Europe Plans Ban on Plastic Cutlery, Straws and More (cnn.com) 628
Europe is proposing a ban on single-use plastic items such as cutlery, straws and cotton buds in a bid to clean up the oceans. From a report: The European Commission wants to ban 10 items that make up 70% of all litter in EU waters and on beaches. The list also includes plastic plates and drink stirrers. The draft rules were unveiled Monday but need the approval of all EU member states and the European Parliament. It could take three or four years for the rules to come into force. The legislation is not just about banning plastic products. It also wants to make plastic producers bear the cost of waste management and cleanup efforts, and it proposes that EU states must collect 90% of single-use plastic bottles by 2025 through new recycling programs.
Please no (Score:3, Insightful)
Please don't let this spread to the U.S. I have some problem that makes the touch of metal silverware on my teeth feel like scratching my fingernails on a chalkboard, and I need to request plastic utensils everywhere I go because of that.
Re:Please no (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe look into some bamboo cutlery.
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That actually does exist, and other 'cheap wood cuttery'.
However a 'malformed' bamboo knife can also be connsidered a weapon.
Re:Please no (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Please no (Score:5, Insightful)
Take a McDonaldâ(TM)s salad for example. Stop providing forks and people are likely to stop buying salads.
(facepalm)
They're only going to be forbidden from providing single use plastic forks. They can provide wooden forks, metal forks, even recycled/reusable plastic forks. Use your fucking imagination.
Or use your fingers. You use them for the fries, the burgers, to dip the nuggets... what's wrong with touching a few leaves?
(and who goes to McDonalds to eat salads anyway?)
Re: Please no (Score:4, Informative)
https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]
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You're the dumbest human walking this planet
You sir, have spent valuable time shaming "the dumbest man on the planet"...
On the order of water running uphill, of the sun rising in the west, or of snow falling in the middle of summer,
you have just today won the internet.
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Bringing my own utensils when eating out would be kind of difficult/annoying/awkward, though.
How about a plastic or wooden Swiss Army knife, with camping utensils . . . ?
Or visit a camping store or Website. They have utensil sets that fold up and fit nicely in a tiny case in your pocket.
. . . and for added shits and giggles . . . hold up the Swiss Army knife to your head and talk into it.
The other folks in the restaurant will be amazed at your Swiss Army knife cell phone!
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Re:Please no (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Please no (Score:5)
No it doesn’t. Plastic is inert. That’s why we use it.
Humans are already ingesting microbeads through eating seafood and they have also made it into our tap water.
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no matter how many times you post it is inert.. doesnt make it true.
why you should not refill plastic water bottles:
Chemical Leaks
Plastic bottles may leak chemicals into the water when reused, especially if cleaned in a high-heat environment like your dishwasher. Most plastic water bottles are marked with a "1" signifying they're made from polyethylene terephthalate, which Harvard University says may contain antimony, a chemical that may cause cancer. More rigid bottles, like the type which contain water or
Re:Please no (Score:5, Informative)
Plastic is inert.
So is asbestos. Free tip: Don't ever classify something complicated by a single simple property.
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Recycling is the answer, not banning.
No, re-using is the answer. Like they already do in civilized countries where the people have an ounce of personal responsibility in their bodies.
eg. Germany. Buy a 2L bottle of soda there, and ... guess what? It's been used before and refilled.
Even better: You can simply not generate anything to recycle/re-use. eg. Order a pizza in Germany, and ... you stand by the door with a big plate so when the pizza guy arrives he can 'deliver' it direct to your plate without generating a whole bag of garbage just so
Re: Please no (Score:3)
Cheaper if you don't factor the damages and costs of pollution. Otherwise the most expensive item in a supermarket would be bottled water...
BTW in many cafes in A'dam you are specifically asked if you want a straw with the implication 'think well if you really need it'. I found out quickly that I don't need it...so why pollute.
I wonder if we can break the back of the marketeers that like to pack 5 gram item in 500 gram fancy colorful wraps...
