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Amazon Europe Unit Paid No Taxes on $55 Billion Sales in 2021 (bloomberg.com) 193

Amazon's main European retail business reported 1.16 billion euros ($1.26 billion) of losses in 2021, which allowed the company to pay no income tax and receive 1 billion euros in tax credits, corporate filings seen by Bloomberg show. From the report: The Luxembourg-based business recorded sales of 51.3 billion euros last year, up 17% from 43.8 billion euros in 2020. The unit, called Amazon EU Sarl, includes revenue generated by its e-commerce activities in the U.K, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland, Sweden and the Netherlands. Amazon has been a target of European regulators over its tax arrangements. The Seattle-based company won an appeal on a 250 million-euro ($280 million) tax bill imposed after regulators said agreements with Luxembourg dating back to 2003 amounted to illegal state aid. Last year, the European Commission appealed in the European Court of Justice.
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Amazon Europe Unit Paid No Taxes on $55 Billion Sales in 2021

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  • gee thanks (Score:4, Funny)

    by ZiggyZiggyZig ( 5490070 ) on Wednesday April 20, 2022 @04:03PM (#62463436)

    We're lucky we have a tax credit mechanism so that this little-known company didn't go bankrupt! Those are terrible losses.

    • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Wednesday April 20, 2022 @04:09PM (#62463460)
      Amazon did. They lobbied for it and got it. As did other mega corps that abuse it.

      And we're not gonna do a damn thing about it, either. Not so long as we're distracted by CRT and trans sports and and the whole culture war. They did the same thing with the "Southern Strategy". Europe has an equivalent, they just used poor eastern Europeans. That's what Brexit was about.

      It's all there to get us punching down and fighting each other. You'd think after millennia of this trick being used on us we'd learn, but we never do. The lead in the water and smog in the air doesn't help matters.
      • by Z80a ( 971949 )

        Stuff got pretty close during the occupy wallstreet thing, but then suddenly a lot of absurdly stupid ideas from all political sides got "mysteriously boosted".

        • by Powercntrl ( 458442 ) on Wednesday April 20, 2022 @04:33PM (#62463550) Homepage

          Stuff got pretty close during the occupy wallstreet thing

          That kinda fizzled out when they got tired of living in tents, and I think many of them forgot what the hell they were trying to accomplish in the first place. Reminds me a lot of what happened recently with those silly truckers, too.

          Protests are supposed to raise awareness about an issue, but as long as the majority who shows up to vote are still happy with the status quo, today's protest soon becomes yesterday's news.

          • by Z80a ( 971949 )

            The protest itself was not the issue, but the fact there were a lot of people actively hating on the banks and focusing on making em pay.
            Sooner or later someone would come up with some strategy to actually harm the banks quite badly, kinda like the gamestop thing we had, but even worse.
            So, a distraction had to be made.

          • Raise awareness so that what can happen, exactly? The people they were protesting against held basically the same political views that they do. The whole thing was started by an anti-consumerism newspaper, which is odd because most of the people who showed up were definitely the consumerist types, among other things, carrying around ipads.

          • All that is remembered: "Shit is fucked up and bullshit". That was the most coherent statement to emerge from OWS.
            • by narcc ( 412956 )

              The messaging was purposefully distorted to make it look like no one knew why they were protesting.

          • the FBI used the patriot act to coordinate with local police (after pinky swearing that they'd never use the Act against US citizens) and went in and cleared them out. Then the courts harassed the organizers while they press went around cherry picking the fringe elements and quote mining them to create bad press.

            Basically, a whole bunch of powerful people used the establishment and it's powers to stop the movement and it worked.
            • by narcc ( 412956 )

              Thankfully, that's getting harder. We're not nearly as naive as we were then, and we know how to mobilize people now.

          • by sg_oneill ( 159032 ) on Wednesday April 20, 2022 @11:59PM (#62464344)

            Yeah that happens. When I was in my protest stage during Uni (in australia) back in the 1990s, I remember we did an occupation of the Uni Admin after they announced massive course cuts that would effectively have terminated many of our degrees mid way through. So during the university-senate meeting where it was due to approved, we all kinda stormed in and made it somewhat impossible for the meeting to continue. Coupled with some good lawyers that found some university regulations saying they couldnt just relocate the meeting we had them on lock for nearly a month as various people trickled in and out of the sprawling action.

