Ruby On Rails Creator Backpedals About Bitcoin: 'We Need Crypto' (cointelegraph.com) 263
New submitter LZ_Mordan writes: David Heinemeier Hansson, the Ruby on Rails web development framework creator, took to Twitter on Monday to tell his followers that he was no longer a Bitcoin skeptic. "I still can't believe that this is the protest that would prove every Bitcoin crank a prophet. And for me to have to slice a piece of humble pie, and admit that I was wrong on crypto's fundamental necessity in Western democracies," Hansson wrote. In a blog post titled "I was wrong, we need crypto," the Danish programmer mentioned that he's been skeptical about Bitcoin and the crypto industry in general since the early 2010s.
He noted that some of his biggest arguments against Bitcoin were the cryptocurrency's energy consumption, transaction fees, the lack of real decentralization, supposed fraud involving Tether (USDT) stablecoin and many others. But all these arguments do not provide enough reasons to disregard cryptocurrencies as a tool to support freedom and democracy in situations where countries like Canada impose martial law in response to peaceful protest movements, Hansson argued, stating: "It's clear to me now that I was too hasty to completely dismiss crypto on the basis of all the things wrong with it at the moment. Instead of appreciating the fundamental freedom to transact that it's currently our best shot at protecting."
He noted that some of his biggest arguments against Bitcoin were the cryptocurrency's energy consumption, transaction fees, the lack of real decentralization, supposed fraud involving Tether (USDT) stablecoin and many others. But all these arguments do not provide enough reasons to disregard cryptocurrencies as a tool to support freedom and democracy in situations where countries like Canada impose martial law in response to peaceful protest movements, Hansson argued, stating: "It's clear to me now that I was too hasty to completely dismiss crypto on the basis of all the things wrong with it at the moment. Instead of appreciating the fundamental freedom to transact that it's currently our best shot at protecting."
What is this nonsense (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What is this nonsense (Score:5, Funny)
This is some random fool spouting uninformed drivel, are we reading it simply because he created a shitty web framework?
Yes.
Jesus.
I can't save you this time.
Re:What is this nonsense (Score:4, Insightful)
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Not even necessary. Until you can eat crypto, live in it, and drive around town in it, you're going to need physical assets the government can obtain a court order to seize. They don't have to go after your make-believe assets. As soon as you try to convert them into title to some tangible thing they've got you.
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> he created a shitty web framework
Indeed! RoR violates DRY, YAGNI, and KISS. Perhaps in a big org with heavy divisions of labor, it makes sense. But otherwise is bloat. MS copied it in MS MVC.net, and made it worse. (Granted, I haven't seen the latest versions.)
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In the Canadian case (Score:5, Insightful)
These idiots are the ones prolonging the pandemic with their selfishness, sociopathic tendencies, and stupidity.
Not sure how empowering them becomes a good cause. Maybe some other cases of rebellion could be justified, but this case does not make a good case for why crypto is needed? To reduce us to anti-intellectual gang-led anarchy? A good path?
Re:In the Canadian case (Score:5, Insightful)
This. What this guy calls a "peaceful protest" is what would in military jargon be called "laying siege" - this doesn't require violence, just blockading.
So in short, this asshat got all the technical reasons for opposing cryptocurrency correct, but he now thinks it's more important to be able to evade sanctions, specifically to support fascist/right-wing populist movements. I wonder how he'd feel about the way jihadists can benefit from the same uses, just for starters...
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They had every right to stand on the grounds of their capitol with their protest signs all day, all week, all month if they wanted.
They did not have any right to shut down the city and hold it for ransom.
Your freedoms end when they infringe upon someone else's freedoms.
Re: In the Canadian case (Score:2)
Re:In the Canadian case (Score:4, Insightful)
I believe it was Jefferson who said, "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will... within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others." You live in a society where your personal actions can have a significant impact on the health, safety, and well-being of others.
Personally, I think some people should spend a little less time whining about their "rights" and a little more on their personal responsibilities to the people around them.
I mean, even two-year olds eventually get past the."Me! Me! Me! Mine! Mine! Mine!" crap.
Re:In the Canadian case (Score:5, Insightful)
Wasn't this the same crowd wanting to run over protesters who block streets? Oh no it's different when we do it...