Re:Please no (Score:4, Insightful)
Are you assuming that once something is made of plastic, it automagically ends up in the ocean?
No, it's what we're observing.
Re:Please no (Score:4, Insightful)
You appear to be under the impression that "kind of difficult" trumps filling the oceans with garbage.
Wouldn't the solution be (Score:2, Redundant)
Re:Wouldn't the solution be (Score:4, Insightful)
Used to be the case that you could get wooden chip forks.
Re:Wouldn't the solution be (Score:5, Insightful)
This will hurt fast food
Most fast food doesn't require utensils. Burgers, fried chicken, and pizza are all "finger food". Chinese takeout uses wood or bamboo chopsticks, which are biodegradable.
When I get plastic utensils or straws with my order, 90% of the time I throw them out without even using them. I for one welcome the ban. Good riddance.
Re:Wouldn't the solution be (Score:5, Insightful)
"The biggest logistical problem with all of these idiotic "Let's ban plastic [insert product here]" ideas is that almost invariably there is no adequate alternative."
Umm... IDK. Paper straws? Some restaurants are experimenting with straws make from pasta, and some are even using "gasp" straw (reeds, actually).
"When we ask ourselves why these utensils are turning up in streams and rivers, we come up with only three real possibilities:"
If one were to actually read up on the subject instead of constructing straw men to knock down, one might find that plastic straws, being extremely lightweight, tend to avoid sweepers, are easily carried into sewers and waterways, and have quite a few other problems.
"They're all failures of the government to do their f**ing jobs."
I thought the mantra was that the government was supposed to do nothing at all and let the "invisible hand" of the "free market" sort things out.
Hard to keep up these days.
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I missed this in my earlier reply. This sounds like the street sweepers aren't working very well, which is a design problem. If they aren't picking up straws, they also aren't picking up a significant percentage of any number of other things
Re: Wouldn't the solution be (Score:5, Informative)
I've worked with a food truck that does aome of the festival circuit in the midwest, where single-use plastic utensils are either heavily shunned or banned outright.
They looked at getting disposable wooden spoons for their dishes that require a spoon, and found it was cheaper to buy cheap stainless steel spoons and just hope that they come back.
Most of them do come back. They get washed and reused. The others (hopefully) get recycled in one of the many dozens of recycling bins, or maybe saved by the patron for their own reuse.
It is not as absurd as you think it is.
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No, they really aren't. Only a small percentage of people are so lazy that they'll just toss trash out on the streets; most people do not.
Most of the trash you see blowing around is there because the garbage collection process has become too automated as a cost-cutting measure. A person drives by, and a machine grabs the can, turns it upside down, and dumps it into the truck. When this happens, stuff often falls out, and it ends up on the street, because the
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Yes, they really are. If by small percentage you mean around 10 to 15%, I can agree.
I have the luxury of walking to and from work, about six minutes one-way. As I walk, I pick up any trash that isn't too far out of the way. Nearly all of it is fast food and junk food wrappers. A small portion is packaging for home-made lunches (ie. sandwich bags). I find the occasional failed exam/assignment and debt collection messages. I honestly can't think of a time that I came across anything that didn't fit into the
Re:Please no (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, you've denigrated the main mass use of straws, but there are other uses. E.g. my wife used them to make single use musical instruments to demonstrate acoustic principles. For some instruments she only used paper straws, and for others she only used plastic. It had to do with the different characteristics of the reed she created within the straw by selective cuts.
If you check around you will find that there are a large number of specialty straws designed for special purposes. My wife checked carefu
Re: Please no (Score:3, Insightful)
Only on Slashdot would we encounter somebody who is, or knows, an actual straw nerd. I mean this comment as a compliment, btw.
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Please install public-internet-facing cameras and microphones throughout your home, so we can be helpful to you in return and make 'suggestions' as to how you can live your life more efficiently, properly, and acceptably to everyone else. Thank you, have a nice day!
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Why are people who are for the environment always end up being against freedom? Or humans in general for that matter? What's wrong with bio-degradable straws?
