Grindr Loses Nearly Half Its Staff To Strict Return-To-Work Rule (nypost.com) 164
Nearly half of LGBTQ dating app Grindr's workforce has quit after the company enacted a strict two-day-per-week in-office requirement -- and furious staffers claim the mandate was in retaliation for their campaign to unionize. From a report: Last month, Grindr informed employees that they had two weeks to decide whether they would relocate to a "hub" office location and work on site two days per week or terminate their employment, according to the labor group Communications Workers of America. Through the end of August, about 80 employees -- roughly 45% of Grindr's 180-person workforce -- had left the company due to the mandate, union organizers said.
Grindr offered a severance package for employees who could not or would not comply with the relocation requirement -- a move that the group described as an attempt "to silence workers from speaking out about their working conditions." "These decisions have left Grindr dangerously understaffed and raises questions about the safety, security and stability of the app for users," said Erick Cortez, a member of Grindr United-CWA. "It is clear Grindr wants workers to be silenced and deterred from exercising our right to organize, regardless of the expense."
Grindr employees had announced their intent to unionize on July 20 through CWA, but the labor drive has yet to receive formal recognition. The company announced its return-to-office mandate on Aug. 4. The CWA has filed a formal complaint on behalf of Grindr employees with the National Labor Relations Board, alleging that the company's actions amounted to unlawful retaliation. "It is unimaginably disappointing that dozens of our colleagues have had to leave their jobs because Grindr management did not want to sit down with workers and respect our right to organize," Cortez added. A Grindr spokesperson said in a statement: "We have full confidence in our team and their ability to continue to drive the business forward and make the world and lives of our users freer, more tolerant, and more just. We are looking forward to returning to the office in a hybrid model in October and further improving productivity and collaboration for our entire team."
Grindr offered a severance package for employees who could not or would not comply with the relocation requirement -- a move that the group described as an attempt "to silence workers from speaking out about their working conditions." "These decisions have left Grindr dangerously understaffed and raises questions about the safety, security and stability of the app for users," said Erick Cortez, a member of Grindr United-CWA. "It is clear Grindr wants workers to be silenced and deterred from exercising our right to organize, regardless of the expense."
Grindr employees had announced their intent to unionize on July 20 through CWA, but the labor drive has yet to receive formal recognition. The company announced its return-to-office mandate on Aug. 4. The CWA has filed a formal complaint on behalf of Grindr employees with the National Labor Relations Board, alleging that the company's actions amounted to unlawful retaliation. "It is unimaginably disappointing that dozens of our colleagues have had to leave their jobs because Grindr management did not want to sit down with workers and respect our right to organize," Cortez added. A Grindr spokesperson said in a statement: "We have full confidence in our team and their ability to continue to drive the business forward and make the world and lives of our users freer, more tolerant, and more just. We are looking forward to returning to the office in a hybrid model in October and further improving productivity and collaboration for our entire team."
Say what? (Score:4, Insightful)
These decisions have left Grindr dangerously understaffed and raises questions about the safety, security and stability of the app for users
What the hell are you people doing to the software on a daily basis that a few people leaving would "compromise" the software this much? Are you randomly changing lines of code to make yourself useful? Are you making changes to production?
Every time I hear crap like this it only reinforces my belief that programmers* a) are not the great magicians they claim to be, b) are not worth the exorbitant salaries they claim they need, and c) make changes solely for the sake of justifying their existence.
* The same for so called web "designers". If you're fiddling with your site every other week you need to be kicked out the door.
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To be fair, it is not "a few people leaving", it's "half the workforce leaving".
For large web applications, just keeping the application up and running while patching the security flaws in the crazy amount of dependencies modern web frameworks have could very well be the full time work of a small team.
Now maybe we need to rethink how we do webstuff to decrease maintenance overhead, but at the moment, keeping things running is not free.
Re:Say what? (Score:4, Insightful)
Twitter seems to be doing fine after laying off much more of it's workforce.
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If that really happened, Twitter laying off more than 50% of its staff, you'd think that would be newsworthy enough to generate a story on Slashdot. Yet, there has never been a story on Slashdot about Twitter laying people off after Musk took over. I'm thinking you read about that on a different news source.
