HP Recalls 6 Million Power Cables Over Fire Hazard 137
Via the Consumerist comes news that HP is recalling power cables after about 30 reports that they were melting from regular use. From the article:
Hewlett-Packard received 29 reports of the melting or charring power cords, two that included claims of minor burns and 13 claims of minor property damage.
The black power cords were distributed with HP and Compaq notebook and mini notebook computers and with AC adapter-powered accessories such as docking stations and have an "LS-15" molded mark on the AC adapter.
About 5.6 million power cords were sold in the United States, while 446,700 were sold in Canada from September 2010 to June 2012 at electronic stores and hp.com.
Not the PSUs? The actual cables? (Score:3, Interesting)
How do you fuck something like that up?
Re:Not the PSUs? The actual cables? (Score:5, Interesting)
Outsourcing.
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Outsourcing to the lowest bidder and then not adequately sampling items to verify they were made to spec.
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As long as money saved through outsourcing > cost of recall/lawsuits, HP wins.
They win?
Rather screwed-up mentality when and where the end result of faulty hardware is someone's life being taken.
Nothing new. Insurance companies prove it every single day. Life is but a numbers game.
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Life. Damned Life. And statistics.
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Exactly. Even if someone dies it doesn't matter as long as it doesn't hurt the bottom line.
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... and Americans "yanks". Again, nobody gets offended, but there's probably more reason to be offended by those terms than by "pakis".
Yes I'm offended by this. I'm an American, but I'm not a Yankee, thank you very much.
Re: Not the PSUs? The actual cables? (Score:1)
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It's the south's version of "Murica! #1!!" For every yokel who uses it in seriousness, there's thousands of people who say it as a joke. I can assure you it's not representative of the general attitude in the south anymore than the people yelling, "Merica, Fuck ya!" represent the entirety of the US population.
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I'm offended by this. I'm an American, but I'm not a Yankee, thank you very much.
OK Reb
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Mets fan?
Re: Not the PSUs? The actual cables? (Score:5, Informative)
Because, as far as I've ever heard it, it's only ever used as a pejorative term, and definitely not as an endearing shortening of the word.
I have never heard it as anything but derogatory.
It's offensive, because that's how it's used.
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Different people, different cultures. Maybe it's offensive for some (you) and not for others (australians) ?
It's offensive, because that's how it's used in some parts of the world.
would be a much more appropriate conslusion to your post.
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Oh, I don't know, how about we ask some Pakistanis how they feel about it instead of Australians?
Just because someone doesn't think their use of the term is offensive, it doesn't mean that it isn't.
The people who use the term about other people are the last people you ask if it is an offensive term.
Like the N-word, if you're not in the group, it's not a term you get to use and say "oh, it's just a word, it's not offensive".
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Oh right so now we need to segregate language based on how people react? That's ludicrous and would lead to us not being able to say anything at all.
I saw a comedian today while at a conference. The conference organisers said at the bar tonight that this is the first comedian they've employed in a long time since previously one person wrote a long winded letter that they were deeply offended by the previous one. I asked the comedian what he thought of it and he turned around around and said that he guarante
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My point, really. Why do you respond to my post as if you didn't agree?
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LOL ... go fuck yourself, asshole.
Oh, wait, was that an offensive term? My bad.
Re: Not the PSUs? The actual cables? (Score:4)
No, you're quite free to continue to be an asshole if it pleases you. I don't give a damn if you do. Just own it if you offend the wrong person.
I don't believe in the right to not be offended. I also don't believe that someone won't respond to you in a way you might not like.
The question was: why is it offensive? You'll note I said nothing at all about censorship.
Do you still screw your mother?
You seem to think yourself quite clever, I'm sorry to disappoint you.
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Oh so now you call me an arsehole just because of the way that I talk despite what I mean and my intentions? What next? All Aussies are arseholes because we shorten words?
And yes the connotation of deciding to place names on people who talk in a certain way regardless of meaning is just as much a form of prejudice as racism. I suppose you also pick on retards when they say something you don't like because they just don't know any better.
You sir are one hell of a self absorbed prick.
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Because, as far as I've ever heard it, it's only ever used as a pejorative term, and definitely not as an endearing shortening of the word.
Out of curiosity, have you ever heard Pakistan actually mentioned in conversation without it being a negative reference, anyway? The best thing I've ever heard said about the place is that they make cheap knives that will break easily and won't hold an edge. Maybe you've never heard it used any way other than negatively for a reason; maybe every time they were brought up, it was to make a complaint.
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Oddly enough, I've known many people from Pakistan over the years.
They're all nice, normal people, with jobs and families and lives. Not a single one has blown themselves up or anything.
