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People Who Claim To Work 75-Hour Weeks Usually Only Work About 50 Hours (nymag.com) 233

An anonymous reader quotes a report from New York Magazine: I want to thank Kevin Drum from Mother Jones for surfacing a 2011 Bureau of Labor Statistics study that confirms something I've long suspected: Virtually anyone you know who claims to be working more than 60 hours a week is not telling the truth. Bureau of Labor Statistics researchers reached this conclusion by comparing regular survey data to diary data from the American Time Use Survey, a Census project that asks Americans to track, diary style, how their weekly time is divided among 163 different activity categories, from sleeping to shopping to pet care.

The BLS study found respondents in the ATUS tend to give an estimate of typical working time that is 5 to 10 percent higher than what shows up in their diaries. But the divergence was not uniform across the population. The largest overestimates came from the people providing the highest estimates: People who said they typically worked 75 or more hours per week tended to provide diaries reflecting 25 hours' less work per week than they estimated. People claiming to typically work between 65 and 74 hours weekly tended to be overestimating by 18 hours. Again, this sort of misreporting is not limited to work hours. People overestimate how often they do all sorts of things they "ought" to be doing, often by even larger margins than with work for pay.

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People Who Claim To Work 75-Hour Weeks Usually Only Work About 50 Hours

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  • cyclical (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    People's self-reported use of time is proved false by people's self-reported use of time?

    • Re: cyclical (Score:2, Insightful)

      The study also seems to assume that if I'm driving the pet to the vet I'm not working. I have woke with solutions to problems because I was working in my sleep.
    • Re: cyclical (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      People who have time to do surveys and claiming 75 hour work week may be lying. When I was on a crazy schedule (4 years) I would not have bothered with something else that wants my time.

    • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      ... is proved false by people documenting their said use of time.

    • by quenda ( 644621 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @10:03PM (#58493624)

      Peter Gibbons:

      Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work.
      You see, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't even care."

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

      • Re:Office Space (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Kiuas ( 1084567 ) on Friday April 26, 2019 @06:14AM (#58494676)

        Studies have actually shown that 6 hours is about the upper limit of creative work you can get out of most people. Not to say there aren't exceptional people out there who can do more, but for the average individual doing tasks that actually requyire thinking (as opposed to just being a cog at a production line which is where the 8 hour work-day originates), productivity plummets, and stress increases. In fact when youy start working for more than 50 hours a week, the chances of burning out start to climb up fast.

        I've personally had to spend time fixing statistical reports created by people in a hurry that were practically useless because the data was missing stuff it was supposed to include. The people in question are not incompetent, in fact at other times they've done the same task extremely well but I could see that they were under a lot of pressure and that caused them to be sloppy (I since spent time automating the whole process to cut down on manual work and errors). For the same reason I avoid taking up large tasks close to the end of a work day. If you ever start something with the mindset of 'I'm just going to do this one thing quickly and then head home', you're most likely better off just leaving it for tomorrow or if you absolutely have to do it today, go home and do it from there with more time and after some relaxing.

        This is why the concept of 'crunch' in IT especially is so counter-productive: game companies especially are notorious for 'constant cruch' because the update cycle in free-to-play games is intense to keep new content coming in and the players engaged. Quoting a recent Kotaku article [kotaku.com] on the subject:

        Today, a new report from Polygon detailed how the developers of Fortnite, a game that technically is never finished, can suffer through crunch to keep the blockbuster battle royale game’s constant flow of content going.

        “We’re always in crunch,” a source told Polygon. “Crunch never ends in a live service game like that. You’re always building more content and more stuff.”

