Porch Pirates Are Now Raising the Price You Pay at Checkout (slashdot.org) 146
Lost deliveries, shipping delays and theft on the front porch have become such growing problems that companies are making consumers pay for package protection. From a report: Tens of thousands of online retailers now offer the service for a few dollars per order. The fees go to young companies -- Route and Corso, to name two -- that promise to make customers whole without charging the merchant if a delivery doesn't arrive. Consumers are finding that retailers either ask them to pay for package protection or draw a harder line when it comes to replacing a missing item. Some retailers are making the fees mandatory, spreading the burden of package theft among all customers.
To know whether you are paying the fee, review your order before you press purchase. Sometimes it is named after the company offering protection, and sometimes it is called shipping insurance or package protection. Skincare brand Topicals began using Corso two years ago after seeing 30% of its packages were regularly marked delivered but not received, according to customer insights manager Deja Jefferson. By requiring protection, which Topicals discloses on its shipping page, the company doesn't have to worry about convincing customers to opt in. "We actually don't get any complaints on it whatsoever," she said. Further reading: Porch Pirates Steal So Many Packages That Now You Can Get Insurance.
To know whether you are paying the fee, review your order before you press purchase. Sometimes it is named after the company offering protection, and sometimes it is called shipping insurance or package protection. Skincare brand Topicals began using Corso two years ago after seeing 30% of its packages were regularly marked delivered but not received, according to customer insights manager Deja Jefferson. By requiring protection, which Topicals discloses on its shipping page, the company doesn't have to worry about convincing customers to opt in. "We actually don't get any complaints on it whatsoever," she said. Further reading: Porch Pirates Steal So Many Packages That Now You Can Get Insurance.
Porch pirate yourself! (Score:5, Interesting)
Porch pirate yourself and get 2 or more for the price of one, problem solved!
Re: Porch pirate yourself! (Score:2)
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Sounds like that will create a bit of the same problem as blood vengeance does: At some point you are investing so much time doing it to others and having it done to yourself to often that all benefits are gone.
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LOL! Porch pirate your own self on your own porch, no blood vengeance suggested or "doing it to others and having it done to yourself to often that all benefits are gone" at all.
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LOL! Porch pirate your own self on your own porch,
And that gives you "2 or more for the price of one" how? Magic? Or plain fraud by claiming it got stolen when it did not?
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Olden Times (Score:5, Informative)
In the Olden Times, a delivery person would ring your bell and if you didn't answer, they'd take the package back with them. They might try one or two more times, after which you'd have to go pick up the package at a depot and show proof of identity.
If online vendors offered this form of delivery, I'd choose it.
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In sensible parts of the world they just drop your item off at whichever neighbour happens to be home. Only registered mail can't have that done.
Re: Olden Times (Score:2)
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It is. I can get it from my neighbor whenever I get home and he can pick up his stuff at my place if he's not home during delivery.
So what exactly seems to be not sensible?
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It's very sensible. It serves multiple purposes:
a) increases efficiency of a delivery system
b) increases your ability to get something quickly if you miss the delivery window
c) increases security of what you order.
And those other people aren't doing it for free, since in a sensible society you will also receive items for them, unless you're an anti-social arsehole who can't get along with your neighbours that is.
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Because criminals never have neighbors...
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Well yes obviously. The vast majority of crimes are crimes of opportunity. This is why package theft is a thing in America and no a thing in countries where neighbours take deliveries for each other. It's amazing how much a criminal will not be a criminal when their next door neighbour is told precisely who has the package for them.
I said it quite clearly with carefully chosen words increases security, not "perfects" security, not "guarantees" delivery, just "increases".
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There's even areas in the USA where we'll do so, quite a lot overall. I've delivered and received misplaced packages for my neighbors multiple times.
That said, finding a neighbor that is home can be a tall order in many locations, and definitely violate the 60 seconds or so they have to deliver the package.
You can still get a signature, verify that it is delivered to an actual adult, but that costs more money, so shippers don't do it whenever they can get away with it.
My area is relatively trusted, so they
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I have no idea what parts of the world you find sensible, but most of Europe have some kind of a widespread store, kiosk etc partnered with main delivery services, and if you order it home and they can't get to you, they'll drop it at the nearest partner store. You can get it with ID and tracking number.