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My only news source is Slashdot. What is this Twitter? I heard on Slashdot that there was a Threads that sucked or something. It that a twitter? Maybe I could read about it under Technology. I'll do a search. I'll be back when the search works.
/. Shadow ban (Score:2)
Re: Say what? (Score:2, Flamebait)
Do you actually use it? It degraded enough to break my sister-in-law's addiction to it.
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Spoken like a man who doesnt use twitter.
Twitter was a mess for months after the takeover. Functions would just randomly stop working for a day, entire continents would lose access for a period of time (Presumably the local AWS region catching on fire) and in some cases that was because the only person who knew how that thing worked had been retrenched.
It still kind of is a mess. I'm pretty regularly logging in to see the wall not u
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Re:Say what? (Score:5, Informative)
These decisions have left Grindr dangerously understaffed and raises questions about the safety, security and stability of the app for users
What the hell are you people doing to the software on a daily basis that a few people leaving would "compromise" the software this much? Are you randomly changing lines of code to make yourself useful? Are you making changes to production?
Every time I hear crap like this it only reinforces my belief that programmers* a) are not the great magicians they claim to be, b) are not worth the exorbitant salaries they claim they need, and c) make changes solely for the sake of justifying their existence.
* The same for so called web "designers". If you're fiddling with your site every other week you need to be kicked out the door.
Several points.
1) It doesn't matter how mature your software is, half the workforce leaving means that you're going to lose critical expertise in sections of the codebase. This means the remaining devs are more likely to create bugs and less likely to be able to fix them. Remember, it has a lot of libraries and infrastructure and they have theor own vulnerabilities that are constantly being discovered. Keeping the platform secure means constantly responding to these new vulnerabilities.
2) Software doesn't exist in a vacuum, a big web based app like grindr is going to be under constant attack, ddos, hacked credentials, etc. You need good IT staff to respond to those attacks.
3) For any app with a lot of users, particularly a dating app, there's going to be support requirements. Some of that will just be user questions, some of that it going to be dealing with dangerous or predatory users. You need a certain ratio of support staff to keep the bad apples in check.
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Programmer salary is not based on need. What programmers "claim they need" has nothing at all to do with it. It's based on supply and demand in the labor market.
Employers are the ones who think they need programmers. And lots of them. More than are available in the market. So employers must bid against each other to convince the programmers to work for them, and that drives salaries up.
There were periods in our lifetime when the market shifted and demand for programmers fell precipitously (such as the
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It's best to avoid companies that react to market conditions with lay-offs and low salaries.
You will end up working on some ancient, poorly documented code that you grow to hate. All the vital institutional knowledge is lost, and nobody gives a shit about the next guy because they figure it's probably not going to be them. Bodge on top of bodge, no coherent architecture or plan.
It's best to avoid software from such companies too. Avoid ones that are too heavily into Agile as well.
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If they're like most online services, the majority of employees are probably reviewing profiles/content for TOS violations.
Spoken like a non-developer (Score:3)
These decisions have left Grindr dangerously understaffed and raises questions about the safety, security and stability of the app for users
What the hell are you people doing to the software on a daily basis that a few people leaving would "compromise" the software this much? Are you randomly changing lines of code to make yourself useful? Are you making changes to production?
You must not work in the industry or you must have only worked for tiny startups. When you are their size, you're constantly having to patch working code and add continuous metrics for performance and monetization. These apps are data collection platforms, so a lot of the logic in there is probably deducing behavior of their users for marketing purposes. Even if they're not changing visible features or adding new ways of collecting or analyzing data, they're in a constant battle with bots and attackers.
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What the hell are you people doing to the software on a daily basis that a few people leaving would "compromise" the software this much?
You sound like an executive! Apparently, you think software maintains itself, or maybe you think that once software is released, you can walk away because it's "done." That's not how it works in the real world.
In the real world, any non-trivial construction must be maintained, or it quickly disintegrates. That's true whether it's a house, a road system, or software.
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These things are rarely "Half the workforce" Thanos style. Its "Well the marketing guys are still all here, but the entire deployment team quit" or whatever.