Re:Please no (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Please no (Score:5, Insightful)
Please don't let this spread to the U.S. I have some problem that makes the touch of metal silverware on my teeth feel like scratching my fingernails on a chalkboard, and I need to request plastic utensils everywhere I go because of that.
Did you consider not biting your cutlery?
Seriously, I don't think anyone likes the feel of cutlery touching their teeth, that's why most people place the fork/spoon in their mouth then pull the cutlery out using their lips to separate the food from the utensil.
I'm pretty confident I go weeks at a time eating without cutlery touching my teeth.
Re:Please no (Score:5, Informative)
It's similar to chewing on aluminum foil if you have fillings, except in that case the aluminum makes direct contact with your fillings so the current is much higher.
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That is an interesting explanation, but I'm not sure it's behind my problem. If I am very careful to keep my lips between the metal and my teeth, I can cautiously use metal utensils without the nails-on-a-chalkboard feeling. On the other hand, the sound of metal utensils scraping against something like ceramic can cause the same response, like if someone is dragging the tines of their salad fork across their ceramic plate trying to get the last shreds of lettuce or whatever. It's exactly like nails on a cha
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And I had my fillings replaced once consensus was that amalgam fillings were bad. I thought most people did?
What sane person would NOT want to go through the pain and expense of having perfectly good metal fillings and caps replaced just because arth1 thinks they should be? I'm sure that the insurance companies that paid for the originals would be excited about paying for the replacements.
Re: Please no (Score:4, Insightful)
So just because you can't be bothered to remember to bring some alternative cutlery for your bizarre issue the health of the world's oceans should be continued to be out at risk. #wow
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They are talking single use plastic. I am sure if you want plastic hard plastic reusable cutlery you'd be able to buy it.
Re:Please no (Score:4, Insightful)
For use at home, sure, but what about when dining out, which is what I'm talking about?
Bring your own (and occasionally explain why you do so).
How do you do handle this now? You can't tell me that all restaurants
are capable (and willing) to provide you with plastic cutlery upon request.
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Yes, let's continue filling up the oceans to protect just you from minor dental discomfort.
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It's spreading.
But there are solutions!
Straws - there are metal (sucks to be you, though) and paper straws (like of old).
Cutlery - instead of plastic, use ... bioplastic compostable cutlery.
The problem is that plastic utensils are single use and unless recycled (which most
Flying? (Score:3, Interesting)
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Depends on the airline and/or class. I've been on many flights relatively recently where they have metal cutlery no problem.
Re:Flying? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure it's for safety. They just trust passengers in business more, so no safety issue with giving them metal utensils :)
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Will this apply to flights as well? I thought that plastic utensils there were generally regarded as a safety feature, not just a cheap convenience.
They can trash them instead of refuse; unless of course you are on a 50p flight...
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Re:Flying? (Score:4, Funny)
I can't say I've had plastic utensils in a plane. I can't say I've had any sharp ones either, at least not in economy class. Ordering a steak in first netted me a nice sharp stabby hijack the plane rated knife.
Re:Flying? (Score:5, Interesting)
I've noticed in the past few years that I get metal cutlery on flights. The knives have blunt tips.
Here in the US, knives and forks are always blunt. I grew up with forks with sharp tines that you could spear peas with, but when I moved, I discovered that Americans have never seen or heard of sharp tined forks, and used forks like if they were spoons, upside down. And knives - well, even steak knives are blunt, they're just serrated. Which, of course, steak knives shouldn't be. None of them could possibly sharpen a pencil, even.
I think it's partially a liability thing - if someone hurts themselves with sharp cutlery, there will be lawsuits. And partially Americans being exceptionally yellow, I mean risk-averse.
Use glass bottles. (Score:3)
It's considerably cleaner than plastic and would make all the quacks stop complaining about Bispheno A.
It just sinks to the bottom of the ocean and can turn back into sand through erosion.
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I think the GP means wax-coated paperboard, like old-fashioned milk cartons.
