Americans Are Leaving the US in Record Numbers (msn.com) 393
An anonymous reader shares a report: In its 250th year, is America, land of immigration, becoming a country of emigration? Last year the U.S. experienced something that hasn't definitively occurred since the Great Depression: More people moved out than moved in. The Trump administration has hailed the exodus -- negative net migration -- as the fulfillment of its promise to ramp up deportations and restrict new visas. Beneath the stormy optics of that immigration crackdown, however, lies a less-noticed reversal: America's own citizens are leaving in record numbers, replanting themselves and their families in lands they find more affordable and safe.
Since the Eisenhower administration, the U.S. hasn't collected comprehensive statistics on the number of citizens leaving. Yet data on residence permits, foreign home purchases, student enrollments and other metrics from more than 50 countries show that Americans are voting with their feet to an unprecedented degree. A millions-strong diaspora is studying, telecommuting and retiring overseas. The new American dream, for some of its citizens, is to no longer live there.
In the cobblestoned streets of Lisbon, so many Americans are snapping up apartments that the newest arrivals complain they mostly hear their own language -- not Portuguese. One of every 15 residents in Dublin's trendy Grand Canal Dock district was born in the U.S., according to realtors, higher than the percentage of Americans born in Ireland during the 19th-century influx following the Potato Famine. In Bali, Colombia and Thailand, the strains of housing American remote workers paid in dollars have inspired locals to mount protests against a wave of gentrification. More than 100,000 young students are enrolled abroad for a more affordable university degree. In nursing homes mushrooming across the Mexican border, elderly Americans are turning up for low-cost care.
[...] The U.S. experienced net negative migration -- an estimated loss of some 150,000 people -- in 2025, and the outflow will likely increase in 2026, according to calculations by the Brookings Institution, a public-policy think tank. The number could be larger or smaller because official U.S. data doesn't yet fully capture the number of people leaving, Brookings analysts noted. The total in-migration was between around 2.6 and 2.7 million in 2025, down from a peak of almost 6 million in 2023. The U.S. saw 675,000 deportations and 2.2 million "self-deportations" last year, according to data from the Department of Homeland Security. A Wall Street Journal analysis of 15 countries providing full or partial 2025 data showed that at least 180,000 Americans joined them -- a number likely to be far higher when other countries report full statistics.
Since the Eisenhower administration, the U.S. hasn't collected comprehensive statistics on the number of citizens leaving. Yet data on residence permits, foreign home purchases, student enrollments and other metrics from more than 50 countries show that Americans are voting with their feet to an unprecedented degree. A millions-strong diaspora is studying, telecommuting and retiring overseas. The new American dream, for some of its citizens, is to no longer live there.
In the cobblestoned streets of Lisbon, so many Americans are snapping up apartments that the newest arrivals complain they mostly hear their own language -- not Portuguese. One of every 15 residents in Dublin's trendy Grand Canal Dock district was born in the U.S., according to realtors, higher than the percentage of Americans born in Ireland during the 19th-century influx following the Potato Famine. In Bali, Colombia and Thailand, the strains of housing American remote workers paid in dollars have inspired locals to mount protests against a wave of gentrification. More than 100,000 young students are enrolled abroad for a more affordable university degree. In nursing homes mushrooming across the Mexican border, elderly Americans are turning up for low-cost care.
[...] The U.S. experienced net negative migration -- an estimated loss of some 150,000 people -- in 2025, and the outflow will likely increase in 2026, according to calculations by the Brookings Institution, a public-policy think tank. The number could be larger or smaller because official U.S. data doesn't yet fully capture the number of people leaving, Brookings analysts noted. The total in-migration was between around 2.6 and 2.7 million in 2025, down from a peak of almost 6 million in 2023. The U.S. saw 675,000 deportations and 2.2 million "self-deportations" last year, according to data from the Department of Homeland Security. A Wall Street Journal analysis of 15 countries providing full or partial 2025 data showed that at least 180,000 Americans joined them -- a number likely to be far higher when other countries report full statistics.
Fuck this administration (Score:5, Insightful)
for ruining this country for decades to come.
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:4, Insightful)
People have been leaving ever since the pandemic normalized remote work. Many other parts of the world are a whole heaping lot cheaper to live in than the USA and just as nice or nicer in various ways. So, people in a position to be able to remote work have high incentive to bolt, and the tech that supports remote work is here to stay (unlike Trump).
If you are looking for political motivation to leave, though, that door swings both ways. There is a conservative culture in the country that thinks liberals have attained far too much power and are ruining it, and fully expect a huge liberal pushback in the very near future. And there is a liberal culture in this country that (much like you) sees the Trump administration as the harbinger of the end times. The extremists on both sides can't abide each others' existence, and they make a lot of noise about it, so that friction is probably also driving some departures on both sides.
