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Businesses

Legacy Airlines Are Now Coming For Your Carry-on Bag (telegraph.co.uk) 140

Posted by msmash from the up-next dept.
Traditional airlines worldwide are rapidly eliminating long-standing perks from their basic fares, blurring the line between full-service and budget carriers, according to industry analysis of 90 major airlines.

Air Canada's decision to ban standard carry-on luggage for its lowest-fare passengers from January 3 marks the latest rollback, joining United Airlines, Finnair, and others. Most legacy carriers, including British Airways, Air France, and Lufthansa, have already stripped checked baggage and seat selection from basic fares, signaling an industry-wide shift toward budget airline practices.

Legacy Airlines Are Now Coming For Your Carry-on Bag More | Reply

Legacy Airlines Are Now Coming For Your Carry-on Bag

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  • Race to the bottom (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Registered Coward v2 ( 447531 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @02:49PM (#65053507)
    As long as fliers go for the lowest fare you can expect more unbundling of items that used to be included in the price. Airplane seats are a perishable commodity so if you can fill the last few seats with rock bottom fares you still come out ahead vs. flying them empty because a competitor was slightly cheaper.

    • Re:Race to the bottom (Score:4, Insightful)

      by smoot123 ( 1027084 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @02:53PM (#65053515)

      As long as fliers go for the lowest fare you can expect more unbundling of items that used to be included in the price.

      And given they're selling all those seats, passengers seem to prefer low fares over bundled fares. Personally, I'd rather check a bag than dork around with the overhead bins so I appreciate having the option to not pay for overhead space.

      Airlines aren't dumb. The part which sets prices clearly puts a lot of thought into it (if they didn't, the fare structure would be so, so much simpler). If it turns out everyone buys both a seat and an overhead slot, they'll go back to bundling them.

      • If it turns out everyone buys both a seat and an overhead slot, they'll go back to bundling them.

        I don't think so. In the same way as a $5 box of breakfast cereal used to contain (say) 48 oz of product but now contains 40 oz for the same price, this is the airlines' way of engaging in shrinkflation.

        • This. It is not like they are hurting financially, and need to do this to stay solvent, which was excuse for starting to charge for checked bags post 9/11. This is just maximizing shareholder revenue in an environment with insufficient competition due to consolidation. It is millionaires screwing over customers, who have no other option, for the benefit of billionaires. It will get worse in the future, not better, because we elected a billionaire to over see the government that is supposed to prevent this k

      • Are there any airlines that let you check a bag for free but don't let you have a free carry-on? I think the issue with removing the free carry-on is that most everyone needs some sort of baggage. When I was really young and travelling somewhere for a short (2-3 days) duration in the summertime (light and non-bulky clothes), I could sometimes get away with just a small backpack, but the vast majority of people can't. If 98% of customers need something, then separating it out into a separate charge, reall

        • Also women carry purses but men don't. Are they going to tell women they can't bring purses or tell men only women can bring a bag? Either seems bad

          • Also women carry purses but men don't. Are they going to tell women they can't bring purses or tell men only women can bring a bag? Either seems bad

            TFA is behind payall, but I'm guessing it's for bags in overhead but not under seat (yet).

            • Still doesn't solve the problem. Then a guy can bring a laptop bag but if a woman wants a purse with her she can only bring the purse unless she wants to put it in a laptop bag and mostly fill it with their purse?

              • Re: (Score:3)

                by Nkwe ( 604125 )

                Still doesn't solve the problem. Then a guy can bring a laptop bag but if a woman wants a purse with her she can only bring the purse unless she wants to put it in a laptop bag and mostly fill it with their purse?

                It's not a matter of if it's a purse or a laptop bag, it's a matter of if what you bring fits completely under the seat in front of you or if you need it to go in the overhead bin. While of course this may change, currently there is checked luggage, carry on luggage, and personal items. Checked luggage is of course checked, usually for a fee. Carry on goes in the overhead bin (this is the category that airlines are now excluding from bare bones tickets). Personal items go under the seat in front of you. I h

                • I haven't heard of any airline charging for or unbundling single personal items.

                  Frontier tried it with my partner circa 2016. No idea if they still try that shit, we haven't gone near them since.

                  • Flying from Dubai to Miami to Bogota, Colombia, October 2014:

                    Dubai to Miami via Emirates, 100% free checked luggage, 100% free overhead, 3 great meals and great entertainment section. Very comfy seats. Reasonably priced.

                    Miami to Bogota via Spirit Airlines: I paid $50 to check my suitcase, paid $60 for the overhead. When I arrived at the gate with my laptop bag, medicine bag, backpack and overhead bin smaller suitcase, agent got incensed.