Out of curiosity, have you ever heard America referenced in conversation without it being a negative reference? The best thing I've heard is they have lots of guns and shoot one another quite ofte
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Out of curiosity, have you ever heard America referenced in conversation without it being a negative reference?
Yes. It always amazes me, but it seems to actually be the norm. Of course, that's because I discount all the outright hypocritical standards. For instance, I'm not going to bag on Pakistan for terrorism, because the USA is terrorist in many ways, if not most. We just call it something else because we're the biggest bullies on the playground. So when someone from the UK gets on me for free speech or criminal law, I laugh a lot but I don't count it as credible.
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Have you ever spoken with someone outside the US? Or just in the echo chamber of "we're Murica, we're #1"?
That's OK, I'm not from the UK, and I don't you overly credible either.
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Oh, and since I never actually said anything about criminal law or free speech, as usual, I'll treat what you say as gibberish.
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Have you ever spoken with someone outside the US?
Are you really this stupid, or does it just switch on when you hit slashdot?
I don't you overly credible either.
Right back you.
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And, once again, Martin demonstrates his learned discourse and debating skills.
Are you really this much of an asshole, or is it just on Slashdot?
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And, once again, Martin demonstrates his learned discourse and debating skills.
You don't get to insult me and then bitch, piss and moan when I return the favor.
Are you really this much of an asshole, or is it just on Slashdot?
I usually only encounter people willing to act like as much of a lame as you have been in this conversation on slashdot, so it's pretty much just here.
not all bad... (Score:2)
They make some decent stainless steel woodworking rasps and other woodworking tools that require some hand-work.
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Yes 'Paki' is short for Pakistani, but 'Paki' is actually a racial slur against Indians and is commonly used in the UK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm0RqN_1VO8 (NSFW)
It's like calling an Aussie a Kiwi... if their countries were threatening nuclear launches against each other.
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Re: Not the PSUs? The actual cables? (Score:4, Interesting)
Pakistan, in at least one of the local languages, translates as Land of the (people called) Paks.
Afghanistan -> Afghans
Turkmenistan -> Turkmen
and so forth.
Paki is a derogation (and a diminutive, besides). Pak would be the proper term, but because of our Latinate collective-nouning habits, it sounds wrong.
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How is "Pakis" offensive? It is clearly an abbreviation of "Pakistanis",.
Its offensive because they are probably actually Indians. Like calling you a Kiwi. Apparently the pommy bastards ( a term of endearment) don't know the difference.
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"Pakis..." I suppose you must be from Great Britain, probably one of those "old school tie" types who think those savages should still be all under the Queen's boot.
Yes i'm from Great Britain, but what I think I that the colonials should be using 220-240V, not 110-120V. Since P=i^2*r and i is proportional to v, resistive power loss in the cable the cable would be cut to 1/4 of what it is today, greatly reducing the risk of excess heat in skinny power cables.
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Outsourcing.
Power cables are always outsourced.
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Outsourcing and quality control are separate things, unless you are convinced that things can only be built right in your country.
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Is true. Only great motherland can make correct power wires.
Glory to Arstotzka and its great Patriotic Wire and Cable Harness Factory #4!
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I bought some lamps and other electrical stuff from the big box stores and even from IKEA. The power cords on all these products appear to be manufactured by a plastic that loses its flexibility and dries out, peeling away from the copper conductors underneath.
The insulation is good for about 2 years before problems start. The problem is not due to flexing, but to some kind of soft disintegration plastic
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The cables pass quality checks, because maybe are lax, and then you have a low quality cable that will work most of the time. Sometimes doesn't work, in other word the last quality inspection is made unknowingly by the buyer...
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The cables pass quality checks, because maybe are lax
The root problem.
Nothing else you wrote matters if the quality checks are good.
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It wasn't that long ago a tons of standard power cables were discovered to be subpar. Grab your thinnest feeling one and cut it open.
I think I still have a cable that says "18 GA 15 amp" that contains at best 24 ga wire but looks even smaller. Probably ok on the cheap thing it came with, but they get swapped around a lot and hooking that to your laser printer is not so good.
I always found the ones with 3 strands like the pic to be the better ones (Dell usually)
Luckily my HP one has been replaced a friendly
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Probably junction resistance (cold solder) or corrosion (shitty base alloy or plating).
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My guess is induction at the 240/120 into the PSU end.
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USB transfers DC, and so shouldn't have any reactive current.
Re:Not the PSUs? The actual cables? (Score:5, Informative)
With the limited info I have I would guess either a cheapskate manufacturer that tried to pass the wrong gauge of cable as the correct one or a crappy connection between a plug and the cable.
