Europe Sticks a Knife Into Vegan Meat (wsj.com) 503
The European Union is trying to put vegetables back in their box. From a report: The trading bloc's agriculture committee wants to ban vegan food products from using terms such as burger and sausage on their labels. The logic is that consumers expect their burgers to be made of pork or beef and will be duped by plant-based pretenders. More likely the region's livestock industry smells danger. Meat-alternative products made by companies like Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods appeal to a growing number of consumers that want to cut down on meat. A high-profile report from the EAT-Lancet Commission warned that red-meat consumption needs to halve by 2050 to avoid serious health and environmental problems. Whether or not consumers are fooled, vegan brands have found success in giving a meaty flavor to their marketing.
Burger-Shaped should work (Score:4, Insightful)
I would consider a "burger" to be beef.
Impossible Burger is somewhere in the middle regarding naming (using Impossible is interesting, edge case).
Re:Burger-Shaped should work (Score:5, Funny)
mmmm.... vegan discs!
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These products should be sold to the diet market, not the vegan market. Consumers are interested in products that have the taste and mouthfeel of meat without the fat and calories. The environmental advantages are also a selling point: the satisfaction of meat without the Paul Bunyan footprint of cattle farming.
But sell anything to vegans, but because veganism is a jihadist faith rather than a diet, you run the risk that some activist splinter will find a moral objection to your product and angrily demand t
Re: Burger-Shaped should work (Score:4, Insightful)
These products should be sold to the diet market, not the vegan market. Consumers are interested in products that have the taste and mouthfeel of meat without the fat and calories.
Although the diet market is a lot larger than the vegan market, vegan meat doesnâ(TM)t make much sense for the diet market. Protein is pretty low calorie compared to the usually high carb fake vegan meats. Now if you mean the health market then vegan meats probably do have a place. The health market is also larger than the vegan market and vegetable based meats are arguably healthier but the health market and the diet market although they obviously overlap are not the same.
Re: Burger-Shaped should work (Score:4, Informative)
No way Australia has 2 million vegans - that would be 10% of the population.
You cant claim that based on this:
"A 2000 Newspoll survey (commissioned by Sanitarium) shows 44% of Australians report eating at least one meat-free evening meal a week, while 18% said they prefer plant-based meals."
Re:Burger-Shaped should work (Score:5, Insightful)
If you consider "burger" to be beef, but we also allow "chicken burger" to indicate that the burger is made of chicken instead of beef, then why can't we have "veggie burger" or "vegan burger" to indicate the burger is made from vegetables instead of beef?
If they want to have a vegetarian burger and not call it such, simply labeling the packaging as "burger", then sure, that's misleading advertising. But nobody is going to see "veggie burger" and think it's made of beef.
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It's a false etymology anyway. It's not ham (the meat) + burger (a disc shaped thing), it comes from Hamburg (the German city).
Re:Burger-Shaped should work (Score:5, Informative)
BURGER
/brr/
noun
short for hamburger.
a particular variation of a hamburger with additional or substitute ingredients.
"a veggie burger"
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I like your signature!
Re:Burger-Shaped should work (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Burger-Shaped should work (Score:5, Interesting)
If they want to have a vegetarian burger and not call it such, simply labeling the packaging as "burger", then sure, that's misleading advertising. But nobody is going to see "veggie burger" and think it's made of beef.
Exactly. The terms "veggie burger" and "veggie sausage" have been in widespread use in the UK for decades.
Stick with Veggie Burger and disallow the others (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly. The terms "veggie burger" and "veggie sausage" have been in widespread use in the UK for decades.
Yes, but the new marketing names are something Orwell would be proud of. "Beyond" burger, as though it's "improved" meat, whereas it is "replaced" meat. Whether that's an improvement or not depends on whether you're an irritating, self-righteous Vegan who makes cyclists self-righteously ignoring traffic regulations and then blaming their victims look positively polite, or an in-your-face reactionary c
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"up to" is actually quite descriptive... It's rare you will ever get the full throughput capacity of any given network link for all manner of reasons including the protocols in use, what your communicating with at the other end, latency, load (of all devices along the route), cable or signal quality, etc...