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Very well put. I will add that...
...the Danish programmer mentioned...
...when a small group of externally funded people start beating their drums about a philosophy that is a danger to themselves and others and who are very likely whipped up by pawns of foreign powers, when they take a couple hundred large trucks and block access to Copenhagen, that is when I suggest you become qualified to comment on our response.
Peaceful protest is a right. Imposing that protest on other people by any type of force (and creating a blockade is a use of for
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I had the same reaction as you did. "Really? A bunch of snowflakes protesting a meaningless issue is the reason we should support crypto?" Then I remembered this quote by Robert Heinlein:
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
Perhaps Mr Hansson is sympathizing with the wrong people, but the point is still valid. The argument in favor of crypto is the same as the argument for protecting encryption: they are tools protecting freedom. So while yes, criminals and scoundrels and fools will use those tools, but one day I might be labeled as such
Re: In the Canadian case (Score:2)
"Perhaps Mr Hansson is sympathizing with the wrong people, but the point is still valid."
No, it is not. His point was that he thinks that all the bad things about crypto currency are outweighed by the good things. But he is fundamentally wrong because it is unsustainable. That is the ultimate argument against anything. Its inefficiency is the reason why it is garbage.
Every reason people who are not trying to fuck over others wants crypto currency would better be solved by unfucking one's government. And in
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He's probably anti-vax (Score:3, Interesting)
Buddy of mine got hit up for a job by an old coworker, found out said coworker was anti-vax and immediately blocked him. Not because of any moral outrage, but because if you're dumb enough to fall for anti-vax nonsense you're probably not somebody I want to be recommending for a job.
I get that these people are victims, but back in my day if you believed something that was contrary to all scientific consensus and lit
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In the case of this fascist cosplay parade, how did they benefit from Bitcoin? Did they pay in Bitcoin when they took a lunch break at the nearest McD because the Canadian government had banned the use of dollars? Did they fill up at a gas station that takes Bitcoin so the government can't track the movement of their vehicle (that has license plates front and back)? I somehow doubt it.
Or was it just that the "protesters" were paid to be there by some moneyed interests who wish to remain anonymous, and we're
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Almost every square inch of the protest was livestreamed for weeks. Clearly you didn't watch any of it because I did and I saw huge numbers of sikhs, immigrants from places like egypt and former USSR countries, a large number of indigenous members of the first nations, and plenty of black canadians. If anything the protests were disproportionately non-white compared to the general population of Canada, which isn't surprising since the protests were overwhelmingly working class people.
Wanting the government
Re:In the Canadian case (Score:4, Insightful)
The pandemic isn't being "prolonged", the pandemic is over. It's BEEN over for a year now.
As of last week here in my province we still had so many people in hospital that other non-urgent procedures were still be cancelled. Fortunately Omicron has not filled up the ICUs, but it has taken up more of the other hospital beds than any variant so far.
So if you have been, and still are waiting for cataract removal or a hip replacement, it is not really "over".
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These idiots are the ones prolonging the pandemic with their selfishness, sociopathic tendencies, and stupidity.
How are they prolonging the pandemic? Are you saying if they didn't protest then COVID would disappear in the foreseeable future? If anything slowing the progress of the pandemic is what will prolong it.
If these people want to increase their risk of death by not getting vaccinated then let them. Some of them are violent sure, but just because society performs its violence by proxy through the police doesn't make society any less violent.
To me the COVID is here to stay, we tried to keep it out here in New Ze
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Re:In the Canadian case (Score:5, Interesting)
Those protesters don't even understand how their government works. All the lockdowns and vaccine mandates were handed down at the provincial level. Trudeau has zero to do it. Plus they're mad that the USA is requiring vaccines for truckers crossing the border. So the solution is to blockade Ottawa?
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Keep in mind one of the leaders of the protest told a judge that she was expressing her First Amendment Rights and the judge said "what's that?". Quick research shows something about Manitoba having a right to exist, but just wow.
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That was Kenny, the conservative premier of Alberta.
Re: In the Canadian case (Score:2)
"Remember how many billions was spent disinfecting surfaces and we find out it doesnt spread on surfaces. Did the science change?"
Yes. Next willfully ignorant leading question, please.
