Intel Apologizes In China Over Xinjiang Statement (cnn.com) 156
AltMachine writes: Intel has apologized in China following a backlash over a directive to suppliers not to source products or labor from the Xinjiang region where "forced labors" are allegedly occurring, though critics pointed out that the claims are based on dubious researches made by groups with backing from China's geopolitical rivals US and NATO. "Although our original intention was to ensure compliance with US laws, this letter has caused many questions and concerns among our cherished Chinese partners, which we deeply regret," the company said in a statement on Weibo, a Twitter-like service. In the statement, Intel explicitly denies taking any position on the controversial matters. Chinese pop star Wang Junkai, the brand ambassador for Intel Core, announced Wednesday that he had cut all ties with Intel over its statement, saying "national interests are above all else." On Thursday, Zhao Lijian, a spokesperson for China's foreign ministry, said that "claims related to Xinjiang, such as forced labor" are "lies by US's anti-China forces." In an email to CNN Business, an Intel spokesperson said the company would continue to ensure its global sourcing complies with applicable laws and regulations in the United States and in other jurisdictions.
Money before human rights (Score:5, Insightful)
Shame on you Intel - caving in to the oppressive, totalitarian government in China.
Re:Money before human rights (Score:5, Informative)
Forced labour is just part of the issue too, whole families are imprisoned in squalid conditions to be 're-educated', the females are raped, over a million are in detention camps. Life is also hell for those not in prisons, surveillance levels are extreme.
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First and foremost Xinjiang is the site of all new China ICBM silos including the ones where the transcontinental hypersonic gliders (the analogue of the Russian Avangard) will go. The whole constant drumroll of publications about the horrors of Chinese oppression over the Poor Uigur minority started literally a couple of months since the discovery of the first
Does the root matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody used to give a flying f*ck about forced labour there
Regardless of why the plight of the Uigur was uncovered, it doesn't mean we should ignore it now because of an initial geopolitical overlay.
It seems especially poor not only to continue to ignore it, but in fact reward it via toadying behavior and continued investment... even as we try to cancel people and companies that are harmless.
Re:Money before human rights (Score:5, Interesting)
In real world on the other hand, Gulag Archipelago basically destroyed any mainstream credibility Marxism and Communism had for two decades in the West by utterly demolishing any credibility it had.
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In real world on the other hand, Gulag Archipelago basically destroyed any mainstream credibility Marxism and Communism had for two decades in the West by utterly demolishing any credibility it had.
Ok, as long as you agree that Guantanamo, immigrant concentration camps on the US southern border, South American death squads under the likes of Pinochet, McCarthyism, the holocaust, the Belgian Congo, the Haymarket Massacre, the Pinkertons, US chattel slavery, etc discredit capitalism. Or we could admit that repressive authoritarianism is orthogonal to the economic system it happens to be practiced adjacent to.
Re:Money before human rights (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's grant you all of those. Every single one. Then let's take the numbers and double them, just to be on the safe side. Then let's even pretend that people in the "immigrant concentration camps" are worked to death gulag style en masse, slowly, in conditions of Soviet Gulags. Every single one of them. And let's even assume that those immigrants were actually citizens of the state.
Yes, these notions are absurd, because nothing of the sort is happening. But for the sake of argument let's make your utterly awful, anti-truth statement that Soviet Gulags and events you're running your mouth about are pretty much the same thing and assume that it's actually all true.
And then, let's compare the numbers. And come out with the same conclusion as the original argument I made.
It is genuinely unfortunate that genocidal far left that was so thoroughly discredited has fallen out of public memory, and that there are modern idiots who genuinely believe there are things that are as horrible as Soviet Gulags going on in places like US right now.
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In real world on the other hand, Gulag Archipelago basically destroyed any mainstream credibility Marxism and Communism had for two decades in the West by utterly demolishing any credibility it had.
Ok, as long as you agree that Guantanamo, immigrant concentration camps on the US southern border, South American death squads under the likes of Pinochet, McCarthyism, the holocaust, the Belgian Congo, the Haymarket Massacre, the Pinkertons, US chattel slavery, etc discredit capitalism. Or we could admit that repressive authoritarianism is orthogonal to the economic system it happens to be practiced adjacent to.
