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AI

2-Acre Vertical Farm Run By AI and Robots Out-Produces 720-Acre Flat Farm (intelligentliving.co) 267

schwit1 quotes Intelligent Living: Plenty is an ag-tech startup in San Francisco, co-founded by Nate Storey, that is reinventing farms and farming. Storey, who is also the company's chief science officer, says the future of farms is vertical and indoors because that way, the food can grow anywhere in the world, year-round; and the future of farms employ robots and AI to continually improve the quality of growth for fruits, vegetables, and herbs. Plenty does all these things and uses 95% less water and 99% less land because of it.

Plenty's climate-controlled indoor farm has rows of plants growing vertically, hung from the ceiling. There are sun-mimicking LED lights shining on them, robots that move them around, and artificial intelligence (AI) managing all the variables of water, temperature, and light, and continually learning and optimizing how to grow bigger, faster, better crops. These futuristic features ensure every plant grows perfectly year-round. The conditions are so good that the farm produces 400 times more food per acre than an outdoor flat farm.

Another perk of vertical farming is locally produced food. The fruits and vegetables aren't grown 1,000 miles away or more from a city; instead, at a warehouse nearby. Meaning, many transportation miles are eliminated, which is useful for reducing millions of tons of yearly CO2 emissions and prices for consumers. Imported fruits and vegetables are more expensive, so society's most impoverished are at an extreme nutritional disadvantage. Vertical farms could solve this problem.

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2-Acre Vertical Farm Run By AI and Robots Out-Produces 720-Acre Flat Farm

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  • by klipclop ( 6724090 ) on Sunday December 27, 2020 @07:21PM (#60870652)
    I'm sure they use way less fertilizer and pesticides as a result. Which is also a big win.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      Yup, if it were true. They are significantly silent about the energy use of this setup.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by srmalloy ( 263556 )
        They're also going hard and heavy on the "two acres of vertical farm vs. 720 acres of conventional farm", but nothing in the blurb or in TFA does it say how high the plant rigging is. It's the same sort of lying-by-omission as saying that your beehive will produce a gallon of honey over a summer in an area of four square feet, while ignoring the fact that the hive has 32 four-square-foot racks of honeycomb. What is the surface area of each vertical 'growing face', and how does the total growing surface comp
        • It also doesnt compare apples to apples, so to speak. They are growing something called "food" apparently, not peppers, or potatoes, or corn, .. but what are they compared to? farms the grow, peppers, potatoes, corn..
          • by pellik ( 193063 )
            Their use case for AI doesn't make any sense either. We don't need a black box solution trying to optimize plant growth when we already understand exactly how the plants work. They would only look to AI for it's buzz. The whole thing is probably just a scam to get investment funding.
            • I've seen some interesting experiments to change lighting profiles to generate different flavor profiles. An AI might be able to improve on that, although I don't know if the data collection/iteration is sufficiently quick to feed modern AI

        • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Monday December 28, 2020 @08:33AM (#60872018) Homepage Journal

          They're also going hard and heavy on the "two acres of vertical farm vs. 720 acres of conventional farm", but nothing in the blurb or in TFA does it say how high the plant rigging is. It's the same sort of lying-by-omission as saying that your beehive will produce a gallon of honey over a summer in an area of four square feet, while ignoring the fact that the hive has 32 four-square-foot racks of honeycomb.

          You're acting like you've found a gotcha, but this is not an "aha" moment. This is a "who the fuck cares" moment. They aren't claiming to reduce farming volume, they are claiming to reduce farming area. And since farming area is what's decreasing, and also what's in short supply in urban areas, that's what's actually relevant.

          Vertical farming lets us take spaces which are already tall, namely unused warehouses (which are unused because cities have expanded to encompass them) and use them for food production in a way that not only results in fresher produce being located where people want to consume it, but also reduces farming emissions — both in transport and in production. California is the only state which even slightly tries to control emissions of farm equipment, and even we don't do a good job of it.