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So yeah, back when we basically knew nothing about the disease we thought that it might spread via surface contact and that transmission wasn't predominately airborne.
After study, we learned otherwise. News flash. That's how "science" works. We learn more, and we move on.
As to getting the vaccine, don't. Pfizer would just love to sell you a monoclonal antibody treatment at about 150x the cost of a shot.
No. No we don't (Score:2)
The execs just want to scam you out of your money.
Re:No. No we don't [scam anyone!] (Score:2)
How did Truth Social get dragged into this? [I confess. I did it! But it's been praying on my mind lately...]
Anyway, I'm certain that Truth Social will gladly take your Bitcoins and any other scam currencies besides.
The "freedom" explanation only convinces me that Hannson has little to no understanding of what freedom means. "Free speech" is important, but only weakly correlated to freedom in any meaningful way. Proof of concept? I bet one of the quickest ways to get banned on Truth Social will be to use th
Crypto or Pyramid Scheme? (Score:2, Interesting)
Sounds like someone is sitting on a loss... (Score:2)
..and needs some pumping before he can dump!
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Dumb people everywhere (Score:3)
Democracy predates bitcoin. Hell it predates the USoffuckingEyh. And democracy will exist long after bitcoin is forgotten and filed under the moronic period of history.
Questions to aid David in critical thinking:
Does bitcoin exist now? Yes.
Did the democratically elected government invoke the Emergencies Act against the Freedom Convoy? Yes.
Ergo, despite the fact you don't like something (which is incidentally widely unpopular) bitcoin has done fuck all to prevent what you complain about. Your logic is stupid and you should feel stupid.
Crypto currencies ARE NOT FUCKING CRYPTO (Score:5, Insightful)
Crypto is cryptography. Specifically a suite of algorithm types which implement mathematical transformations on data for the purposes of concealment, authentication and identification. Am I the only one who thinks people referring to crypto-currencies as "crypto" sound like imbeciles? (Although I'm hardly surprised that the guy responsible for the shit-fest that is Ruby on Rails is doing so.)
Second, we need volatile-value digital currencies like we need a hole in the head. Bitcoin is another tulip and it has no purpose other than to enable money-laundering and allow people with money to bilk cash out of idiots who think "crypto is a great investment." It's not. Crypto has no underlying real-world value, nor does it have a mapping onto something of real world value. Consequently it cannot be used as actual currency instead of speculative currency. Getting paid in crypto is like instant gambling with the value of the payment varying depending upon crypto currency volatility and your ability to swap it for something of ACTUAL value.
Third, cryptocurrency isn't going to save you from government drones. The idea that it somehow represents freedom is so fundamentally brain-dead I can only conclude it's the product of a third-grade education combined with a diet of conspiracy theories. Cryptocurrency is self-referential zero value nonsense until you can map it onto real-world value. You could argue that people could use it for barter but without a reference value, that system is going to collapse pretty quickly.
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> Am I the only one who thinks people referring to crypto-currencies as "crypto" sound like imbeciles?
Yes.
In fact, moaning about this makes *you* sound like an imbecile.
Hmmm... (Score:2)
it looks like the crypto crowd has gone beyond movie stars to pitch their wares. How many BTC did they pay you off with David Heinemeier Hansson?
The concept of cryptocurrency is good.. (Score:2)
.the current implementations just suck. There absolutely is a need to be able to send digital cash to anyone, anywhere, without being told by some bank that they're unhappy with the recipient of your money. The Canada trucker drama was a bad example, due to the partisan issues involved (TFS is basically flamebait). That being said, anyone who has seen the situation with legal pot dispensaries is aware that the traditional banking industry has its faults.
The problem comes along when people use a legitimat
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I would argue the concept of cryptocurrency is completely stupid. The concept of blockchain can be very useful, but not for anything like currency.
Its limitations are far too many to be adopted as actual currency.
Going full-crackpot (Score:2)
Pushing bitcoin = bought the dip (Score:3)
Canada didn't "impose marital law" (Score:3)
And you've already got a decentralized currency. It's called cash. That's as decentralized as it gets. If you think you can have a completely peer to peer currency you don't know what currency manipulation is or why there are laws against it. And you don't understand how market consolidation works. Crypto will inevitably centralize because that's just what complex human/social networks do. We counter that with Democracy and education. Not by coming up with technobabble complexities.