            The problem is over time we got more and more unhinged people turning up, and suddenly we had people demanding an "End to the federal reserve" [god knows how a uni would do that], america out of the the middle east, some anti-semetic dude who ranted incessantly about the rothschildes, etc.

            In the end we worked out most of these people where not actually students, so we did a student union meeting where we agreed only students could participate, and had campus security (who where on our side, the one good outside demand we added was an end to the plan to privatise security, so security loved us. Plus state an law said that only campus security had juristiction, so security offered to arrest any cop that tried to enter campus without a student or staff card to arrest us).

            And eventually we won. At least for a few years. The courses stayed and campus security kept their jobs. But for a while we where drowning in wingnuts trying to hijack the whole thing until the student union and security workers union ganged up to kick them off the bloody campus.

            Hijackers ruin everything, and be it Trots, Fascists, conspiracy loons or campus tories, they'll all try and to do that hijack. Because the left can't organize for shit, and thats a damn shame.

            • Hijackers ruin everything

              People don't even need to hijack the actual protest, they could hijack the message and repurpose it elsewhere. I think a lot of the Occupy Wallstreet movement lost its wind when "Occupy ${insertOtherThingHere}" started popping up everywhere. Same with many other protests. I think one of the turning point for the Yellow Jacket protests in France was when these so called Yellow Jacket protests appeared elsewhere spouting some irrelevant crap in countries which didn't even experience the issues the Yellow Jack

      • by Powercntrl ( 458442 ) on Wednesday April 20, 2022 @04:58PM (#62463638) Homepage

        It's all there to get us punching down and fighting each other. You'd think after millennia of this trick being used on us we'd learn, but we never do.

        The technique works. Three damn threads about Netflix and each one is full of people arguing back and forth about how an on-demand streaming service is somehow too woke. It's a fucking streaming service where you choose what plays, if it's too woke the problem (to paraphrase the old "ID10T error") is located between the couch and the TV. It doesn't take three threads worth of bickering to figure that out.

        Meanwhile, I doubt this thread will get anywhere near the same amount of attention. A big company weaseling out of taxes is just business as usual. The average person is more concerned with the quality of their entertainment than the quality of their leadership.

      • It's so comforting to live in a world were billionaires and megacorps can use tax credits and financial juggling to avoid paying taxes. Good for them.
        When I experience losses, they don't carry over to the next year. The government takes almost half my income, automatically deducted from my paycheck, even more than I should be required to pay, and I have to set the world in motion to get back the part that was taken too much.

        If only all of us could afford the benefits of elite accountants.

        • It's so comforting to live in a world were billionaires and megacorps can use tax credits and financial juggling to avoid paying taxes. Good for them.

          When I experience losses, they don't carry over to the next year. The government takes almost half my income, automatically deducted from my paycheck, even more than I should be required to pay, and I have to set the world in motion to get back the part that was taken too much.

          You might look to (if in the US) incorporating yourself, I recommend the S-Corp se

      • Except for how corporate taxes have always been levied against profits, not revenue. Amazon didn't have to lobby to convince the EU to do things the way its member states already were, nor did they have to convince anyone to preserve the foundational principles of corporate taxation.

        But then you're also regurgitating another myth about a plan that worked to undo the Democratic Party's tradition of framing economic issues as racial.

    • I don't know why the parent was modded as troll...
      But basically Amazon is killing competition (working with a 2% or so loss rate below even its very low margins) but receiving a stipend to do that.

    • Tax is for the little people.
  • by etash ( 1907284 ) on Wednesday April 20, 2022 @04:10PM (#62463468)
    As per title...
    • You propose a simple solution to taxation while failing to consider that millions of accountants could lose their jobs.
    • As per title...

      Isn't VAT what does that? except it taxes the buyer, not the seller. At any rate, taxing a sales volume would just result in higher prices as teh tax is passed on, just like VAT.

