I'll wager that just like all other things Microsoft, updates will render it inoperable.

That's why Windows 10 is stable now.

I can't argue with the premise- you are correct, most people will buy a computer, and never change. That's because they do email, a few documents, and browse the web.

However, there is a non-zero chance that the people who don't give a fsck will not be all that happy when a Windows update scrags frags and bags their computer. And therein lies the issue. They might at that point, and even Microsoft admits W11 has a big problem.

Yes, I and some others do a lot more with our computers than the bog standard user. So we "stress" the computer a bit. And Windows 11 is simply and provably not up to the task. It doesn't play well with audio devices. It creates computers that won't allow you to log in, while serving up ads on the login screen. It has problems with some USB drivers for non- bog standard applications. It can place program files or at least their accessory files on onedrive, which screws up the program. I have had all of those things with Windows 11.

I'm at the point where with one critical Windows only application, I have a copy on a second computer, that never goes on the internet except for updates about every 6 months, during a lull in tasking. Some Operating System where you have to keep Microsoft away from it.

But it is not irresponsible or geekish to ask why MacOS continues to work after updates. And despite bog standard people don't give a fsck, They might not be all that pleased when they can't do anything on their computer.

Yeah, there is a factor of people hating change.

But unless you are living under a rock, all is not well in Windows land. Now for you, it might be perfection, never one p[roblem, a true zenith of computing perfection.

That said, even Microsoft admits it is problematic (a polite word for a disaster) https://techcommunity.microsof.... https://www.windowslatest.com/...

I had my work laptop borked with that September update, killed the camera - no face login, wouldn't accept the PIN, wouldn't accept the password, and wouldn't let me change. Not all was lost however - it served up ads on the login screen.

Took my IT guy almost a week to get it operating again. Still has problems with onedrive and Teams.

I teach classes in Digital radio communications. During Windows 7 days, after the first two sessions, everyone's radio computer, and peripherals like USB-Serial adapters and outboard sound cards and CAT control was working. Then we'd spend the rest of the classes on the software.

Windows 10 days - it took a little longer, like 3 sessions. Windows 10 had some audio issues, but they settled down after a few updates - note, Microsoft fixed the issues

Then my Windows 11 class of early this year. We never got to the software deep dive, because few had their equipment running long enough to get to that deep dive. What was running one day, was wrecked by an update. So there was no one class where everyone was properly working.

Pissed off Students, pissed of teacher. Since the software I was teaching also runs on Linux and MacOS, I started secretly using My Mac to teach the class.

We ended the classes early. I had a meeting with the Students via Zoom. What to do? I suggested "Why not try Linux?" So we talked about dual booting, or if they had an old laptop laying around. So I told everyone we'd be starting over, using Linux Mint. Get Mint running, then new classes.

The end result? Fixing a few issues students had during the first class, then the deep dive. These are smart guys and gals. They raced through the syllabus. This class ended early too, but not because the computers didn't run, but because we reached the end of the syllabus.

Your gamer straw man is interesting, and truly I don't care if the only people left using W11 is gamers. The OS has a documented path of disaster, and it is hard to come up with a use case for non-functional computers.

So your professed rational hatred of capitalism, which we don't have in the US is on somehow topic? I responded to your incorrect notion, and your posing that you rationally hate capitalism. Every bit as offtopic

It is perhaps more likely that rather than me going off topic - as you claim I am - you are just pissed off because I said something you didn't like.

Point is, the USA is not a capitalist country. It is an amalgam of corporatism, and socialism, and a smattering of libertarian. You should know that.

Speaking of suggestions to poster to get a degree in economics - kind of amusing - I do remember an economist "expert" being interviewed on NPR shortly before the SHTF in 2007 claiming that the new normal was going to be people purchasing everything in the future by using their home equity, and their property would continue to gain value endlessly in the future. What the actual hell?

That is an equation that has infinity as the end result. I'm not a professional economist, but I do know a little math, and a solution that has infinity result is just wrong. So I'm not all that impressed by economists anyhow. Put three in a room, ask a question, and you'll get 4 different opposing answers. 8^)

Yeah - I do offroading, many times on dirt roads that have a hundred or more foot drop, if I stray too far. And too far isn't very far. Narrow enough that there is a schedule - on the half hour, go down, on the hour, go up. I'm certain these Waymo cars couldn't do that type driving. And I'm glad you wrote about it too, because someone will try to chime in that I'm talking an edge case. Well, if there are edge cases like your's and mine where we are better able to run them ourselves, then no, Waymo cars are definitively not better than human driven cars, unless they do that cherry picking. The cost of simple mistakes in some of my driving are immediate, deadly, and I always keep my life insurance updated.

BTW, I have most of the modern driving hardware on my Jeep already. Know what I do when one mistake will kill me? I turn them off, put it into 4-lo, traction control off, and enjoy the adrenaline rush.

Certainly at present, but the goal of eliminating humans from vehicles will mean that unless we can get people to travel at those urban speeds means the self driving cars will be going faster.

Exactly. The problem is that any pure 'ism will pretty quickly destroy itself - with one exception. Pragmatism. Pragmatism is not pure anyhow, it selects for what works. Not what it has been told should work.