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a nice narrative, but it's false.
You only see the positive aspects of liberal agendas, and the negative aspects of conservative agendas. That is what it means to be biased. You can't see what aspects of liberal agendas might be harmful or why conservatives are upset about it, nor the positive aspects of conservative agendas. You are, yourself, an extremist, and as such you cannot think objectively on the issue.
It IS true that there are some specific conservatives who are rich and powerful, and they seek to consolidate their wealth and power just like all rich and powerful people do (regardless of political agenda). This does not mean that such efforts are supported by the wider conservative community. In fact, most conservatives are at the poor end of the spectrum and hate the enormous wealth gap just as much as anyone else (though they aren't interested in swapping that out for an even greater evil of communism).
The ugly truth is that nearly all the actual political power in the USA is held by a small group of extremely wealthy people, mostly bank moguls, who consistently get every piece of legislation they support passed, and every piece of legislation they oppose squelched. They steer the country in ways that strengthen their power, with no loyalty to either political party. The enraged argument and civil disharmony caused by the extremes of liberals and conservatives shouting at each other distract us all from this core issue, which is exactly the way they want it. So long as the extreme voices, like yours, continue to dominate the discussion and drown out the moderates, the situation will continue exactly as it is now.
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:4, Insightful)
When the liberal "extremists" discuss higher income taxes on the super-rich to pay for Medicare for all but the conservative "extremists" want an ethnic cleansing, lumping them together as equally bad is a giant pile of horseshit.
If people in CA or MA are afraid the evil librul state government is going to take their guns or their diesel trucks, they aren't leaving the country. They'll move to a new state. People leaving the country for ideological reasons are doing it because of the descent into fascism.
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:5, Insightful)
EU is now moving a way from purchasing US military equipment.
So who do we sell to now?
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Neither are you, Nazi. And your idiot's been in charge over a year. YOU own this, not Biden. Get over your BDS.
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:5, Insightful)
Stop trying to change what the founding fathers made
The founding fathers didn't want a king.
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:5, Insightful)
It's hilarious hearing "TDS" from the people who still whine about FDR, Carter, Clinton, Obama and think Soros is the micromanaging mastermind behind everything they despise
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:5, Funny)
I'm not very updated on "TDS", but I assume it's about the mindset that makes people elect a convicted felon and general con artist with a high score on false public statements?
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't hate Trump. I pity him. No matter how much shit he slaps his name on, it won't fill the hole is daddy left in him. But people that damaged shouldn't be let anywhere near power.
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:5, Informative)
We don't have a king, except in the minds of the TDS afflicted.
Ok. The founding fathers didn't want the President of the United States to have ANY POWERS to make any decisions inside the country. The goal was for the President to merely be the administrative head to enforce laws Congress pass, and its only check on Congress was the veto power. The President also served as a Commander in Chief and had the power to sign treaties with foreign governments, but those powers were meant to be EXTREMELY limited, as they gave only Congress the power to declare war, and Congress was required to ratify any treaties with foreign governments.
If the President has the power to make ANY DECISIONS WHATSOEVER, instead of enforcing decisions those in congress have made, then it's not the role the founding fathers wanted.
They also wanted the executive to be very neutral. Many of them were against the concept of political parties, but that turned out to be inevitable. However, up until the 12th amendment, the vice-president was the runner up, whoever got the second-most votes by the electoral college. So, under that system, Hillary would have been Trump's VP his first term, and Harris would have been Trump's VP his second term. Because they wanted to ensure a check even within the executive, with someone with different views being the one to break ties in the senate.
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They also wanted the executive to be very neutral. Many of them were against the concept of political parties, but that turned out to be inevitable.
Up until around 2008, this was still mostly the case. You might champion specific goals that align with a party, but you mostly work together to get things done.
Of the 21 government shutdowns in the nation's history, 11 of them have been in the last 13 years. It's true that a shutdown of this type wasn't possible until 1980 but its use as a political weapon is new and accelerating.
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:5, Interesting)
And we don't have one. Or a Hitler. No matter how badly some people scream so.
I'm not screaming, but I genuinely would like to know how the following behaviors are not Trump being a king:
-Pardoning people after they make a large donation to him.
-Pardoning his friends and supporters, even when they clearly break the law, because they were breaking the law in support of him.
-Demanding public institutions give him free land on which he will build a hotel and other properties that will benefit him (and may contain some kind of "library").
-Flaunting the law and saying rulings from the Supreme Court make no difference.
-Refusing to share evidence of criminal activities with local law enforcement officers.
-Hiding dozens and dozens of pages of materials from the Epstein files that allegedly implicate him in wrong doing.
-Receiving an airplane as a bribe - er, gift - and then rewarding that country with favorable policies.