      • by taustin ( 171655 )

        Is VAT paid by the buyer? Wasn't the case in Iceland. In the US, sales tax is paid by the retailer even if they don't collect it from the customer (that's why you see "no sales tax weekend" sales from time to time). Some states try to make the consumer pay sales (or use) tax on things bought out of state, but their options to enforce it are pretty limited.

        • Is VAT paid by the buyer? Wasn't the case in Iceland.

          Not sue about Iceland, but when I buy things in the EU and take them out I get a VAT refund, since it is baked into the price. Amazon UK, for example, shows prices inclusive of VAT and discounts it if shipped outside teh EU.

          In the US, sales tax is paid by the retailer even if they don't collect it from the customer (that's why you see "no sales tax weekend" sales from time to time). Some states try to make the consumer pay sales (or use) tax on things bought out of state, but their options to enforce it are pretty limited.

          True, retailers submit periodic sales numbers and remit the applicable tax, even if they didn't collect it. Tax free weekends can be, as you said, the seller paying the tax or in some cases states have a tax free weekend, though with limits on what qualifies. In that case, the seller

    • As per title...

      That's ridiculous. Did you skip business classes in school?

      I sell $1,00,000 worth of widgets for $1 each. The widget cost me $.50 cents each. My employees cost me the other $.50 cents. We broke even. But now I have to pay $88K in taxes on revenue that I made no profit on? Where is that money going to come from? My company would now be bankrupt. Stay in school bro.

    • by taustin ( 171655 )

      That's called a "sales tax," or in Europe, a "valued added tax," and they already pay that.

    • They already do. It is called the VAT, and it is on every single item that they sell.
  • Who gives a shit. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by RightSaidFred99 ( 874576 ) on Wednesday April 20, 2022 @04:40PM (#62463574)

    Corporate taxation is mostly a rabble-rousing scam topic anyway. Just tax the actual people who take in any profits, it's much easier than trying to play cat and mouse with corporate taxation. Ultimately that money goes to shareholders and employees - just tax them, increase capital gains taxes, etc..

    But it will never happen. Both the left and, to a lesser extent the right, get votes off provoking people with their tired "them corps didn't done pay no taxes!" nonsense.

    Same with the "muh billionaires don't done pay no taxes!" bullshit. What do the left wing dummies do? Why, we need a fucking wealth tax! Nevermind that it's unconstitutional in more ways than one and there are very simple solutions to the issue of e.g. buy, borrow, die like closing the readjustment of basis on death loophole, taxing capital gains and high income earners more, adding transaction taxes on stock sales, etc.. But no! That's too simple and might solve the problem, easier to string people along on bullshit promises and never solve the problem.

    • Ultimately that money goes to shareholders and employees

      You got 50% of that right.

    • So you support the Trump 1 Trillion Dollar tax cut for the rich? The 1 Trillion Dollar tax burden on the rest of us?

      More and more loopholes that only the rich can exploit? I don't think you understand the advantages the elites have... the system is heavily rigged against the middle class.

    • Re:Who gives a shit. (Score:4, Informative)

      by taustin ( 171655 ) on Wednesday April 20, 2022 @07:00PM (#62463898) Homepage Journal

      When corporate profits aren't taxed, they don't pay dividends. Instead, they spend their untaxed profits in ways that benefit the people who run the company, but don't count as pay.

      Instead of being an employee, you form a corporation that takes care of you, and that corporation contracts out your services to your employer. The corporation owns your car, your house, your food, your clothes, and pays you $1/year.

      There's historical precedent.

      You're not as clever as you imagine.

      • What dumbshittery. Like you can't fix those issues too, both via tax law and SEC oversight/taxholder lawsuits.
      • by Tom ( 822 )

        Instead of being an employee, you form a corporation that takes care of you, and that corporation contracts out your services to your employer. The corporation owns your car, your house, your food, your clothes, and pays you $1/year.

        I've actually thought about setting up a "my life Inc." corporation just to take advantage of corporate taxes being lower than personal income taxes.

        Has anyone ever done that and documented his experience and results?