Even a local ethernet connection is "up to".
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Re:Burger-Shaped should work (Score:5, Funny)
Man, such a problematic viewpoint. if a vegetable identifies as 'meat' who are you to say otherwise?
It's 2019, get with the times!
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Man, such a problematic viewpoint. if a vegetable identifies as 'meat' who are you to say otherwise?
Biological kingdomhood is a social construct.
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Real risk: 80% beef, 20% soy filler (Score:2)
At my local burger places, about 50% of the menu items are beef and the other 50% are others: chicken, a black been burger, etc. So I wouldn' think that "burger" requires beef. Things should be labeled honestly, of course.
I don't think there is significant risk of consumers being fooled thinking a chicken burger or a Morningstar burger is beef. Where I see the potential for confusion would be something labeled beef that has 20% soy filler or something like that. That needs to be clearly labeled. We see thi
I put the small tags on the wrong word (Score:2)
That should be:
CHOCOLATE [small]flavored[/small] CANDY.
Using find print to try to trick people isn't fair.
Selling a chicken burger or a black bean burger is perfectly fair.
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Veggie Burger is pretty clear. But Impossible Burger already much less so. More practically: our supermarket here sells "Hamburgers" and "Angus Burgers", but also "Texas Burgers", "Smokey Burgers", etc. All kinds of variations with their own name, all assumed to be beef.
What would be the vegan alternatives to those? "Texas Veggie Burgers"? "Vegan Smokey Burgers"? Those names don't sound very catchy. Their creators would probably prefer simpler names, names which omit veggie/vegan for the sake of complicity.
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Simplicity, not complicity.
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How many vegans does it take to eat a hamburger?
Just one, so long as nobody is looking.
Re:Burger-Shaped should work (Score:5, Informative)
I believe the generic term for the flat shape is patty.
Hamburger patty. Rice patty. Sausage patty. Quinoa patty.
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Re:Burger-Shaped should work (Score:5, Funny)
You may be thinking paddy
Q: Why did God invent whiskey?
A: So the Irish would never rule the world.
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I think the term would be beef patty since both animal sexes are slaughtered for meat.
And come to think of it, beef patty is already relatively commonly used.
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Impossible Burger is somewhere in the middle regarding naming
Nope. I was fooled by this at Red Robin. I expected a burger so big that it's impossible to eat. Instead I got vegan bullshit that went straight into the trash.
Pure consumer deception. That's what it is.
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Impossible Burger is somewhere in the middle regarding naming
Nope. I was fooled by this at Red Robin. I expected a burger so big that it's impossible to eat. Instead I got vegan bullshit that went straight into the trash.
If it went straight into the trash, then I guess it was impossible to eat. You got what you expected.
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Shamburger
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I would consider a "burger" to be beef.
The term "veggieburger" has been used casually now for too many decades for that argument to stick.
What about Turkey Burgers (Score:2)
Beyond that the phrase itself comes from a town [wikipedia.org] rather than the specific contents.
Reminds me of how you can't call an artificial diamond a diamond even though it's a diamond. This is actually worse. I've never once seen anyone say you could buy a veggie burger and not know it wasn't beef.
Re:What about Turkey Burgers (Score:4, Insightful)
I think the EU's point is that you have to call it a "veggie burger" and not just a "burger", because people assume the latter is beef. Since "impossible burger" isn't obviously not beef, I see their point: intentionally or not it's deceptive.
Look... (Score:5, Funny)
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What a time to run out of mod points.
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If a food wants to identify as a meat, it's a meat. Not all meats are animals you know; just because they were assigned 'plant' at harvest by some farmer doesn't change what they are. Food groups are a social construct, and forcing labels on them is more oppression by the edesiarchy. We need to embrace transfoods.
You sir, win the internet today.
If a boy can "be" a girl, I think a veggie burger can be a burger.
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Turn it around the the analogy is actually a pretty good explanation of gender as a social construct.