There are also massive shelves of lockers they can be dropped at that you can open with a code. Usually located in grocery stores and such.
I have no idea who would drop it at the neighbor. It's not your neig
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I have no idea what parts of the world you find sensible, but most of Europe have some kind of a widespread store, kiosk etc partnered with main delivery services, and if you order it home and they can't get to you, they'll drop it at the nearest partner store. You can get it with ID and tracking number.
I've only lived in 3 countries in Europe. In all of them they dropped the parcel off at the neighbours. Kiosks and partnerships with stores are for speciality items and weird couriers like UPS.
I have no idea who would drop it at the neighbor. It's not your neighbor's business what you order, nor is it his job keeping your package for you. Respect his time and privacy. Do better.
They don't need to make it their business, it's a parcel, they don't open it. As for "not their job" the wonderful thing about living in a collective society is working together. But you sound precisely like the kind of arsehole who would let a neighbour receive a parcel but would reject one if they ordered it and was
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Kiosks and partnerships with stores are for speciality items and weird couriers like UPS.
This has been evolving very fast in the post-pandemic. At my place most couriers now have a delivery network. I'd argue it's faster, better business for them to deliver to known kiosks rather than going through the streets and discover you aren't home. Currently for me the rule for online shopping is: no kiosk, no business.
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Most couriers will give you the choice to deliver to a depot. That is a thing that exists, but it's not more convenient for most parcels, especially not for the post office which has a mixture of parcel delivery and mail that fits through the slot.
Currently for me the rule for online shopping is: no kiosk, no business.
So strange that you went from a world of having to go to a store to shop, to buying online, only to ... end up having to go to a store (which is where most kiosks are located) to get the parcel. That seems like an insane step backwards.
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I agree there is some irony in this turn of events. Though the major advantage is I now can buy from national franchises which aren't present in my area, and get it delivered at a several corner shops of choice at walkable distance, or to the shopping centre I'd go to anyway every week.
Another detail is I also agree with you that the level of support is very heterogeneous in EU place. While delivery at local shop has been used for very long in France (Mondial Relay was founded in 1992), it is only a recent
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How long ago was this? What nations? What regions in those nations?
>They don't need to make it their business, it's a parcel, they don't open it.
This is such a "I'm used to crime and no privacy" take. My point was that you don't force them to handle your packages. They're not your servant.
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I receive a bunch of parcels for my neighbors, and sometimes they do the same for me. It's a give and take relationship which benefits me and them, why would anyone have a problem with it?
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Because that's an adaptation to extreme criminality of the environment?
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I have no idea who would drop it at the neighbor.
Loads of people. Many will do it ad-hoc, some even have it as a selectable option of what to do if you are not in.
It's not your neighbor's business what you order,
Indeed and they have never asked what's in the box. And I have never asked what's in theirs.
nor is it his job keeping your package for you.
Many people do many things they are not employed to do, merely not being paid is not a good reason to not do things. My neighbors and I often do each other smal
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I'm (a) not American and (b) center left in as much as broad categorizations make sense. I'm to the left of other lefties on some issues and way to the right on others. Though possibly holding a package for my neighbor rather than standing my ground and shooting the delivery guy on sight qualifies as "far left" by American standards. I don't know, I've only lived in an oddball party of America.
Anyway, I know you were talking about not imagining privacy, but I and my neighbors clearly think it's absurd that
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And Certified Mail. The whole point of that's proof of delivery, so you have to sign for it, but it's treated the same as regular mail until it's getting delivered.
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That takes time to identify which neighbor is home, and the push to reduce costs means the drivers don't have time for this.
