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Amazon Wants Apartment Buildings to Install a 'Key' System that Lets Them Enter the Lobby (pennlive.com) 178

Posted by EditorDavid from the boxes-with-smiles dept.
"Amazon is tired of ringing doorbells," reports the Associated Press. "The online shopping giant is pushing landlords around the country — sometimes with financial incentives — to give its drivers the ability to unlock apartment-building doors themselves with a mobile device." The service, dubbed Key for Business, is pitched as a way to cut down on stolen packages by making it easy to leave them in lobbies and not outside. Amazon benefits because it enables delivery workers to make their rounds faster. And fewer stolen packages reduce costs and could give Amazon an edge over competitors. Those who have installed the device say it reduces the constant buzzing by delivery people and is a safer alternative to giving out codes to scores of delivery people.

But the Amazon program, first announced in 2018, may stir security and privacy concerns as it gains traction. The company said that it does background checks on delivery people and that they can unlock doors only when they have a package in hand to scan. But tenants may not know that Amazon drivers have access to their building's front doors, since Amazon leaves it up to the building to notify them...

Amazon didn't respond to questions about potential hacking. The company has already installed the device in thousands of U.S. apartment buildings but declined to give a specific number... Amazon salespeople have been fanning out to cities across the country to knock on doors, make cold calls or approach building managers on the street to urge them to install the device. The company has even partnered with local locksmiths to push it on building managers while they fix locks. Amazon installs the device for free and sometimes throws in a $100 Amazon gift card to whoever lets them in.
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Amazon Wants Apartment Buildings to Install a 'Key' System that Lets Them Enter the Lobby More

Amazon Wants Apartment Buildings to Install a 'Key' System that Lets Them Enter the Lobby

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  • What could possibly go Worgn ? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by DenverTech ( 6049994 ) on Saturday July 24, 2021 @08:36PM (#61617295)

    What oucld Possibilty og wrong ?

    • The fr1st p50t?

      That one seems to have misfired...

    • Your spelling shows what waste haste can make, a good warning for Amazon. ;-)

  • I always (politely) challenge people I don't recognize... as they might be committing breaking and entering (;-))

    It's Canada, so we're always polite, and we have this number, 911, that anyone can call.

    • If you install the Amazon master-keyed lock, you kinda forfeit the right to pull the breaking and entering argument.

      • Well I mean it's not your call is it? He's saying as a resident of appartment 1a, should he challange what appears to be someone dropping a package at the doorstop of 1b.

        • Having to and actually doing are two different things. Hobos usually have nothing to lose so they typically just ignore the law, most even go so far as to say that the world is their toilet and they can do whatever they want whenever they want and really don't care if that bothers you. Amazon drivers have their job to lose, and unlike a hobo, somebody actually knows who they are.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

        If each apartment still is locked by the apartment holder it's a case for the landlord to decide.

        But what's wrong with having local pickup points? I don't like the idea of having an expensive package outside my door for many hours before I get home. I might even be away for a few days.

        At least here I usually get a text message telling me that my package is at a pickup point and then I can pick it up at my convenience. I really hate it when they don't offer pickup point for my packages when I order.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

        What I want to know is who is liable when Amazon leave the package outside and who is liable if they leave the package in a lobby.

        If the system becomes widespread then it will probably be hacked. A solution could be to use one-time-codes and that would put residents back in control.

    • is there an USPS rule that may stop this?

      • Probably not in Canada(the person you're responding to), as the USPS is specific to the USA. But on the whole, not even in the USA. Amazon, Fedex, UPS are all package delivery services. While the USPS's remit is for letters, and you can actually get in trouble if you try to, for example, Fedex express 100% of your mail, for packages this would amount to a contract between the apartment complexes who don't want to keep letting in Amazon delivery people, and Amazon.

        • While the USPS's remit is for letters, and you can actually get in trouble if you try to, for example, Fedex express 100% of your mail,

          Actually, you can FedEx whatever you want and as much as you want provided you comply with the Private Express Statutes and affix the approriate postage; or are mailing exempt or extremely urgent material.

    • I always (politely) challenge people I don't recognize... as they might be committing breaking and entering (;-))

      So all I have to do is wear an Amazon hat and carry a box and I'm good?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kenh ( 9056 )

        That is, effectively, the current system, so Yes.

        Imagine if the Amazon worker had a device which knew its current GPS location and the building installed the Amazon lock system. The idea would be the worker drives to the building, he scans the package ID, his device sends the ID, with current GPS coordinates, and once verified, Amazon sends the worker a one-time access code for the door - Amazon has the name, time, and location of the worker, and the package provides the key to enter the complex.

