>"The extension quickly went viral as a much-needed filter for people who still use Amazon"

Who "still use Amazon"? As opposed to what? Walmart?? Is buying from Amazon not a thing anymore and I somehow missed it?

"You will own nothing and be happy"

Or you can install Linux and potentially be a hell of a lot happier/safer/free.

Great for them. No great for home and regular business consumers who can no longer afford memory or storage anymore :(

>"The wear using infrequent 63% to 83% was drastically more than tons more cycles from 23% to 83%"

If it wasn't apparent, I had a major wording error, above. The correct wording is:

"The wear using infrequent 23% to 83% was drastically more than tons more cycles from 63% to 83%"

>"Can you provide an example of this in the car industry for batteries? I can only find sensible advice on improving longevity. In fact to go through the GP's example using a Polestar 2:"

Unfortunately, I can't locate the Nissan Ariya example. But I have seen it. I didn't save the document or link. Perhaps this is only limited to Nissan, though.

As for your list- For trip routing, it does use the 80% rule for DC charging stop planning. But there are no warnings about charging more than 80%. And that is mostly about time, because the last 20% takes so much longer. AC charging is not factored in there. And there is no way to limit charging from the vehicle with AC charging. And no advice or warnings, either in the vehicle display nor the manual.

>"Nitpick: No cars on the market rapid charge above 80%. That's also why they quote 20-80% figures for the speed of fast charging."

The Ariya will charge to 100% on a fast DC charger, unless it is the charger that stops the charging. Of course, you can terminate the charge manually at any time from the charger or the vehicle.

>"I wonder how much this is engineering and marketing function."

100% marketing so they can pretend it doesn't matter how it is charged.

>"A percent indicator is something that an engineer decides to show you. It could very well be that they prioritised battery life over total distance and as a result 100% may be the 90% of the competition"

The actual battery size is 91kWh with 87kWh (for the larger version). The % indicator at 100% is 100% of the 91kWh. The reserve is hidden on the low end (based on experiments).

>"But since you're complaining about it it may not be a decision which resonated with users and end result maybe it was a marketing push to add the adjustment back in user's hands"

Users aren't complaining about the reserve. We are complaining about the inability to tell the car to charge only to 70% or 75% or 80% or whatever. When an EVSE is connected, it will always charge to 100%. There is no user option in the Ariya to set a charge percent on which to stop. There is an option to set a schedule based on time, but that is meant for rate metering, as is time-only, not percent. It was clearly a marketing decision. There is even some marketing material implying (but not directly saying) that you can charge to 100% "safely" without "worry." And that doesn't fit the science fact about NMC. I am not sure any other EV does that. Nissan apparently relented and put a charge limiter in the new Leaf, but hasn't updated the Ariya to allow it. And both vehicles use the same battery type and charging techniques.

>"I wonder if anyone has done a teardown to see if 100% was actually 100% or not."

Based on experiments with full charge, full depletion, and then externally measuring charge again in kWh, people have determined that 100% is 100% (or very close).

>"Home come cell telephone batteries never exceed expectations? They usually operate in conditions that are ideal compared to car batteries. Four years with this phone and the battery is at 75% max capacity."

How often are you charging it to only 80%? How often to you charge before hitting 40%? 20%?

My Samsung A52 5G phone is 5 years old now and seems fine. But I also set the charge limiter (80%) on it from day one. And it rarely sees discharge below 50% before it is charged again. I don't use it a lot during the day, though. Also do the same with my Galaxy Tab S9. Also do the same with my Lenovo X13 Gen3A running Linux (via "tlp" https://linrunner.de/tlp/usage... )

>"Many pedelec batteries, but also the Nissan Leaf use Lithium-Manganeseoxide (LiMO) cells."

The original, old, gen 1 Leaf, yes (2011-2017). But that was changed to NMC in gen 2 (2018-2025), but not sure the exact formula. The new (2026+ gen 3) Leaf uses NMC 811 (80% Nickel, 10% Manganese, 10% Cobalt), just like the Ariya.

>"This isn't good advice."

Actually, yes it is, for the majority of EV's. Although it is less relevant for LFP.

>"Know your battery's chemistry"

For sure.

>"and what the manufacturer advises"

Keep in mind (as I pointed out in my post) that sometimes marketing will get in the way of good advice.

>"Did you get your post backwards"

No.

One of the major causes of Lithium-based battery wear (that the user can control) is physical, from the collection and release of the lithium in the anode/cathode. Each time this causes expansion and contraction of the electrodes and the more added or removed, the larger the physical size transformation (and more damaging it is, especially for modern higher-nickel content cells). Narrowing the amount you put in/remove (to a point) will reduce that physical expansion and contraction and extend the life.