Re: Use glass bottles. (Score:5, Informative)
I think the GP means wax-coated paperboard, like old-fashioned milk cartons.
Or waxed paper. That's how straws were made back in the old days. It meant you had to spend time drinking a milk shake or ice cream soda, because you couldn't force-suck it through the straw. People actually sat around and talked while enjoying a milk shake or ice cream soda. I know, weird!
Good, but not where it is needed most (Score:5, Insightful)
This is great news. But Europe is already doing a lot to clean up and reduce its plastic use. This is most urgently needed pretty much everywhere else. In particular both in the US and in Asia. The sight of roadsides, fields and beaches littered with tons of plastic waste is ubiquitous in those places - and we all pay the price.
There is no reason for most of current plastic use other than externalizing disposal costs so that everyone bears those.
Going to be interesting. . (Score:2)
. . . seeing how this plays against the current British anti-knife campaign [surrenderyourknife.co.uk]. No metal cutlery, no plastic cutlery. . .
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I don't think they're thinking about kitchen utensils (of course you do rightly highlight the absurdity of anti-knife laws in that they ban pocket knives, but allow the knife used to carve the sunday roast....)
Hey Europe (Score:5, Interesting)
If you really want to do the right thing by Mother Nature, ban disposable diapers.
Re:Hey Europe (Score:5, Interesting)
No need to ban all of them - just those with plastic absorption gels and similar components.
At least in Finland and Sweden there are disposable diapers that are made 100% of paper (I know because I've used both brands for my kid). Essentially biodegradable - and also works very well as fuel for waste-to-energy plant.
Comparing to reusable nappies - running your washing machine at 60 or 90C to properly wash them just doesn't seem all that efficient, compared to the industrial scale process where trees get first converted to paper to nappies and then burned for energy after use. No, I have not ran the numbers.
So you can keep the convenience of disposable nappies without the downsides of plastics.
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Comparing to reusable nappies - running your washing machine at 60 or 90C to properly wash them just doesn't seem all that efficient, compared to the industrial scale process where trees get first converted to paper to nappies and then burned for energy after use. No, I have not ran the numbers.
We didn’t wash them ourselves - we used a commercial diaper service which at least claimed to avoid certain environmentally nasty chemical cleaners some commercial laundry services use. I did run the numbers, and the cost was is the same ballpark as using disposables. The main thing is you have to be willing to do a quick shakeout of the diapers into the toilet, which really isn’t a big deal.
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Cloth diapers used to be for ALL people.
Re:Hey Europe (Score:4, Informative)
Fuck that. I have a baby due in August. I'm not washing that shit.
In all seriousness... you will learn to deal with stuff you currently think is horribly gross - and it probably won’t bother you as much as you think.
... at least after the first month or two. At first, you’ll be thinking “WHAT have I DONE?!”
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I suspect the sleep deprivation is part of the secret reprogramming process.
BYO Shopping Bags ... BYO Flatware (Score:4, Interesting)
About time other developed countries followed (Score:2)
The use of plastics especially for disposable items is irresponsible. I wish these were not so cheap and the real cost of disposal and ecological impact was factored in their price. Trying to convince the public for more envir
Hopefully, they will quit dumping in oceans (Score:5, Informative)
Likewise, 5 nations are responsible for 60% of all garbage in the ocean.
It turns out that five countries are the leading contributors to this crisis. And all are in Asia. In a recent report, Ocean Conservancy claims that China, Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam are spewing out as much as 60 percent of the plastic waste that enters the world’s seas. [pri.org]
America stopped decades ago, so instead, we have had it going to China and other nations. That also needs to stop. ALL OF IT. Far better for America to recycle, bury, or burn it.
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America stopped decades ago, so instead, we have had it going to China and other nations. That also needs to stop. ALL OF IT. Far better for America to recycle, bury, or burn it.
Burning plastic releases massive amounts of sequestered carbon into the atmosphere (not to mention an array of toxic chemicals) so please do the rest of us a favour and talking restrict your choices to burying, recycling or best of all stop using plastic.