Why would the Holocaust, a crime perpetrated by National Socialist Germany's Worker's Party discredit capitalism?
Re:Money before human rights (Score:4, Informative)
In real world on the other hand, Gulag Archipelago basically destroyed any mainstream credibility Marxism and Communism had for two decades in the West by utterly demolishing any credibility it had.
Ok, as long as you agree that Guantanamo, immigrant concentration camps on the US southern border, South American death squads under the likes of Pinochet, McCarthyism, the holocaust, the Belgian Congo, the Haymarket Massacre, the Pinkertons, US chattel slavery, etc discredit capitalism. Or we could admit that repressive authoritarianism is orthogonal to the economic system it happens to be practiced adjacent to.
Why would the Holocaust, a crime perpetrated by National Socialist Germany's Worker's Party discredit capitalism?
Because they were capitalist.
Is the Democratic People's Republic of (North) Korea a democracy... or for the people.
By the way, the Nazis never called themselves Nazis... In fact after the 20's they weren't even the National Socialist party (which in German at the time meant "social" as in community, not as in "socialist", it started out as a workers club that was co-opted by far right racists), by that time they were calling themselves "German". Nazi is a term the German exiles gave them and the media was happy to run with. Oh also, the first targets of the Nazis were the Bolsheviks, the brown shirts beat the crap out of them before the 20s, then they went after the trade unionists (ironic given their origins)... So tell me again how socialist were they... or perhaps you best remain silent lest you demonstrate your ignorance again.
Also waiting for the professionally offended to get their knickers in a twist over me calling Nazis "racist"... not like that wasn't the only real difference between a Nazi and a regular garden variety Fascist.
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Uhm, that's literally the *definition* (Score:2)
Aside from what others have pointed out about how ridiculous your statement is, let's look at the definitions of the terms, shall we.
Free market - you offer to build me a table for $150. I accept. You build the table, I pay you the $150. Free market - we are free to engage in market (business) transactions.
Contrast communism, which defined as the government controls the production of goods, and buying and selling.
The government tells you you must spend your days making guns, not tables. The government set
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Note:
Ok, as long as you agree that Guantanamo, immigrant concentration camps on the US southern border, South American death squads under the likes of Pinochet, McCarthyism, the holocaust, the Belgian Congo, the Haymarket Massacre, the Pinkertons, US chattel slavery, etc discredit capitalism. Or we could admit that repressive authoritarianism is orthogonal to the economic system it happens to be practiced adjacent to.
Also, as an aside, and in the same vein, there aren't any Marxist or communist economies. We just have economies that lean strongly one way or the other. Pointing out the lack of either of these things may help you win the "I'm an annoying pedant" word battle, but it is neither a particularly insightful observation nor a usef
Re: Money before human rights (Score:2)
That's not true, capitalism means free markets. Free markets means prices are governed only by the forces of supply and demand. That's exactly what we have.
Compare that to say, Venezuela, where the government decides the price of everything, and then wonders why they have a chronic undersupply of everything, and the only reliable means of getting anything is through black market deals where there are no price controls.
Even then, that isn't enough to become socialist. In socialism not only do you need this,
Re: Money before human rights (Score:2)
What do you mean? This was all over the news over a decade ago -
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... [wikipedia.org]Ãoerümqi_riots
China has always acted poorly with regards to treatment of ethnic minorities, and everybody that doesn't toe the party line, like in Hong Kong.
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The whole constant drumroll of publications about the horrors of Chinese oppression over the Poor Uigur minority started literally a couple of months since the discovery of the first base on satellite pictures. Prior to that - nobody heard of them.
Gotta love the multiple lies contained within this quote. !) That there is any connection to the satellite pictures of the ICBM bases 2)That people only got angry about it a couple of months ago. In reality, the argument over it started over a decade ago, and warmed up when satellite pictures of the concentration camps were released several years ago. As for why it is now acceptable to report on it, that is because Trump is no longer in office, and it is now acceptable for the leftist media to mildly criti
Factually false (Score:4, Informative)
Late 2014:
First international condemnations of China's actions regarding the Uyghurs.