This is the trouble with programmers, when you're only tool's a hammer every problem's a nail. They desperately want to solve all the world's problems with code.
It doesn't work that way. You can't code a plumbing and sewer system, and there are just sometimes when you have to get in there and get your hands dirty. Financial markets are one of those times.
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You have this backwards. BLM and Antifa were allowed to burn entire cities to the ground without any real opposition. Hell when people were targeting churches to try and commit mass murder and burn everyone inside to death Trudeau tweeted his love and sympathy for the terrorists doing it.
They also weren't peaceful in the slightest. There's overwhelming video evidence of extreme police brutality to the point the cops staged a freaking cavalry charge into a peaceful crowd of people, nearly murdering a disable
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...when you're only tool's...
I doubt this one was intentional, but I agree that the guy is a tool.
Look I'm not judging (Score:2)
DHH wants to destabilize democracy. (Score:2)
Tell me you are in favor of funding an insurrection attempt in favor of right wing fascism without telling me you are in favor of funding it.
Sickening.
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Sikhs, egyptians, kuwaitis, eastern european immigrants, and indigenous elders from the first nations having bouncy houses and barbecues are not an "insurrection".
Seizing autocratic power while overthrowing the courts and charter of rights and then saying you want to make those powers permanent is an insurrection.
I love crypto, but I hate Bitcoin BTC (Score:2)
I love the ideals of crypto and the possibility of getting out from under the thumb of the government banking system. But Bitcoin BTC sure ain't the way to do it.
Bitcoin BTC is a government surveillance wet dream. We need a crypto that has real privacy built in and can replace cash.
I believe that until everyone finally give's up on Bitcoin BTC, crypto will never go anywhere or be adopted.
Quote from a protester (Score:2)
And that's what cryptocurrencies did for the protests.
Ruby Off the Rails (Score:2)
Seizing the property and funds of those involved and supporting the convoy is legally justified. In Canada, section 83.01 of the Criminal Code defines terrorism as an act committed "in whole or in part for a political, religious or ideological purpose, objective or cause" with the intention of intimidating the public.
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.c... [justice.gc.ca]
an act or omission, in or outside Canada, that is committed in whole or in part for a political, religious or ideological purpose, objective or cause, and in whole or in part with the intention of intimidating the public, or a segment of the public, with regard to its security, including its economic security, or compelling a person, a government or a domestic or an international organization to do or to refrain from doing any act, whether the public or the person, government or organization is inside or outside Canada, and that intentionally ... causes a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or any segment of the public, causes substantial property damage, whether to public or private property, if causing such damage is likely to result in the conduct or harm referred to in any of clauses (A) to (C), or causes serious interference with or serious disruption of an essential service, facility or system, whether public or private, other than as a result of advocacy, protest, dissent or stoppage of work that is not intended to result in the conduct or harm referred to in any of clauses (A) to (C),
When the truckers clogged up the streets of Ottowa for a day, it was a novel protest. Settling in, laying on the horn at all hours, and refusing to move their
Crypto = bullshit (Score:2)
Putting aside the specifics about Canada.. (Score:2)
So he has a scenario he finds troubling. So does Bitcoin help those on the wrong end of Canadian government action?
Well, for one, I haven't heard reports about restricting any sort of monetary spend. So there doesn't actually seem to be anything on the financial side of this scenario that is even in theory in need of relief.
Let's imagine though that it was an authoritarian move that including the spending explicitly. Do folks imagine that the 'bad guys' will stop oppression when you say 'oh, I'm not using
The problem is volitiality. (Score:2)
People are not buying stuff with Crypto, they are just buying Crypto and holding onto it, then selling it when they think the price has peaked.
They sell Crypto for a less volatile currency like the USD. While the price is going up, little are going to be stupid to sell their Crypto unless they have to, because they don't want to be the guy who bought the first Pizza with 10,000 bitcoin only 12 years ago.
For Crypto to be a good source of money, it needs to be steady, where 1 bit coin can buy me something, an
I wonder if he's trolling (Score:2)
This is almost too perfect. You'd think it's a false flag ... like someone waving a Nazi flag at a demonstration ;)
It's more general (Score:2, Insightful)
"Canada" is a drop in a bucket. The real trouble is the slow phasing out of cash and the ever tighter scrutiny of financial services. Affecting everyone, not just the rich and powerful. In fact, everyone else is affected much worse.