        Speaking with 12 current and former Epic employees, Polygon reports that they “regularly worked in excess of 70-hour weeks, with some reporting 100-hour weeks,” the article reads. “Contract staff in Epic’s quality assurance and customer service departments spoke of a stressful and hostile working environment in which working overtime—while officially voluntary—was an expected service to the company.” One source said they worked seven days a week for 12 hours each day throughout several months. Others detailed to Polygon the impact that such long hours were having on their lives. - -

        Kotaku has reported how employees at AAA studios like Rockstar and BioWare foster a crunch culture that takes a heavy toll on their home lives, mental health and relationships. Sometimes, these trying periods simply result in layoffs after the game is released. Other times they lead to talent burnout, prompting developers to leave for less stressful industries. As the gaming industry tends more aggressively toward designing games as a service—adding content on an ongoing basis instead of releasing in full—the risk of studios overworking their developers to keep up is not to be ignored.

        (here's a link [polygon.com] to the Polygon report for those interested)

        Now look at that as a european project manager and my eyes roll. I mean the strategy is clear: you take in young and aspiring coders, you create and atmosphere where people are pressured to work overtime constantly (lest you're not a 'team player' and can expect to get fired/not have your contract continued), then you work them until they burn out and quit or become so tired and stressed that they're useless and you fire them, and you replace the with

    • The way they tally data suggests to me they had a goal of calling people liars. If I'm on call M-F 9a/9p, I'm working 60 hours a week whether I get called or not. If you ask me to do a daily tally of my activities that would not be represented. Would I have sat at my desk watching funny cat videos for 12 straight hours if I were not on call? Fuck no, but I was not free to go live my life, I was expected to be ready to handle potential disaster on 5 minute notice.

      When the boss is calling me after I have left

    • Diary-style "live reporting" that is chronologically closer to the event is generally far more reliable than aggregate reporting that occurs long after the event(s).

      So, yes, more reliable self-reports can and should take precedence over less reliable self-reports.

      Also, in general, the self-report that paints the reporter in the least favorable light is usually the most accurate. There have been multiple studies using different methods that demonstrate this point. Intentional or not, we are always trying to

      • I sometimes calculate 'inflation indices' for my coworkers and associates, just so I can deflate their future claims where I wasn't there to watch the actual work.

        It takes one incident where you observed what they did, they what they reported doing.

        30% plus 10% per year elapsed since the event is typical. But it can be _much_ higher in the insecure.

        Stealing credit for the work of others gives them an undefined 'inflation index', div by 0.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 25, 2019 @06:50PM (#58492724)

    Work about 26 hours?

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      "The largest overestimates came from the people providing the highest estimates"

      So no, the people who estimate a standard 40 hours, which would not qualify as a 'higher estimate', are probably working more like 35-40 hours.

  • Subjective hours (Score:4, Insightful)

    by burtosis ( 1124179 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @06:52PM (#58492734)
    The report dosent seem to have clearly defined "working hours". Right at the bottom of page 8 under possible reasons for the gap, they admit they didn't control for commute times. It's not made clear exactly how accurate the diaries were kept. Was it minute by minute or just guess to nearest 15? There are so many holes in this paper that dosent seem to mention witness recollections are terrible, and only get worse under stress. A better conclusion is getting people to keep journals on thier activities can often be inaccurate, and this tends to increase with the amount of other stuff they are doing. A better way would be to have them consent to being actually monitored and have the activities reviewed by a third party even if this lowered your sample size.
    • by quantaman ( 517394 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @11:22PM (#58493898)

      The report dosent seem to have clearly defined "working hours". Right at the bottom of page 8 under possible reasons for the gap, they admit they didn't control for commute times. It's not made clear exactly how accurate the diaries were kept. Was it minute by minute or just guess to nearest 15? There are so many holes in this paper that dosent seem to mention witness recollections are terrible, and only get worse under stress. A better conclusion is getting people to keep journals on thier activities can often be inaccurate, and this tends to increase with the amount of other stuff they are doing. A better way would be to have them consent to being actually monitored and have the activities reviewed by a third party even if this lowered your sample size.

      One thing I wonder about is what those days for the longer workers looked like.

      For instance, you come into work at 8 am and leave at 8 pm, well that's 60 there.

      Though if you have a 1 hour lunch break, and a 1 hour dinner break... well now you're down to 50 working hours.