A veggie burger is a burger inasmuch as it fills the role of a burger. It's not the being made out of meat that makes it suitable for that role, so things not made of meat can still fill that role and so still be a burger.
Likewise, a transwoman is a woman inasmuch as she fills the role of a woman. It's not the chromosomes or whatever that make her suitable for that role, so people with different chromosomes
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I only eat animals that identify as cactuses. This allows me to be not only vegan, but one with a very minimal environmental footprint.
LOTS of fear (Score:5, Insightful)
What this really exposes is that those who raise cows/pigs are terrified of the new wave of products that could largely displace them from the food market. This is a last ditch effort to dissuade prospective buyers.
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Total BS. No one really thinks these new products are going to replace beef. Total hype.
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WTF?
The US is a net exporter of soybeans, we do not buy soybeans from anybody
We do buy tons of beef from Brazil, where they are actively deforesting the Amazon to raise more cattle
Are you from backwards-land, or did you forget to use the sarcasm tag?
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>The US is a net exporter of soybeans, we do not buy soybeans from anybody
Increasing demand anywhere offsets increased production, regardless of where it is.
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I wish I could mod this up!
People won't be confused (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple Butter
Peanut Butter
Coconut Milk
Almost Milk
Cashew Cheese
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I don't have a problem with the removal of the use of terms like, "butter," "milk," and, "cheese," from products that don't involve animal sources.
I'll get over it if it's now apple-spread, peanut-spread, cocanut juice, almond juice, and cashew paste.
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The point is that it doesn't confuse people.
Re:People won't be confused (Score:4, Funny)
What if all this time people thought their apple butter came from churned apple milk, produced by real Apple Cows?
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Here's the thing.
Neither in Limburg nor in Rhineland it is called "apple butter". The German word for it is Apfelkraut, the Dutch word is appelstroop. Definitely not butter, that is a purely English thing.
Re:People won't be confused (Score:5, Insightful)
I read the ingredients of a carton of half-and-half. "Ingredients: milk. WARNING: contains milk."
Well, I certainly hope so. Thanks for clearing that up.
I think we can now conclude that food package labeling has left the "trying to be useful" realm and is firmly in the "hapless pawn of larger legal and business battles" camp.
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They're not confused because the EU already doesn't allow most of the names you list there: https://www.bbc.com/news/busin... [bbc.com]
Finally some common sense (Score:2, Insightful)
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Misled? (Score:5, Insightful)
Show of hands: who thinks anyone that purchases a "veggie burger" or "garden burger" is in any way misled to believe that they are purchasing the flesh of an animal?
Conversely, if someone walks into a market, or restaurant, and requests a "burger" - how likely are they to end up with a non-meat product?
In other words, is anyone actually being deceived, misled, or otherwise scammed here?
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Show of hands: who thinks anyone that purchases a "veggie burger" or "garden burger" is in any way misled to believe that they are purchasing the flesh of an animal?
Conversely, if someone walks into a market, or restaurant, and requests a "burger" - how likely are they to end up with a non-meat product?
In other words, is anyone actually being deceived, misled, or otherwise scammed here?
Nope, nobody.
This is just regulatory capture. It's like having to call wrapped cheese slices "pasteurize process cheese food".
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if it was not to misled why the similarity pack? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Because it tastes a lot like a burger, of course you call it a burger. Hell, even when it doesn't taste like a burger, but is meant to be used like one (like a veggie burger, which has been in common use for decades), you'd still call it a burger.
Is lentil spaghetti not spaghetti? It cooks like spaghetti, tastes like spaghetti, you use it in the same dishes as spaghetti, of course it's spaghetti. Just because it isn't made from wheat doesn't mean the name is inappropriate.
Same thing with these new meaty veg
Beyond meat... (Score:2)
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I just wish that more vegans would stop trying to bring bad copies of meat-dishes to events when there are entire cultures that don't consume meat and have delicious non-meat food. I'm thinking of a lot of South Asian cooking in particular.