We do need something and bitcoin was the first approximation that looked like it might work.
That doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep looking for something better. Because frankly, bitcoin sucks, its code sucks, its governance (they got nicknamed "the power rangers" for a reason
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Sure, that's easy to say but trying to enact a currency, (which is not an investment vehichle but a means of exchange) that is both trusted on a nationwide or even global level, backed with some sort of guarantee (and yes fiat currency is backed even if not with an amorphus physical commodity) that can also be transacted billions of times per day is not a simple matter and one that crypto as we know it today is far, far, far behind.
There is a reason currencies are the realm of nation states and not ad-hoc t
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Well that's part of living inside a nation state with all the benefits and drawbacks that come with it.
If you want to start your own communal area on your own property and engage in nothing but bartering you are in fact allowed to do it. Disney was able to make "Disney dollars" and use them in their parks, there are just rules they had to follow. You can't have your cake and eat it to, if you want all your benefits of your own currency and still exchange it for some value of fiat state currency without fo
Is there something else going on in Canada? (Score:5, Insightful)
All I know is that there were a bunch of ignorant hillbillies acting like whiny toddlers throwing a tantrum because they didn't want to get a vaccination.
Thankfully, the leadership there finally grew a pair and are breaking it up.
If there's something else going on that relates to cryptocurrency, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
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nope this is pretty much it.
Re:Is there something else going on in Canada? (Score:5, Insightful)
There were a bunch of whiney types who didn't want to get vaccinated AND wanted to cross an international border without having to be tested or quarantine. Something that very few western countries are allowing, including the one they wanted to cross into.
Re:Is there something else going on in Canada? (Score:5, Informative)
Oh yes, there's that ... plus the fact that they were backed by several very alt-right organizations (with ties to white supremacy and accelerationist groups) who called for the replacement of a democratically-elected government with their own members. And let's not forget the funding from numerous alt-right Christian groups flowing across the border. The "whiney-types" occupied our capital city for over 3 weeks (it wasn't a normal protest in that they obstructed the entire downtown of Ottawa), subjecting the residents to 100 dB+ truck horns day and night, intimidated local residents, blocked the US/Canada border in several locations for days, preventing the movement of goods and causing multiple manufacturing plants to shut down due to lack of parts.
(I forgot to mention that at the border blockade in Alberta, a large number of weapons and body armour were discovered and several "protestors" have been charged with conspiracy to commit murder).
So yeah, it was more than just a bunch of truckers who didn't want to be vaccinated. And the interesting thing about that, which you touched on, is that the vaccine mandate was only required for truckers crossing into the US (or a quarantine upon return). If you drove within Canada, no vaccination required. And regardless of Canadian law, the *US* required all incoming Canadian truckers to be vaccinated anyhow, making the potential removal of the Canadian mandate a moot point. 90+% of all of our truckers are vaccinated, and the major trucking unions and companies actively spoke out against the protest/occupation.
No, this wasn't about vaccinations or truckers. They were pawns. It was a very poor attempt to try and overthrow a federal government for things outside of its control (many of the COVID restrictions they claimed to "protest" were in fact made by provincial governments, not the federal one).
Also, DHH is outright wrong re: "martial law". The law that was activated was our Emergencies Act, which replaced the old "War Measures Act" (which *was* marital law). The Emergencies Act is limited in scope, time-limited, did not activate the military, did not remove any rights and freedoms from Canadians, and automatically triggered a debate of the law's use in Parliament. Speaking of which, we have more than 2 political parties sitting in Parliament at the moment (4 main ones), and Justin Trudeau's Liberal party has a minority government - which means they need support from other parties in order to pass law (ie: Trudeau is many things, but he is not, by definition / successful activation of this law, any kind of a dictator).
DHH is a misinformed and/or ignorant idiot.
Re:Is there something else going on in Canada? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yup, I should have said it *started* with a small number of whiney truckers. The majority of truckers were hurt by this, especially the ones held up at the border crossings. They may find themselves even more hurt... some smart cookie in the Globe and Mail today broached the "you know, we have these things called trains..." topic.