                    They exempted the actual medicine in the shopping bag but made me toss

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Ogive17 ( 691899 )
            Don't worry, you can still bring your fanny pack and simply store it under the seat in front of you!
          • Women can put their purses in their laptop bag and, as long as it fits in the baggage sizer, they can store the whole of it under the seat in front of them. Women's purses, like pretty much anything else, can act as a projectile if something goes wrong and they need to be securely stowed. It's not a gender issue. Everybody gets the same *volume* of space under the seat in front of them. Either your personal item fits or it doesn't.

          • They call purses a "personal item". The rule used to be " One carry-on bag, and one personal item per passenger. "

            This was so that a woman could have both her purse and her travel bag. It evolved to one small item (purse, laptop-bag, backpack, etc.) that fits under the seat in front of you as your "personal item", and one carry-on item (typically a larger bag) that fits in the overhead compartment.

            Under this new rule, they will charge for an item that goes in the overhead compartment.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

          They still include a "personal item" that fits under the seat. So the super light travellers, business types going for a night or two, etc. might benefit. What's really going to happen is that people are going to push that personal item as hard as they can, and toss them all in the overhead bins anyway, just like they previously tried to get away with the biggest carryon possible.

          In fact, I suspect that the airlines charging for checked bags motivated the proliferation of huge carryons, which slows down boa

          • They still include a "personal item" that fits under the seat. So the super light travellers, business types going for a night or two, etc. might benefit. What's really going to happen is that people are going to push that personal item as hard as they can, and toss them all in the overhead bins anyway, just like they previously tried to get away with the biggest carryon possible.

            In fact, I suspect that the airlines charging for checked bags motivated the proliferation of huge carryons, which slows down boarding and deboarding (which costs money), now motivating airlines to charge for carryons.

            I suspect you're right.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

          Are there any airlines that let you check a bag for free but don't let you have a free carry-on? I think the issue with removing the free carry-on is that most everyone needs some sort of baggage

          I think Southwest has a free checked bag and charges for carry on. The reason is that most of the time wasted during boarding is getting carry on baggage stowed, so they charge for that. Checked baggage gets tossed in the hold during boarding. So it basically means less time spent boarding.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by spth ( 5126797 )

          > Are there any airlines that let you check a bag for free but don't let you have a free carry-on?

          Aer Lingus.

      • People are only bringing bags on the plane because air Canada has a very poor record of losing luggage. If they didn't lose luggage than I would prefer to check the bag too.

        • People are only bringing bags on the plane because air Canada has a very poor record of losing luggage. If they didn't lose luggage than I would prefer to check the bag too.

          I'm guessing you actually mean they have a good record of losing luggage, or a poor record of not losing it. :-)

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jvkjvk ( 102057 )

        " If it turns out everyone buys both a seat and an overhead slot, they'll go back to bundling them."

        Why? This gives them more money for nothing. If they bundle, people will see that as part of the base price, and be checking against airlines who don't bundle. They will lose.

      • 'lowest fare'.

        More often than you apparently know, 'lowest' fare is actually the lowest class of fare. Not necessarily the lowest fare for that seat on that date.

        Na, Air Canada is already lacking more than it ought to, lackluster in so many ways. If I don't need to go to Athens again, I'll stick to Southwest. No pretenses.

    • At least in Europe, train service is improving, but I dont have any hope for North American passenger trains

    • It's not a race to the bottom as much as it is a race to customisation. Flying is ludicrously cheap now. All the perks of the past are still available and largely for even cheaper than they used to be.

      While my local airport taxes and fees put and end to it, only a few years back I was able to fly 1500km for less than the cost of the train fare to the airport. A checked bag (45 EUR) cost more than the ticket (35 EUR), but even combined I don't need to think back very far to find a time when I couldn't get a

      • Maybe in Europe - US domestic flights cost much more than the european budget airlines

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jvkjvk ( 102057 )

        It's not a race to customization - it's a race to extract as much money out of the customer as they can.

        Simple as that.

        To try to paint this as something great and positive fits right in with a pro-corporate mindset.

  • Free tickets anywhere in the world (some fees may apply).

  • The next step (Score:4, Funny)

    by GrahamJ ( 241784 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @02:57PM (#65053527)

    Next up: Clothing surcharge. You want to fly naked, fine, but if you want to be warm and modest well that's gonna cost ya

  • and they will pay for lost, stolen, damaged, bags?