-Saying he will name a person to be the leader of Venezuela IF she gives him the Nobel Peace Prize (which she did).
All of this - and more - he does while his sycophants bow down and worship him, lavishing praise on everything he does and never acknowledging or pointing out anything that he ever did was wrong or should be held accountable for.
So please, explain to me how this isn't a king?
The President was always king (Score:3)
Re:The President was always king (Score:4, Insightful)
A lot of our government was set up such that despite all the bickering, we essentially just agree to play by the rules. Nobody expected someone to take on the office and do the job in bad faith. It was always assumed that someone who wouldn't fulfill the duties in good faith would just never get elected.
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:5, Informative)
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet, and a king by any other name would act the same.
He 'crowned' himself when he posted an AI image of himself wearing a goddamned crown. His followers practically worship him as they would God or Jesus. He doesn't need to call himself Majesty because everyone is already required to address him by a title; it's just President instead of King or Emperor or Great Dear Supreme Leader.
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Citation needed.
You're hung up on technicalities of how one became king and cherrypicking details of how this means Trump doesn't see himself as ruler for life. Take Putin as an example; he's technically an elected president, but would you also argue he doesn't act like he's a king or emperor?
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:4, Interesting)
Sorry, but he *has*. He's calling the SCOTUS "disloyal", he's calling everyone who doesn't kiss his ass "disloyal". He's showing every single sign of "le etat? Es moi".
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:5, Informative)
- Clinton definitely did that, as have many others
So you agree that Trump is abusing the power of pardon to benefit himself financially?
- You mean his Presidential Library? See above. Include Biden and his library at... I forget which university.
Biden selected a location in Delaware for his library. He is now fundraising for it, now that he is OUT of office (as it should be). Trump demanded publicly-owned, beachfront property be given to him for the library, and is planning on building a for-profit hotel and other business that will benefit him on that stolen land. So, you agree that building "libraries" that personally benefit presidents is wrong?
- Oh, like Biden and Obama saying that the law banning public funds for illegal aliens was confusing so they wouldn't enforce it? Or like every president that runs up against a Court ruling they don't like, which is all of them?
Obama and Biden both were prioritizing the use of limited resources to target those illegal immigrants who presented a real risk to the general public. They were still enforcing the law, but as it was written it was not fully enforceable. Every president has had Supreme Court rulings they didn't like, but they are all Constitutionally bound to follow them. Trump has ignored many of them.
- What? You mean the local law enforcement that won't cooperate with the Feds? Or how the feds have supremacy and are always in charge of investigations into the actions of federal agents? Because that's how it works - the States don't investigate the feds. You're calling Trump a King because you're mistaken about the Constitution.
Where does the Constitution say that states are not allowed to prosecute crimes that occur within their borders?
- DoJ says all the files are out. There were never credible allegations against Trump, and if there were, Biden would have made a big frikkin deal about it.
The evidence is quite plain that there are pages and pages that have not been released. See: https://www.npr.org/2026/02/24... [npr.org]
Biden did make "a big frikkin deal" out of Trump's past behavior.
- If you can show a corrupt exchange, please do. Corruption is bad. Like when Biden flew to China and his son came back with billions.
So you agree that Trump receiving an airplane and then changing policies toward the country that gave him the airplane is corrupt and he should be held accountable for doing that?
- And he didn't actually say that. And if you'll notice, he didn't put anyone new in charge, the person who was vice president is now president. But now Machado (may have that name wrong) can actually run in the next election and not get shot.
The White House said Trump didn't support her but would have if she had declined to accept the prize (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-machado-snub-nobel-peace-prize-venezuela-b2895216.html), and that her accepting it (instead of declining and demanding it be given to Trump) was "a sin." She then did give it to him, and he still didn't support her. Later, he claimed he never said any of this, but that was only after it blew up in his face.
It is very clear he thinks of himself as a king - see these photos of himself as a king the Whitehouse shared (https://www.newsweek.com/white-house-donald-trump-king-time-2033574); and his supporters clearly treat him as one (including the elected Republican officials).
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:5, Funny)
Was he crowned?
Do you understand the concept of a metaphor, or were you the reason the No Child Left Behind policy was introduced in schools?
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Honestly I think No Child Left Behind failed this guy big time.
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:4, Insightful)
I can say "Fuck this administration" and not be dragged out and disappeared.
Except when you say "F*** ICE" and they put several bullets into you. Until there is real accountability for the recent criminal actions of the DHS, your statement is not nearly as absolute as it is supposed to be.
Re: Fuck this administration (Score:5, Informative)
Hint: it's not because the name of a party (or a country for that matter. See the Democratic People's Republic of Korea) includes a word that it in any way subscribes to what that word means.
