - doesn't work. There are dry vape thingies available for such things nowadays)
Vapes have improved tremendously from 5 years back when they were a barely working contraption. Practical & useful enough that some big Tobacco cos have taken over a few good vape manufacturers and will probably transition to some version of vapes soon and get regulatory approvals etc which will mostly end up with vapes being as bad a cigs in 5-10 years, i guess.
Regardless, If you are still smoking in 2021 you need to STOP or at least shift to something less fatal.
There's no doubt you will have to stop some day soon - you can decide if you wanna do it after a Heart attack or Stroke or before.
Vape + nic gum is pretty much a better kick TBH and way less harmful, plus you tend to need it less & less over the years unlike cigs which just go up exponentially.
Re: no one is going to care (Score:5, Informative)
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I literally met my wife after bumming a smoke from her friend, in a bar, while I drank beer. I wasn't a "smoker" by any stretch of the imagination, but rarely did smoke. Been with her a quarter century and have a kid too. So I suppose that it depends on what you mean by smoking making life more enjoyable. In the total context, hell yeah.
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I got started smoking by dating a smoker. I don't know if she still smokes, but it took me over a decade to quit. On balance I'd have been better off without.
Re: no one is going to care (Score:2)
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It has to be balanced against other things. The fun you can have, but also help coping with stress (in moderation) and possible benefits for your heart.
Re: no one is going to care (Score:3)
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Even if they prove with numerous RCT studies that even a single drop of alcohol causes permanent reduction in grey matter no one is going to care. People are going to continue to drink, smoke, and enjoy their vices. It might make life shorter, but it can make that shorter life more enjoyable.
Smoking doesn't make life more enjoyable on average - I know, I smoked. I don't mind drinking, but we can't take this "oh well, yolo" attitude either. For that matter, we could just zombie-fuck ourselves with crystal meth for the high because it does make life enjoyable (from the moment of the high.)
We smoke and drink as ways to cope with one thing or another, not to make life enjoyable. There's a clear distinction. And nothing wrong with coping, but it is absolutely not right to equate coping with making
related, if unscientific observation: (Score:2)
Alcohol fucks with your memory even more than weed. I was somewhat surprised to discover that. Not that I was ever the type who dances to remember...
No "Safe" Drinking Level (Score:2, Insightful)
They found that there was no "safe" level of drinking
I also hear the mortality rate of people who eat and breath is rather high, some say as high as 100%. But, I'd take that with a grain of salt
Re:No "Safe" Drinking Level (Score:5, Insightful)
So while eating and breathing causes a 100% mortality rate, the average age of mortality for eaters and breathers is quite high. The mortality rate of non-eaters and non-breathers is significantly lower than the mortality rate of eaters and breathers.
So the comparison should be between alcohol drinkers and non-alcohol drinkers, but that would be disastrous to the specious point you are trying to make.
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As you so pedantically point out that an obvious joke eluded you, the comparison should be between alcohol users and non-alcohol users. Unfortunately, as 85% [US NIH] of the population has and does consume alcohol to some degree, we find ourselves in a position where such comparisons do not yield a lot of useful data.
The facts that I have seen suggest that "alcohol abuse", or "binge drinking" does indeed have the disastrous effects on health that you are assuming, however mild to moderate drinking does not.
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Haven't you heard? Salt will kill you!
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Also, no salt will kill you.
I don't know, I plan on living forever (Score:2)
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Don't do it! Salt is bad for you.
"Journalism" vs science (Score:5, Insightful)
Straight from the linked study:
>As with any observational study, we cannot infer causality from association.
Journalist:
>Drinking Any Amount of Alcohol Causes Damage To the Brain, Study Finds
You can't make this shit up.
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we cannot infer causality from association
So it's possible that damaged brains lead to drinking?
Re:"Journalism" vs science (Score:5, Funny)
or that damaged brains lead to american journalism
Re:"Journalism" vs science (Score:5, Insightful)
Not sure, but American journalism can certainly damage brains.
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it's the circle of damaged brain american life
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Yes. Maybe brain damage causes drinking.
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You don't have to make anything up - the entire article is framed with phrases that strongly imply, "There is no save level of alcohol consumption that won't decrease brain matter." In fact, the very paragraph you reference then goes on to conclude, "Reverse causation is unlikely."
I think even reporters know how to read between the lines.
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You missed the measurement of alcohol intake: "self-reported".
I would wager that there was considerable under-reporting amongst the people who drank.
Re:"Journalism" vs science (Score:5, Insightful)
However, the sensitivity analyses estimated that unobserved confounding would need to be of a greater strength than any recognized observed confounder, including age and smoking, to obviate the association between alcohol and brain health, which seems implausible.
and
Reverse causation is unlikely because the earliest detectable brain changes occur in the late 40’s, by which time there have usually been decades of alcohol exposure.
and
Our findings suggest that there is no safe level of alcohol consumption for brain health.