  • by dsgrntlxmply ( 610492 ) on Sunday December 27, 2020 @07:31PM (#60870678)
    I made a guess, closed my eyes, and clicked the link. There it was, exactly as I guessed: kale. Why, oh why?
  • This must be the most pointless project I have read about in a long while. Vertical means they can only do the feather weight stuff. 100 flavours of lettuce, that's it. Just stack horizontally, which has been done for decades by the way.
  • by walkerp1 ( 523460 ) on Sunday December 27, 2020 @07:39PM (#60870714)
    It sounds good on paper, but you're still paying 15x the price of 2D-grown lettuce; however, I'm sure it appeals to a segment of the population since it has a lot of other features that I don't consider when buying produce. I wonder how the production costs compare to traditionally-grown produce.
    • Well I mean it's possible that down the road this technology might be able to reduce the production costs to something on par or cheaper than traditional methods. It's POSSIBLE, not a sure thing by any means. Let's see how it turns out.

    • by flatt ( 513465 ) on Monday December 28, 2020 @04:30AM (#60871626) Journal

      It sounds good on paper, but you're still paying 15x the price of 2D-grown lettuce

      We've seen how this works before. A state will start subsidizing the creation of these vertical farms until the consumer cost of the food coming out of them is the same as a traditional farm. This will happen quickly because those subsidies will be funded by a new tax that only affects traditional farms. After enough vertical farms are built, the government will set a mandate all traditional farms be phased out within X years (because traditional farms are suddenly bad/unethical/immoral/whatever). Once that deadline approaches, the vertical farm subsidies will be dropped and the food costs will still be many times that which was coming out of the traditional farms. The variety of crops grown will be reduced substantially because it is found out that many do not perform well in vertical farms but are suddenly too expensive/illegal to grow traditionally.

      If you dare question whether any of this even makes sense, or are just not entirely lockstep with this plan, they will attempt to publicly sham you with whatever "-ist" word is the cause du jour. They will call it, "progress."

    • by zmooc ( 33175 ) <zmooc@@@zmooc...net> on Monday December 28, 2020 @04:32AM (#60871632) Homepage

      That's because the climate and environmental impact of 2D-grown lettuce is not included in the price but it is in the 3D-farm-price. We're giving away our planet for free to farmers, loggers and oil behemoths and get cheap food in return. Let's hope 2D-grown lettuce one day becomes as expensive as it should be.

  • Ever been down to see Greygarden? I heard the whole place is run by robots. Now isn't that something?

  • by stuff-n-things ( 89988 ) on Sunday December 27, 2020 @07:53PM (#60870750) Homepage

    "society's most impoverished are at an extreme nutritional disadvantage. Vertical farms could solve this problem." How? By putting at least some of them out of work, and letting them eat the technocrat's food scraps?

  • Thats the way to grow food on Mars too. They should see if Elon wants to buy them.

    • I'd be really ok with Elon moving to Mars. Or even better, Uranus, a place where his asshattery would go completely unnoticed. I understand that there is no covid pandemic on Uranus, and no pesky unions.

  • Aren't these almost as productive, with just as low water/pesticide/fertilizer use? And don't they cost much less and use far far less electricity?

    Of course, you don't get a "tech multiple" with your IPO on a greenhouse farming company.

  • by SETY ( 46845 ) on Sunday December 27, 2020 @08:34PM (#60870822)

    Grow kale indoors... fine.

    Now let’s grow soybeans? Say an acre of land is $10k and has free light and water and you get 60 bushels an acre of bean yield.
    What’s a building water and power for light cost? Warehouse is 20$ a square foot by 43500 for an acre, $870k.
    Now assume you can stack soybeans which grow 3’ or so 3 times in your warehouse. Assume you can get three crops a year. ( maybe a bit low, but soybeans are long season). Assume you get more yield, say 80 bushels.
    So 240x3 gets us 720 bushel an acre yield or more than 10 times.

    Unfortunately warehouse costs are 87 times higher and you have to pay for water and light.

    Do city folk have no concept on how food is made?

    • and not about being economical. It's an experiment to grow food with a limited labor supply.
    • So you've assumed you can't build the vertical farm higher than one story, and that transportation from a dirt farm is free.

      Do country folk have no idea how food is made?

    • by MacMann ( 7518492 ) on Sunday December 27, 2020 @11:13PM (#60871100)

      Do city folk have no concept on how food is made?