So, yes, you can throw as many tantrums as you like, being far right means your cozying up with people like Hitler. Suck it up !
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Correct. It's good that we still have an elected president.
Hate to burst your bubble, but the US does not have a president who is elected directly by the voters. The individual states are apportioned electoral-college votes, and they hold elections to determine who gets them. Then the electoral college holds a vote to determine who becomes president. The number of electoral-college votes each candidate gets varies by state: some states are winner-take-all, and others are apportioned by the vote tallies.
So yes, the president is elected, but not in the way you might
Why an electoral college. (Score:5, Informative)
I think you're still confused somewhat about the mechanism or impact... the "electors" are supposed to vote for whomever their states' rules say they should vote for.
Nope.
The original view, back when the population was sparse and news traveled by horseback, was that the voters wouldn't have enough information on the national scale to know who to vote for, so they would vote for a local person with good judgement, who would get together with the other electors to decide the presidency. There was no such thing as a "faithless elector," because electors were to vote for who they thought was the better candidate.
But the idea that the voters were electing a college of wise men to select the president vanished pretty quickly. The actual voters wanted to cast votes for their choice for president, not their choice for who to elect a president for them.
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:5, Insightful)
If you hate America, you should move. Stop trying to change what the founding fathers made.
People who are moving don't hate America. They hate what it is turning into. That's why they are choosing now to move.
The actual people who hate America is the current administration, the one who openly shits on it, calls it a horrible place, and is hell bent on changing everything about it. If you love what America is now, then clearly you've hated it the rest of your life. You probably should have moved yourself.
US Citizens leaving the US (Score:5, Insightful)
They are Americans, just not US Citizens. Net migration is all about non-US Citizens leaving.
No, these are actually US citizens leaving. The Wall Street Journal article is pretty interesting: https://www.wsj.com/us-news/am... [wsj.com] (which you can read in the link above: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news... [msn.com] ).
Or the Miami Herald article here: https://www.miamiherald.com/ne... [miamiherald.com]
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:5, Interesting)
It's always funny to me when people point the finger at liberalism (or "neoliberalism" which is just a catch-all for things they don't like.).
No, it isn't liberalism.
It's tax policy.
That's all it is.
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:4, Insightful)
It's always funny to me when people point the finger at liberalism (or "neoliberalism" which is just a catch-all for things they don't like.).
No, it isn't liberalism.
Correct, "neoliberals" are not liberals. You were so close!
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I get the sense you're one of these people that complains about globalism while never voting.
Wrong again. I complain about nationalism while voting. I even voted for Clinton.
Got any more cuck takes for us?
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The lead is deep in your brain.
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:4)
Do not be fooled by the word liberal. Neoliberalism does not fall on the liberal/conservative axis. Reagan was a Republican, Thatcher was a conservative, both were neoliberals.
Neoliberalism is the belief that the market is the one true measure of everything, and that the market can only do good, and that the market can solve every problem for the benefit of everyone. Thus the reason for existence of a government is to turn everything into a market, and to facilitate that market, and to do what is good for the market. The role of politics then is to serve business interest. And neoliberalism posits that this arrangement is the best possible arrangement for everyone in a country.
The problem with that is that political parties themselves also become to see themselves a existing in a marketplace, selling a product, both to the voters, and since the party needs money, also to the donors. Of course it helps to do that if you believe that you are doing a good thing, that is what an ideology is for. But once one party starts selling politics for donor money, everyone else has to do it too, since you cannot expect to compete in election if your marketing budget does not compete. The end result is that there's no party left in the West that is not neoliberal. The do differ in the lip service they pay, and the rhetorics they use to sell their all the same economic agenda.
And if this sounds like Citizens United to you, well it should. Unlimited campaign financing basically means unlimited sales of politics. Obviously this should be called for what it is, corruption of the largest scale, but since it's legal, it's all a-ok.
As to what neoliberalism means in practice, take a look at the US as it is now, and do tell me that it's in a healthy place. If you need one chart to explain it all, take a look at this one https://www.theatlantic.com/bu... [theatlantic.com] The US elite has moved ahead, and left everyone behind.
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But corruption is very much a market phenomena. Something goes up for sale, and someone buys it. In the case of corruption, what's for sale is legislation and public spending. Consolidation is also the same, something goes up for sale, someone buys it.
Adam Smiths invisible hand is possibly one of the most misquoted and misunderstood concepts of our modern times, very much enabled by there rarely being any people on Earth who have actually read the considerably hefty Wealth of the Nations. It's much better t
Re:Fuck this administration (Score:4, Funny)
Re: Fuck this administration (Score:3)
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So, in two years, when everything turns blue, the crying will be how nothing can be fixed, its too far gone. So Dems can't fix it, not in power, and when in power, it can't be fixed. Same old song and dance and same story since forever.