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Be suspicious - a few points (Score:3)
2) Straws can't be washed so they have to be disposable
3) Straws are small, there mass is negligible, same with plastic grocery bags. As a percentage of your yearly waste I doubt they make 0.5%
4) Be very suspicious of anyone pushing these bans. They are likely virtue signalling and care more about appearing to be doing something than actually doing it.
*To be fair though do to our significantly higher wealth and consumption means our damage to the environment is many times more.
Counterproductive Virtue-Signaling from Clean Nats (Score:3)
As of 2017, 60% of ocean plastic pollution was generated by China, Indonesia, the Philippines, Vietnam, and Sri Lanka, in that order, with China vastly outdoing the others. No EU country is within the top 20, which would indicate a very minuscule amount of plastic waste leaking into the oceans. If European governments want to waste a massive amount of resources to worry about this, the pollution generated is going to be more overall, not less.
Re:This seens misplaced (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This seens misplaced (Score:5, Informative)
Re:This seens misplaced (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This seens misplaced (Score:5, Insightful)
Given a multitude of problems, and limited resources (money) for tackling those problems, you maximize the reduction in problems by applying your resources most efficiently. By tackling the worst but easiest-to-fix problems first, even if that means leaving smaller but more-costly-to-fix problems unresolved.
Your way of thinking is why we waste billions of dollars trying to make air travel safer [airfleets.net] to prevent a few hundred deaths per year, while over a million people die in car accidents every year [who.int]. Or why nuclear power is a pariah, when statistically it's the safest power source man has ever invented [nextbigfuture.com] (yes, safer than renewables). You prioritize tackling the problem which has the greatest emotional impact (i.e. in proportion to news coverage), rather than the problem which will yield the greatest numerical decrease for the smallest expenditure.
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If you can only do one activity at a time, this makes sense. But since that's not the case, your argument makes zero sense.
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I'm starting with the man in the mirror
I'm asking him to change his ways
And no message could have been any clearer
If you wanna make the world a better place
Take a look at yourself and then make a change
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I already recycle my plastic.
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Why not start with the man in the mirror?
I know I'm asking him to change his ways ...
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I read recently that the vast majority of plastic come from rivers in Asia and Africa. Why do this in Europe?
Better question: Why not do this in Europe? God forbid the local environment gets a bit nicer. How horrible that would be.
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People just need to start being more responsible
And how would we achieve that ?
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Hold parents responsible for the behaviour of their children
So when I see a kid throw plastic crap in the park, I should call 911 so they can find his parents and write a ticket ?
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"Biodegradable" means that the chemicals in the product are released into the environment quickly. And paper and wood products are *loaded* with processing chemicals, paper being particularly egregious. Biodegradable plastic is even worse.
Conventional plastics degrade/release the chemicals very very slowly, causing very little actual chemical harm to the environment.
So what this would/will do is make things *look* better more quickly, while flooding the environment with chemicals that
Re:Manufacturers bear brunt of responsible cleanup (Score:5, Insightful)
Conventional plastics degrade/release the chemicals very very slowly, causing very little actual chemical harm to the environment.
Um, No. [sciencealert.com]
Also, your definition of biodegradable
"Biodegradable" means that the chemicals in the product are released into the environment quickly.
seems a little too conveniently crafted for supporting your thesis.
I think this one is a bit more accurate [merriam-webster.com]
Re:Manufacturers bear brunt of responsible cleanup (Score:5, Insightful)
This ban is something that has been happening all over the world in some shape or form. Personally, I have little problem with it. I'm actually happy to see when a restaurant or coffee shop has utensils that are biodegradable. It's a great move.
What I don't like, from the end of this article, is the other part of the EU proposal. Why should the manufacturers be responsible for preventing people from being jackasses and throwing their garbage wherever they please? There are so many analogies to make here, it's not worth it.
People ultimately need to be held responsible for proper disposal and/or recycling of materials and consumables they are consuming. The manufacturer in this case isn't building in some weird feature making it difficult to throw the stirring straw in a garbage can. People just need to start being more responsible and not thinking that someone else will clean up after them.