July 2019:
22 countries issue a joint letter to the 41st session of the United Nations Human Rights Council condemning China's mass detention of Uyghurs and other minorities.
2021 - they started building the silo field.
I know you wouldn't intentionally spread lies, so now that you know better I'm sure you'll correct anyone who says bullshit like that.
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Veronica: "Money before people." That's the company motto. Engraved on the lobby floor. It just looks more heroic in Latin.
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No, no, the GP has a point. It's all lies. "The Grey Zone", Slashdot's source, says so, and that's clearly a reputable source [wikipedia.org]!
Re:Money before human rights (Score:5, Insightful)
How are you able to type when you have Xi the Pooh's cock shoved so far down your throat?
Let's go, Xidon (Score:2)
China just look bad when it forces the kowtow
Intel (Score:5, Insightful)
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Does AMD have an Atom replacement yet? Desktop and server is good enough.
Re: Intel (Score:2)
People use the Atom processor? Thought it was a niche product which disappeared long ago.
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And governments nice to them will be bullied by these companies.
And we use the entire might and the faith and credit of the US Government to shore up the stock market and bail out these companies. While inflation is killing the common man in the street, we exclude the cost of food and energy from inflation calculations.
Once the corporations become more powerful than the government, the threat to our liberty and freedom comes from these corporations, go
Re:Intel (Score:4, Informative)
Bowing to the CCP
Well yes, they make money that way. Why are you surprised? IBM sold PCs to the Nazis. iPhones were assembled with actual modern day slave labour. Those cloths you're wearing, you don't even want to know how the poor child who stitched them together's day went today.
Corporations serve their self interest and will bow to anyone for a dollar. News at 11.
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Yeah not PCs. But other equipment, including that used to speed up the effective cataloguing of Jews.
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Corporations serve their customers' interests. You wanted those clothes/iphones/chips cheap and plentiful and didn't care about the details, so somebody made it happen.
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No, self interest. Don't for a moment think a corporation wouldn't keep prices high while outsourcing to a lower cost supplier if they could get away with it.
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That's why competition is important.
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No. Competition doesn't help this at all. In fact it further exacerbates the problem by putting additional pressure to drop costs. Now you're not only dealing with a self interested corporation, but also a self interested customer who very much votes with their wallet, and their wallet is often looking for the cheapest option.
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I'm not sure if you're purposely missing the point or not.
Companies are amoral. They do whatever is required to maximize their profits. A critical part of making any profits at all is actually selling stuff. If the company's customers care about how the stuff is made, the company will care about how it's made. If the company has competition, its prices will remain reasonable.
Many customers care in a theoretical sense if their stuff is made with slave labour, and don't give a flying fig in a practical will-I
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No you basically made the same point I did. Companies are amoral and as such will try to maximise profit by reducing cost. The presence of competition puts further pressure to on the cost reduction piece since there's not cost competition in the interaction with customers. And then there's the customer...
Many customers care in a theoretical sense if their stuff is made with slave labour
No they really don't. The smallest of frigging rounding errors of customers care. Customers are overwhelmingly cost sensitive. Beyond them there are customers who are quality sensitive. Very very few happy
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They do whatever is required to maximize next quarter's share price.
FTFY.
If Xianjing is a workers paradise (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:If Xianjing is a workers paradise (Score:5, Informative)
That's been tried, reporters are followed by gangs of unidentified state goons, they are verbally and physically harassed. Uyghurs in China are too scared to talk to Uyghurs outside of China for fear of being branded a subversive and their whole family being locked up. Forced sterilisation is happening to Uyghurs, that is literally genocide.
So get lost, you're not welcome with propaganda crap here. You're literally supporting genocide, I could Godwin this and not be exaggerating.