What would be better is feedback from the customer - eg tell the supplier what days you'll be in - they can just drop on the porch, ring the bell and leave.. i'll hear the bell and go down to collect it, no need to interact with the driver or for him to wait. With lots of people working from home these days, this option should work well. If you're not going to be home then you could no
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No, Drivers don't have time for it in America. In the rest of the world where delivers appear to be more optimised the driver normally has multiple parcels for people in the street anyway. About half the time I accept a parcel for the neighbour it's at the same time I get a parcel dropped off too. If your drivers don't have the time, GIVE THEM THE TIME. Slavery has been abolished. I thought America was the land of customer service, why do you expect the worst possible service from a delivery driver?
eg tell the supplier what days you'll be in -
Days? Wh
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In sensible parts of the world you have your Amazon package shipped to where you work (with business hours noted in your Amazon account, so they don't deliver while it's closed). And your employer takes care of getting it to you. I've never lost a package, and don't expect I will any time soon.
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I work from home, that doesn't mean I'm always there. My cat makes for a poor receptionist. But you're right, sensible would be having multiple solutions to the porch pirate problem. If that having a work location that suits you and specifically you, then great. Just remember you're not the only person in your country and others may have different situations.
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Unfortunately that only took one misplaced package becoming
the responsibility of the employer for them to decide not to be in the business of handling personal packages and ban the whole thing.
Re:Olden Times (Score:4, Insightful)
That's because you're an antisocial arsehole who doesn't understand the concept of living in a society where people help and look out for each other. We're not all like that. Sometimes a parcel I order goes to a neighbour, sometimes a parcel their order comes to me. The day I decide my neighbour is not worth answering the door for is the day society is fundamentally broken and I hope someone puts me down because god knows I wouldn't want to live anywhere near me in that situation.
Be a nicer person. You never know when you may need someone to pay you in kind.
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In the Olden Times, a delivery person would ring your bell and if you didn't answer, they'd take the package back with them. They might try one or two more times, after which you'd have to go pick up the package at a depot and show proof of identity.
If online vendors offered this form of delivery, I'd choose it.
We should have a choice at check-out. Signature required, which means what you describe. Or... blind-drop, which allows the courier to drop off the package without recipient present. In that case, the courier should provide photographic evidence of the package at its destination. At which point if you get home and there's no package, sorry, you're the one who chose that. Rogue delivery people will be caught pretty quick when multiple recipients report missing packages (which are not reimbursed).
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You can set you delivery preferences on ups.com. You might have to wait for them to snail mail you a letter with a code to prove you live there.
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Over here (some European country), the norm is still that packages get sent to the Post Office, an agent or an automatic locker.
Then you'd get a notification via email, SMS or as a paper letter about it, and you'd pick it up yourself showing your ID and/or a code.
This even used to be cheaper than home delivery. A little less convenient perhaps, but with very low risk of your package getting stolen.
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With postal delivery I can chose: Sent to post office directly or delivery attempts. With others (which I try to avoid), usually only direct delivery, except for DHL that I can get delivered to a pharmacy near here of all things. Works well though. Since the pandemic, they will often deliver behind the first door here (multi-tenant building) if anybody opens and not require you to sign for it or even be there. But even with that, I had one thing stolen in the last 10 years overall. My guess is this is most
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there's a reason they don't do that. i would say most (90%) of deliveries would be delayed, causing a huge problem.
there's another solution amazon already has, and it's garage delivery. as long as you trust their drivers and are not in a hurry, this solves the porch pirate problem
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Don't you have any local delivery lockers you could get the package sent to?
A home locker would work too, but delivery people would need to be trained to use them and they would have to be as fast as dumping on the porch.
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Yeah, this seems like an easy problem to fix.... just go back to requiring signature delivery for packages like we used to do before COVID. As long as you leave them sitting on the front steps, they're going to make a great theft target.
Of course, knowing Amazon, they'll probably start requiring their customers to buy a special package locker outside to prevent package theft. Or, maybe they'll give you one for "free" if you're a Prime member, with the caveat that you're going to be responsible for future pa
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That doesn't work for people who have to physically go out to work and leave their homes unattended during the day. In many cases it's also not practical to have items delivered to their workplace.
I always had items delivered to my workplace, but i travelled there by car and was able to bring the items home. The workplace had a reception desk which was always manned during the day too. If i had to commute by public transport it might not be practical to have items delivered, especially heavy/bulky ones.
Thes
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In the Olden Times, a delivery person would ring your bell and if you didn't answer, they'd take the package back with them. They might try one or two more times, after which you'd have to go pick up the package at a depot and show proof of identity.
