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Driverless Cars Could Make Transportation Free for Everyone -- With a Catch (theatlantic.com) 177
Want a gratis ride? You'll just have to stop at some stores along the way. The Atlantic explores a possible future with autonomous cars: In a world full of autonomous autos, transportation will become free. Not just hands-free, or driver-free, or go-wherever-you-want free. But free as in beer: complimentary, gratis. Summon a car and travel for nothing -- that is, so long as you are willing to make a stop or two en route at sponsoring locations. Picture a not-too-distant future where a trip across town is available to anyone who will spend 15 minutes in McDonald's on the way. Not a fast-food fan? Then for you it's Starbucks, a bookstore, the game parlor. Rides with a child stop at the Disney store, while teenage girls are routed via next decade's version of Zara and H&M. Unlike today's UberPool, with its roundabout routes and multiple passenger pickups, "UberFree" features tailor-made routes and thoughtfully targeted stops. Realtors could pay to have the cars drive slowly past featured properties for sale, past the nice new elementary school in the slightly more affluent neighborhood.
Yeah that would be awful (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yeah that would be awful (Score:5, Insightful)
If you think that's a realistic view of the future, I weep for your parents
Thinking it's realistic and thinking it's awesome are different. I can think it's realistic and still think it's awful.
Anyway, people have shown time and again that they are willing to trade privacy, subjection to advertising for a free product or service. Seems pretty realistic to me.
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I do see it as a probable future (good luck sustaining a business off those of us who will pay to avoid ads). I can see lots of people on Slashdot saying, as they explain away their use, "I just get more work done while the Uber-free is driving all over and am a unique individual who never pays attention to ads anyway."
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"I just get more work done while the Uber-free is driving all over and am a unique individual who never pays attention to ads anyway."
Which is a neat trick when the car ejects you from the seat and forces you to either go inside the damn store or cool your heels in the parking lot for 15 minutes.
Still, the business case is completely absent. The folks you want to drag into a store can afford to not need an enforced-shopping-trip-subsidized ride. And the impoverished needing to get from Point A to Point B
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I'd have said the same thing about e-mail, but even pretty rich people (and small-to-mid sized companies, even with lots of cash) use ad supported email. In the new world, driverless cars get more and more expensive as they need to meet standard 103.1.4 (not backwards compatible) for road use, and they are only available in 10k car lots. I suppose you may be able to buy one, but it'll be prohibitive eve
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A penny per email will make money, whereas a penny per ride will bankrupt the idiots who try this dumb idea.
You do realize that today, taxis have static and even display-based advertising, right? That's right, they pay to install an LCD panel and whatever small computer and connectivity is required to drive the ads.
Advertising is priced on sales conversion.
See an ad for McD's on a web page: low conversion rate.
Forced to stare at a screen for 20 minutes in the backseat of a taxi: higher conversion rate.
Forced to wait at McD's for 20 minutes: high conversion rate.
The only idiots are the people that are blind to the
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That piece of plastic with a McDonald's ad is not paying for the entire ride, otherwise we'd be riding for free or at a significant discount.
No one is suggesting that. They are suggesting that a shared ride system that drops off 10 people at McDonalds would pay for the shared ride.
I think it's foolish.
You can think that all you want but it doesn't change the fact that advertising is extremely lucrative. Advertising has a proven payoff.
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Anyway, people have shown time and again that they are willing to trade privacy, subjection to advertising for a free product or service. Seems pretty realistic to me.
But they're very resistant to inconvenience in transportation, which this would be. "I don't want to take the fucking bus! It'll take like 15 minutes longer!!! I'd rather belch out my carbon dioxide, spend 20 minutes finding parking, and potentially get in a fatal accident than put up with public transit!"
I would be surprised if UberFree doesn't end in literal bloodshed.
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If your bus system takes only 15 minutes longer to any given destination, you're incredibly fortunate.
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The only people willing to put up with this are people desparate for a free ride (to the doctor, to the job agency, etc).
Good thing those type of people do not exist.
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Except that advertising does not earn that moch money per person.
You think there's a difference between seeing an ad for McDonalds on a web page, and being forced to wait for 20 minutes at a McDonalds? Would one of those tend to produce more sales?
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Driverless cars are possible, but not on streets where there are teenagers who are always in a hurry. Its sad, but it's true. And in the snow belts, I would really be impressed if a car could manage drifts, salt spray clogging up the cameras or detectors that guide the vehicle.