And as soon as you have some vocal patsies the nuts see an opportunity to get involved and whip everything into a frenzy. A bit of propaganda, and you've got a few hundred people, enough so the pictures on Facebook make it look and sound like a popular movement. A bit more propaganda and (on Facebook and Slashdot) it sounds like the cops arresting some people for parking in the middle of the street is the breakdown of Western Democracy (Internet Crank Capitalization Included).
Re:Is there something else going on in Canada? (Score:5, Insightful)
You've got the order of events wrong. The whole thing was an engineered propaganda stunt. It wasn't a "grass-roots" protest that got hijacked by the nutters (neo-nazis, white supremacists, christian fascists), it was astro-turfed by them from the start.
I hope they impounded their trucks too. It's not as if that's unknown or even uncommon for illegally parked vehicles.
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sounds like fukerbergs new company ad. meh
Re: Is there something else going on in Canada? (Score:3)
Why don't you tell us what was inaccurate about the post you responded to? Sounded pretty much spot on to me. The protesters did not have just cause for their actions.
Re:I don't know ... (Score:5, Insightful)
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the trolls have all the mod points?
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Of course. The trolls, professional and otherwise, all have dozens of accounts.
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I didn't like the protesters' cause either, and the government was right to tow the obstructing rigs away so that Ottawa can get back to work. But when Trudeau went fascist by tossing protesters out of the banking system and stealing their money, I say he richly deserves any adverse politics that may be in store for him. And getting people fired for making small donations to the protest movement is weird beyond all comprehension.
Canada needs a Bill of Rights.
Re:I don't know ... (Score:4, Informative)
Canada needs a Bill of Rights.
Uh, they already have one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re:I don't know ... (Score:5, Insightful)
The jabs are not forced. They are free to choose not to get the vaccine, it is not at all mandated.
But don't ask to be treated the same as vaccinated folks, because clearly you're not.
It's the same argument as smoking. There's no smoking in restaurants, but the government isn't forcing anyone to quit. If you want to smoke, you have to do it away from others.
Re:I don't know ... (Score:5, Informative)
He's absolutely wrong about what is happening in Canada.
The only reason you might call what they were doing a "peaceful protest" is that they weren't being physically violent.
They did however block traffic, even internationally, they blew horns night and day to disrupt the lives of those around them, they prevented emergency vehicles (ambulance and fire) from getting to where they needed to go from the barricades, ...
This is not the equivalent of someone chaining themselves to a tree to prevent it from being cut down or having a sit in in someone's office or even kids camping in open areas as an Occupy Wallstreet protest...
This was a concerted effort to shut down an economy because they didn't like Covid restrictions.
Even the martial law complaints are invalid; if the roads weren't completely blocked, there would not have been the need for martial law.
If you burn down someone's house, you can't complain when the fire trucks show up to put it out...
You can protest like that (Score:3, Insightful)
When you try that, assuming your gov't isn't run by imbeciles, they just wait a bit until you've pissed off the community, started running out of money and sup
Re:I don't know ... (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, DHH is absolutely wrong about what is happening in Canada. His claim that martial law was enacted here is entirely false.
The law that the federal government activated (after waiting 3 weeks for the municipal and provincial governments to do something) is called the Emergencies Act. It is not martial law - at least not in the way DHH means it. The Emergencies Act replaced the old "War Measures Act" in 1988. The War Measures Act *was* what you would think of as marital law (activated the military, restricted citizens rights across the entire country, etc).
The Emergencies Act was designed by the Conservative govt in 1988 exactly because the War Measures Act was incredible overreach. Key things that make the Emergencies Act different:
1. Implementation of the Act automatically triggers a debate in Parliament as to whether the Act is appropriate (this becomes important - see "minority government" below)
2. It's time-limited (it can only be in place for 30 days or less unless Parliament *and* the Senate approves an extension).
3. All provinces and territories *must* be consulted before the declaration is implemented.
4. It does *not* override the rights established in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Citizens retain their rights.
5. Within 7 days the House of Commons and Senate review and vote on the implementation of the Act. If it fails either vote, the Act is revoked that day.