      Both methods are valid in their way, but the longer you work the bigger those discrepancies are going to get.

      I looked through the paper a bit but it wasn't clear whether they really looked at that, but I suspect a lot of the gap comes from the long workers having fragmented schedules where they feel like they're never really off.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Maybe they are Chinese and working the 996 schedule - 9 AM to 9 PM, 6 days a week.

        Although having seen people working that in practice they spend much of that time doing other stuff. They are manning the shop or in the office, but also cooking dinner on a little gas stove or on WeChat.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • by dcw3 ( 649211 )

        Where can you work and claim your lunch and dinner breaks? I'd have been fired if I'd done so.

    • This. Exactly this.
      When I calculate how long I work, I think that I set my alarm for 5am, and I get home at 6pm. Yes, many of those hours are unpaid but they are all hours I need to "pay" to work. At most like 30 minutes in that entire time period are even semi free where I have some choice in what I want to do.

      • by jabuzz ( 182671 )

        Really? Getting washed, eating and going to the toilet are required even if you are not going to work. So clearly you are one of the people over estimating things.

        • 1. Getting washed and dressed is not required if you are not going to work.
          2. Getting washed and dressed takes like 15 minutes so hardly effects anything.
          3. You need to eat either way, but munching on dry toast as you run out the door, when I am not even hungry, because I know it will be 7 hours before I am allowed to eat again, is not how I would of eaten if I were not working.
          4. It works both ways. I am still not counting the numerous hours on weekends and after work I spend preparing food, transportation

        • by skids ( 119237 )

          Eh, well I only do 2 out of three of those things even when I am going to work.

  • by RyanFenton ( 230700 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @06:54PM (#58492742)

    If you can't actually use the time involved for actually living your life, it really REALLY should be counted as work time. That includes travel time, work-at-home time, any lengthy phone calls, and being asked to go somewhere to buy something/deliver something.

    In that regard, I'd say the estimate would work out just find for lots of folks, in terms of the time taken from them that they can't use for their own needs or desires.

    Ryan Fenton

    • by godrik ( 1287354 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @07:08PM (#58492822)

      That includes travel time, work-at-home time, any lengthy phone calls, and being asked to go somewhere to buy something/deliver something.

      I don't know what you mean by travel time. If it is from your home to your regular office you go to everyday, I'd argue that probably you shouldn't count it because it depends where you live and that is not in the control of your employer. But if it is business travel time (fly to a field office, drive to see a client in a nearby city, or even in the same city), then absolutely.

      • "I don't know what you mean by travel time" ... "I'd argue that probably you shouldn't count it"

        Exactly. Is "work" paid time only? Then no
        Is it travelling for a client? Then yes.
        Is it travelling to your job when considering your work life balance? absolutely.

        Depends on if you consider all the time you don't get paid, but yet perform work auxiliary functions, as "work". Travelling is one perfect example of that. You need to travel for work, and travelling usually takes a lot of your attention. Many people ar

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • employers control where you live. People move to where the work is by and large (save for some high end silicone valley jobs). Also the rich and powerful shape our transportation system to their liking. I don't drive 30 minutes in daily instead of using a train/bus because I like it, I do it because the car companies want to sell me a car.
      • I don't know what you mean by travel time. If it is from your home to your regular office you go to everyday, I'd argue that probably you shouldn't count it because it depends where you live and that is not in the control of your employer.

        You are thinking of "billable hours" from the employers point of view whereas the OP is talking about hours taken from your life in pursuit of earning money from the employees point of view.

        Granted, your employer generally doesn't control where you live and therefore, shoudln't have to pay you for your commuting time; however, that commute time is not something you would do for your own pleasure; therefore, from the employees point of view, that commute time is part of work, even if it is not payable time.

      • by skids ( 119237 )

        If it is from your home to your regular office you go to everyday, I'd argue that probably you shouldn't count it because it depends where you live and that is not in the control of your employer.

