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Comment Re:dust (Score 1) 241

What happens when they get in a position of authority and results are expected?

They never actually made it that far. We had two who were worth anything, and one took a new job in another city, and the other one went on to get an advanced degree. Both young women by the way, and both excellent co-workers.

The vast majority discovered that you don't get a promotion for showing up on time, and unlike your parents, the older people at work weren't there to serve them, and they burnt out - and I kid you not - moved back in with Mom and Dad, in once case Grandma.

Comment Re:What w@nker thought this was a good idea?? (Score 1) 60

The UK is different, the donor has no legal obligations or right to access to the child.

A much more sensible situation. In the particular case I cited, the recipients, a same sex female couple, divorced, and there was a money problem, so they took the donor to court. Here the childs welfare is paramount, so men who are not even the father, and the child is a result of adultery, can be forced to pay child support, while the actual father does not. Kooky stuff.

And Kansas being Kansas, it is possible that it was an activist judge who just wanted to throw a spanner in th works for a double whammy of same sex couples, and dperm donors. So we get weird case law.

Some of the folks in Kansas are pretty biblical in outlook - although we'll ignore the part about taking one's widowed sister-in-law as an automatic wife, with all the in-person "donations" as a part of the deal.

Comment Re:dust (Score 1) 241

Next, try to explain the concept that work (for most people anyway) doesn't involve derping on your phone all day to a millennial. It is so strange seeing them in meetings, useless, eyes glazed, texting and snapchatting the day away.

The ones who worked with me considered Facebook to be a critical job skill. The smartphone addiction is so bad that they go through withdrwal worthy of a heroin addict if they can't have their phone for a minute.

Comment Re:What w@nker thought this was a good idea?? (Score 2) 60

They could make money providing vetting services. Provide medical checks for donors, and maybe STD checks for recipients if they plan to use the direct deposit method.

I think the legal grounds are a little murky. At least here in America, a sperm donor can be required to pay child support http://wthitv.com/2015/09/05/k...

And of course, since we sue the deepest pockets, the UberSplooge company would likely get somehow drawn into the donnybrook.

Child support can last past the age of majority as well, if the offspring goes to University. So while not all that likely, that donation could cost you plenty.

As well, n such a crowded world, its hard for at least me to justify such things, so if a person wants a child that badly, adopt.

Public service announcement: Its important to remember to use a condom folks - that's how we lost Freddy Mercury, and that's how we got Justin Bieber!

Comment Re:State sponsored corporate spies (Score 1) 459

So our final result is 2.62e16 / 8.77e23, or 1/3.35e7

one in 33 million isn't one in a billion, so I would also be interested in seeing their math, but the conclusion that the selection was biased seems to be fairly well supported.

The question is though, arr all of the applicants assumed to be equal in all qualifications? Have some come from a placement service like ITT? which has been discredited.

And like it or not, since we are dealing with Asians, have some been state sponsored? There are issues with organizations dealing with issues of a secure or sensitive issues and state sponsored foreign actors..

Mere numbers of applicants are not telling the entire story.

Comment Re:State sponsored corporate spies (Score 1) 459

Okay, I'll answer your question. The premise is ridiculous

Yes, or at least very unlikely. Narrow it to two people and it becomes more likely. But it was foremost a test case to get some active thought going. Separating a social goal from fairness on a personal level.

But for the sake of argument, let's say that is somehow the case. I'd probably pull a name out of a hat or something.

annnnnd..... You pass! Very good. In a problem with no good answer, no satisfactory solution that doesn't offend someone, no fairness to the individuals, you cast race and gender aside, and use plain random chance. Which of course is the only logical answer.

In a world of agendas, and people who are promoting their own agenda over other's agendas, and where rational thought is precious scarce, some times ya gotta just employ chance.

And I apologize for badgering ya (sincerely) but I do this kinda shit some times.

Comment Re:Who cares if they actually help (Score 1) 141

APPLE!

I guess all those studies saying these devices are actually counter productive don't matter when APPLE!

makes sense tho capitalism was always more important than science in the ol' US of A!

There is a much bigger picture here.

The damn things don't have to work at all. What they do is give teh company the ability to blame the victim when something bad happens to their health. It's a clever ploy actually

Comment Re:State sponsored corporate spies (Score 1) 459

What part of "fair" don't you understand?

Th e part where you define fair - Now define it. And I suppose that you aren't going to answer my question about who you are going to hire, the white woman, the African ethnicity of any gender, or the asian.

Tell me, since you are the one who clearly says I do not undertand "fair". TEach me, this might be th emoment where I gain some insight, and I would be forever grateful to be schooled in something I have no idea of.

You say you do.