        The worker

  • Because we all know (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Saturday July 24, 2021 @08:43PM (#61617325)

    The company said that it does background checks on delivery people

    Amazon is such a trustworthy company, it must be true. And they pay their delivery drivers so well they really have no incentive to steal anything from the properties they have access to...

    Hell, I wouldn't give bona fide law enforcement officers easy access to my property. Why would I give it to a giant creepy company's entire fleet of overworked underpaid truck drivers?

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by rsilvergun ( 571051 )
      Theft probably isn't much of a problem since they won't have access to the individual units. The problem is stalkers. Sooner or later some woman is going to get raped or killed. Likely by an ex and she moved into a gated community for protection from.

      • Re:Because we all know (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Gavagai80 ( 1275204 ) on Saturday July 24, 2021 @10:00PM (#61617489) Homepage

        We'd better abolish the 90% of single family home neighborhoods and majority of apartment buildings that don't have controlled entry to the common areas, then, or women will all be raped. All 4 apartment complexes I've lived in didn't even have a fence and you can walk right up to the door of any unit... just like you can for the vast majority of houses.

        Lobbies should not be considered high security areas. They may control access, but it's not the end of the world if somebody gets in.

    • It's not only about Amazon employees, if there's a key which can access any apartment building in the US (or at least per regions) - in short time there's no lock to enter common areas in apartment buildings at all.

      • Yep. Google "TSA security keys" for an example of this.

        You can actually download files to make your own TSA keys on a 3D printer.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by hjf ( 703092 )

          God damn it, you armchair specialists. It's not a literal, physical key.

          It's an internet-enabled lock that opens by command of Amazon's servers when the delivery person taps a button on his delivery app.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kenh ( 9056 )

        Virtual key, a one-time use code to open a particular door when the driver has the package in hand for delivery.

        You think Amazon is going to manage handing out shiny brass keys to apartment complexes to drivers?

        I imagine the scenario is this:

        Amazon knows which truck/driver has the package for the secure apt.
        When the driver is gps-located to be standing in front of the security door and scans the package ID, the driver is sent a single use access code.
        Amazon is notified when code is used, and then deactivate

  • In the form of unlimited money is a bad thing.

  • Godsend (Score:5, Insightful)

    by johngen86 ( 8411289 ) on Saturday July 24, 2021 @08:56PM (#61617351)
    My building uses this, and it makes urban living so much better. No longer are packages stolen, no longer are packages missed when the delivery drivers can't get into the building. Grocery delivery now arrives at my apartment door, rather than the street. It's hard to overstate how amazing this is. People here are acting like this is some enormous security problem. What buildings are you actually living in? It's pretty rare to find a residential apartment building where someone can't just tailgate in behind someone. In the US, probably something like 99.9% of all apartment buildings are easy enough for any kid to get in. My own building requires both a key fob and a pass code to enter, yet still you'll find homeless people that have gained entry. The last thing we need to worry about are known Amazon drivers entering a residence using a key that is recorded by both the property and Amazon.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by dfghjk ( 711126 )

      Yes, exactly. Particularly regarding the tailgating problem. Access by professional delivery to the building is a godsend. People with the standard knee-jerk comments are idiots.

    • My building uses this, and it makes urban living so much better. No longer are packages stolen, no longer are packages missed when the delivery drivers can't get into the building. Grocery delivery now arrives at my apartment door, rather than the street.

      In the old days we used to employ somebody to do this for us. He was called a concierge.

      Some places still do, eg. where I live.

      • In France in the war years you could safely assume the consierage had her eyes on everyone and had found it quite profitable to bend whichever way the political winds were blowing. Whether from Paris, Vichy or Berlin.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by MeNeXT ( 200840 )

      My own building requires both a key fob and a pass code to enter, yet still you'll find homeless people that have gained entry.

      So package theft will not be solved by this in your building. Why even bother with locking the main door when you have tenants that just don't care?

    • My apartment building also uses this and it's kind of meh. We really don't have any concerns about Amazonians stealing packages - there are cameras in the lobby and package room, and the drivers would be easy enough to identify. There haven't been any disappearances.

      The big problem is that the drivers are so overworked that a lot of them don't have time to bring the packages to the package room in the basement as they're supposed to, so they just dump the packages in the lobby.

      If we contact Amazon, they wil

    • It's pretty rare to find a residential apartment building where someone can't just tailgate in behind someone. In the US, probably something like 99.9% of all apartment buildings are easy enough for any kid to get in. My own building requires both a key fob and a pass code to enter, yet still you'll find homeless people that have gained entry.

      Tailgate? Buzz all the apartments and chances are somone will let you in.