Genocide on Uyghurs in China: https://youtu.be/fRQaxo9lRRQ [youtu.be]
Reporter harassment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Systematic rape of female Uyghurs https://youtu.be/e6bPGl10Cts [youtu.be]
Dissappeared: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
43 countries criticize China over Uyghur Muslims' rights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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gahh sorry, I apologise.
Details on how the propaganda machine works (Score:3)
Massive and coordinated.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/un... [lawfareblog.com]
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This is another fun question. Are Uighurs Chinese? They call themselves Turkestani.
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(sarcasm) Well I guess that makes the genocide ok then ~sarcasm
Re:If Xianjing is a workers paradise (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, the Uighurs are unlawful combatants... [uighur.nl] living on the Chinese border region. Americans don't know what it is like having that shit on their doorstep.
We? Who the fuck is we? YOU are obviously a Chinese SHILL. How much they paying you?
Re:If Xianjing is a workers paradise (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, the Uighurs are unlawful combatants... [uighur.nl] living on the Chinese border region. Americans don't know what it is like having that shit on their doorstep.
They're not putting the Uighurs in labor camps, but It's okay that they're putting the Uighurs in labor camps because they're unlawful combatants. The CCP talks out both sides of their mouth. Pick a line and stick with it.
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Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
-- George Orwell, 1984
How about sticking with this line?
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When did the US send political commissars to sleep with the women of the people in Guantanamo and eat their food?
https://www.businessinsider.co... [businessinsider.com]
Re: If Xianjing is a workers paradise (Score:4, Insightful)
Ah yes, the disgusting and false refuge of Chinese (and Russian) apologists and propagandists to the worst abuses of authoritarians: âoethe US does it too.â
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How do you get Russians mixed into this one? They were the ones who were so ashamed of a certain Georgian Communist leader and his crew setting up Gulags that they quietly dismantled the system in the wake of his death while Communism was still the ruling system in the USSR.
De-Stalinization project was in fact one of the main reasons for Sino-Soviet split.
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We don't let people see how we treat unlawful combatants in Guantanamo
Actually, we do. Several NGOs have observer status at Gitmo, and representatives from several governments have toured the detention center. Journalists don't have unrestricted access, but there are no restrictions on ex-guards talking to the press about what goes on there.
Could America be more open? Sure. But that does not excuse the behavior of the CCP in Xinjiang.
Tu quoque [wikipedia.org]
Yes, the Uighurs are unlawful combatants... [uighur.nl]
Yes, there are unlawful combatants. Dozens. Maybe even hundreds.
Does that justify locking up 800,000 people?
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Righhhht, those unlawful combatants are totes why political commissars are living in the same bedrooms as the women whose husbands are sent to concentration camps. And there is no way at all that any sort of coerced or forced sexual encounters are occurring between the political commissars and the women. Not at all.
https://www.businessinsider.co... [businessinsider.com]
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I'm sorry, do you think China is LYING that they sent partty members to sleep in the houses of Uighurs?
https://apnews.com/article/ap-... [apnews.com]
Last December, Xinjiang authorities organized a “Becoming Family Week” which placed more than 1 million cadres in minority households. Government reports on the program gushed about the warm “family reunions,” as public servants and Uighurs shared meals and even beds.
Another notice showed photos of visitors helping Uighur children with their homework and cooking meals for their “families.” The caption beneath a photo of three women lying in bed, clad in pajamas, said the cadre was “sleeping with her relatives in their cozy room.”
A different photo showed two women “studying the 19th Party Congress and walking together into the new era” — a nod to when Xi’s name was enshrined in the party constitution alongside the likes of Deng Xiaoping and Mao Zedong.
Becoming Family Week turned out to be a test run for a standardized homestay program. The Xinjiang United Front Work Department said in February that government workers should live with their assigned families every two months, for five days at a time.
The United Front, a Communist Party agency, indicates in the notice that the program is mandatory for cadres. Likewise, Idris and other interviewees said their families understood that they would be deemed extremists if they refused to take part.
Cadres, who are generally civilians working in the public sector, are directed to attend important family events such as the naming of newborns, circumcisions, weddings and funerals of close relatives. They must have a firm grasp of each family member’s ideological state, social activities, religion, income, their challenges and needs, as well as basic details on immediate relatives, the notice said.
