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Comment Re: I see cargo installers everywhere lately (Score 1) 170

Hey if you get butturth about being called out for bullshit then maybe don't spew bullshit?

What are you talking about? You're the one taking personal offense to what I'm saying about a nearly 50 year-old programming language.

Here, go read this guy's comments about C++.

https://drewdevault.com/2019/0...

And this guy's:

https://www.reddit.com/r/learn...

Let me guess, they're rust fanbois too? Lol.

Hey fanboi, none of those people are me.

Did you notice that and tell a bunch of lies or are you having real trouble grasping the concept that different people exist?

Nope, I'm just playing by the same rules you substandard programmers come up with.

I'm your previous post.

No, you're not. And no, I didn't. Go quote it again and I'll repeat what I said earlier.

No,, my dude. The guys a fuckwit, like you, so you're part of the same club as him.

No, I have nothing at all in common with him. You're both part of the substandard programmer club. You both love shitty programming languages. You're a douchebag, and he's a deutschbag. You may as well go have sex with him.

Comment Re: He's Not Wrong. (Score 1) 236

I never said it was, I just like watching you CCP apologists react. How is ol' Pooh bear, by the way?

You know what the problem with the American auto industry is? The it knows that no matter how much crap it produces, the US government will bail it out. That, and the UAW, who likes to brag about the "quality" work it does, and every car model that they claim to make are literally at the bottom end of consumer reports reliability scores. Then both think they need tariffs to protect them when in reality tariffs only protect complacency. Well, Trump gave them that, and now they wonder why they can't compete on the global economy, which is where most of their sales always came from.

I've been saying exactly this for decades. Right here on slashdot even, while you guys sat here in denial. Especially the Bernie bros, who were shouting from the rooftops demand tariffs. Unions and carmakers finally got their tariffs, for all the good that did them.

Of course, it doesn't help that the Chinese government is blatantly dumping, just like they did with rare earth metals. Disagree? Then feel free to explain zero mileage used cars.

Comment Re: I see cargo installers everywhere lately (Score 1) 170

That's a lot of words for "yes". If you like trolling some group who likes something different from you that's pretty much the definition of "obnoxious fanboi".

Waah. Complain to Ofcom that somebody caused you offense on the internet.

Hint: the reason you can't actually link to such as post is because it doesn't exist.

You mean like this?

https://developers.slashdot.or...

No inheritance is a feature, not a bug. Shit, you guys don't even understand your own language, nevermind rust:

https://slashdot.org/comments....

Such a quotable comment: "C++ compilers already enforce lifetimes. It's called RAII. The exact same thing that Rust uses."

QED

>>> C++ is only good for bugs
>> Yeah but half the Rust compiler is in C++
> BuT tHaT dOeSnT cOuNt

Where did I say it doesn't count? If you make a stupid comment, get a stupid reply.

You're as bad as angelosphere with your almost religious ignoring of material reality.

He's part of your club dude. You started a game of "you're one of those guys!" and now you want to pin one of your own on me? Nope.

Comment Re: mill (Score 3, Insightful) 139

That's the thing with this state, all you ever hear is republican this, republican that, or equally bad, focusing solely on the federal government. Things that have next to nothing to do with what's right in front of you. Nobody in this state seems to realize just how much of what they perceive to be bad about America are really just local issues totally under the control -- nay, auspices -- of local politicians.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=gM...

Whatever, won't be my problem anymore soon enough.

Comment Re: Rust is a specialist language (Score 2) 170

I didn't say it can't be done. Not at all. Rather, I'm telling you to do it so you can see how much harder it is to do things like this in other languages, even "easy" languages are going to take you longer to write it in, even when you have the benefit of already knowing what the end result is supposed to look like. And it would take you even longer just to reach performance parity, assuming you even can manage it at all.

Disagree? Feel free to prove me wrong.

Comment Re:Rust is a specialist language (Score 1) 170

I have had students work with rather large Perl scripts I wrote and they all remarked how clear and easy things were. It can be done.

When students are first introduced to C++, they say the same thing about classes. But when you do it long enough, you start finding out that if you want code that is actually easy to reason about while being more performant, C++ starts to look a lot more like C.

https://youtu.be/NWMx1Q66c14?t...

https://imgflip.com/i/ap481a

Comment Re:Rust is a specialist language (Score 1) 170

The difference is that they do it by putting everything on the heap and relying on a garbage collector to manage it.

Which doesn't work well for concurrency, especially when you need to mutate data. Everything will look like you did it right, right until the moment that it bombs out with a runtime error.

But it all goes away as soon as the stack frame exits, requiring a whole sub-language for managing lifetimes and borrowing.