  • Day trippers? (Score:3)

    by Marc_Hawke ( 130338 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @03:05PM (#65053543)

    So, no checked luggage, no carry-on luggage. Are they expecting that you're going to have the return trip on the same day?

    It seems like booking a flight is going to turn into 'ordering a pizza.'

    Pick your seat option:
    Pick your luggage option:
    Pick your food option:
    Pick your in-flight entertainment option:
    Do you want a hot towel?

    • You guys are getting food options?

    • Couldn't happen sooner. I order Pizza far more often than I fly, and it wouldn't be the first time I've taken a same-day return flight where my luggage needs were minimal.

      Ultimately what it leads us to is providing tailored service for the individual, and I'm always for that. I'd happily pay more for extra luggage, but rarely want a meal except on the longest international flights (the 17hr hop from Australia to the Middle East, for instance). And I always provide my own entertainment.

    • So, no checked luggage, no carry-on luggage. Are they expecting that you're going to have the return trip on the same day?

      I have done that for one day meetings, but since it was a business trip I was not that price sensitive.

    • So, no checked luggage, no carry-on luggage. Are they expecting that you're going to have the return trip on the same day?

      Why not. There are many business travellers doing short hops like this. I myself not even as a business had to do something like this before. Why should I have to pay the same as someone who fills the overhead container to the limit?

      I hope flying is going to be more like ordering a pizza. Do you like pineapple on pizza? Not everyone does, that is why we have different options for different people.

      • I used to do this as a business traveler. But back when I was living that lifestyle, I had airline status that gave me the bags for free anyway. The real purpose of this is drip pricing. However, many leisure travelers find it attractive because you can buy the flight ticket for cheap ahead of time but you don't have to pay for the luggage until closer to your trip. In the most generous terms, airlines are financing part of the cost for free. Except that it's usually cheaper to buy the luggage at the t
    • That's pretty much how booking a flight already works. You can, of course, buy seat or luggage later, but there's usually a discount if you buy it at the time of purchase.

      There are quite a few companies (with limited success) that will pick up your bags from your home ahead of your vacation and deliver them to your hotel. They will then do the reverse at the end of the trip. However, those services are more expensive than checked baggage.

    • More like, do you want to sit next to a conservative?

    • Are they expecting that you're going to have the return trip on the same day?

      Pretty much reduced to that British guy I watch on YouTube who samples airlines all over the world.

  • Time to get a 'luggage vest' (Score:4, Informative)

    by Bruce66423 ( 1678196 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @03:11PM (#65053559)

    I used one for a period - packed the contents of a second bag into something I wore onto the plane. Got a comment from a budget carrier employee that I was 'obviously an experienced traveller'. I've stopped playing that game in recent years, but it's one that those want to wind up airlines might like to check out. Mine has a large pocket in the back big enough for a laptop!

    https://store.meanswhile.net/c... [meanswhile.net]

    • I used one for a period - packed the contents of a second bag into something I wore onto the plane. Got a comment from a budget carrier employee that I was 'obviously an experienced traveller'. I've stopped playing that game in recent years, but it's one that those want to wind up airlines might like to check out. Mine has a large pocket in the back big enough for a laptop!

      https://store.meanswhile.net/c... [meanswhile.net]

      Yea, I have a Barbour jacket with a game pocket that could easily hold enough clothes for a day or two plus laptop or iPad. Iused to carry my iPad or laptop in it to avoid a snatch and grab thief taking it while walking.

    • Scottevest.com has some great options.

      Once got screwed by the airline (Air Canada) changing the weight requirements on my return trip. Ended up transferring around twenty pounds of stuff from my suitcase into my coat-of-pockets. Which went into the overhead bin once I was onboard.

  • Do a Steve Bannon (Score:3)

    by zawarski ( 1381571 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @03:19PM (#65053567)
    And wear two shirts.
  • I sense that clothing with very large pockets is going to become very popular. Can they make you take off a sweater if it has practically a whole laptop bag built into it?

    • It is like oil shale being bitumen that you can retort from a mined rock, whereas shale oil is something you recover by "fracking" a shale layer deep beneath the ground.

      A garment bag is a piece of soft-sided luggage into which you can pack one or more suits of clothes, whereas the bag garment is a kind of wearable luggage.

  • Fees should include minimum baggage (Score:3)

    by Midnight Thunder ( 17205 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @04:32PM (#65053739) Homepage Journal

    Having been bitten by bait and switch luggage costs, including having to pay for carry-on, I feel advertised prices should be mandated to include a standard size carry on. If there is a reduced faire available for just going with a handbag (no larger than a brief case or satchel), then that should be as a discount during purchase.