Families were to be paid a daily rate of 20 to 50 yuan ($2.80 to $7.80) to cover the cost of meals shared with their newfound relatives. Some families might be paired with two or three cadres at a time, according to the notice, and the regularly mandated house calls could be supplanted with trips to the local party office.
A February piece on the Communist Party’s official news site said: “The vast majority of party cadres are not only living inside villagers’ homes, but also living inside the hearts of the masses.”
Go bugger yourself sideways with a rusty, oversized camping spork you piece of shit.
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Why? We don't let people see how we treat unlawful combatants in Guantanamo or any other secret rendition site, do we?
No, we don't. We absolutely should, because we shouldn't be engaging in this sort of behavior. From a purely utilitarian standpoint, it serves no particular purpose other than to enrage our enemies, and from a humanitarian standpoint it is positively mortifying.
However, "well, that other country tortured some people in a prison" isn't really a proper defense to putting an entire ethnic group into forced labor an re-education camps, now is it? I don't think that the proposition that "if someone else doe
Just because USA is a shit country (Score:2)
Get Woke Go Broke? (Score:3, Insightful)
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or they're going to keep needlessly getting stuck on both sides of issues they shouldn't need to care about.
That's literally why PR departments exist. Getting stuck on both sides of issues is a cost of doing business.
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or they're going to keep needlessly getting stuck on both sides of issues they shouldn't need to care about.
We are a product of the times in which we live, and there's no real way around that. Corporations may have fiduciary duties to make the most money for their owners, but people still run those corporations and should factor humanitarian issues into their drive for profits. Or be prepared to suffer the fallout, which is, in a way, also managing the fiduciary obligations.
Re: Get Woke Go Broke? (Score:2)
So (Score:4, Funny)
Did this apology involve the ritual cutting of disks off of a log with a chainsaw?
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Next time leave Porthos on the ship, Archer.
Screw China (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Screw China (Score:2)
our CHERISHED Chinese partners
Re:Screw China (Score:4, Insightful)
It should be ILLEGAL to do business with COMMUNIST countries.
That is not a wise policy. The communist regimes that have been economically isolated have endured the longest: NK and Cuba.
Every country has competing factions of hardliners and reformers while viewing its enemies as monolithic. But communist countries have hardliners and reformers too. Economic isolation strengthens the hardliners while weakening the reformers.
The best way to promote economic freedom is with economic freedom.
Re:Screw China (Score:5, Informative)
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Indeed, just get your fellow countrymen to vote with their wallet. But I guess they will want their $100 TVs more than solving problems on the other side of the world.
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Worth remembering that this is the way Soviet Union was brought down. Severe limitations on trade.
I still wouldn't argue for total ban, because that also cuts off a lot of contact you want for the day after Chinese people decide that CCP no longer enjoys Heavenly Mandate and act accordingly.
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First of all, USSR also had friends. Second, China's "domestic market" is currently in process of crashing, as much of it is in the real estate bubble. And that is if you even believe the official numbers in the first place. And last, there was no real domestic market access for foreigners, ever. It's always been a closed state with some token fake openness for appearances, mainly for purposes of IP theft and attracting business that would have export value for China.
Essentially your worst scenario is very
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The last thing we want is another cold war.
If push came to shove China would take control of Taiwan, and there's not much anyone can do to stop them.
The last cold war came close to nuclear exchanges more than once. Nothing is worth going back to that.
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80% in India aka Lower caste are also SLAVE labor as per https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... [wikipedia.org] and
https://twitter.com/0x101/stat... [twitter.com]
Corporate whores (Score:2)
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This is the problem with sanctions, you need corporations to follow through. Spineless pussies like the NBA know where the next dollar is coming from, unfortunately. As does Hollywood for example
I don't think sanctions work like you think they do.