It's pretty basic. Currently manufacturers are not responsible for the costs of disposing of their products. They can make them as toxic and environmentally problematic as they want because they can offload the costs and problems their products cause after the end of their useful lives on the taxpayer and the environment. If you make manufacturers responsible for paying not only for development, marketing, sales and product support but also for disposal you motivate the manufacturers to come up with new and innovative methods to make their products as easily and cheaply recyclable as possible in order to maximise profits. It's just a way to leverage the inventiveness of private industry and the workings of the free market to solve a very serious problem that results form own activities of companies and I think it will work because industry tends to be good at coming up with clever ways of solving sticky problems if profits are at stake. Now, I'm sure that you, as libertarian, find this idea terribly unjust but the rest of us find it equally unjust that private profit making companies can drown us in plastic garbage, make us pay for the mess and not be in any way responsible for solving that problem. Unfortunately for the manufacturers Europe is a cluster of democracies and the people drowning in plastic garbage are in charge, not the industrialists. I'm pretty sure most Europeans will welcome this measure.
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It's pretty basic. Currently manufacturers are not responsible for the costs of disposing of their products.
They aren't the ones disposing of their products, so it seems reasonable that they aren't responsible for consumers who dispose of them inappropriately.
They can make them as toxic and environmentally problematic as they want
I think a spate of people dying from using toxic plastic forks would be noticed and something would be done. They notice toxic shellfish outbreaks, and toxic salad greens.
unjust but the rest of us find it equally unjust that private profit making companies can drown us in plastic garbage,
If you are drowning in plastic garbage, talk to your neighbors. They're the ones disposing of things incorrectly.
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People ultimately need to be held responsible for proper disposal and/or recycling of materials and consumables they are consuming.
That's more expensive, more work, and less likely to be enforced. It makes sense to place the onus in a centralized place where it's actually enforceable. Companies are made to be held responsible for all kinds of things consumers do for this reason, and it makes sense if your only goal is to actually solve a problem and not wring your hands about how to evenly divide accountabi
Re:Manufacturers bear brunt of responsible cleanup (Score:5, Informative)
I must admit I'm entirely fucking bewildered by the number of people that seem to need to drink out of a straw.
At least there are now adult sippy cups available, and the branding on them is clever too - 'sports bottle' almost sounds mature.
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And Victoria continues to dump raw sewage into the ocean, as it has done for decades.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/... [www.cbc.ca]
Good to know that the govt has its priorities right and is focusing on banning plastic straws!
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I can say with some confidence that it does not seem to be getting enforced in Vancouver at this time.
Also... plain paper straws don't work so well... unless you are finishing your drink fairly quickly, you can end up with pulp in your drink.
Wax on straws can mitigate this problem, but then you end up with something that is either not compostable because of the presence of oil products, making it essentially no different than plastic, or else you end up with a coating on the straw that will affect the
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Okay, I get it, no throwaway items. But what about q-tips?
Are we supposed to reuse them? Or will they start making them of bamboo?
Genuine Q-tips are made with paper shafts, not plastic.
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Most cotton tip applicators already use a cardboard stick, I don't think there's an issue here.
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Ice. it's because the drinks are 90% ice instead of liquid, and it's annoying to drink from a glass full of ice.
I actually use a straw quite a bit at home. That said, it's not a disposable straw, it's a thick plastic that I wash and re-use.
This is the one part of the proposal that concerns me. I'm not worried that restaurants will make me eat with my fingers, I know that they'll just use reusable cutlery, but I am worried that they'll expect me to drink their 90% ice beverages without a straw rather than pr
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I do, constantly, but it's so easy to forget, and a real pain waiting while they go re-make it. That said, I also enjoy my drinks cold, very cold, so ice is the best way to accomplish that (and most restaurants offer free refills, so the decreased liquid volume isn't a huge issue for me.)
Reusable straws exist, and there's no reason they can't use them just as they use reusable cutlery. I just don't expect they actually will.
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