      No. These are the same people that think we can produce electricity from "agricultural waste". What "agricultural waste"? You mean like corn stalks? They must think farmers harvest corn and soybeans and then have to haul away all the stalks to a landfill or something. There's no "agricultural waste". The people that believe that there's all kinds of "agricultural waste" to burn for fuel will at least clam to have a bachelor of science degree from some university. You ask if these people do the math. They don't. I suspect that they couldn't if they tried.

      I'm no farmer but I've talked to some during my life. I learned something a while back, there is no crop that is grown to produce straw. By that I mean straw is not a kind of crop or plant. There is no "straw plant" like there is a corn plant, soybean plant, or wheat plant. Straw is the stuff left over from harvesting corn, soybeans, or wheat. Well, straw is only straw if it is taken from the field to make straw hats or baskets. If it's left in the field then I think that they call it "humus". The stalks and leaves from a cereal crop like corn and wheat is mostly left in the field to control erosion, keep nutrients in the soil for the next crop, and other benefits. Some of this straw will be used to make overpriced hats and baskets for city people to hang on walls and put on shelves to get a "country look" for their overpriced city dwellings.

      I say we ask these university educated morons where we will get the electricity for these vertical farms. If they answer "solar power" then I'm going to have to do all I can to not instinctively punch them in the face. Solar power? To keep the lights on in a vertical farm? I thought you said you went to school.

      Do people do the math on where the calcium in milk comes from? The calcium comes from the cow, the cow that produced the milk. Where does the cow get the calcium? From the plants it eats. Where does the plant get the calcium? From the dirt. Okay, one more question, what happens to the dirt if there are plants grown in the same dirt year after year? The answer is that it runs out of calcium. Farmers pay people a lot of money to mine calcium, normally as an oxide, to then haul it to their fields and spread it out for the crops.

      These vertical farms will need a lot of electricity, a lot of water, and a lot of dirt. There will be claims that these vertical farms don't need dirt. They will need dirt. Special kinds of dirt, but still dirt dug up out of the ground. Dirt with calcium in it, and iron, magnesium, selenium, zinc, manganese, molybdenum, and so on. I didn't learn this from some university educated moron. I learned this from geniuses that grow our food, some of which had not even graduated from high school. They did the math on this, they had to or they would have gone out of business.

      Solar power is a waste of area that we could use to grow something. And before anyone asks, I do mean to include your roof. If you are going to spend the money on solar panels for your roof to save on electricity, twice over apparently because the solar panels lower heating to the home from the sun and therefore lower air conditioning demand, then you are likely another university educated moron

      This world needs fewer university educated morons and more high school educated geniuses. These morons are going to starve us all with their plans to feed the world.

    • WTF kind of warehouse are you renting. Just googling it gives 85c a month per square foot average, and that's a quote from a warehouse rental company. You're off by over a factor of ten times just in one part of your "math". You also totally forgot that with such an efficiency gain you'd have to rent less warehouse space for storage and shipping to begin with. You know, the very thing your model supposes as the biggest cost factor.
      • Warehouse costs can vary _incredibly_ dramatically.

        My company bought a 75,000 square foot warehouse a few years back. It's ~20 years old, partially electrified, no heating/cooling (2,000 sq ft heated/cooled office area) and we paid a bit over $1 million. Roughly $14/sq foot to buy. New construction costs even more.

        If you want conditioned space--and as I understand it, LED grow light operations on this scale require cooling, and you of course need heating to stop from freezing, etc., and build costs go up dr

        • Varies a lot by location also. It is not necessarily true that inner cities have the cheapest costs. They often seem to on the surface, but once you factor in things like costs to remediate lead, asbestos, and other contamination, the costs of security, high taxes, payoffs to keep city services working reliably, constant repairs to hundred year old foundations and roofs, frequent power outages, and countless other items of similar nature, many business find it way cheaper and less hassle to do business el

  • greens only (Score:5, Informative)

    by hdyoung ( 5182939 ) on Sunday December 27, 2020 @08:38PM (#60870834)
    I took a look at their website. "Fruits and vegetables" seems to be a bit of an exaggeration. "salad greens and herbs for rich people" would be a much more accurate description. Plants that are small, fast-growing, and basically edible weeds, that happen to have a very high market value when fresh.