Perhaps the safest way to have driverless cars is to have an overhead system that monitors each vehicle in its range, and can control the vehicle, instead of that software residing within the vehicle. Far less complicated, and safer
Nagahapen (Score:3)
If this were feasible, those same businesses would already be operating public transit (buses with drivers) with the same premise. So what's missing? Ah, it's income qualification be make sure the passengers have enough disposable income to make purchases likely. Now THAT I can believe.
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This already happens. If you've travelled in Asia, there are shopping tours that take you to the attractions but drop you off for shopping first. These have a nominal cost and get most of their money from merchants. On a smaller scale, tuk tuk drivers in Bangkok get a commission for dropping shoppers at businesses. If you're not in a rush, you can negotiate free rides if you don't mind shopping.
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If you've travelled in the US, you will encounter casino buses. These offer the identical free service to city people willing to spend a comped weekend at their casino/hotel. You have to pinky swear to stay in their casino, but this is not closely monitored.
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With a gasoline vehicle where you have to pay a driver for each trip, it's right out if the question.
I haven't run the numbers, but it clearly starts looking less stupid when there's no driver to pay and just a bit of battery charging.
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If this were feasible, those same businesses would already be operating public transit (buses with drivers) with the same premise. So what's missing? Ah, it's income qualification be make sure the passengers have enough disposable income to make purchases likely. Now THAT I can believe.
We already have something similar called 'validated parking'. Shop and your parking is free.
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Shopping PSA: if you go to the Houston Galleria, and you expect to be there more than an hour or two (I forget the exact payoff moment, but it's in that time frame), it's actually cheaper to valet right behind Neiman-Marcus (entrance from Post Oak) than it is to park in the public lots.
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Also the bus gets cleaned at least once a day, if your AIUber arrives with only puke in it you're lucky.
I love Utopian shit, what a future we could have if filthy humans weren't filthy humans.
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Re: Yeah that would be awful (Score:2)
Agreed, I'd rather drive myself then wait an extra 15 minutes somewhere random.
Re: Yeah that would be awful (Score:5, Insightful)
The whole idea is stupid. I could hack around that in about 30 seconds of trying.
You want to go to BigBoxCo
Option 1: "Take me to BigBoxCo", but it makes one stop at McDonalds and waits 15 minutes there.
Option 2 : "Take me to McDonalds". And when you get there, "Take me to BigBoxCo" (no wait)
Option 3: "Take me to BigBoxCo", stops at McDonalds, you and your friend get out and get into the next car "Take me to BigBoxCo", meanwhile useless car is useless for 15 minutes, waiting for you to come back.
The real way to do it is to put a big screen TV in it, and play ads for the duration of the trip. You could even do games (for a fee) while en route. Play against the car next to you.
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And how do any of those hacks get you directly to BigBoxCo without paying?
Option 1 is the service itself and not a hack. Option 2 would take you to other places first in order to get the free ride so it would be Home -> Tour of Neighbourhood -> McDonalds -> Starbucks -> BigBoxCo
If you tried Option 3 too many times then you would just not get picked up anymore or always have to pay for your rides. And the second time you ask to go to BigBoxCo if you opt for the free option it will take you to som
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The real way to do it is to put a big screen TV in it, and play ads for the duration of the trip. You could even do games (for a fee) while en route. Play against the car next to you.
I've already seen taxis with video ads, while I'm already paying for the service.
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I was thinking it would be more likely that an screen would play ads the entire trip and they would still charge you full price plus charge businesses to advertise.
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Agreed, I'd rather drive myself then wait an extra 15 minutes somewhere random.
That's the part which makes no sense. How often do you go out and just randomly drive around town? Probably not very often. If you have somewhere you need to go, you want to . . . go there.
This is a good example of why I'm not rich. I'm not willing to spend my time thinking up scams . . . ooops, I mean business plans . . . . that involve taking money from someone while providing nothing of value in return.
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I wouldn't worry - if trying to get people too poor to afford their own car to come to your store were viable, they'd already do it with buses.
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Are you kidding? It'll be great (Score:2)
I'd rather pay to ride public transit or drive my own car instead of living in that dystopian hell. If you think that's a realistic view of the future, I weep for your parents -- they clearly failed you -- and humanity in general.
Both your preferred options will still be available to you, so I don't get what the problem is. If you don't like it, don't use it. And I'm sure you'll also be able to engage an autonomous vehicle for a fee that will take you directly to your destination. In fact, I expect that if you're in a hurry you'll be able to "bribe" other autonomous cars to make way for yours so that you can speed along. For those with no money though, it'll be a blessing to be able to travel for no out-of-pocket expenditure, at the
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Autonomous cars are the solution looking for a problem. Lots of folks are spending lots of money on the development of this technology, so we will eventually have autonomous cars . . .