This might blow your mind, but websites aren't "Nest of PHP on a VM" anymore, and havent been for a long time. Theres usually a full devops deployment system, something like a Kubernetes system coordinating all them containers (and those are not "Log into the backend and click deploy" type systems) , or a giant mess of lambda nodes that can take months
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Or was the code so poorly written and rushed into production in the first place that it needs continuous hands-on maintenance to keep it's hard disks from filling and thus shutting down it's function?
I have seen more than a few PROPER production environments where code maintenance required one-half to one-tenth the amount of programming staff that was required to develop the programs in the first place.
Re: Say what? (Score:2)
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Are you randomly changing lines of code to make yourself useful?
Your question has been redirected to Management.
Are you making changes to production?
Your question has been redirected to Management.
Every time I hear crap like this it only reinforces my belief that [I have never written a software product].
There, fixed that for you.
If you had even a smidgen of a clue of what it's like to create and maintain a body of software via 2nd party, you would be kissing the feet of programmers worldwide. Even maintaining a pet projects, when it's under constant attack by users and losers alike, can be a nightmare.
That you think creating reliable software is easy is a testament to how hard developers have worked to promulgat
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These decisions have left Grindr dangerously understaffed and raises questions about the safety, security and stability of the app for users
What the hell are you people doing to the software on a daily basis that a few people leaving would "compromise" the software this much? Are you randomly changing lines of code to make yourself useful? Are you making changes to production?
Every time I hear crap like this it only reinforces my belief that programmers* a) are not the great magicians they claim to be, b) are not worth the exorbitant salaries they claim they need, and c) make changes solely for the sake of justifying their existence.
* The same for so called web "designers". If you're fiddling with your site every other week you need to be kicked out the door.
Critical bugs don't operate on a time table.
Beyond that, it's more than just programmers (although you can bet the most useful people left), but content, compliance and a dozen other functions. Especially when you're operating an application designed for gay people to use in the most puritan developed country on earth, you have people gunning for you from every angle.
Also it was 80 out of 180 people that left... That is going to affect your ability to do anything.
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Not everyone is a goddam SWE.
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Sorry, by this point in time Grindr has been around long enough that those issues should be taken care of. Yes, nothing is perfect, but if you're not randomly changing your code or your back end on a weekly basis, any exploits at this point should be mainly from the users. Basic security is to not allow access, then open up only as needed. If they're doing more than that, they deserve to be hacked.
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To what end? Their enemies are all on the left and the left doesn't care if you're gay. Perhaps you've forgotten that an openly gay man and his husband recently ran for president?
Even if they wanted to eat their own, being gay and a Republican isn't really the career killer it used to be.
Re: Say what? (Score:2)
> It is an app used extensively by gay people and so it's a constant Target by right wing extremists looking to access their database.
Either this doesn't happen very often or the Grindr team has been exceptionally good at securing their platform. Even the leaking of a Catholic priest using Grindr came via other sources - not a compromise of Grindr.
If anything Grindr's policies seem a greater risk, such as their sharing of data with advertisers. Of course the biggest risk comes from hooking up for sex wit
Judas Priest Song. (Score:2)
What did they expect (Score:2)
The mistake here was the employees thought that somehow because of t
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The fact that you can describe promiscuity and union busting as "sleazy" doesn't mean they actually go hand in hand. Purity culture and union busting can co-occur too. There's an industry union for sex workers in the UK.
Every mid-to-large tech company is worried about unionization around now. Grindr isn't unique.
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Is their slogan "sex union now"?
Who it is does not matter (Score:2)
ANY company that has half the people quit because they want them to show up in the office 16 hours a week should have that right. If you say it's because of a union, then the union demanding the workers should NOT show up 16 hours per week is making unreasonable demands.
Does it "fix things" if it's company X? No, it doesn't. But, it apparently makes good headlines.
A lot of companies are requesting people show up at least twice per week. Some are requesting more than that. Does that make them all evil?
Re:Who it is does not matter (Score:5, Funny)
ANY company that has half the people quit because they want them to show up in the office 16 hours a week should have that right.
I guess you could say they didn't want to go back to the daily grind(r).
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Is a company evil that demands something from their workers that has no reason rooted in the requirements of their work?