6. A joint committee is established between the House and Senate to review the Government's actions on an ongoing basis.
7. An inquiry much be help within 365 days after the expiration or revocation of the Act.
In this particular case, the Act was geographically limited to the area affected by the occupation (downtown Ottawa immediately in front of the Parliament buildings, and the border crossings), and only to those participating in what was already defined to be an illegal occupation under existing municipal and provincial laws.
Importantly: The military was *not* activated in any way, shape or form. No rights were taken away from Canadians.
Finally: In Canada we have multiple political parties in our Parliament - it's not just Liberals and Conservatives. We also have the NDP and Bloc Québécois (among others). Each holds a % of the seats in Parliament.
The current Liberal government, under Justin Trudeau, has less than 50% of the seats of Parliament - aka a "minority government". They can't pass any laws without the assistance of the other parties. So despite what you might read on some US news sites about Trudeau's "tyranny", the EA is in effect expressly because at least one other party (in this case the NDP) supported it.
So no. Canada isn't under martial law. Canadians haven't lost any freedoms. Justin Trudeau, while he has *many* issues, literally *cannot* be a dictator under the current government, and DHH doesn't know what he's talking about.
As to why it took the municipal and provincial governments so long to do anything, it's complicated. Ottawa's municipal government is dysfunctional and has been for years - I don't think they knew how to handle the event. And as for the province of Ontario - the current premier (like a US governor) is up for election this year, is Conservative, and was politically motivated to not do anything and make it a federal government problem.
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pfft you block capital anywhere in the world and the government is going to slap you the fuck down. The truck convoy people had everything going for them until they blocked a major trade artery and neo-nazi idiots tried to co-opt them.
Re:More detail (Score:5, Informative)
That seems pretty reasonable to me (Score:2, Informative)
If you are basing your "facts" about account freezing on this crazy-ass MP's tweet
We know for a fact they have frozen hundreds of bank accounts now. We know for a fact some of them are people who have simply donated... why is what he's saying unlikely?
The fact he didn't use the real first name of the person who donated means he has common sense, not that he should not be believed. From past experience anyone who is doxxed in cases like these would fear for her life. Saying that tweet is crazy, is what re
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> We know for a fact they have frozen hundreds of bank accounts now. We
But that is not what you said. You said:
"even if they donated before the protests were declared illegal"
Do you have a reference for that or not?
> the veracity of that one tweet alone is irrelevant to the larger question
I'm pretty much sure that rumormongering is *rather* central to the larger question. After all, the entire argument of the freedom convoy was based on precisely that.
> If the Republicans take power would you take
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More to the point: there is no donor by the name Brianne in BC [www.cbc.ca], and he refuses to provide evidence ...
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Absolutely!
This whole Freedom Convoy thing is fueled by, and built upon baseless conspiracy theories.
Did you see the woman arguing with an Ottawan saying : "Do you know ONE PERSON died of COVID"? (The Ottawan replied: my father).
Or the man in a funny hat saying: "I want Trudeau, and those pulling his strings, out".
Or the other woman saying "Trudeau sold us to the Globalists".
There is no shared reality or shared fac
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No, he's basing his facts on what the Prime Minister and his regime have literally flat out said they were going to do in public press conferences. Unless you're saying the Prime Minister and his own cabinet are not trustworthy sources for what they are doing, intend to continue doing, and have explicitly said they want to retain the power to do permanently.
Re:More detail (Score:4, Insightful)
Well in all fairness if you donate money to an organization who announced they will be committing crimes and then act shocked when the government comes knocking, you might be just be a dumbass.
Re:More detail (Score:4, Insightful)
The RCMP, banking sector and federal government said Monday that account-freezing powers bestowed under the Emergencies Act to help authorities deal with convoy protests do not affect donors to the protests, despite unsubstantiated claims by a Conservative MP that a constituent had her bank account frozen over a $50 contribution.
From the Globe and Mail. [apple.news]
Also, the Emergencies Act does not impose 'martial law' of any kind. In effect, it allows the RCMP to enforce LOCAL bylaws. Basically, it makes it possible to get trucks towed for parking violations because the Ottawa Police couldn't do it. One might argue that we don't need to deputize the national police force to enforce local laws, but on the other hand, they weren't getting enforced.