. . . but when we have them, what will we do with them . . . ? I guess a lot more folks are holding wild west brainstorming sessions, trying to think up something else useful to do with autonomous cars. I think we'll see a lot more wacky ideas over the next years.
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I'd rather pay to ride public transit or drive my own car instead of living in that dystopian hell. If you think that's a realistic view of the future, I weep for your parents -- they clearly failed you -- and humanity in general.
Consume or be stranded, citizen!
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I'd rather pay to ride public transit or drive my own car instead of living in that dystopian hell.
Why would it be a dystopian hell? UberPool is opt-in only. People who want to pay full price just pick UberX. I assume it would be the same for this UberFree idea.
If you think that's a realistic view of the future...
This idea already exists anyway, but with shuttles. In the San Francisco Bay Area, there are free shuttles that take people from the Bart station to different malls and there are free shuttles that take people from the airport to particular hotels.
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Yes, it must be truly awful that people might be given this choice. It's somehow evil, so we should make sure people don't have the choice to be driven this way.
It has nothing to do with "choice" or depriving people of choice.
It's simply being pointed out that this is a stupid idea that will almost certainly fail for a variety of reasons.
Nobody was ever forced to buy a pet rock, but it was still a stupid idea.
Must watch ads too (Score:2)
Now the idea is public. Prior art. No one should be able to patent this.
sounds delightful! (Score:5, Insightful)
How is this any different than being herded like fucking cattle?
It seems like any time there's a trade between personal responsibility and autonomy for safety/efficiency -- It's never for the benefit of the everyday person. Regardless of how it's spun.
They'll have to pry my cold, lifeless hands off of my steering wheel.
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station musicians, break-dancers want your coins (Score:2)
station musicians, break-dancers want your coins and cash.
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Just sit back and relax. Let someone else do the driving [wordpress.com].
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too soon man, too soon.
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How is this any different than being herded like fucking cattle?
They'll have to pry my cold, lifeless hands off of my steering wheel.
"Manual driving" will acquire hipster nostalgia, like those vinyl records they're always on about. Georgia and Tennessee will set up State Driving Parks, where after your Uber drops you off at the visitor center you will be able to rent classic Corvettes and drive yourself around a loop of imitation small villages with classic Main Streets, drag strips, drive-in theaters, Sonic Drive-Thrus, and some "inspiration Points" in view locations.
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they're wrong about vinyl records, and they'd be wrong about this one too.
Ceding control over something as fundamental as how you get from point a to point b, and leaving it in the hands of people who's vested interest is either in selling shit to you, or controlling you -- is just an incredibly bad idea.
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So you're the guy who tried to break into the cockpit, yelling something about "I wanna drive!" on that last trip to Europe?
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The everyday person is the one who gets the choice between paid transportation and ad-supported transportation. As long as the choice exists, it's really hard for me to believe that this is bad for the everyday person.
Breaking the System... (Score:2)
Soo reading this article I just thought of something stupid that might make this not work. So get piss drunk with beer so you don't remember the ads since hopefully it'll get you there eventually?
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Get drunk and get taken to Taco Bell (with inflated prices), a high pressure sales pitch (goodbye inhibitions) or a brothel. It doesn't matter if you remember, your cash and any credit you can get are gone.
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What is this "drivers side" you speak of?
Re:Breaking the System... (Score:4, Interesting)
If they manage to accurately mine my data, they'll refuse to take me anywhere, knowing that the advertising will cause me to actively avoid their brand.
Advertising is worthwhile only when it generates more in profits than it costs. Good luck on that.
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Mining data will only give behavioural averages, and on that you are an anomaly. Sadly most people will just be heared by the latest trends and advertising without thought. And people like you can keep on driving :)
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In this case, I can defeat them by continuing to own my own car. If need by, I could live close enough to work to walk or bicycle.
But human driven cars aren't going anywhere any time soon, and when they do, advertising supported "free" rides won't be more than a short lived curiosity, like ad supported "free" internet services were.
This isn't a new idea. It's failed many times before.
Unapproved Thought Detected (Score:3)
Johnny Cab (Score:2)
Can't wait for the Johnny Cab from Total Recall.
hmm,... (Score:2)
stopping at every strip joint on my way to work sounds kind of fun *gig*
Decades ago ... (Score:5, Funny)
Explain to me how this new system is different.
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It still happens, and not just in third world countries. Beware of this when traveling. The foreign office of your country should advise you if that's likely where you are visiting... and not a few Eastern European (but EU) countries are on that list.