Say what you like about CNN, at least the people they paid to read the article and report on it did more than cherry pick things.
The study correctly states that they cannot infer causality from association.
That does not mean that they cannot apply logical constraints to inferences.
This is standard in any study.
I rate you worse than CNN, by any means.
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Straight from the linked study:
>As with any observational study, we cannot infer causality from association.
Journalist:
>Drinking Any Amount of Alcohol Causes Damage To the Brain, Study Finds
You can't make this shit up.
>Society Welcomes and Respects 'Journalists' No Matter What They Say
I wish I was making shit up.
Re:"Journalism" vs science (Score:5, Informative)
The study also gets its own facts wrong. They claim "no safe dose" yet pretty much exclude light drinkers who drink less than 7 units of alcohol per week, and specifically say they're looking at moderate consumption. And it appears to treat 7 drinks on one day of the week the same as 7 drinks spread throughout the week.
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There are other problems with the study as well, such as their central and completely unsubstantiated claim of "minor loss of gray matter volume = damage".
But I just wanted to point out the most obvious, and most hilarious problem with the story.
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Well, in going from the study to the headline, apparently they did make that shit up.
Drinking (Score:2)
Indeed. Dishonesty or stupidity?
U.K. standards (Score:5, Informative)
It's worth noting that the graphs at the end of the study paper actually suggest that a small number of drinks per week might actually be beneficial. It's hard tell where the threshold is since the graphs go from 0 to 100 drinks per week. They also don't seem to have distinguished between binging less than once a month and never binging.
It's scary that they found enough people drinking over 100 units per week.
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100 drinks a week?!
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At 100 drinks a week, I imagine some loss of grey matter is the least of your health worries. I looked several times in case I had 100 drinks and didn't remember, but yes, 100 drinks a week. Two of the graphs went to 150/week!
Re:U.K. standards (Score:5, Informative)
100 units of alcohol. One pint of beer is 2.4 units. So 6 pints a day, of 8 12 oz US beers. That is scary. If it didn't kill me outright I'd never leave the bathroom.
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But one is certain: it would not kill you from the alcohol.
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It's a little bit less scary when you realize the UK uses a different standard drink size from the US. The UK standard is 8g of ethanol, while the US standard is about 14g. That means 100 UK drinks is just under 60 American. That's still a lot of alcohol- anyone who drinks that much is a hard core alcoholic- but it's not quite as crazy.
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It's scary that they found enough people drinking over 100 units per week.
(Study Coordinator) "This is weird. According to our calculations, this lack-of-control group should have been brain dead by Wednesday afternoon."
Drinking is a part of human nature (Score:5, Insightful)
We have written and archeological evidence of humans knowingly brewing and drinking alcohol as far back as seven thousand years ago. And I'd bet every cent I have that the tradition goes much farther back than that. It's part of the human condition to desire an alteration of consciousness from time to time, and alcohol is an easy method of doing so.
Red meat causes cancer. Alcohol causes brain damage. Salt causes hypertension. Sex can result in STD's. High intensity exercise or physical activity can cause injury and even death. Turns out life isn't particularly kind to living, stop worrying about what will shorten your life and make sure what life you do get to live was fulfilling to you.
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and one just entered my head
If a man can't drink while he living
how the hell can he drink when he's dead.
Animals drink too (Score:2)
They have been observed eating overripe fermented fruit with gusto and getting drunk.
When cows get temporary paralysis after calving, a pint of port calms them down until they can get up again. Surprisingly, it only takes about one pint to make a big cow quite merry. They seem to like the taste.
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I must not be human.
I don't drink, as in any kind, beer, wine, vodka, etc.
I don't like the taste either.
The only kind of alteration of consciousness I have is from medicines, or caffeine.
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There's no logical incompatibility between "drinking alcohol is part of the human condition" and "some humans are teetotalers". I'm sure you've benefited from avoiding alcohol, especially your memory. I'm trying to do the same, mostly. But no purity tests.
Just took a look (Score:5, Interesting)
Based on the graphs at the end, and given my level of alcohol consumption (maybe 6 total drinks a week, if that) - even if the study’s conclusions are valid, I don’t personally see much cause for concern. The slope at that end of the graphs is pretty minor. And as sjames mentioned above, there may actually be some evidence that very light drinking is beneficial, regardless of the stated conclusion.
My desk job is likely a bigger negative factor against my health than my alcohol consumption is.
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very light drinking is beneficial
For your heart.
Mortality due to heart disease is very distinct from dementia.
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Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not a bad deal (Score:4, Funny)
> Life is short,
But if you give up drinking it will seem longer...
Re: Not a bad deal (Score:3)
You're only thinking you are making an argument against drinking.
Just as likely to be inverse (Score:3, Funny)
That is, you need to be brain damaged just a little bit in order to take one drink of that devil's brew called alcohol.