Most general info will just show the typical/general 20-80% use that we are all very familiar with (for NMC). And that is good advice. But even narrower is much better. Here is a good video from Dr. Jeff Dahn...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Note the data shown at 5:14. The wear using infrequent 63% to 83% was drastically more than tons more cycles from 23% to 83%. And cooler temperatures (on the next data shown) drastically reduce wear as well. His specific recommendation was to charge at no lower than 45% to no higher then 70% (when possible/reasonable). There is probably a diminishing return with more narrowing.

Here is a longer, older video that goes into a deep dive about microcracking when charging/discharging: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

>"it is a nissan they were never designed to last that has not changed since their ICE cars"

Compared to *what*? American cars? Kia's? At the price point, they are very realistically reliable (comparable to Honda/Toyota, depending on model). For ICE, they did have a questionable stint with their CVT's, but design corrections caught up.

>"First link references that photoshoped image of a battery replacement fee of 20k. You can tell it's photoshoped as the text on it is cleaner than the creased and crinkled paper."

Might be. But it is not far outside the window of actual expense, at least on the high-side. If you have a large battery (like 87kWh), my research shows it can cost $18,000 to replace (parts and labor for a brand new OEM one) in mine. And some manufacturers might be significantly higher... plus I am sure the price is very volatile.

Of course, most warranties cover many years/miles (8 years/100K miles in my case) and if any care at all is taken to avoid the worst charging/use behaviors, it is extremely probable it will last more than double the warranty.

>"I don't know what expectations these are defying unless they're from those created by anti-EV FUD. I thought it was pretty clear that EV batteries usually last longer than the cars themselves."

There are numerous actual/real cases of poor outcomes for some EV use cases (expensive battery replacements in this topic). But they usually involved very frequent DC/fast charging, from low to high charge states, frequent use/deep discharging, and on older tech. Simple changes to charging methods (I listed in another post, below) will counter most of that. And newer vehicles have better chemistries, better temperature management, and better battery management systems.

Negative news/reviews/word-of-mouth spreads more widely and has more impact than positive, and stick around a long time. It will take some time for that to clear away, I don't think it is an "anti-EV" conspiracy. In most cases, it is just people operating on outdated information that also carried more fear-factor than warranted. A vehicle purchase is a MAJOR expense for most people, and nobody wants to make a big mistake. Especially true if you are the long-term-owner type and not the lease-and-trade in 2 or 3 years type buyer.

As happy as I am with my EV, I would still not recommend one to most people who cannot charge at home (and at level 2 if they drive significant distances frequently). I am sure that will change, but when you have to buy now, you have to live with the now consequences.

>"Leaf were a special case. I think they were air cooled as didn't like fast charging"

The Leaf has been around a long, long time, so it used the oldest tech. The Ariya, and now the new (2026+) Leaf use a slightly different chemistry (high nickel), coupled with battery cooling (liquid to air AND liquid to active HVAC) and heating (standard). They are going to last a LOT longer (and charge faster).

One strange quirk is that the Ariya had no percent charge limiter, at all. Very annoying. I believe it was a marketing thing, trying to raise confidence that you can charge to 100% every time without worrying about battery wear. The reality is that it might not matter as much as in the past, but it is still a very valid factor. More annoying is they added the charge percent limiter in the new Leaf, but didn't software update the Ariya with that ability (yet, but nobody is holding their breath).

In any case the batteries will wear much less if:

1) Charge is limited to around 70-80% or so, max, when possible/convenient.
2) Charge is not allowed to go very low (like 20% or less).
3) Rapid DC charging is avoided. And if used, charge only to 80%
4) Frequent narrow charging is always better (like 45%-70% or 60%-80%) than less-frequent wider charging (like 30%-80%).
5) Never allow vehicle to sit in hot weather for many days at or near 100% charge (even Nissan does relay this info).

And that holds for all Lithium Ion batteries, in all devices. And most of it also applies to Lithium phosphate as well. Much of the above is not possible (or practical) unless you do at-home charging, which is why that is an important component in EV satisfaction. There is probably no need now to "baby" the batteries. But just some simple guidelines to consider/perform when convenient and when you don't need the range, can probably greatly extended the battery life.

As a side note, people were critical of the Aryia's maximum DC/fast charge amperage (130kW), only to find that the systems are so improved over older vehicles, that the actual charge time ended up being about the same or even faster (in some cases) than older vehicles with much higher maximum amperage.

>"It looks like abridged reporting. A quick search suggests that it is a one time payment of $400 / kW capacity feedable back to the grid for a 2 hour interval daily, with a contractual commitment of some number of years"

+1 informative. Thanks, that clears it up some.