    • by kubajz ( 964091 )
      It is an interesting idea but what you are suggesting can have som unintended consequences:
      • large companies that are private, e.g. Ikea, would pay no taxes in any of the countries where they operate, only in Skandinavia where their owners live?
      • same for other companies - if Spotify is mostly European owned, it would pay no taxes in America?
      • there are tons of ways of going around this restriction - e.g. taking a loan from the owners with very high interest; giving employment to owners; paying owners for "consu
    • by nagora ( 177841 ) on Thursday April 21, 2022 @05:31AM (#62464634)

      All your "solutions" are actually very complicated to implement.

      Just tax company income like we tax personal income - i.e., turnover. As long as you tax profit there will be millions of complications and loopholes.

      Or, alternatively, scrap all this stuff about companies being legal entities and make shareholders and directors legally responsible for their actions instead of hiding behind limited liability laws.

  • by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Wednesday April 20, 2022 @04:56PM (#62463634)

    Here in the U.S. there's always the middle class taxpayers [go.com] to make up any shortfall in tax revenue.

  • How can they stay alive when it is just cheaper to order anything from dozens of local online shops, which not only deliver cheaper, but also offer free pickup. While Amazon sends everything from warehouses in a different country, which makes a warranty process also hard.

  • by mveloso ( 325617 ) on Wednesday April 20, 2022 @05:30PM (#62463704)

    Isn't Amazon subject to VAT? In that case income tax is irrelevant; Europe got a chunk of that $55bn.

    Profit can be easily manipulated, which is why Europe went to VAT.

    • by kubajz ( 964091 )
      The customer pays the VAT but it is not entirely clear what part of the VAT is borne by the company and what par by the customer. Theory suggests that it is mostly borne by customers through companies setting higher prices to preserve their overall returns.
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      VAT is paid by the consumer.

  • so the "no tax" headline is misleading

    • CONSUMERS paid VAT, Amazon just collected it on their behalf. So the title is correct, Amazon paid no taxes, and was in fact a leech on society by collecting tax BREAKS.

      • by saider ( 177166 )

        What is the difference? If Amazon pays it, they just increase the cost to the consumer. The consumer ends up paying for ALL corporate taxes in the end. Who collects it is just a shell game.

      • That's true of all corporate taxes. ALL tax burdens on corporations are passed straight on to the customer.

    • by taustin ( 171655 )

      Fascist lefties who want to "redistribute" wealth - other people's wealth - do that.

  • by aerogems ( 339274 ) on Wednesday April 20, 2022 @05:48PM (#62463752)

    How is it a company can lose a billion dollars (or Euros in this case) and change year after year and still be able to stay in business? Something about that, if you'll pardon the pun, doesn't add up.

    • If you're growing and receiving ongoing investment, you can maintain that until the investors get sick of it.

      • If you're growing and receiving ongoing investment, you can maintain that until the investors get sick of it.

        Amazon is not in an investment growth phase. They haven't been for well over a decade.

    • Dutch sandwich [wikipedia.org], Double Irish [wikipedia.org], etc ...

      Basically the main selling subsidiary pays what it earns (and more) to an empty entity as "royalties for using the Amazon brand" so that it makes no profit or loses money. Then the empty company based in the Nederlands pays no taxes because of the way taxation works in the NL.

      Then you end up with countries like NL and Ireland sucking the money from the others in the EU and blocking any change because they have no interest in that of course.

      It is key to repeat over an

  • Government is taking from you to give to itself and its cronies.

    • Thankyou for posting that on your internet connection, made possible through infrastructure paid for by taxes.

  • See my subject.

    If a business doesn't make a profit, they pay no income as their income was (according to tax legislation) not positive so there is no income to tax.

    For individuals it's much harder for them as in most tax jurisdictions living expenses are not deductions.

    You live at a loss but had an income? Too bad, so sad, you (likely) pay income tax.

    And people are taxed on incomes, not profits.

    Maybe that should change?

    Though, if it does, a great many countries would collapse as their governments run out of

  • Taxes are NEVER paid by businesses - by definition.

    Taxes are just another expense on the accounting ledgers of any business, and that means they are part of the cost of producing and delivering any product or service to the customer - and thus, like the cost of labor or materials, are simply passed along to the customer as part of the price of the product or service. All your achieve when you tax a business is [a] your fool morons into thinking you stuck it to a fat cat businessman, [b] you drive inflatio

Where there's a will, there's an Inheritance Tax.

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