    And very little energy content, when you get right down to it. I think that actual fruits and grains are going to be MUCH harder because of the enormous amount of energy and biomass required. Slower growing as well.

    Don't get me wrong. I applaud this sort of thing. Strategies like this should be implemented where economical, and they should be researched to push them further. But I'll be honestly surprised if my flour, cornmeal, apples or raisins EVER come from an indoor-environment.

    If we ever wind up in space like in the science-fiction novels, we might get our greens from autofarming, but I'm pretty sure that most of our carbs and protein will be synthesized in a vat. Either by genetically modified microbes or just straight-forward chemistry.
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Dr. Tom ( 23206 )
      I think part of the problem is that they are forgetting how many beneficial microorganisms are in soil. Soil is alive, and it's a fundamentally necessary ingredient in growing a crop. So called "hydroponics" might produce a plant, but it will be missing many micronutrients --- much like we depend on our gut microbiome to help digest our food (your gut contains ten times more cells than the rest of your body, and they are not human cells). The soil microbiome is where plants evolved to grow. This has been se
    • by cusco ( 717999 )

      Naturally vining plants such as berries and tomatoes would seem to be a natural for this type of operation. (Actually a tomato is a berry.) Since berries ripen at different times rotating them past a picker repeatedly would make sense, so that each can be picked at its prime. Personally I would pay a hefty premium for actual ripe tomatoes rather than the nasty green things the supermarket have to carry because of the transportation time.

      Pro tip: if you grow tomatoes put your surplus in the freezer rather

  • Show me the money (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rbrander ( 73222 ) on Sunday December 27, 2020 @08:48PM (#60870848) Homepage

    It's not the square inches per potato that counts, but the dollars per potato.

    • by marcle ( 1575627 )

      Exactery. Wake me up when this food is in the supermarket, at prices competitive with traditionally farmed food.

    • No it isn't. Unless you're a Ferengi.

      It's the micro-nutrients per potato.
      What good is a massive bag of water and starch if you can't digest it without getting sick or live off of it at all?
      (Hint: Vertical farms are notoriously bad at this. Even worse than the discount store water vegetables that taste of nothing. The damn things don't even get a soil biome anymore! Even though that is a key part of every plant. Like an external digestive system.)

      And it's the resource usage per micro-nutrients.
      But here, vert

      • > Exponential growth of the human population is the problem we need to fix, ASAP!

        Don't worry about this one. Education fixes it. The best models have humanity peaking at 11 Billion in the next few decades and then falling below present levels by 2200.

        • Well said.

          Other than sub-Saharan Africa, most of the globe is already basically flat on population growth. Large swathes of Europe (and Japan) are shrinking.

          I'm pretty much a diehard libertarian-capitalist type, but I can't see our current political-economic systems surviving periods of extended _global_ population decline. Europe and America have totally relied on artificial, aggregate economic growth from immigration to cover up many other issues.

          We've seen it in many cities in America today certainly man

    • > It's not the square inches per potato that counts, but the dollars per potato.

      Right. Note that land cost is part of the equation that determines the dollars per potato on the supply side. Nutrition will affect the demand side of those dollars too.

    • I calculate it using chips per potato.

  • Lots of companies push this, but they only grow the ideal crop: small salad greens that go from seed to market in 6 weeks. no roots/tubers (take too long), no fruits (takes too long and requires different wavelengths of light). The food they are selling is basically just green water: no fiber, no protein, no fat, and no calories. Plus the plans always seem to tout the retail price for heirloom organic baby arugula at Whole Foods when talking about THE AMAZING $$PROFIT$$, not the wholesale price Walmart pays
    • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      They might be growing the idea food crop, but it's far from the ideal crop.

      That would probably be marijuana, opium poppies, or maybe coffee or coca, except that they're a PITA. If you've got some objection to drugs, go with seasonal flowers/plants. Poinsettias, roses, etc.

  • by clawsoon ( 748629 ) on Sunday December 27, 2020 @09:41PM (#60870944)

    How much of the earth would you have to cover in solar panels in order to do a solar-powered version of this for the entire production of humanity's food?