If online vendors offered this form of delivery, I'd choose it.
Perhaps the olden vendor (USPS) still does? You might have to coordinate that with your local post office/carrier, and it would obviously depend on if the vendor also used them, but I wonder if it could be set up based on your address.
I found myself forced to go get a few packages at the local post office a few years ago when a family member was in the hospital. Not sure what the trigger for that was other than no one being around to receive it after a couple of delivery attempts.
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In olden times, women were housewives, and there was someone at home to receive the package.
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The major couriers do that. The guy in the rusty minivan that Amazon hires, not so much.
We've had deliveries by Amazon minivan, UPS, FedEx and USPS this month (oddly I think that was for four deliveries). Not one of the four knocked, though UPS was because I walked out to pick up my new laptop and didn't give them the chance, the other three just tossed the packages on the porch right where the icicles drip.
Re: Olden Times (Score:2)
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Amazon has it sub contracted several levels deep. I see Hertz rental trucks with magnetic stickers on the side. Everyone knows that’s not sustainable.
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I guess Amazon wants delivery to be as cheap as possible, so the couriers try to deliver to as many places as possible, which means not caring much about each particular delivery.
This is why I avoid Amazon. I buy from there only if I can't find it in a nearby store or from a different online vendor who uses a better delivery system.
Re: Olden Times (Score:2)
Which other online vendors have better logistics than Amazon?
Asking for someone who doesn't have any nearby stores.
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I'm in Canada, and the following retailers have fantastic logistics: Best Buy, Staples and Canada Computers. In fact, I ordered something from Staples once and it arrived the very same day. I've also bought from Canakit.com and while delivery did take about 10 days, that was fine with me... it wasn't something I needed urgently.
Some of those retailers are also cheaper than Amazon, depending on the item.
I'm also in a fairly compact city, so I can drive to pretty much any retailer of my choice within 10
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Amazon guy has 200-300 packages to deliver and there aren't enough hours in the day for him to stand there 2-3 minutes per house waiting to see if someone answers the door.
I'm wondering if it's viable to include GPS trackers in an attempt to actually catch the thieves. Include a prepaid return label and shipping box/bag and maybe back-charge the customer if it's not returned shipped back X days. You only need a reasonable expectation of getting caught to reduce thefts so just knowing that a device *might* b
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Sure, I get it. But I'd rather pay a bit more for delivery and have Amazon hire more delivery drivers who can take the time to do it right, than to pay a bit more for "insurance" AKA a protection racket.
Either way, you're paying more.
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The major carriers do that only if the sender asks for it, for a "small" fee. The buyer usually can't ask the sender to ask for it.
Maybe stop delivery uncovered packages (Score:4, Insightful)
One thing companies could do to at least reduce porch piracy is to stop delivering expensive items completely uncovered so all the world can see the item's retail packaging and see what it is. I had this happen just recently with a several hundred dollar sound bar I bought for my mother for Christmas and this is far from the first time. Fortunately I havent lost anything yet but making packages less tempting by at least making the value of them a mystery by covering up the retail packaging would likely help.
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Original vendor packages expensive product in sturdy-enough box to prevent the need for re-packaging and additional waste. Society complains.
Not sure what the lose-lose situation is here for the environment. Perhaps we just start cutting hands off again when people steal? I’ll bet we’ll find a society with a hell of a lot less petty excuses for crime.
So basically (Score:2)
What used to be added to the product's price is now made into a separate line on the bill.
This is probably a good way to remind people that problem exists, so they vote for stricter laws and policing against thievery.
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Pretty sure the problem isn't lack of laws against thievery, but the general impossibility of enforcing it.
Without immense luck or a very expensive investigation the porch pirate won't be caught.
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Pretty sure the problem isn't lack of laws against thievery, but the general impossibility of enforcing it.
Utter bullshit. Put a tracker into a bait package and then track the thief. Police isn't doing that because "it affects the most vulnerable population" and progressive prosecutors are not charging these crimes.
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Only a few cities have prosecutors that could be reasonably described as progressive
And these are the cities that drive up the crime rate (SF, Seattle, LAS, NYC, Chicago). There's not a lot of porch pirating in Boise, ID.