So which one is it Animojo? Two of the three are not going to have a job, all are considered underrepresented, and you decide based on you knowing what is fair. Who gets the job, and who does not?

Comment Re:State sponsored corporate spies (Score 1) 459

A company should spend time looking at their affirmative action programs, not just metrics.

The deathstar problem is however, you get sued by the metrics. It's like the silly no child left behind schooling. Thy teach to the test, and only the test. If the kid actually lerns anything they don't give a damn. And if the test scores aren't good enough, the school is punished.

The metrics, as it were.

Comment Re:State sponsored corporate spies (Score 2) 459

Basically it comes down to having a responsibility to check for reasonable fairness and do something when it becomes apparent that there is an issue.

Fire the non-asian people? Make a ruling that no one but asians are hired until this fairness is achieved? What is fair? And then, what do we do about other groups that are underrepresented? Will there come a time when a white woman is not hired and is passed over by a asian male? Is that in keeping with the demands for inclusiveness?

That means collecting the stats and when you see something like this identifying the problem and taking steps to rectify it.

As I noted, since there is a multiplicity of demands for inclusiveness, that in order to comply with them, someone is going to lose based not on their ability to do the job, but where their anscesters came from.

It looks like the issue is understood, the lawsuit cites the reason why it is happening, so really there isn't much excuse for not fixing it.

Yes, eliminating networking, and hiring exclusively a particular enthinicity, as the overarching criteria of the job, perhaps fireing some, until the company reflect the proper diversity.

I don't know your ethnicity, but would you give up your job for hiring someone of a different ethnicity? I didn't give up my job, but I gave up three promotions so a woman could get promoted. There was a quota system on promotions, and I voluntarily gave up deserved promotions for a female. It didn't work out for the place, since they left. But I do understand that in real life, it isn't always fair.

As to how to fix it, use less recommendations and more objective hiring.

It's got nothing to do with quotas, they are a bad way to address the issue. That's why the only people who suggest them are people who oppose diversity. They are not needed here.

The problem is of course, that in a numbers or percentages based system, you have to deal with numbers as a measurement of success. Otherise you throw out all of the numbers altogether.

What you are suggesting if you use as little as possible a quota as possible, is that since a 75 percent figure was claimed as the asian applicants, with 21 positions filled, anything other than 15.75 asian hires is racist.I guess one of them has to be a pregnant female.

That would be accepting that entering an application makes all potential employees as qualified as each other. So 75 percent is an inviolable number, and must be adhered to, otherwise you will be sued.

And that, sir, would be the very definition of a quota.

Now we are going to get uncomfortable. Who gets a job between 3 equal candidates, a white woman, a non gender specific person of African descent, or an asian male? The implied inequality is simple when it's a male of European descent, let's just in this case discard those in order to avoid a lawsuit, because hiring one might put you over your limit. Not hiring the white male is an easy decision, but not so much when the underrepresented groups become pitted against each other. Challenge, make your choice of the first three. No need for your rationalization, just your choice. Who gets the job?

And no, Animojo, I don't oppose diversity, nor do I care for your implicit accusation that I do. I do however, not ascribe to simplistic ideas as to what constitutes diversity. My questions are uncomfortable, piss people off, and perhaps constitute a learning experience.

Comment Re:State sponsored corporate spies (Score 1) 459

They are not alleging active discrimination, they are saying that the company tended to go with personal recommendations which created unintentional bias. The company has a responsibility to ensure fairness.

How does one ensure "fairness"? Do the individual employees have to broaden their social circles to include more asians? Or is the referral system something to be eliminated? These really aren't trivial questions, as if the paramount goal is inclusiveness of all ethnicities, races, genders, sexual orientation, religion, and whatever else makes things "fair" is going to be almost impossible to coexist with a referral process that is based upon an employee's familiarity with a potential hire's suitability for a job.

As well, is the determinant factor local ratios of asians to others, or global ratios. State or National.

And what happens when there are conflicts, such as which quota is being adhered to? Is a woman who is asian working toward fulfilling two quota requirements? or just one? This is also not a trivial question, as it is possible to have mixtures that end up making the overall quota requirement fulfillment look good, but in terms of actual numbers, every person who is eligible for multiple quota fulfillment is actually depriving another person of underrepresented groups employment because of the multiple quota criteria.

I mainly bring this up because of that odd 20 percent hire rate. And if it's not active discrimination, what the hell are they suing for? It either is, or it isn't. If you get a workplace in Silicon Valley that has no asians or women or people of African descent, or the Huffington Post's all white woman and one asian woman boardroom meeting, that is pretty obvious that there's something going on, and it's active intentional discrimination. 20 percent asian hires though? Might be just people's networking going on. As a lawsuit action, what is the remedy? You can't have a lawsuit without a remedy. That's what I am interested in

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