    • Yeah, that would be resonable... but that's not how phycology of marketing works. You add-on something for a price rather than remove (feel of loss) for cheaper. And price comparison for the cheapest... Alas this is 'value-based' pricing not 'cost-based' - another way to extract more revenue. They have no noticable additional cost to haul our bags, the ~20lb is way in noise of average human weight variance and the space is there anyway.

      It's nice that most of the cheap brokers now include all fees (taxes, ai

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jvkjvk ( 102057 )

        "Some very cheap airlines though charge hefty check-in fees (RyanAir) unless you do it online but that's you doing something rather than having something (bag)."

        You doing something that appears to be quite necessary to take the flight, right? That's f*d up. I hope there is big disclaimers about it. Yeah, right.

  • Soon you'll have to swipe your credit card to enter the airplane bathroom.

  • Every day we’re getting closer to the business model of the Ferengi home world. The elevator has a fee but you can use the stairs for free. Likewise with a waiting room. Sitting in a chair will cost you but standing is free.

    • In Georgia and other former Soviet countries, some older apartment buildings still feature coin-operated elevators.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by twms2h ( 473383 )

      Every day we’re getting closer to the business model of the Ferengi home world. The elevator has a fee but you can use the stairs for free. Likewise with a waiting room. Sitting in a chair will cost you but standing is free.

      It might not be such a bad idea for fighting obesity.

      Nowadays I often opt for the stairs just for the workout. When I was younger I argued that we should take the elevator because that's why god has invented them.

  • Lowcost European companies started to charge for overhead hand luggage, maybe ten years ago, and I thought they were just trying to squeeze money out of us.

    But to be honest, with time I started to appreciate the new way. You are still free to bring a small luggage which can fit under the seat if it has to, which is enough for a few days trip. And while before ir was always a struggle as the amount of luggage people carried could not physically fit in the cabin, now you're sure that if you pas for hand lugg

    • Not if you want to bring a laptop, a camera and some snacks with you on the plane along with all the cables dongles and chargers they need. Also I bring a tripod for my phone so I don't have to hold it the whole time I'm watching the entertainment I bring with me.

  • Weight based ticket pricing (Score:5, Insightful)

    by zerosomething ( 1353609 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @04:50PM (#65053779) Homepage

    Just do the fat tax finally and move on already. The weight of the passenger and their shit is directly related to the cost of getting them there. Airlines need to stop dancing around this and just do it. Yea if you weigh 400 lb with a carry on you should pay just as much as the 120lb lady with 5 bags of outfits for the weekend.

    • Only if they provide a proportional amount of space. A short old lady may weigh less than a tall middle-aged man, but it's not as if either have any control over their fucking *stature*, yet the latter is expected to fit into an ever smaller seat pitch.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by abulafia ( 7826 )
      Way too many rich fat people with connections who will both feel shamed and whine about being charged more. I can only imagine the legacy media firestorm and congressional investigations. Remember that there are people who argue that IRS audits should audit the rich no more than the poor, out of "fairness". (With a straight face, but I'm guessing that's frequently botox.)

      Making a national conversation out of messing with old fat rich people body shame would be a rather hilarious way for an airline CEO to

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by labnet ( 457441 )

      It costs around $5/100kg/1000km typical short haul flight in extra fuel.
      I’m not sure that’s enough for all the hassle in social stigma, weighing people etc.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      It would be a legal minefield. Anyone whose weight is related to some medical condition, some disability, would be protected in many jurisdictions. Can't charge extra for a wheelchair.

    • Most airlines (Southwest excluded) will charge extra for passengers who cannot fit in one seat with the armrest fully down. Unfortunately the armrests aren't quite rigid enough. Had a guy sit down next to me and get the armrest down. But I could see the metal flex as he did it. Was waiting for it to snap off. They should have a baggage sizer and a person sizer.

      However, carryon is a bit different. There is usually enough room in the cargo hold that, in addition to passenger baggage, flights can often

  • Remove the overhead bins (Score:3)

    by Improv ( 2467 ) <pgunn01@gmail.com> on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @04:50PM (#65053783) Homepage Journal

    They slow down loading and unloading and are overall a net minus for airplanes.

    • Double decker it then. there is so much unused space above the head.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Nkwe ( 604125 )

      They slow down loading and unloading and are overall a net minus for airplanes.