If I demand you're wearing uncomfortable shoes while working, and these shoes are not mandated by some kind of safety rule, would you consider that evil?
What if I demand you wear a silly hat that makes you look like a dork and I use it to make sure everyone in the office knows you're from a particular department?
At what point is a pointless mandate evil?
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Any company that has half the people quit is bad at capitalism.
The US is insane... (Score:2)
Nearly 50%? Good. Pre-covid people that wanted to stay at home rather than go to the office were either unemployed (congratulations) or self-employed (here's their oppor
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The US is very bad at capitalism.
WTF did 180 people do in the first place? (Score:2)
I've used Grindr. It's crap for dating; but handy for getting laid if sex is all that you're interested in. But it's not a particularly complex or impressive app. Right now, I work for a much smaller startup than 180 people and only a few dozen of us are engineers and... I really don't know how to say this without coming off as braggadocious... but what we've built with many fewer than 180 people in many fewer years than Grindr has been around is much more featureful, stable, and, in my experience, all-a
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I met my partner through gay.com. I think they've changed owners at least once since then. The idea that gays are just loaded with tons of disposable income is a myth. Most of these sites believe it though and think that by catering to gays they're going to make profit out the ass, but then the money doesn't come and the investors start getting blue balls.
I think I might've over-metaphored that just a bit.
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So you don't want to brag that what you've built is far less successful than Grindr? Noted.
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I'm only commenting about the quality and features of the app and how many people it should take to build the thing, We're not even marketing yet; so I don't know what sort of flex you're trying to make. But when we go live, it will already be a higher-quality app than Grindr's.
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Craigslist used to be an online hookup spot back in the day. The only thing that makes a better mousetrap when it comes to casual gay sex is having a critical mass of users so enough of them can match with each other.
Legalities and ethical concerns aside, you'd probably have a better business model skipping the whole app thing and instead just cloning twinks. Those are always in high demand.
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I'm only commenting about the quality and features of the app and how many people it should take to build the thing, We're not even marketing yet; so I don't know what sort of flex you're trying to make. But when we go live, it will already be a higher-quality app than Grindr's.
Well of course it will - you started later. You're in a position to benefit from years of language and library development that existing apps can't due to the need to keep operating and making money. A couple of years down the line, someone else will be in the same position as you are now but in respect to you. You really shouldn't be surprised by what you've accomplished.
Love the corpspeak. (Score:2)
"We are looking forward to returning to the office in a hybrid model in October and further improving productivity and collaboration for our entire team."
...or at least the ones that are still left.
I fully expect a few other companies to commit corporate suicide by turning the screws too hard before the C-suites learn their lesson, but in the end, remote work is here to stay, because:
Such a missed upportunity (Score:2)
Such a missed opportunity to note that a whole bunch of workers refused to return to the grind at Grindr.
Losing 50% means losing the rest soon after (Score:4, Insightful)
Ponder this: Even if you don't care that you RTO, you are now expected to pull double duty. You have to pick up the slack of one additional person because, well, you think you'll find a replacement any time soon with a 50% office mandate? Keep dreaming. And even if you do, you would need a few months to get the new person up to speed.
Until then you are expected to work double shifts. For how much extra pay you ask? Got more such zingers?
What do you think how long it takes 'til the rest of the remaining workers says "fuck this!" and throw in their towel, too?
Lettuce Gherkin Bacon Tomato (Score:2)
It's not doable (Score:2)
...from Aruba.
To STIFF Return-to-Work Rule (Score:2)
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With that many disgruntled employees how long will it take before the grindr database is leaked and we see how many republican politicians have accounts?
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With that many disgruntled employees how long will it take before the grindr database is leaked and we see how many republican politicians have accounts?
And how many of those accounts will actually be REAL and not just sporgeries (spammed forgeries) in an attempt to paint the person in a VERY NEGATIVE WAY?
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And how many of those accounts will actually be REAL and not just sporgeries (spammed forgeries) in an attempt to paint the person in a VERY NEGATIVE WAY?
They do a fine job all by themselves.