Interesting you bring up China. Because they have been selecting bits here and there of what works. Just like we have done here.

The problem we have now in the US is that many people fell for believing what they heard. This has ended up punishing certain groups - like farmers, who are very conservative. But also have reaped much money reward from the farm bill, a completely socialistic bill, that even pays some for leaving their fields empty.

Along comes Trump and his merry band of crooks, telling the farmers and other groups that they are going to get rid of those people sucking up the tax dollars, or whatever these people want to hear, then wreck their celebration of "finally getting someone in Washington who will make America great again. Get rid of them ferners, and other BS. A very expensive lesson being learned, when people believe that incompetents who just figure out the soundbites, yet deliver nothing of substance, only failure.

Reminds me of the old Tea Party and one of their slogans that turned up from time to time at their rallies, "Keep Government's Filthy hands off my Medicare and Social Security!" The mid- to far right hates socialism except when their own socialism is cut, or that people cannot afford to buy their product, when tariffs reduce their foreign sales because other countries stopped buying their products.

So how do you feel about the economic structure of the USA. Because it is in no way, shape or form capitalism.

Usually, the statement "I hate capitalism" is a dog whistle for "I hate the USA." But that's a requirement here in slashdotland.

What we have here in the US is a number of different things, all layered together. We have socialism, where people with low incomes can get things like computers, cell phones, housing assistance, food assistance, immunizations, Special free food programs for women infants and children, heating oil assistance, free transportation for certain groups like elderly and poor, medicaid and others. Road clearing and repair for everyone. State parks - we have some real beauties here in PA, where BTW, EV chargers are being installed. Freaking awesome.

That is anti-capitalism. Closer to socialism. There is absolutely no profit in this. I generally support all of that.

There is a top layer of corporatism which is not capitalism. Sometimes people confuse that. There is a general propaganda fueled consensus that there are a few wealthy people here, the large majority are staving in the street, because capitalism.

But here's the catch. In order to provide the semi - socialistic products provided, there needs to be (cover the children's ears everyone) - money available to do that stuff.

So we have taxes. But you need profits to pay those taxes. In irony, much of the taxes comes from people who make a living from those corporations. Our corporatism fuels our socialism. The money has to come from somewhere.

And that was a big problem for the communists. Their people didn't make enough money to support the grand idea "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.

I would like to propose a question to the people who want to eliminate human drivers. Since humans are unsafe, and Waymo's are apparently the best thing since multiple orgasm, does it not follow that all safety equipment like seat belts, air bags, roll cages, crumple zones - the entire safety shebang should be eliminated? because apparently once we are all driving without a human having any control over the car, the number of accidents will be so low, as close to zero as is possible - that it makes no sense to have safety equipment, it will just be an added cost, without benefit, and never used. A human death will become national news.

City boy! Your stupid hick model is interesting. Meanwhile I travel a lot on back roads, and I come across a lot of people who drive 25 in a 45. 30 in a 55 zone.

Since I want to drive around the speed limit, these stupid hicks who drive like the devil is chasing them? They find a safe point to pull over. Then I wave to thank them, and they wave back.

Are there numbnut hicks that drive too fast? Sure there are those, but the countryside has no monopoly on that, just like they occasionally pull someone over for going 30 mph over the speed limit on 25 mph on my street. And I live 2 miles from the urban center of my city. And the pocket rocket riders who have wheelie challenges on the major artery through the city, and the tuner people who apparently are fantasizing they are in the Lemans.

Not one of them in the countryside, we're talking urbane, sophisticated people, not hicks.

Claims. Waymo is attempting to prove a negative. Giving an actual number of crashes with injuries they didn't have?

Seriously this on the same logic level of asking "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

What is more, they have achieved the amazing data of how many lives they have saved through hypothetical accidents that did not happen.

In the intel world, that is called not knowing what you do not know.

There is a solution to the human driver as the dealer of death, the incompetent that must be removed from anything to do with the car. My vehicle has all the safety items needed but the final step. It has emergency braking that works, blind spot sensors, collision and pedestrian avoidance and lane assist - just not the final step. Lane assist can't be used for self driving because it will ping pong you, but it will pull you away from the center or push you back from the side.

And it works. Though the first time it saved my ass it was scary just how well it worked. You do not want to forgoe seat belts in a car with collision avoidance brakes.

As a side note, my Mac just upgraded/updated to Golden Gate 27.0 from Tahoe. A huge upgrade. Unlike my Windows machines it is working 100 percent after the upgrade and updates.

I query the group. What is a better computer, a Windows machine you can't even log into and use (although you can see ads on teh login screen. Or a Mac that continues to function like before, only with improvements. And if you are on a hard deadline? This isn't about some obscure software that only runs on one or the other OS - that goes both ways. This is about a computer that functions.

Ah, you beat me to it. I just commented much the same, while catching up on posts, but your post was last night. But yes, this whole thing sounds like fixing a problem that doesn't exist, and making problems.

I dunno - could be my perspective. I use LO spreadsheets to make things clear not obfuscate them.