      I suspect you are not a business traveler. Most business travelers don't check luggage (for trips shorter than a week) because if you check a bag, it 1) might get lost, 2) the extra 20-30 minutes to get your bag from bag claim matters to business travelers, and 3) if you miss a connection and need to alter your plans mid-trip, and you have only carry on, changing flights is easy; if you have checked a bag it is very difficult as TSA rules require you to travel on the same plane as your bag and to change the

      • Re:Remove the overhead bins (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Ed Tice ( 3732157 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @09:46PM (#65054317)
        As someone who used to travel for business quite a bit, I consider it a net benefit that the airline charges for carryon bags. If there were two carriers with the same price ticket but one got a free bag and the other required a fee, I'd book the airline that charged the fee! Charging for carryon means that I won't ever be in the situation where they try to gate check my bag even if I'm late for a flight. With free carryon, if you don't board right away you will end up being gate checked. It's a complete waste of time and effort. Paying to have a guaranteed spot for my bag is money well spent.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by jvkjvk ( 102057 )

          Of course, when your employer is footing the bill, it is much easier to just go all out and get whatever they will go for. Fly business class, or First across the pond, for example.

          But these extra fees for normal people are a pain.

          • My employer does not pay for first or business class and never has. For people traveling recreationally, they can decide to either pay a fee and be sure that they get to hold on to their bag (many people would consider this a bargain if, for example, they are carrying a tuxedo that they rented for a wedding) or they can choose not to pay a fee and check their bag.

            The current system is random. You pay for a "free" carryon bag when you buy the ticket. But when you get to the airport, you may or may not g

  • Can't come quickly enough (Score:4, Insightful)

    by lamer01 ( 1097759 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2024 @04:51PM (#65053785)
    I am so fed up with the el cheapo crowd that try to stuff gigantic carry ons on board while their 2nd item which is supposed to be a small personal bag or something is ALSO the size of a carry on. Basically current jets don't have enough carry on space for all the crap people carry on.
    • The low cost carriers get it (sort of) right in that they board passengers who paid for a bag first and then they close the overhead. I find this yucky because I don't want to board first. I want to board last and still have space for my bag. But if you fly Spirit or Frontier and have paid for your bag, they will open the overhead for you again after checking the boarding pass *very* carefully. Nice thing is you can finish up whatever you are doing, get to the gate fifteen minutes before departure, stow

    • Blame the airlines for charging for checked luggage. This wasn't a problem until they started nickel and diming.

    • ... ALSO the size of a carry on.

      Back when 737s did the regional routes, technically, there wasn't a limit to the number of small personal bags one could carry-on. The staff allowed the extra "personal bags" to be stored on the floor. Then, we had to remove hearing-aids and reading glasses. It all stopped when the iPhone became popular.

    • The airline sets the size of the carryon allowed. Blame the airline for allowing it.

  • They've managed to take away so many standard "features" that it's no longer worth it to me to book those lowest-of-all fares. You have to be a serious tightwad to go for them, and then, you end up paying for "regular" economy anyway, once you're done paying for a carry-on and a seat assignment.

    • The alternative is you pay for the extras / premium tier but don't get it. I never buy the seat assignment feature / tier, but I regularly see people throw fits (fairly!) when they pay $30-$50 per leg and still end up in a middle seat they didn't choose. The airlines get you no matter what.

      • You must fly different airlines than I. I've never seen somebody *not* get the seat they had reserved. I have numerous times seen someone approach the seat they had reserved, to find someone sitting in it already. They show the person their seat assignment, and the "squatter" usually politely moves, explaining that they made a mistake. And if they don't, the passenger with the reserved seat shows the flight attendant, and the flight attendant intervenes. I've never seen a flight attendant tell the person wi

  • When you adjust for inflation.

    In the 1990s, I used to have to pay about $300 or $350 for a round trip ticket from Houston to Grand Rapids. These days, it's about $600 for that same ticket. But due to inflation, $300 in 1990 is now equivalent to $725. This is one example, but a similar pattern applies to many, maybe most, routes.

  • Baggage is not a perk, unless the author is suggesting we all become nudists.

    • There are people who go places just for the day and don't need baggage. Of course those tend to be the same passengers who get their baggage for free. Hint you can get it for free at any airline if you are credit worthy. Apply for their credit card. Use it for free baggage. Cancel before the annual fee. But I never had do to that since, when I was traveling, I had status that gave it to me for free.

      I don't know how common day trips are. I've done it once. When I did, I didn't realize that the machi

  • I wouldn't mind all those huge carry-ons blocking the whole cabin going away. That's what the baggage storage area is for! On the other hand, it was the AIRLINES themselves that are to blame for that by discouraging checking baggage.

    I still maintain if it has wheels, it should not be allowed as CARRY on.

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