    I'm assuming that with solar panel inefficiencies, transmission line inefficiencies, and LED inefficiencies, you'd need to cover much more land with solar panels for this than you would if you just planted the plants in the ground, but I haven't done the math on it. Would you end up with the earth so covered in solar panels that hardly any wild plants would have room to grow?

    • Don't forget that with artificial lights you can tune the spectra for the plant you are growing, e.g. put much less energy in green, and none in infrared. Also, if you grow the food near the people you reduce the transportation costs of the final product.

      • by cusco ( 717999 )

        Plus you can deliver actual ripe product. Most people have never actually eaten a ripe tomato.

    • by dmt0 ( 1295725 )

      How much of the earth would you have to cover in solar panels in order to do a solar-powered version of this for the entire production of humanity's food?

      5.4 times the amount of crop land:
      https://youtu.be/ISAKc9gpGjw?t... [youtu.be]

  • Everyone agreed that fattening up cows using underheated offal was a good idea - and perfectly safe. Intense prawn and fish farming using antibiotics in China etc. I know microbes build up, but sunlight and weather clean things naturally. So can UV lamps and ozone, but in a farm, this would rot plastic, possibly release cancerous plastic softeners. What could go wrong?
    • You mean aside from the metric fuckton (offical SI unit, I swear! ;) of radioactive cesium ejected by the coal power plants powering those lamps? :D

      I seriously hope they don't farm with plastics that use cancerous softeners.
      But usually, with such projects, I'm happy if they even use actual real soil at all.
      (Which is like the digestive system of the plant. With an entire biome specifically adapted to that plant, working in symbiosis with it. So no, putting roots in water is not the same.)

  • Aside from the almost complete lack of micro-nutrients in the crops from such farms usually produce,
    this obviously only works because it steals the light from neighbors whose land now is worse growing crops, or because they waste massive loads of energy on artificial lighting.

    Anyone with half a brain can see, that this won't work anymore when the farms are arranged like New York skyscrapers, where barely any light reaches you anymore unless you build even higher, and when energy is supposed to come from roo

  • by Guspaz ( 556486 ) on Sunday December 27, 2020 @10:39PM (#60871034)

    Is space really one of the primary issues with modern farming? This approach requires orders of magnitude more energy and cost than traditional farming, and doesn't work for most crops. And using solar power doesn't make it any more green: every watt of solar power used to counteract the wasteful vertical farming is a watt that could have been spent replacing coal.

    • A good bit of the formerly prosperous countryside in northeast Ohio (within say an hour of Cleveland, Akron, Canton, or Youngstown) appears to have been abandoned, or, at any rate, definitely not being used for farming, in spite of being really good farmland. Almost all of it was cornfields as recently as 15-20 years ago.

      I can't generalize to other areas but I can certainly say that around here, the availability of land for farming doesn't seem to be an issue. Of course, our cities are about half abandone

  • So, I understand one very important thing about normal outdoor in-ground farming. I'm not eating the potato. I'm eating the nutrients in the potato.

    Those nutrients came from the soil. From the insects that died, the worms that excreted, the minerals that flooded down from the mountain or up from the bedrock.

    Big or small, fast or slow, the potato doesn't matter. It's what's inside the potato that counts.

    So, if you're growing a potato indoors, in a desert, hanging from the ceiling, please tell me: what am

    • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      The macronutrients come from the same place as they do in a dirt farm: mostly the air. Those are the protein, sugar and whatever more complex things the plant makes out of sugar.

      Micronutrients, plus some bits and bobs needed for the sugars and protein, are added in the fertilizer. This is also the same on a dirt farm, although the exact process may be different. One of the problems with the dirt farm is that a lot of the fertilizer you spread on it washes or blows away, while you can make very efficient use

  • Can't wait to see how they grow corn in that vertical gizmo.
    • Corn can grow there if genetically modified to be really short plants, or the stem only cultured (with normal size cob).

  • by Baby Duck ( 176251 ) on Monday December 28, 2020 @12:43AM (#60871308) Homepage
    What is the energy cost for powering the robotic arms, compute of the AI, and shining the LEDs? What is the environmental impact of replacing massive arrays of LEDs and robotic parts when they wear out? They should look into piping in sunlight with massive fiber optic cables, like Japan did in the early 1980s.
  • Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday December 28, 2020 @01:02AM (#60871354)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

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