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They don't seem to need any help to be painted in a very negative way - they manage that all on their own through dumbass nonsense "policy" that doesn't intersect with easily observable reality, backing the worst impulses of their hard core "base" of narcissistic, misogynistic, anti-semitic, racist, selfish, extremist shitbags; elevating increasingly toxic people to national profile, and displaying rank hypocrisy at every single opportunity.
But yeah, go on with calling everything a "false flag" or claiming
Re: Repent now, sinners. (Score:2)
I think most people would welcome hypocrites being exposed, although being anti-gay isn't a requirement of being a Republican. Certainly any politician who is anti-gay, yet looking for gay hook-ups should be exposed. Same for those cheating on their families, regardless of which apparent team they're on.
It'd be more useful to expose those going after minors - regardless of which political jersey they wear.
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And that from a bunch who keeps telling me that some ancient dude wants a relationship with me.
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But he loves you!
Even more than Ceiling Cat!
Re:Repent now, sinners. (Score:4, Funny)
The least I'd expect is to be wined and dined, but all that cheapskate had for me was some dry cracker. And no "but it's a part of me" doesn't make it any better!
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And no "but it's a part of me" doesn't make it any better!
Makes it worse if anything.
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But he loves you!
And he needs money!
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Nothing wrong with relationships. [uchicago.edu]
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Re:Repent now, sinners. (Score:5, Funny)
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I think it's past time for Slashdot to just ditch AC posting entirely. Sign up with a delay before you can post, and then you're stuck with your account and its reputation. That would cut so much garbage from this site.
So would increasing the number of relationships permitted in your account, because there are a lot of knobs with IDs to block, too.
Re: Repent now, sinners. (Score:2)
Nah...that won't do anything. People troll all the time with their regular username. Take me for example.
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> So would increasing the number of relationships permitted in your account, because there are a lot of knobs with IDs to block, too.
I cannot agree enough. Over 20 years later, I have to prune my lists of inactives to allow for the new batch of sockpuppets and trolls from the, increasingly rare, free account, signups.
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I think it's past time for Slashdot to just ditch AC posting entirely. Sign up with a delay before you can post, and then you're stuck with your account and its reputation. That would cut so much garbage from this site.
One of nice things about posting AC, Slashdot throttles how often you're allowed to post. I've seen your profile, you could use some of that restraint.
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That would cut so much garbage from this site.
The garbage is half the reason people come here. It sure as shit isn't for timely news.
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Short term thinking. It's not as if the user base hasnt been shrinking anyways.
Slashdot without degens? Chance of clawing back a strong user base
Slashdot with degens? Probably not.
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I'd submit the only reason the site still exists is the AC stuff and nostalgia.
1) Doesn't support Unicode
2) Various features of slashcode are broken and have been for years - a decade sometimes
3) M2 is inoperative, so the M1 system is also uncontrolled and probably more harm than good. Not that M2 ever worked well.
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I'd be curious how important most Slashdot users consider anything on your list as I see people complain about those issues on Slashdot sometimes but I've very honestly never cared about any of them as they have never effected my user experience.
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Really? The lack of unicode has never made you see fucked up unreadableposts from someone on an iPhone or iPad that couldn't be bothered to turn off "smart quotes" ?
That seems inplausible.
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I don't want to associate my usename with subjects like politics, or Grindr for that matter.
Sorry to say this, but you're already associating with some pretty weird people if they're looking up your Slashdot post history.
Re: Repent now, sinners. (Score:2)
No, that's just slashdot. The number of people who have done that to me on this site is pretty impressive given there isn't anything particularly remarkable about me. Yeah, I'm a slashdot troll, along with a heap of thousands of others. Hell I get bored just trying to find a post I made a week ago, and yet I've had people study my posts going back years.
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I meant IRL. Like if someone came up to me and said "So, you've been discussing politics and buttholes on Slashdot?"
Well, yeah, I'm a gay dude. Not bringing up buttholes and politics at every opportunity is grounds for having your gay card revoked. Your fault for asking, so now I'm telling.
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Well, he's trying, but half the staff at Grindr just quit. /s
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They're just not satisfied unless they're dictating every little detail about how other people should be living their lives.
Then they turn around shouting about land of the free.
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what do you mean "now"?
It always has been
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Yet here you are.
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But 2-days in-office per week isnt exactly medieval torture for most people.