When I first started with rust, those were a bit intimidating. But now? I barely notice it. The only time I ever have to really think about it is if I need to be zero copy for some reason, which I rarely need. And that generally comes in the form of thinking differently about how you pass references, particularly when it comes to returning references from a function, THEN you need to think about lifetimes, but even then, only a little. In 99% of the cases, it can be satisfied by doing nothing more than adding 'a to one of the references you brought in, as well as the one you pass out.

But I've gotten used to simply not returning pointers at all in most cases, and without resorting to e.g. clone, which I go out of my way to avoid, often times just to see if I can rather than for any performance gain.

Besides, it doesn't feel like a sublanguage to me at all, it just feels like annotating it. Rather, the sublanguage would be rust's macros, which I still haven't really mastered, though I have written a few.

That... has not been my experience. How often do you have to resort to a RefCell because, even though you know perfectly well that your mutable reference will only modify one field of an object that the immutable reference never looks at, the borrow checker isn't smart enough to figure that out?

Honestly? I haven't. The only time I've ever used refcell was because I had a vector of bytes that lived inside one particular enum variant, and I needed to periodically append to it to while parsing other data, which sometimes ended up in other variants of that same enum. Then after that particular struct was done, insert it into a btreemap, (thus transfering ownership) before later reading it again and moving the data out of that vector for serializing into a binary file. I don't know whether this would be memory safe without a refcell or reference counting, but it doesn't matter because the performance hit is basically nothing. Eventually I added concurrency to this code, and that rc refcell became an arc rwlock. Regardless, rust took all of the work out of having to analyze and re-analyze whether what I was doing was safe, while still being fast as hell.

Comment Re: I see cargo installers everywhere lately (Score 1) 170

You're pretty much the poster child for obnoxious Rust fanboi.

No, I just love trolling obnoxious C++ fanbois. Because as you've just remembered, they're super easy to trigger.

It's funny, you guys keep coming here trying to explain what's wrong with rust, in the process making it obvious that you don't even know anything about the language. What were your words on this subject? Something like "watered down object model"? Or something stupid like that because you don't know how to solve any problem that isn't easily modeled with inheritance, which is...basically everything. Though I'll admit, you're marginally better than angle of sphere of the linkedlist, which is a pretty low bar. Though you're probably a step below the evil atheist, who literally believes that the unsafe keyword disables all the safety features of the language when it only meaningfully turns off just one, namely being able to dereference raw pointers.

You do know a significant amount of the Rust compiler infrastructure is in C++, right?

Oh, that's just the ass end of the compiler. But you like eating ass, so of course it's significant to you.

Comment Re: I see cargo installers everywhere lately (Score 1) 170

C++ has not at all died and has been increasing in enterprise business usage, mostly at the loss of Java and C# code. Also it's been growing in popularity in embedded usage.

Why the fuck did your industry start charging money for checked bags? That's so god-damn annoying.

Comment Re:Rust is a specialist language (Score 1) 170

I completely agree with this. Rust is for when you want to get the absolute fastest performance possible, and you're willing to put in extra work to get it.

That would make it no different from C, and only much better than C++ in terms of both performance and maintaining one's sanity.

Rust is going to seem like a lot of work to people just starting out with the language, but after a while you'll find you're as productive as even dynamic scripting languages like python, if not more so due to reduced need for debugging/testing. The advantage python has is a shorter learning curve, but it lets you get away with things that no sane person should ever consider doing.

I've worked in a lot of languages, and Rust is probably the single most challenging one to use. It forces you to constantly deal with issues that don't exist in other languages.

Possibly, but it also lets you completely sidestep other issues you constantly deal with in other languages. But even then I'd say...there aren't really any issues that I constantly deal with in rust. After a while you barely even notice the borrow checker is there, only on the occasion when you make a mistake, which other languages simply allow you to do and don't say anything. The borrow checker mainly only comes into play when you're doing concurrency, and when you're doing that, it's a godsend. No debugging or unit testing required, (unless you're doing some downright crazy stuff with mutexes, which rust's borrow checker really helps you avoid using at all.) though it's always good to do the latter after you're done so that future changes don't break past assumptions. Either way, the specific code you're working on isn't going to crash and burn on this revision.

I tend to already know in advance what my code is going to look like just as my fingers hit the keyboard without any real planning required. Once you know what you're supposed to do and what you're not supposed to do, the other dominos just fall into place. Then after a while you start to realize that you don't even need to know in advance what kind of exceptions you need to handle or whether to check if a pointer is null, because the function signature alone already tells you that. If you use rust-analyzer, it tells you that while you're writing it even if you don't know what the function signature is. No overloading also means that passing different types doesn't suddenly change the behavior.

When you're coming from other languages it's pretty jarring in a lot of ways. For one thing, if your code compiles after a long session of banging at the keyboard nonstop, it's probably going to run exactly the way you intended it to. Rust's semantics are THAT good.

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