You've fallen victim to one of the classic blunders — assuming that what politicians say and what they actually want to do are in some way related. They aren't.
When SCOTUS effectively overturned Roe v. Wade, the Republican leadership was horrified. They had spent forty years using their promise to overturn Roe as a way to con the religious right into voting for them despite their general behavior being decidedly un-Christian, and after that, they had nothing.
The primary purpose of politicians is to
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Also, on a personal note, I'm no fan of DJT, but he's so far done what he said he would - that's usually a quality to be celebrated in a politician, if he can be described as such.
Contrary to popular opinion, politicians in general try to get through with the agenda they presented as their election platform. There are many ways to fail, but in general, it's not because of the lack of trying.
Re: Fuck this administration (Score:5, Insightful)
Progressive for whom?
Before the neoliberal era, US corporations and rich paid up to a 90% tax rate. This was a deliberate policy coming from the New Deal era, the purpose of which was to not allow accumulations of wealth that could buy politics, and also to incentivise investing gains back into production instead of coasting on low effort gains.
These days neither the rich nor the corporations pay pretty much any taxes, which in and itself is not an entirely novel thing in human history. The problem is that you can live with that, if you have a wealthy middle class that is able to pay for the upkeep of the country. But the structure of the us economy/polity is set up so that the middle class has been going away in the US, which as one might witness, has ushered in an era of reactionary politics...
Re: Fuck this administration (Score:2, Informative)
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Even with that though we were still projected to have a growing population right now until Trump came to power.
Re: Fuck this administration (Score:5, Insightful)
The GOP are not the republican party I grew up with. I was a voting R for awhile before going Independent. I am still not affiliated with a party but do vote mostly Democrat these days.
The reason, Democrats at least try to implement ideas that would benefit everyone, Republicans want to consolidate power and wealth and are more concerned with telling us what we cant do... except those rules only apply to the peons and not the rule makers.
There are certain things i value most for our society, focusing on quality free education for all children through high school and going after the health care insurance pyramid scheme we have in place to make it more affordable for everyone.
Current Republicans have no morals. Bowing down to one of the most corrupt elected officials in the history of our nation simply because they are scared he'll call them mean names in social media.
If the GOP had real plans to take the issues in the US, they may earn my vote back. Blaming everything on everyone else... sorry, that's what clueless people do.
Brain drain (Score:5, Insightful)
One of the reasons I want my kid to have a masters (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think people are aware of or able to comprehend just how bad things are right now and how close we are to becoming a Soviet Russia style dictatorship.
Or at least I don't think people realize how bad that will be for them. I mean I'm sure when Germany was on its way down the tubes lots of people thought it was going the other way...
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They already do require visas to stay longer than 90 days.
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So an order of magnitude cheaper than paying out of pocket in the USA. How sad.
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LOL, these are Americans, the Average IQ goes down wherever they go!
And wherever they came from.
It's the economy, stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
This is not the start of the brain drain, merely the acceleration. It certainly isn't nearly the end of it either.
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When the morons make life miserable and can't be restrained, the smart with means get the hell out. Every one who leaves effectively makes the morons a bit more powerful, which makes the next smart person with means more likely to decide to leave.
It'd be nice if they stayed to fight to preserve their country, but can you blame them? I live in Canada, and what's happening in the US means I have escape plans for myself and my family just in case the US successfully drags us down with them.
Re: It's the economy, stupid (Score:2)
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Seems pretty stupid and short sighted to leave because you don't like a particular president. He will be gone in a few years...
The system that enabled him to come to power won't be.
Re: It's the economy, stupid (Score:4, Insightful)
You win some and you lose some. That's life. Some people consistently love this country regardless of whether they win or lose. Some people only love it when they win. Polling suggests the first group are mostly Republicans, and the second are mostly Democrats. That the "it's only good when we win" sentiment exists at all should trouble you. That it is a partisan issue should trouble you more.
Why? Because it is a good thing that no one party is always in charge. People who are only happy when their party is in charge are only going to be happy under a one-party system. This is a powerfully authoritarian sentiment that will result in an outcome they definitely don't want. And nothing self-defeating is ever good.
Re: It's the economy, stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
And yet the Maggots with which la Presidenta has populated parts of the government will remain. They never had an ounce of sense (look at whom they follow) and they will continue to screw things up for years to come. The Red states they've taken over will become an even greater drain on the economy.
Also, the graft and corruption he incorporated into the government and business will also remain and be difficult to weed out.
There's an article on the NYT front page about how cryptocurrencies are diving because there is no use for them. The crypto-bros spent heavily to get their dimwits elected and the dimwits have a bill in Congress to create a "national crypto stockpile". el Bunko profited very well off those idiots and to pay them back he removed just about all crypto-controls, he even pardoned a felon who was convicted for fraud. Should the U.S. have a crypto-stockpile, it will turn to dust as will all the tax dollars they spend on it.