I for one am proof that this study is true. I swear I was a genius back in middle school, but after years of wine, beer and bourbon, I can barely remember who the GOP bribed me to vote for.
Great >:( (Score:2)
Next they'll be saying the same about marijuana.
Fuck you, scientists!
That explains it (Score:2)
Cause or effect? (Score:2)
Tomorrow... new study shows reduced grey matter gives you more reason to be a drinker.
Time to give beer up? (Score:2)
So, I finally have switch to smaller glasses?
From a pint of stout to a fine whiskey?
alternatives (Score:4, Interesting)
There are numerous alternatives to alcohol which bring similar benefits (reduction of social anxiety, etc). Many have fewer negative side effects (violence, urination, vomiting, loss of brain cells).
But, in their wisdom, most of our governments have made these alternatives illegal.
I"m still here! (Score:3)
We must consider the greater social good (Score:2)
Maybe enjoying the relaxing effects of a few glasses of wine on weekends with my girlfriend affects my brain in a negative way. But I guarantee if I didn't have this valuable social reset strategy available, facing the assholes I'm forced to deal with during the week would result in some serious casualties.
I shall consider the greater good and continue to take one for the team.
Jeanne Calmant... (Score:2)
Drank a little port wine every day for most of her life, was still mentally sharp, and showed no signs of brain deterioration ... at 122 ...
Cheers
Study finds... (Score:2)
Yes, because an un-peer reviewed observational study based on self reports of drinking will have high validity. I can't possibly think of any confounding variables. /sarcasm
Do it right. Double blind, control group versus experimental, multiple levels of IV (amount consumed). Ideally, would look at more specific structural changes, like prefrontal cortex size or connectivity (alcohol addiction has massive effects on PFC, would be interesting to see what effect there is from more casual consumption). Ideally,
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"All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison." [wikipedia.org]
That doesn't mean I want to ingest even tiny amounts of Ricin, VX, Batrachotoxin, Maitotoxin or Botulinum.
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Drinking wine IS good for you (Score:2)
> All of those stories about how drinking wine is good for you are just press hits ...
I always feel better after a good glass or two.
Re:Drinking wine IS good for you (Score:5, Interesting)
The "red wine is good for you" meme turned out to be a case of "C!=C".
Higher-income people drink red wine instead of beer. Higher-income people have better health.
But once the data was corrected to account for income, it turned out that none of the health benefits were caused by the wine.
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And then, because the solution required actually improving social justice rather than just scolding less rich people, the whole thing was dropped.
Re: Drinking wine IS good for you (Score:2)
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So the take away is if you are rich and in good health, drink wine because you're still better off than being poor?
Re:Drinking wine IS good for you (Score:4, Interesting)
Grape juice would have the same amount of antioxidants, plus it has vitamin C. (which is lost in the wine making process)
It's not as fun to drink though.
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>"All of those stories about how drinking wine is good for you are just press hits"
Yep.
The positive part of wine is grape. There is nothing "healthy" about consuming alcohol. If you want the advantages of grapes, then eat them, drink grape juice, or take grape seed extract (something I have done for 15+ years).
Re:Press Hits (Score:5, Insightful)
There is nothing "healthy" about consuming alcohol.
I wouldn't be comfortable making that assertion without defining "health". For the study in question, it was defined in terms of a currently measurable characteristic of the brain. But it's not unreasonable to include some notion of Darwinian survival, i.e., reproductive fitness, or ultimately having a kid, in measures of health. By that much broader measure, alcohol, in altering human behavior, may indeed be "healthy". For alcohol made an introverted, somewhat cowardly, asshole like me seem, temporarily, less so. Or maybe I brought out something else. If alcohol were truly all bad for humans (including their reproductive health), it would not have survived in our culture. Nobody does rat poison recreationally: there's no upside.
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>"If alcohol were truly all bad for humans (including their reproductive health), it would not have survived in our culture."
Well, not sure I would agree with that.
In any case, I never said alcohol was "bad" in the posting, I said nothing about it is "healthy."
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Your original comment left no scope for a "health" advantage for alcohol, and I disagreed and provided reasonable justification.
I would add that of course people use alcohol to reduce stress, and while I haven't researched this, I did find https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/pub... [nih.gov] .
Re: Press Hits (Score:3)
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>"So wine, at the time, was a lot healthier than straight creek water or well water."
Agreed. But on a scale from unhealthly-neutral-healthy, I still think it is never on the healthy side. It can less dangerous than other things, of course, but I don't think that makes it "healthy."
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so does reading any amount of Facebook.
FTFY.
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blogs
NYT
NYT has been a journalistic institution for over a century. What 5-year-old website do you read?
The Fox tabloid. Though in fairness, it's been around for more than five years. It's just that its articles are written for five year olds.
Re: Says the retard spamming CNN drivel (Score:3)
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Just remember that correlation is not evidence of causality.
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The tannins and what-not probably are good. That doesn't stop alcohol being bad at the same time.