The Emergencies Act does not suspend in any part any Canadian's Charter Rights, and was specifically designed around maintaining Charter Rights, unlike the War Measures Act that it replaced.
Most Canadians currently approve this usage of the Act and think that it should have been trotted out weeks ago. These are not protests, they're an occupation and an assault on the rights of ordinary citizens to live in their city. They've been subjected to street harassment and unending noise for weeks on end. On the first weekend, these so-called truckers (90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated and are not participating in this action) defaced national monuments and invaded a soup kitchen.
I would like to remind you that the motto of Canada is 'Peace, Order and Good Government'. I do not care about your American perspective on the political situation here.
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Ottawa is completely locked down with hundreds of checkpoints and summary arrests of anyone, especially independent journalists, Trudeau's administration dislikes. There is an overwhelming amount of video evidence proving this. This is martial law.
Trudeau is by his own admission summarily arresting his political enemies and seizing all of their finances, without trial. He has also rescinded the right to protest, to gather, to travel within canada, and to leave the country and only permits those rights to hi
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It does seem like most of the motivation behind the use of the act was that Ottawa's police and city council were largely incompetent and some adults needed to be in charge.
The anti-laundering laws are probably more than enough to investigate the far right nuts egging everything on.
This could probably all have been avoided if Ottawa took some of the sensible precautions other cities did. Or if a few people in compact cars got out in front of the convoy and passed each other very, very slowly....
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This apocryphal story is just like the woman that got trampled by the RCMP horses... a lie that is half way around the world carried like wildfire across the minds conspiratorial enthusiasts before anyone thought hey let's check this story out and see if it is true.
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Nothing that has happened warranted the level of response that has happened.
I rather suspect that if a large group of belligerent people set up a semi-permanent camp surrounding your home you would be less forgiving.
FoaF! [Re:Seized account and crushed truck] (Score:3, Insightful)
A friend of a friend...
Important note: never believe any anecdote that begins with a sincere assurance that this really happened, it happened to "a friend of a friend".
(and particularly not when the anecdoter can't even guess right the first try about whether that friend of a friend is a male or a female.)
https://www.jstor.org/stable/2... [jstor.org]
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The hilarious thing is the GP can't even decide whether this good friend is a him or a her.
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Yeah and I'm betting none of this actually happened.
Meanwhile, I'd just like to point out that the French government has in fact gifted me the Eiffel Tower and I have decided to make it available for purchase.
All bids must be accompanied by a 10% deposit to my Bitcoin wallet. Unsuccessful bids will be returned once the USD price of Bitcoin drops by a minimum of 25%.
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The legendary FOAF. This was a sure sign of a hoax with urban legends, and the rule seems intact with pseudonymous Internet postings.
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So, you're saying a government crushed a working automobile with working parts after it being impounded for less than a week?
Seems very implausible.
No information comes up searching for any of the name and location mentioned either even though I am sure if this were true there would be lots of drama posts on social media.
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Man, I'm hearing a ton of stories about how these "peaceful protestors" are being gulaged on Slashdot. Yet, funnily enough, actually speaking with people that live in or around where the protests are happening, the stories are almost universally that the protestors are causing all sorts of issues. People being spit on. Attempts to light buildings on fire (but the people doing it are too inept to keep a fire burning). Honking all night long in residential neighborhoods. People with the "wrong" color ski
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To be fair they didn't use emergencies act because of a "nazi flag". That's an easy scapegoat. They did it becuase the blockage was stopping commerce. A lot of money in trade passes over the border each day and the people who profit from that trade simply will not tolerate having it interrupted.
You can wave your flags all you want but when you starting interrupting industry governments will hear about it from the bourgeois class and will listen.
Thats why even though I would consider myself definitely lef
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Was a fed. It was clear he walked behind some other people who had no idea he was there, quickly brought the flag out for his accomplice perfectly positioned across the street to take a perfectly timed photo.
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Yes I'm sure the young person wearing a covid mask with dyed hair who went out of his way to try and convince anyone he could talk to that he was from the protestors outside couldn't possibly have been anything but the world's dumbest arsonist. It makes perfect sense that he would go out of his way to try and tell everyone he could who he was and where he was from while committing arson. It's not possible at all that was just someone trying to make them look bad.
Someone, say, from the group of people so vio