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This is the far left "can't do basic cost benefit calculus" take. Where it's better to let people who set sleeping women on fire not have violence applied to them, because violence against those people would have some negative effects on top of massive positive ones.
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The fact that those kids will have a few packages on them when shop will obviously not be relevant data. It's all about racism. Death penalty for Daniel Penny!
Easy fix. Time-tested, cheap, and effective (Score:2)
Jail those convicted of petty theft, stop declining to prosecute petty theft, and don't hassle cops for investing and arresting suspected perpetrators of petty theft.
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Even easier. Just draw a chalk outline of a body lying on your porch holding a package when you are expecting another delivery.
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One isn't enough - draw a half-dozen of the outlines. Plus vary the package sizes a bit to add to the realism.
It's about money, not principles (Score:3)
Jail those convicted of petty theft, stop declining to prosecute petty theft, and don't hassle cops for investing and arresting suspected perpetrators of petty theft.
Every adjective of your fix is wrong. It's not time-tested...we've learned it doesn't deliver results. It's neither cheap nor effective, as explained below. I generally am fine with not hassling cops....but you're wrong. Communities don't decline to prosecute petty crime because of liberal reasons, but because of funding reasons.
How much are you willing to pay to get your wish. Want to lock up criminals?...great...now what?...you know that's expensive, right? Police are expensive, trials are expen
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Repeat offenders are expensive for society, bullets are cheap. Just sayin'
And why not the delivery company? (Score:2)
Shouldn't that be paid by the delivery companies who leave that stuff unattended at your porch? (Unless the recipient agreed, in which case the responsibility shifts)
garage delivery solves this for most on amazon (Score:2)
and if your garage is too old for this to work, you can buy a ~$35 device to make your garage smart to use this feature
Baseball Bat (Score:3)
I keep a big ass wooden baseball bat at my front door. Used it once to chase an asshole off a neighbor's porch. His buddy took off in the car while I chased the asshole to the next block. No honor among thieves. Dumb ass should have known better ... I fly my USMC flag daily on the front porch.
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His buddy took off in the car
His buddy could very well have been an armed lookout. A bat might not be enough.
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And actually using the bat on someone is probably a more serious crime than the theft. Assault with a deadly weapon generally is, and only Texas allows the use of deadly force to defend property (and that is very limited).
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The fix is that anyone injured committing a crime should not be able to sue for the injury or any damages. Some moron will bring up a grey area where someone shoplifting a $1 trinket had their legs broken and a cracked skull. Well, don't commit the crime!
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In most states, someone committing a crime cannot, in fact, sue (successfully) for injuries sustained while committing a crime. In California, for instance, they can sue, and they can win, but any damages collected are automatically confiscated for the victim restitution fund. Makes it pretty hard to find an attorney who will work on a contingency fee, and criminals rarely have the money to pay legal fees up front.
But that's not the issue. The issue is that you're not allow to commit a felony to prevent a m
Re: Baseball Bat (Score:2)
Perhaps Texas is the only place (to date) that has based its law on the Constitution's principle of an equality between life, liberty and property. Other states may follow soon.
Code locked delivery safe spaces (Score:2)
I wonder why that kind of approach isn't more popular if porch theft is such a huge problem. Too expensive? Too much hassle?
The locked safe space would just have to provide a smallish increase in security over none at all, assuming the majority of porch theft is casual and opportunist.
You could always do this (Score:5, Funny)
https://x.com/i/status/1869192... [x.com]
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Please don't feed the cesspool formerly known as Twitter.
Corporations raise prices... (Score:2)
Simple (Score:4, Insightful)
There is already a fix in place for this in the form of proof of delivery via Signature.
Simple enough to require it for all delivery purchases and, in the event you can't be bothered with it,
you can simply decline it. If you decline it, the Company you purchased said goods from cannot be
held liable for your missing merchandise.
Think of it as a certified chain of custody thing.
This is almost always mandated for all high-dollar online purchases and I have zero problems with it.
I don't want a multi-thousand dollar item sitting on my front porch for any length of time.