        Very often, the employer controls where they put their office. Quite frequently they choose that location for retarded PHB reasons. So the argument can go either way, depending on the situation.

        Anyway this thread demonstrates pretty adequately that time is only one dimension by which we are measuring a multidimensional "quantity"... which frankly is as much a qualitative as quantitative thing when you get right down to it.

        (Alternatively, to quote the great thunderclese, "time is an abstract concept invent

    • That would make for an interesting study. You get paid when you leave your front door until you arrive at your front door. Making companies pay for rush hour traffic could be interesting.....

      I've worked with people who drove 90 minutes each way, some due to traffic (they drove from Irvine to San Diego), and others who just wanted to live in the sticks (Valley Center to San Diego. Hi Paul!).
    • I try to be very accurate in my time accounting. I have had to work 7 days per week in crunch time. I have a 2 hour commute each day. After I hit my 40, that time counts. I don't get paid for it but it is time that is no longer mine. I have worked 24+ hours straight multiple times. It really sucks and I wouldn't recommend it. Once when I worked for a construction company while I was in college (during the summer), we tried to work 20 hour shifts to remodel a restaurant in four days from start to finish. We
      • Don't just never do 'death marches', but expect and _bill_for_ the recovery time at the end of the death march.

        Never bill death marches by the day or job, they are hourly and the hourly rate is at least double your normal one. They aren't a good deal for the company. They are for desperate times.

        If you are working someplace that is constant (crisis/death march) just stop working and focus on your job search. The upside of those places is the line managers are just as crispy as the workers and won't not

  • by ruddk ( 5153113 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @06:55PM (#58492750)

    This Monday, I worked about 28 hours in just one day before driving home, and Tuesday it was the same. These people need to stop lying, it makes the rest of us look bad.

    • by dohzer ( 867770 )

      I did the same, but I had to walk to work, and it was uphill both ways.

      • by ruddk ( 5153113 )

        WALK? You were lucky, we had to crawl, on gravel, 10 miles twice every day, and we were happy to do it.

    • Re:That's nothing (Score:5, Interesting)

      by dcw3 ( 649211 ) on Friday April 26, 2019 @10:09AM (#58495546) Journal

      I know you're joking, but my story is true...

      I put ~28 legitimate hours on my timecard for one day many years ago (early 80s). We were allowed to bill our travel time, and leaving my hotel in Germany at 5am for a ride to the airport, I ended up having five hours of delay at Frankfurt Intl. Our original non-stop flight turned into a layover in London, where they inexplicably made everyone deplane and run through security before reboarding the same plane. Somewhere over Canada, one of our four engines decided to stop functioning, but our pilot told us that we were just fine with 3 engines, and would continue on to LAX. By the time we landed, my connecting flight had departed many hour earlier, and it was after midnight in CA. Since my destination was only a couple hours drive away, I requested and received a voucher for a rental car. So, with all the timezone changes (think it was 9 hrs), I entered the actual travel time (5am-midnight + 9 hours for timezones) on my timesheet. Accounting called, and after much discussion accepted my claim.

      • by ruddk ( 5153113 )

        HA! That is funny(well not the failing engine part). I can imagine their heads spinning when trying to deal with the time zones. :D

      • I have that beat. 10 hours Sydney (I was 'working' with the client during the long lunch at the 'gentlemans club'), 15 hours overnight travel (including puddle jumper from SFI), 6 hours Sacramento (mostly debriefing for the previous week).

        Great employer, didn't even bitch (much) that I was 'late for work' and only did a six.

        I'll grant that we didn't fly over the dateline at exactly 12 midnight, but close enough.

        Accounting didn't argue, it was billable, they loved it. The club/brothel costs were 'legi

  • It seems to me that overtime is generally only productive in the short term. Too long on overtime and your productivity drops, so that you're working extra hours, but only getting the standard amount of stuff done.

    Someone else mentioned good ideas coming after a good night's sleep. I find this too, though the ideas often pop into my head in the shower. Taking a brisk, relaxing walk is also a good way to let the ideas percolate.