In both cases the cable can't handle the current in a hot room and that could cause the insulation to melt. Especially when the cable is buried under a stack of nice insulating and flammable paper. Molten insulation doesn't stay in it's place, cables connect, short circuit and with the hot insulation (hot means more easily flammable) a flame is born.
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With the limited info I have I would guess either a cheapskate manufacturer that tried to pass the wrong gauge of cable as the correct one or a crappy connection between a plug and the cable.
I have one of these cables and after having analysed it, we (the guys on the forum and I :-)) think its more an issue of "dirty" plastics. If they get, e.g. carbon in the plastics used for injection molding the plug, it will conduct a small current, which will lead to heat, which will lead to charring, which will lead to more conduction, and you have a vicious circle going. So just to be clear, it's the "Mickey Mouse" plug that plugs in to the PSU that's faulty, not the PSU as such.
In my own case, the cable
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Not the PSUs? The actual cables? (Score:3)
All too easily it seems; my first MacBook Pro power lead caught fire a few years ago as well. This was the low-voltage (hence high current) end, though: in their quest to make everything thin and light, the cable was thin and flimsy, so one of the braided conductors frayed after a while. More current going down a thinner wire meant more heat - which softened the remaining copper and made the problem worse, until arcing started and I got a micro-firework display on my d
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No surprise there, Apple had a recall because the strain relief on the first generation magsafe plugs was insufficient.
Oddly, the first generation magsafe plug on my wife's old Macbook (which I've now inherited) is fine after around 4-5 years of use. Conversely the new style one (~2 years old) has already broken due to insufficient strain relief on the computer-end (I chopped open the cable, resoldered it and wrapped the whole thing in amaglam tape... no telling how long it'll last though).
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Made in China. Saving money is the key here, not quality and definitely not safety.
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sounds like cutting corners with narrower gage wire and possibly thinner insulation jacket as well.
i don't know the current draw of the devices in question, but if the wire gage is too thin it will get very hot.
another possibilty is the connection point between the wire and the connectors. it also needs to be of sufficient cross section to tranfer the full current load without overheating.
either way the answer is: cutting corners.
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Separate assemblies - the ones who do the power supply generally are very good at it (including the IEC plug the AC power goes into). The output end is typically just a header, and the cables are provided by a third party who specializes in making terminated cables. (Especially modern laptop cables which can have several conductors and indicators), with the only requirement that the power supply end use a mating connector.
Though, cases and other stuff are also often do
Interesting... (Score:2)
It's not just HP that uses the LS-15 style, Acer does too for their laptops. Incoming recall for 4-6 years worth of cables coming from Acer tomorrow then?
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It's not anymore of an internal identifier than molex is.
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It's not just HP that uses the LS-15 style, Acer does too for their laptops. Incoming recall for 4-6 years worth of cables coming from Acer tomorrow then?
Don't hold your breath - my experience of Acer is that they don't give a damn about their customers once they've got their money
Another nail in the coffin (Score:2)
HP = Horrible Product
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- Horse Poo
- Honestly Pants
- Hewlett-Pucktard
Buffer[9] = 'F';
whooooo!
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So, were you going for Hewlett-PFcktard, or is your array index off by one? Or, do you use one of "those" languages where arrays are indexed starting at 1?
No, its a c++ char array.
Starts with 0. When using 'Hewlett-Pucktard' as the buffers value, the 9th value is P.
Replace with F.
Buffer[9] = 'F';
http://www.byteauthority.com/c... [byteauthority.com]
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Yep, its Buffer[8].
That will teach me to use slashdot before i've had my morning coffee lol
20 failures from 6 million power cords? recall! (Score:2, Insightful)
I am actually impressed that 20 failures from 6 million power cords leads to a recall. Seriously, I love the fact that we have building techniques that a failure rate that low is _completely_ unacceptable :)
Humanity really does kick serious arse sometimes.
Re: 20 failures from 6 million power cords? recall (Score:5, Insightful)
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It is a hint that there might be actually thousands of faulty cables.
No, its not, unless you have more info about how representative those 20 are.
Generally the ones who have problems are the "vocal minority": that is, if you have problems, you are more likely to speak up, so if you're only seeing 20 / 13million, it could well indicate that the problem is quite limited.
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Again: Without more information, all of this is wild speculation.
The world needs more facts, not more guessing.
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I wouldn't call it wild speculation. I'd call that a likely scenario.
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Generally the ones who have problems are the "vocal minority": that is, if you have problems, you are more likely to speak up, so if you're only seeing 20 / 13million, it could well indicate that the problem is quite limited.