California (Score:4, Insightful)
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Oh, wow, hot take!
Since it wasn't one, thanks for proving my point?
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On the other hand they did acknowledge that young women want to escape the country [foxnews.com], but of course the faux news crowd is happy to just chain them to a stove or whatever
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Except what you're saying isn't true https://www.pewresearch.org/jo... [pewresearch.org] . Fox is still the favorite.
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Why would being pro-abortion and anti-death penalty be contradictory stances? Killing a non sentient collection of cells isn't at all the same as killing a walking, talking person.
Is this really emigration? (Score:5, Insightful)
How much of this is down to "snowbirds"?
I've seen reports that Canadians are turning their backs on Florida - and selling their properties there - and heading elsewhere, and that Lisbon (along with the rest of that country) was actively trying to attract them, but their primary reasons (ICE, and a state legislature going out of their way to drive them elsewhere) don't really apply to US snowbirds. Bali, Colombia and Thailand would also fit. If this effect is down to that then 2025 is probably a one-off - they will have spent winter 2024/25 in Florida, Arizona or whatever, winter 2025/26 outside the US but only their departures will have been registered because they have not returned yet.
Of course Ireland is less of a destination for that kind of tourism.
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What is a snowbird? Sorry not American, trying to understand.
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A snowbird is a Canadian, usually senior or retired person that migrates to Florida or some other warm place in the US during the cold months of the year. I think they say "snowbird" because many birds seasonally migrate to and from Canada, much in the same way.
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A snowbird is someone who has a second home somewhere warm, in which they live for months at a time while avoiding the winter of their primary residence's climate.
I've never heard it applied to Americans, though, just Canadians who go to Florida for six months at a time.
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It is a common term in northern states. I live in a state that borders on Canada, and my next door neighbors move to Arizona every November and come back in April.
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Its widely applied to American's who live in the North East and upper midwest.
Its frequently used for people with Winter residences in more rural or touristy portions of Arizona, New Mexico, as well, less often for Georgia, Mississippi, and Alabama.
Places that comfortable in September - March, but cheap because they are not comfortable the rest of year and there is little in the way of employment, unless its handyman, grocery store clerk, audiologist, or physician. That is fine because snowbirding is most
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What is a snowbird? Sorry not American, trying to understand.
In nature, Snowbirds are the Junco, a small ground feeding bird that shows up in the winter, and leaves in the spring. For humans, it means people wo spend time in places like Florida, yet live in a colder climate normally. I have a lot of them in by back yard since I feed them. Many of the human "snowbirds" live in Canada.
Many eschewed Florida in the previous You know who administration.
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It makes sense. The upper-middle and above classes are the only people with the means to leave.
The average american living paycheck to paycheck could never afford to pick up their lives and move states let alone countries. It's part of why we keep them that way.
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How much of this is down to "snowbirds"? I've seen reports that Canadians are turning their backs on Florida - and selling their properties there - and heading elsewhere, and that Lisbon (along with the rest of that country) was actively trying to attract them, but their primary reasons (ICE, and a state legislature going out of their way to drive them elsewhere) don't really apply to US snowbirds. Bali, Colombia and Thailand would also fit. If this effect is down to that then 2025 is probably a one-off - they will have spent winter 2024/25 in Florida, Arizona or whatever, winter 2025/26 outside the US but only their departures will have been registered because they have not returned yet. Of course Ireland is less of a destination for that kind of tourism.
Don't forget the politically based abandonment by Canadians started in the previous you know who administration, and Americans going the expat route has been around for many, many years.
I think the article is clickus baitus. Mixing deportations of non-citizens with people voluntarily going expat, with some pulled out of the air "millions, claiming it is Americans leaving, then at the end some 150,000 people. Just kinda sketchy writing, and conclusions.
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It is difficult to come up with exact figures under those circumstances.
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There are also people like myself who have no restraints on where in the world we can work. I have the means to leave and the ability so my wife and I have been doing our research on which country to buy our way into residency. Once we do that we plan to work our remaining 8-10 years, retire, and never return to US soil.
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Genuinely curious.....
I've been out of the US to Europe, etc....fun to visit but I could never see myself living away from the US for any extended period of time....just seems too 'primitive" over there....trying to ice in a drink seems like pulling teeth, you know...little things like that just add up over awhile.