    • Yes, it has been studied to death; all types of work really peak at an “honest week’s worth” of work— generally 35-40 hours.

      My personal issue is I have 2-3 productive hours in the morning, a block of 2 hours goofing off before lunch, an hour of personal time for lunch, a very productive, caffeine induced spurt for another hour or two, then two or three hours “wasted” mostly mentoring people or goofing off, and then a final hour or two productively before I go home.

      I don

  • by sqorbit ( 3387991 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @07:22PM (#58492902)
    People who only claim to be on slashdot 15 hours a week are really on here 30.
  • Truckers are limited to a maximum of 70 Driving hours a week.
    There's a lot more than driving to their job, too.
    Most of them "fudge" their log books to make their work day fit into each page, regardless of how long it actually took to do what was expected of them every day. Nevermind all the stuff they are expected to do at weird hours "off the books" that cut into their expected 10 hour off time they are supposed to have every day. (Like 3 AM unloading during their "Sleep Time")

    Given this little factoid, is

  • 100 hr work weeks (Score:5, Insightful)

    by orlanz ( 882574 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @07:32PM (#58492978)

    Over my life time, I have done 3-4 weeks of over 100 hours a week. For those wondering what that looks like... you don't go home; you drink lots of caffeine and sleep 4-6 hrs at your desk. For 7 days straight. Then crash the following week for a day or two.

    Are you actually doing work those 100 hours? Of course not! About 40 hours is waiting on some dependency to get figured out so you can do your 4 hr sprint on yours. But you can't go anywhere, you can't go do your normal life stuff (other than bath, crap, & eat). Initially, the free time is wasted on online browsing, TV, whatever. By Thursday you just kind of vegetate out; mentally shutting down to rest when you get a chance. On a per hour level, it's utter shit performance. Everyone knows it.

    But politically, it's seen as some twisted sort of "dedication", "achievement", and taking "responsibility".

    And those weeks you didn't fly out/in. Normally we did 60+ hours; at the Client 6-6 for 4 days, lunch at desk, capped by 5 hours of flight/travel each way, and regular employee catchup stuff on Friday for 4 hrs. We were just happy everyone was too tired to bug us on between Friday noon till Sunday morning.

  • by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @07:34PM (#58492998) Journal

    "I work the most hours ever, believe me! I work 200 hours a week, tremendous hours, really tremendous. Lyin' CNN claims 200 is mathematically impossible, but those losers fouled up my inauguration crowd count, what do they know about maths? I know Calculus, Copernicus, and Algae bras. Lots of bras, know 'em all, do 'em in my sleep; bing bing, bong bong, all done, great answers, people love 'em. #MakeMerikaWorkLongly

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      In other news, anybody who tells you (or anybody in earshot) loudly and repeatedly that they are a billionaire, is not.

  • Will be coming soon. Now...BACK to WORK!
  • In the US many people dont work their full shift.
    A shift of 10 workers can "cover" for a few workers who add hours to a weekend by leaving early on Friday. Who come to work late on Monday.
    Any advanced digital tracking of hours worked is always corrected to show a full shift worked.

    Want to keep your workers working?
    Do an inspection Friday afternoon. Call it a "meeting", "project" report. Anything to gather all the people who should be at work together.
    See if a few of the best workers are doing all th
  • ... to make a distinction between being at work and working. It's easy to do extra hours of the former without doing so many of the latter.

    • by dcw3 ( 649211 )

      100% agree. However, some jobs are different than others. There are plenty of jobs that are somewhat mindless, and can be done for many hours. Before I retired, when I was planning out my work day, I'd always save those kind of tasks for the end, when I knew that I'd be zoned out. There are also a lot of jobs that are essentially on standby, waiting for something to happen...I call these firemen jobs, which I did in my early days as a computer technician, waiting for the phone to ring.