Sure, I'm one of those. I raised hell, on a Swedish electrical/electronics forum... Didn't even bother to call HP. I assumed it was a one off, and what are they going to do anyway? Tell me to send the cable to them? (That's too much of a hassle) and give me a new one? (I could just grab a new one from one of the conveniently situated piles at work).
In fact, the usual rule, born out by science, when it comes to customer satisfaction here in Sweden (originally talking about large enterprises like TV/Radio) is
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No more details are known. Just that some cables catched fire. Maybe they examined one of the returned ones and found out that they were not manufactured to spec or maybe the contractor reduced safety margins to a point where they become potentially dangerous. I don't think any company wants to be responsible in case someone dies.
Better to collect all the cables before more bad publicity gets generated.
Plus (other comment) most just throw away a cable if it smells funny so actualy numbers are sort of a gray
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the actual number could be much higher, but go undetected because the user isn't drawing enough current to expose the flaw. or maybe the user just says "damn, what a cruddy power cord" and just grabs another out of his collection.
exploitation of cheap labor fruits (Score:1)
...poisonous plastics, sub par materials and thus products. i can't blame them really. it's not the workers who really profit from outsourcing all of our production.
Same folks who made my LED flashlight? (Score:1, Offtopic)
A little 8-white-LED key chain flashlight, it's cheap and what a miracle it is. Anyone old enough to remember strapping on 2 lb lantern batteries for a couple of hours' light knows. Really bright, runs cool with and extremely low current draw. All Glory to the Human Race. And Hypnotoad.
1. flickered on the first day when I tapped it against something. Probably shelf life corrosion patina, took out batteries, cleaned them, ok.
2. flickering again. spring on screw end not made of spring steel, weak. stretched o
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9. flickering again. this time it is my campfire. A rhinoceros appears and stamps the fire out.
10. It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
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What's up with HP URLs? (Score:2)
I've been noticing this for several years now ... what the hell is up with URLs at HP?
It's like they've designed their website so nobody could ever actually find anything.
I mean "http://h30434.www3.hp.com/" is one of the most strangely formed URLs I've seen, what is it, the virtual host or something?
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I would say, there are probably loadbalancers/web redirectors, which redirect you with to one server which you will contact during that whole session. So your session will be kept on the same server and they don't need to use anycast or sync. Just a guess though...
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I've been noticing this for several years now ... what the hell is up with URLs at HP?
It's like they've designed their website so nobody could ever actually find anything.
I mean "http://h30434.www3.hp.com/" is one of the most strangely formed URLs I've seen, what is it, the virtual host or something?
I was under the impression that most commercial websites were intentionally designed so no one could actually find anything... At least, that's the only explanation I can find...
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HP URLs appear to be by-department. Whether this actually represents the structure of HP's web servers or is only a logical arrangement is another question
I use the word "logical" loosely here
HPSupport transferred me to a car dealership in NY (Score:5, Funny)
So if I did the math correctly (Score:1)
These are 6 million ways to die?
shipping (Score:1)
From cpsc.gov:
Customers should immediately stop using and unplug the recalled power cords and contact Hewlett-Packard to order a free replacement. Consumers can continue to use the computer on battery power.
I must say that I am very impressed by the fast shipping!
orly? (Score:1)
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Remind me NOT to send anything to you for repair.
29 cords out of 6 million (Score:1)
Seems a tad hysterical.
down the tubes (Score:1)
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Really, people who buy HP are worse than people who pay for porn. They're a shitty, outsourcing, cost-cutting, printer cartridge filling shell of an engineering company. If you think anything they build is good, legacy products excepted, it's because you're too stupid to see what's wrong with it.
Please tell us what is the good brand then.
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Really, people who buy HP are worse than people who pay for porn. They're a shitty, outsourcing, cost-cutting, printer cartridge filling shell of an engineering company. If you think anything they build is good, legacy products excepted, it's because you're too stupid to see what's wrong with it.
Please tell us what is the good brand then.
X-Art.
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HP's probook line is OK, other than that:
* Samsung
* Asus
* Lenovo
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I'm sure we'd all love to know ... but the quality of the HP consumer products has been in decline for years now.
Their printers used to be absolutely awesome, now I rank them as right around the cheap Kodak printers you buy.
They're simply not a go-to brand any more.
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I have to disagree.
Sure, their cheap products are exactly as you described, but their higher end products are pretty decent. My HP Envy laptop is wonderful and great value for the price.
You get what you pay for, but generally that's true for any company, so no need to single out HP.
I agree, I work with all the major laptop brands, there is much more of a quality range within each brand than there is between brands overall. Each brand has low end crap that is junk. Each has way overpriced expensive laptops that are going for looks over function, or have three folding out touchscreens, which all end up having so many stupid features in the lightest possible setup so they end up breaking.