Sounds like an opportunity (Score:2)
This sounds like an opportunity for a secure package storage business where the item could be sent to a local facility (most post offices could not handle that volume of temporary storage) for pickup by the customer. Still much less work than driving all over to shop especially in urban areas.
or simply put (Score:2)
Laws exist (Score:2)
Legally, you have not received it until you receive it. Something left on your porch was not delivered to you. Even if the delivery driver takes a picture of it, and swears that it was left there... you did not receive it. It is between the seller, the shipper, and their insurance company to sort out who pays the price -but it is not your responsibility.
Demand a refund/replacement. Or institute a chargeback on your credit card. You are not responsible if it was not delivered to you.
The seller can charg
Re: Why analog is still better (Score:3)
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Where I live there is usually 1/10 the selection of anything in stores compared to Amazon.
To be fair and realistic here, this is now a non-argument. Invalid.
Everywhere in reality has a mere fraction of the selection that the entire internet has to offer.
Even an Amazon warehouse would have 1/10th the selection of Amazon online.
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And you think I should make the trip, for some reason? It's crazy talk. Having 1 to 3 services make the rounds through the city each day has so much more efficient than thousands of car trips.
Re: Why analog is still better (Score:3)
I'd prefer to get to the pickup point instead of getting my package stolen. But many sellers don't offer that option so the package need to go on an extra trip around town before I can get it. So the delivery will be delayed a day or two.
It seems to me that home delivery is too cheap compared to pickup point cost.
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CUCKOO ALERT (Score:2, Informative)
Checklist for crazy conservative poster
The cost of theft has always been built into pricing.
First sentence contradicts their whole argument. Check.
It's just worse now
Second sentence states fact that cannot be proven or has no proof at all. Check
Lock 'em up. Check. When are you going to advocate to lock up your own felon, insurrectionist president?
Fox news link about CA. Check.
Re:Nothing New (Score:4, Insightful)
I work for a small chain of grocery stores in California and I honestly think our biggest problems in regards to shop lifting dont come from California laws, they come from major chains literally doing nothing to stop shop lifting. It's company policy for several of the major grocery store chains near me to do 100% nothing when someone is shop lifting. No one will stop them on the way out, they just walk on out with all their new free stuff. With no one stopping them at major chain stores of course these people think they can get away with it anywhere including at the stores run by the company I work for.
And before I get a bunch of people mention this, the cops where we operate do indeed arrest and process shop lifters that the company I work for turn over to them. It's extremely rare we have someone come back after being turned over to the police by us but there seems to be an endless train of new shop lifters very likely emboldened by the zero repercussions they face at major chains near us.
Re: Nothing New (Score:2)
They have to count on being able to ID the perp with a license plate reading camera in the parking lots. People like rsilvergun who openly admit to shoplifting don't have cars though, he just rides off on his motorized bariatric wheelchair.
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So Texas is a crime free utopia?
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Naa, they are just more delusional.
Re:Nothing New (Score:5, Interesting)
Never mind Texas has two cities on this list of cities with the worst shoplifting problems and California only has one https://www.newsweek.com/map-s... [newsweek.com] .
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With people working from home, the risk of theft was quite low. They also didn't want to come into contact with the delivery driver for fear of spreading infection. What they found was that this approach (plus the lack of traffic) made delivery routes much faster and more efficient. So the theft problems now are caused by empty homes when people are forced into offices again.
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Amazon has dabbled with having things delivered inside your garage door or the trunk of your car. What's really needed is a universal parcel locker for homes. There were a few companies that tried to get that going a while back, but not sure why they
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come to Australia and you can do this
https://auspost.com.au/receivi... [auspost.com.au]
we even go a step further, and some deliveries have to be picked up from a post office, and they won't be left at your house.
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Not practical for large/bulky items, especially if you have to commute on public transit.
Same for the store lockers in many cases.
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No, it's not, and never was. The only thing that happened was that the threshold between misdemeanor and felony was raised. Shoplifting has always been a crime, it's just a matter of which kind.
The problem was never that it wasn't illegal, the problem was that district attorneys in San Francisco and Los Angeles basically refused to prosecute the misdemeanors for a variety of reasons, good (lack of resources) and bad (political ideology), and the courts let them get away with it.
Add in some big chains using