And I just can't see liquidating my gun collection.....whew....that would tak
Nobody cares though (Score:2)
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On one hand, most jobs are getting either automated or offshored, which then begs the question - what would people do living in the US anyway? People who are in the country illegally are leaving b'cos sooner or later, ICE will get them, while those who are citizens are either going to more affordable places if they are retired, or to places that still have jobs
Very soon, all these businesses that have encouraged the offshoring of their operations to countries (mainly) in Asia will recognize the wisdom of
Re:Nobody cares though (Score:4, Interesting)
most jobs are getting either automated or offshored
This doesn't make any sense. There are more jobs in the US now than at any time in history and the unemployment rate is near historical all-time lows. [statista.com] But go ahead and live on vibes instead of data, and see how that works out for you.
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Polling suggests that Democrats only feel patriotic when they are in charge, while Republicans are always patriotic, regardless of who sits in the White House.
If I had the means (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd leave. I have the smarts and skills to get a decent job anywhere in the world. The issue is the means. I lost all my savings, and barely can make rent, and that's with a decent job, as my rent is now almost 3/4ths of my monthly wage, and my debt is going up.
Even with excellent credit, I can't get a house, because without that savings that I lost in this economy, I can't afford the down payment.
I'm doing what I can, but even though I work a decent position in a very well known (sometimes hated) company, it's not exactly easy to pick up and move to better areas, because even moving 60 miles away from where I was cost me almost $10k in all expenses, due to the cost of even moving.
I live in the midwest. It's becoming a shithole, all cost-affordable places are being bought up by private equity real estate firms and turned into luxury apartments, or plain tearing down affordable HOUSES to raze them and put up luxury apartments, thus forcing low-cost houses to be foreclosed-upon when residents of 50 years in said houses can't keep up on taxes, allowing venture firms to buy them up at a complete steal. Rinse and repeat.
Even the midwest is no longer the laid-back and cheaper living. Grocery bills now equal 1/4th of your income per month for 2 adults with no kids. The cost of insurance, if you have to pay straight out, could equal almost 75% of your paycheck, which if you are a lower-wage contractor or holding two minimum wage jobs, is impossible to pay. I live in an area where public transporation is purposely sabotaged by the city, good luck on bicycles, as you are likely to die by everyone that thinks you should ride on the non-existent sidewalks and then run you over, or plain without a car, your live is damn-near unlivable.
Saying "if your job doesn't pay enough, go back to school." With what money? there's no loans, even for community colleges, and now that the economy is tanking, plus this state's fight against anything technologically advanced (Hint: we are just west of Iowa where our football team is proud of it's corn abilities), to the point where they have hindered fiber or telecommunications roll outs and upgrades, means unless you are some ignorant hick that barely can stave off addiction to fentanyl and work at a Mickey D's or Burger King, they don't want you, because you might vote to hold corrupt assholes accountable at state level that dumbs our entire population I.Q. So bad, they purposely pretty much gutted the Pell Grant to prevent people of color from being able to go to college.
This is what I'm seeing in the bread basket, and more and more, farmers are not being bought out, but bullied via regulation, off their land, so large Agg companies can basically steal it at low prices and it seems family and generationally-owned farming is becoming impossible to navigate.
I kind of wish our Governor and Senators in Kahoots would be eaten by the pig farms they run. Not only are they racist, but corrupt, as well as part of the Make America Get Ass-raped coalition, meaning stupidity is the one thing they foster of it's people, so they roll over and play nice.
Being immuno-compromised, Covid was even more hellish here, because I and my wife (she has asthma) were actually physically and verbally attacked for daring to wear a mask (even though due to her extreme asthma and I'm developing it, we end up having to wear masks even today, because smokers will set it off and we have to rush to our inhaler).
I feel things are going to get so bad, this country will devolve into a Civil War. I've picked the side I'll fight for if that happens, but maybe that might be what we need to drag the idiots and malice in power out of their seats to recover the land, and eventually (and hopefully) in the future, our dignity. Not because it's better for us, but for the world. And I don't think we need to be a super power, we were before. But on equal footing on the world stage. Not the dominator. I'm OK if the world currency isn't based on us, if we aren't the biggest military power. I don't have the hubris to believe we should be number 1. But we are about the OK'est third world country people ever visited. Now THAT'S an embaressment.
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I work a decent position in a very well known (sometimes hated) company
Who is it, ConAgra? Gallup? PayPal? They all have offices all over the world. Maybe they'll transfer you if you ask. With your current budget situation, you'll never "save up" enough money to do it on your own. It's a great big world out there and if you are unhappy, there's no time like now to do something about it.
I bumped into a guy last fall who up and left his dead-end job for a dead-end job as a ski lift attendant. Sure, he's not getting ahead as a lifty either, but he boards every day and is loving
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Sad story! Try talking over your situation with an LLM to see if leaving really would be impossible. It's not going to be easy for sure, but doing hard things is a great way of generating interesting life stories.