  • The likelihood of a monitored Amazon employees stealing anything, is way less than fellow apartment dwellers stealing packages from you.

    So it seems like something that would be very welcome to people living in apartments (and one reason why I would not choose to live in an apartment building again).

    Now I would also add extra internal cameras that Amazon could not control the footage captures from..

  • And because delivery drivers are contractors (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Sebby ( 238625 ) on Saturday July 24, 2021 @09:07PM (#61617377)

    Amazon won’t be liable, because they’re not employees.

    What could possibly go wrong?

  • Let Uncle Jeff's delivery slaves into your toilet area, ehm, lobby... They're just here to leave a "package".

    https://nypost.com/2019/07/23/... [nypost.com]

    • So glad I live in the suburbs. Y'all can have your big cities and your millions upons millions stacked into a small space. No thanks.

  • Privatizing the USPS (Score:5, Interesting)

    by larwe ( 858929 ) on Saturday July 24, 2021 @09:19PM (#61617411)

    They keep trying to push the consumer version of this service to me, since I own a connected lock (whether that lock is installed on a door that might be useful for the Key service is a separate matter :)

    What this is doing is, de facto, creating a private delivery network that has analogous privileges to the USPS. The USPS has exclusive access to homeowner mailboxes and multi-tenant mailboxes; it's against the law [for Depression-era financial reasons] for anyone to manipulate a mailbox (including putting something in it) except the USPS and the homeowner. No private carrier has any similar protected space. With this Key system, if widely adopted, Amazon has a compelling business advantage over other parcel and letter carriers. When you combine that with Ring and other surveillance footage integrated with the delivery process, you have an advantage over _all_ other people in the market.

    • While that is true for USPS boxes, there's nothing preventing Fedex/UPS/Amazon from making individual deals with apartment complexes to have their own box systems that aren't "post office boxes".

      Hell, in the military the "post office" on base takes all packages addressed for residents, which they can then pick up from there.

      In some apartments, they can have a little mail room(we're talking packages, not letters, so a mailbox isn't appropriate), where the doorman or other aide stores packages until the resid

      • While that is true for USPS boxes, there's nothing preventing Fedex/UPS/Amazon from making individual deals with apartment complexes to have their own box systems that aren't "post office boxes".

        Complexes with enough deliveries already have them.

        Hell, in the military the "post office" on base takes all packages addressed for residents, which they can then pick up from there.

        Yes, and it is integrated with the USPS specifically for handling military mail.

  • Amazon wants a "proctoscope" system to sniff your butt. Amazon needs to know.

  • I wonder, do USPS, or private services like UPS or FedEx have something similar? I know the USPS has exclusive access to apartment mailboxes, but what about parcel delivery? Do they have a key to get into the building to deliver parcels and packages? If not, why should Amazon? And if they do, then why not Amazon?

    • We really didn't have these problems. Why? Because deliveries were dropped off at the head office. How would we know? Back in the day it was a note on the door. Currently it's a text message. Either way theft wasn't a problem. USPS had big parcel boxes to drop things off and left the key in your mailbox.

    • In my neighborhood, you give the delivery drivers gate codes (or drop box codes), or you have it on the package label. With most systems it is easy enough to program in one-time codes. Far from perfect, but it does the job well enough that it is fine. (Of course, you should always have an independent camera system.)

  • i don't understand (Score:3)

    by znrt ( 2424692 ) on Saturday July 24, 2021 @10:16PM (#61617535)

    leaving the packages outside is the problem, of course they may be stolen. i don't really understand how amazon created this problem in the first place.

    where i live any package (including amazon's) will be handed off only to me and nobody else unless i specifically allow that. if i'm not at home i will be notified and the delivery will be rescheduled or i might pick it up at a distribution center, simple as that.

    • Because it's much cheaper to not have to reschedule but to deliver at the exact time of their convenience.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by znrt ( 2424692 )

        well, they must be still making a profit this way, because that's how they operate here and have been for quite a while. that's why i don't understand: how do they get away with this crap over there? precisely in the "land of suing people for anything"! (no offense! :O)) they should sue them for every package stolen because that's their problem, end of story, instead of giving them access to their friggin homes. it's just creepy.

  • may be a good idea in theory but just because a driver comes up clean in a background check does not mean they are honest. It just means they have not been caught.

    There just has to be a better way to deliver and receive packages without having to drive to a local pickup point, without having to worry about porch pirates, without having neighbors seeing what you are getting and more. If only there was transporter technology to beam the package into the home.