It is for people who relocated far away from the office during the pandemic, as well as for people who joined only on condition of remote work and are now having terms changed. I sure as hell wouldn't have to have to move back to SF or NYC or whatever overpriced city they set up shop.
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It is for people who relocated far away from the office during the pandemic
and this is the businesses problem? they moved away that is on them, most other places they would have already had to quit to do that.
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It is now.
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"and this is the businesses problem?"
If a business set the conditions of employment that workers did not have to live in the vicinity of specific offices and then attempted to materially change the conditions of employment to add that requirement then yes that is the business's problem.
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But 2-days in-office per week isnt exactly medieval torture for most people.
It is for people who relocated far away from the office during the pandemic,
Unless the leadership announced otherwise they should have assumed that remote work may not last past the pandemic.
as well as for people who joined only on condition of remote work and are now having terms changed. I sure as hell wouldn't have to have to move back to SF or NYC or whatever overpriced city they set up shop.
IF the company hired them for a remote position and then changed the terms of employment then those folks would have a case, but if they're getting a severance package it's the same as being laid off.
Through the end of August, about 80 employees -- roughly 45% of Grindr's 180-person workforce -- had left the company due to the mandate, union organizers said.
This fraction is surprising. It tells
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....with the belief that their job would stay remote-only?
It's perfectly reasonable. Even when they are in the office, they are working remotely. "How is this possible" you may ask? It's because all the file servers, database servers, git servers, etc. are almost always in different buildings than the ones that house the actual workers, and are almost always VM's which are managed remotely. The job is nearly identical [with network latency being the only significant difference] whether it's done from a corporate office or a home office. It's all remote work anywa
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'people who moved "far away" from their job'
You are assuming that they all moved after having already been employed.
"I can't feel sorry for foolish people who make foolish decisions"
Why is it foolish for them to take their conditions of employment seriously? Why is it reasonable for an employer to make unilaterally changes that adversely affect the conditions of employment and then blame the employees?
If an employer changed the conditions of employment to require that workers slam their dicks in a desk draw
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Wait let me get this straight
Grindr isn't the right app for that ...
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It depends - if the previous policy was that 100% remote working was OK, it could be that some people live so far away that in-person attendance for 2 days a week is not practical.
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Being stuck in traffic jams or very busy trains. Just to sit behind a PC in a different office with equipment that is worse then my place?
I'm a web-developer. My development tools are local and the servers are all remote.
Most meetings can be done without any problem through video-conference tools.
I even have a client I never have met ones IRL, no need for it.
There is one big difference though: At the client the desks
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They're way too lenient. Go to work every work day or be fired. That's how it's always been. Do this and find out how many employees actually deserve to get a paycheck.
Do this and find out why the CEO, CFO, and VPs make the big bucks... and find out how well a company runs when they're the only ones who are left.
You're acting as though these people are staying home the rest of the week and watching porn. They aren't. They're going to work every day. They just aren't doing it in a physical office provided by their employer.
People shouldn't be fired for doing their jobs. If their job requires physical presence, such as a bank teller, then yeah, if they aren't physically
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On the other hand, you could be just a foreign shill / bot for business interests.
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I see a parallel: the really good employees will continue to find remote jobs, because they're that good, leaving the dregs behind to suck up the "in office" jobs."
More like: the really good employees will work in the place that they choose - which might be at home, or might be in an office. Or on a beach or whatever.
People who are less highly valued may not get that flexibility.
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It's not quite what I've observed. Working in office is seen more and more as some kind of stigma among us here, because if you were really good, you could demand WFH and only the duds and washouts who can't negotiate a WFH contract and who can be gang-pressed into RTO mandates have to bend over and take it.
And frankly, that pretty much holds true when talking to people. Most people where I know they're in office are either juniors who have no negotiating leverage or have the information levels of juniors.
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And then there are guys like me. I'm an embedded dev also, but the vast majority of my work can be accomplished from home, which has worked for me for the past several years. If I need to touch a particular piece of hardware, I go in. On occasion, I spend several weeks in a row in the lab. The difference is, my employer doesn't really care. They just want to see results. If I can produce results at home, they're fine with that, but if I need to be onsite to get something done, then that's what is expec