The current chapter in your life sounds bleak. It may be time to turn the page.
leave america (Score:2)
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Makes sense if you're never coming back. America is the only country that makes citizens living abroad pay taxes.
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Unless your net worth exceeded $2 million and you suddenly have to pay capital gains on everything the moment you give it up. Then you might consider paying the taxes to protect the growth of your assets.
Wonderful! (Score:5, Insightful)
I think that's wonderful news. Living in another country will broaden your horizons more than any other experience I can think of.
We are all people. We all live on one planet. The more we live in different places, and the more we get to be around people living here from other places, the better it will be for all of us.
This is not a call for open borders. Maybe, one day, when we are united as a planet. However, within the pathways that exist today: let's get to know each other more!
Shithole Country (Score:2)
Sinking ships (Score:3)
...usually are left.
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I'm in favor of deporting anyone with no native heritage from the US.
Re:No more immigration of CRIMINALS - a GOOD THING (Score:5, Funny)
That's about 340 million people.
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Well, I hope they take their trash with them.
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I'm in favor of deporting anyone with no native heritage from the US.
Are you saying that only Native Americans (Indians as they call themselves) should be allowed to stay? Where will all of us from European descent go? Space hasn't been opened up yet, and Europe would be flooded if they were even willing to accept most of us back.
Or are you one of those who believes the European settler heritage qualifies as native? Because it wasn't all that long ago us white people were the immigrants.
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They call themselves "Indians"? As opposed to the specific tribe they belong to - Navajo, Iroquois, Cherokee,... I know Columbus thought he landed in India, but did they think they live in India?
To avoid the dot-feather confusion, maybe India should formally do what other countries, like Burma, Swaziland, Upper Volta, Turkey... did and just officially - in English, not just in Hindi - change its name to Bharat, like it's called in most Sanskrit based languages. Leave the name "Indian" for pre-European
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They call themselves "Indians"? As opposed to the specific tribe they belong to - Navajo, Iroquois, Cherokee,... I know Columbus thought he landed in India, but did they think they live in India?
To avoid the dot-feather confusion, maybe India should formally do what other countries, like Burma, Swaziland, Upper Volta, Turkey... did and just officially - in English, not just in Hindi - change its name to Bharat, like it's called in most Sanskrit based languages. Leave the name "Indian" for pre-European natives of the Americas
When chatting with us white folks, they do refer to themselves as Indians collectively, since we've always treated them as a singular monolithic group. Once you get to know them and start speaking with them on a regular basis, they'll introduce you to their tribe and customs. The few I've been good friends with said they get so used to being seen as a monolith by most that they don't bother identifying themselves as anything other than "Indian" until they feel like they're being seen as actual people by the
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The problem with that is, how far do you go back?
2 generations, 5? 10? 100? What if you (or more probably, your ancestors) had no say in that. Having sub 3rd class tickets and arriving in chains.
Never mind that would actually mean deporting the FLOTUS. (FLOTUS is proof, immigrants will do the job that "real" americans won't do).
Disclaimer: Not American. Nor have I ever wanted to be.
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"COMMON SENSE right wing values see both as clearly bad. " Just what are those? The right wing value to shoot anyone they don't like? Setting up an Gestapo with surveillance powers over all Americans? The right wing value to determine local elections by banning those they do not like from voting? The right wing value to shit all over transsexuals because they just might use a bathroom of which they do not approve? The right wing value to screw over poor peoples healthcare? The right wing value to take their
Re:Let 'em go (Score:4)
Don't worry. If Trump has his way everyone's Social Security cheques will be cancelled.
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I will 100% give up my social security if the US let's me stop paying all US taxes the moment I leave US soil. The tax cost of giving up US citizenship is way more than I'll ever see in social security.
So you make that happen I'll leave today.
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Move to a country with a tax treaty with the US. Unless you're really earning a lot, you won't pay any taxes, although you will have to file a US tax return, because taxes are higher other places. If you're still paying US taxes, you're doing alright. I have a friend here in London who is a CFO, he has to pay taxes back in the US, but it's not that much and he's pretty flush and not bothered.
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I get wanting to move to another country but how do you have the security to do so? How do you make sure you have opportunities and secure jobs for multiple family members?
Well if you look for those interviews of Americans moving to Europe, you'll find some cases of people who are freelancing after building a portfolio of clients in the good markets all over the USA.
The one time I heard someone mention $ figures, it was someone from Kansas who made a career in web advertising there and in California. Now she works for the same sort of customers and was happy to find that for the same sort of rent she paid in Kansas she was living in Lisbon, a capital city with access to the b
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But, I am not American but I am enjoying watching the shit show that is Trump.
Not sure why 1/2 the country wants to be run by a pedo, but maybe that is now the "American Dream"...underage girls...
Meantime, the rest of the world is slowly pulling away from the USA.