Nice job slipping pro-CCP propaganda into the summ (Score:5, Insightful)
These abuses are not âoeallegedâ; they are happening, and they are not based on dubious âoeresearchesâ [sic]:
https://www.propublica.org/art... [propublica.org]
There is a genocide happening in Xinjiang; one that is erasing an entire culture, language, religion, and history of a people.
https://www.nytimes.com/intera... [nytimes.com]
https://www.nytimes.com/intera... [nytimes.com]
https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
Plus Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch (Score:2)
Citation, https://www.bbc.com/news/world... [bbc.com].
Re:Nice job slipping pro-CCP propaganda into the s (Score:4, Informative)
Here's some of the Wikipedia article about the Grayzone, which the OP cited while contending that the research on oppression of Uyghur's was dubious:
"The website's news content is generally considered to be fringe and it is known for its sympathetic coverage of authoritarian regimes and its denial of the Uyghur genocide.
[...]
"The Grayzone has been criticized 'for its coverage of authoritarian regimes'. Bruce Bawer, writing in Commentary, described The Grayzone as 'a one-stop propaganda shop, devoted largely to pushing a pro-Assad line on Syria, a pro-regime line on Venezuela, a pro-Putin line on Russia, and a pro-Hamas line on Israel and Palestine'. Nerma Jelacic, writing in the Index on Censorship, described The Grayzone as 'a Kremlin-connected online outlet that pushes pro-Russian conspiracy theories and genocide denial.'... Socialist academic Gilbert Achcar asserts that The Grayzone is an example of 'pro-Putin, pro-Assad 'left-wing' propaganda combined with gutter journalism.'"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Boycott Any Intel Product (Score:2)
It's the only way they will listen. Fuck them all the way to hell. And fuck China and their dictator Winnie the Pooh.
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And AMD chips are manufactured in Taiwan. Fuck China's government and the Chinese Communist Party.
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Fun part: Intel doesn't make top tier chips there either. In fact, the fastest x86 chips made in PRC are several generations old AMD designs.
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Yeah this story is too old to comment, but surprisingly no one has mentioned: the AMD *CEO* is Taiwanese (Lisa Su), so you know damn well AMD will not go down this path, at least for now. Add to that none of the fabs they use (TAIWAN SMC, Samsung, & probably AMD's old foundary GF) make anything in "P"RC.
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AMD Ryzen is a great choice (Score:2)
Glad my current home build is not Intel. F them for this.
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"national interests are above all else" (Score:2)
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That's ultimately a good thing. You don't want state interests to be the primary driver of commerce. That is how you get to globalisation of late 1800s, where it's all about intraimperial trade rather than international trade.
So don't trust accusers b/c their accusing? (Score:2)
The argument here seems to be akin to someone protesting: "But you can't trust the people who say I was a jerk to John yesterday since all those people think I'm a jerk." Yes, it could be they are biased against the accused or it could be that the accused really is a jerk and it's the people who haven't been convinced who are biased.
And I don't see anything shocking about the fact that entities which are concerned about China's human rights record might be working with governments who are also concerned
Yet another post submitted by a known CCP wumao (Score:5, Interesting)
account with a state gov't backed summary. Thanks again for spewing propaganda /. FFS that's at least twice in less than 24 hours from the same fucking shill account.
Cowardly (Score:3)
What a cowardly move on Intel's part. Absolutely shameful.
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And yet I bet Intel will get billions from US government as subsidies to build more fabs.
Wonder how fine a line you have to walk, to get billions from the US, and still do alot of business with China.
if china put jews into death work camps whould us? (Score:2)
if china put jews into death work camps would we still make stuff in china?
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Why not, it was done the previous time with Germany.
Though to be fair, we only discovered the camps when Soviets liberated them and went "ok, so we have Communist forced labour camps, so we know how to fuck people up, but this is a bit too far".
Intel re-invents fundamental digital circuit... (Score:2)
... the flip-flop.
Intel is Soooo Sorry (Score:2)
To China: (Score:2)
Sorry for breaking your glass heart.
(That's "thin skin" in the Chinese wording.)
Slashdot has come to this (Score:2)
Will there be backlash to the apology? (Score:2)
And this is why china will ... (Score:2)
... rule the world in 50 years from now. Forget democracy when big tech accepts human right violations over money.