  • I see so many people who claim to work 40 hours a week really only work 26. The rest of their time is spent socializing with co-workers, browsing the web (and using /.) and pretending to do work. Why would this not scale the same way to a 75 hour week?

  • Try it for yourself (Score:3, Interesting)

    by adfraggs ( 4718383 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @09:34PM (#58493552)
    Before we all load in with our opinions maybe try this for yourself and see what you find out. I started using a pomodoro tool to track my work tasks and discovered that out of a 7.5 hour "day" I was generally only putting in 6 hours of actual work, on a good day. The other 1.5 hours went on things like staring into space, web surfing, tea/coffee breaks or doing personal stuff. That's not to say I didn't achieve anything or work to my capacity. Most of us get a lot done when we get into a nice flow but maintaining that for a solid 8 hours a day isn't realistic for everyone.
  • I work from 2p-midnight, 7 days in row, but then off for 7 days.
  • If you don't track your time at work, you should try it, particularly if you have management responsibilities.

    How much time are you actually working? What things are wasting your time? What things are making you feel like you're working more than you actually are?

    There's nothing like a pointless meeting to bring productivity to a standstill and yet make everyone feel like they're working 10 hour days.

  • it was fairly common to work five and dime watch rotations at sea down in the engine room. Thats 5hrs of watch and then 10 hours off. But hold up, your 10hrs off doesnt mean its your free time. If it falls between 7am - 4pm you are still expected to show up at your workcenter and put in a full day of work doing preventive maintenance, cleaning workspaces, getting ready for inspections, etc. Sunday is the only day that you dont have the 7am-4pm workday, which, btw, when crossing the international date line g

  • A similar phenomenon here in Chicago during winter. For every hour people claim it took them to shovel our their car, it actually only takes them 15 minutes on average.
    • by Bob_Who ( 926234 )

      A similar phenomenon here in Chicago during winter. For every hour people claim it took them to shovel our their car, it actually only takes them 15 minutes on average.

      It only takes 15 minutes in Florida.

  • In my job, I am able to work from home a lot - I'm a teacher, and it doesn't really matter where I'm sitting, when I'm grading exams, updating lectures, or whatever. I have absolutely no idea how I would even count the number of hours I work, because the work is interspersed with private things. Right now, I'm on /. because I have a 15 minute window before I have to leave for a meeting.

    Which brings me to the point of this comment: If I were in the corporate world, with this 15 minute window of time (too lit

    • Depending on your responsibilities, there's also value to keeping a certain amount of time available for your peers to ask questions and so on without impacting timelines. Having me dedicating more time to "sit down and concentrate" type work would lower the total output of my business unit.
    • by godrik ( 1287354 )

      In my job, I am able to work from home a lot - I'm a teacher, and it doesn't really matter where I'm sitting, when I'm grading exams, updating lectures, or whatever. I have absolutely no idea how I would even count the number of hours I work, because the work is interspersed with private things. Right now, I'm on /. because I have a 15 minute window before I have to leave for a meeting.

      Yeah, people do not usually understand what we do. The "work time" of a teacher is not just the time spent in class. It is also grading, prepping for lectures, answering students questions, talk to students to understand what they students need and that may not be curricular. It is also figuring out better ways to teach your class, that could be reading other textbooks, understanding how the previous class in the sequence is built and adjust to that, understand what the next class in the sequence expects. I

  • ...always work less than they say.

  • I am expected to be on site by 7 am. That means I arrive at about 6:45, but I am going to stick to the 7 am number for the simple math.

    I am expected to be here until 5 pm. That comes out to 50 hours per week so far.

    Then I am expected to put in at least four hours on either Saturday or Sunday.

    That comes out to 54 hours per week.

    However, there is a balancing factor. I am a teacher; so I have about two and a half months off in the summer where the expectation is that I will put in, an average of, two hours per

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • If people tell you about working a ridiculous number of hours per week on board a commercial fishing vessel, believe them. For sport fishing, I am told the truth is much more optional.

Life is a healthy respect for mother nature laced with greed.

Working...