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The beating would encourage you to travel with enough money for the next time.
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we take credit / checks with an ID / and bitcoin (you pay the fees)
what about being liable for parking lot accidents? (Score:2)
what about being liable for parking lot accidents? The store may ending being the one to pay up or at the very least have to court to defend them self's.
Somebody misunderstands a meaning (Score:1)
This is not true if there are ads. Then its not free.
I will keep my car thanks. I drive between 3 different location constantly and transport equipment between them.
NotAChance (Score:2)
Already tried concept (Score:2)
In 90s, I used to stay in Pasadena. During 1994 World Cup, Pasadena businesses started free bus service which will take people from across the town to downtown and Rosebowl for free. It had good coverage and frequency. Not sure if it is still there and if not when did they shutdown but it was there at least for 3 - 4 years that I know of.
Or we could just have public f'ing transportation (Score:2)
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We'll all be filthy rich in the sense that we'll all have everything we need
This [blogspot.com] is what you need.
and most of what we want.
I want an F40 Ferrari. I guess 'most of' would be defined as a Porsche 911. I will just have to make do.
Geez. (Score:2)
Talk about a captive audience.
Similar Idea Would Work (Score:2)
So the idea presented in the summary probably wouldn't be popular enough to work, but there is a similar idea that would potentially work. The key idea in all of this is that transportation costs in electric self-driving cars are low enough to do things that would be crazy now.
So what could work is businesses offering free rides to and from their businesses. You want to shop at Amazon Whole Foods? They'll send you a car. Want groceries from Price Chopper, you'll have to figure out how to get there yours
Alternatively (Score:2)
Alternatively I suspect that households will continue to purchase a self-driving car - simply because sharing a car which doesn't go directly where you want it to smacks too much of public transport.
However the majority of families will only need one car to cover all the activities that they'd previously require two for - simply because a self-driving car can drive itself between two locations without the need for a human to be in control.
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Sounds unlikely. If there are enough cars you can rent on relatively short notice, that will be vastly cheaper.
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From the window to the wall (Score:2)
Uber: "Sir, your Uber ride will be free, but only if you stop at the Purple Rhino Gentleman's Club."
Me: "Oh well, if I have to, I have to."
Can I Pay To Have Victim Delivered to Me? (Score:2)
If people are being taken to destinations chosen by a sponsor can they keep criminals from arranging to have victims taken to an arranged soon-to-be crime scene? Want to rob, kidnap, rape or murder someone? Arrange a free ride sponsorship that makes a "special stop" somewhere remote.
Sort of like Craig's List, but without the target knowing they will be "meeting someone".
Gun Store + Ski Mask + Liquor Store! (Score:2)
iRobU is SO Convenient!
Not everyone lives in a dense city (Score:2)
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Richard Stallman analogy (Score:2)
New business plan (Score:2)
That was touring China in 2000. (Score:4, Informative)
I remember being a tourist in China. The good old CITS had the van/bus stopping to visit various shopping locations between historical or cultural stops. This would fit right into their model.
âoeFreeâ - you keep saying that word... (Score:2)
âThe âoesponsoringâ money comes from somewhere (hint: thatâ(TM)s you)â
Why luxury safer electric cars should be free (Score:2)
Me from 2009: https://groups.google.com/foru... [google.com]
"This essay explain why luxury safer electric (or plug-in hybrid) cars should be free-to-the-user at the point of sale in the USA, and why this will reduce US taxes overall. Essentially, unsafe gasoline-powered automobiles in the USA pose a high cost on society (accidents, injuries, pollution, defense), and the costs of making better cars would pay for themselves and then some. This essay is an example of using post-scarcity ideology to understand the scarcity-
Let's do the math (Score:2)
Time is money (Score:2)
15 minutes translates to different dollar amounts for different people. For the minimum wage employee, that's a few bucks. For the overpaid lawyer, that might be several hundred dollars. You do that twice a day five days a week, that adds up no matter who you are. Of course, you'd no longer be able to say that 15 minutes saved you 15% on your car insurance by switching to Geico.
Free as in price can mean paying with privacy. (Score:2)
And free from privacy; what you do and say inside the car can be recorded and shared with an uncountable number of others who would otherwise have no idea what you did or said. The car you ride in is not your car, so you'll have no permission to inspect or modify the car
There will be no McDonald's or Starbuck's (Score:2)
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Nothing new. Already being done. It's called Kaffeefahrt [wikipedia.org]. Seems there's no english wikipedia page for that one.
In English we're definitely going to have to name it something else, even if we open one in say, a Schlitterbahn.