  • We laughed at our amazon driver who asked. (Score:3)

    by Revek ( 133289 ) on Saturday July 24, 2021 @10:47PM (#61617587)
    He wanted a keyfob because the UPS guy arrived when he was there one day and let himself in with the one we gave him. Same as the fedex driver who had asked before we laughed and said no. We have had the same UPS driver since before I worked there. We know his name and he know ours. Amazon like fedex switches drivers up often and if they think we are going to give access to our facility to some unknown random stranger they are delusional.

  • Australian Post Office (Score:3)

    by The Evil Atheist ( 2484676 ) on Saturday July 24, 2021 @11:39PM (#61617649)
    In Australia, if they can't deliver your parcel, they leave it with the nearest Post Office.

    What kind of backwards shithole country is the US that they don't have post offices? How do you like your freedom of your tax not going to the postal service, and the freedom for an unaccountable corporation, with a history of sketchy practices, into your building?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by redback ( 15527 )

      In Australia Amazon uses the post office to send items.

      In the US they have their own drivers.

    • In Australia, if they can't deliver your parcel, they leave it with the nearest Post Office.

      In the Netherlands they leave it at your neighbour and only return to the post office if they can't find any of your immediate neighbours willing to take it for you. But back when I lived in Australia I didn't have very fond memories of actually trying to get to my local post office before closing hours.

      Just double checked, yep, still a 9-5 operation on weekdays. I would prefer literally *any* other location to leave the parcel. I didn't have a side gate so with great success I instructed drivers to leave t

    • That's strange, I'm in the US and I see "US Post Office" buildings all over my city.

      Unless those buildings are just breaucratic offices where the people who regulate sign posts work in.

  • Amazon Lockers On Premise (Score:3)

    by apenzott ( 821513 ) on Sunday July 25, 2021 @12:44AM (#61617735)
    Why doesn't Amazon reach out to the larger apartment complexes and negotiate to place some Amazon Lockers next to the clustered mailboxes. I am sure that the landlord/superintendent would be happy to let Amazon rent access to this shared space.

  • Amazon packages are delivered by USPS or UPS

    • Amazon Flex is Amazon's cost controlling measure. UPS/FedEx/USPS cost maybe around $11 to deliver a package. Amazon Flex drivers cost $0.50 per package once it's in their hands. (So some small cost to fly it to the local depo also.) Those drivers really are selling themselves short. ($0.50/package comes from $60.00 per route and around 120 packages on a route. Also, Amazon can cram a few items per package, so the per item cost might be even less.)

  • "The company has already installed the device in thousands of U.S. apartment buildings but declined to give a specific number..."

    Going back to TFS title, the hell do you mean Amazon WANTS Apartment buildings to install this? Looks like they're not asking, they're DOING.

    Anyone else getting sick and tired of Amazon acting like an untouchable government entity? "declined to give a specific number" is civilian-speak for "cannot confirm nor deny" and you citizens know it.

    And don't give me this "we need competition" bullshit. Amazon bought and destroyed all of that. They're far too powerful now to even think about putting up that lame

    • Don't forget that Disney has a fucking *AMBASSADOR* (titled "department of government relationships" IIRC) which I saw mentioned here on /. about 20 years ago.

      If you are rich enough in this country, you can do anything.

  • Why not integrate with that.. This can't possibly be a new problem.
  • Nor any feeling underpaid, so I can't anticipate anything going wrong. Just like with our police, they would be immune to getting paid off. But all kidding aside, I live in an apartment complex, one with eight units per building, and Amazon's drivers either get inside quickly/get someone to come to the door, or they leave their deliveries by the door. Either way, it takes about the same length of time. Having a key would only save them a few seconds.

  • ...Amazon pays for a series of tubes ...

  • Add this kind of access to the electronic access called Sidewalk which slashdot also hates... and now we've got tracking on the guy who walks in and has a package, and make sure he gets out in a reasonable amount of time.

  • Sure, no problem. You want a key? No problem, just rent an apartment here.

    • Careful what you wish for, they may turn it into a package relay station. Be glad most (any?) apartments are not zoned for commercial use.

  • A lockbox bolted to the floor which can only be opened by the Amazon employee and the customer.

    May not be doable in every situation, but this is a much better solution than giving someone who is not a tenant access to the building, or your house.

  • You know what would fix this? If, instead, the people who ordered something go to a nearby storage location where their items are kept, to be retrieved whenever they want. They could even pay for them at that point. Hmm, perhaps we could call it a "store".

  • The real problem is they continually push and push for every possible second they think they can theoretically shave off of a process, in the name of "maximized efficiency". Every delivery service ever had no problem getting people their packages in a timely manner by using the standard method of going up to a door and ringing the doorbell or knocking.

    In fact, a large number of packages are simply left at the door, if the sender didn't request a signature or other "proof of delivery".

    I was leaving my work

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