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Mediterranean too
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This, but unironically. Being vegan is counter to our biology. To deny that we are omnivores biologically speaking is to deny science.
Yeah. What's next, that they'll think they can be a different gender or something?
Hype (Score:2)
More hype for the Beyond Meat IPO. It will be bankrupt in 3 years.
duped by plant-based pretenders (Score:2)
Vegan Meat? (Score:2)
Europe Sticks a Knife Into Vegan Meat
Why the hell do vegans need imitation meat products when their entire philosophy revolves around eliminating all animal derived products from their diet? It's like a bunch of cyclists who cycle around in foot pedal powered cars or something, as if they can't make up their minds. If you're going to be a Vegan go the whole nine yards and stop pissing about with imitation meat products.
Hamburger (Score:2)
Should only be made of ham. No bread, no beef, no ketchup. Only ham.
Lizard Burger (Score:3)
"You want scales with that?"
Do they not have adjectives in Europe? (Score:2)
"The logic is that consumers expect their burgers to be made of pork or beef and will be duped by plant-based pretenders"
Do they not have adjectives in Europe, are adjectives banned from menus? For example, in the USA when I ordered a "black bean burger" from the menu I expected no beef nor pork at all. AII I expected were black beans. The burger met my exception, and was tasty. Not surprising since I like black beans.
Now if we have "burger" with no adjectives on the menu, sure, I can see how an EU bureaucrat is concerned and must act swiftly and surely to "protect the public", as is their goal in life.
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"The logic is that consumers expect their burgers to be made of pork or beef and will be duped by plant-based pretenders"
Do they not have adjectives in Europe, are adjectives banned from menus?
It's more of an avaialble space on menus. In Germany, it would be callled a "nichtmadenvondasbeefproductionsaondervonvegtablegemacht burger" France has it easier, it's simply a Merde Burger. The UK will call it whatever they please, thank you, we don't need no EU rules here in the empire.
Different countries and languages are different (Score:3)
Discussing this in English is a bit moot, considering that these rules would not even be enforced in English after Brexit.
Each country has its own language and traditions concerning how the translation for "burger" and "hamburger" is being used, and I think that instead of the EU deciding, the people in each country should decide for themselves how they should use their own words, through their own authorities.
Over here in Sweden, a "Hamburger" (translated) is 100% beef and nothing else.
Meanwhile, a "Burger" can be anything but is usually preceded with a word: e.g. "chicken burger".
Vegetarian burgers are usually labelled with "Vegetarian", "Ovo-vegetarian" or "Vegan" anyway so that vegetarians/vegans can be sure of what they get.
Meanwhile, we also have "Hamburger Meat" (translated), which is smoked horse meat -- with etymological origin older than the American hamburger.
I see no problem with this scheme at all. Anyone from outside trying to impose their idea different scheme on us should eff off!
Read the label (Score:2)
Glad (?) to see our European cousins choosing the Corporate American led path of lazy, foolishness, victimization. How about reading the actual ingredients. Too lazy to read the label, sorry but ' you get you what get and you don't get upset'.
For myself, I want accurate food labeling so I can make my own decision. In addition to standard nutrition info, I want to see organic, GMO, antibiotics used, wild/farmed, allergy info, and country of origin (sorry China). I know that organic isn't healthier, but
What about mince-meat pies? (Score:3)
Mince-meat pies are made from fruit and don't have any "animal meat" in them at all. They're a Christmas tradition in the UK.
Well, I guess after Brexit, this won't matter much anyway...
A.
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Common sense (Score:2)
Vegan meat isn't meat, advertising it as such is inherently fraudulent. I'm not opposed to selling vegetarian food (my wife is a vegetarian), but there's no reason to be deceptive about it.
Ordered a "zoo-burger" once that was represented as a hamburger. I threw up on the spot right in the middle of the cafeteria after eating a single bite. The clerk actually had the audacity to claim that lying to me about the food was okay since it was vegan. I raised a fuss as they refused to even refund my money. I got t
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Vegan meat isn't meat
What if it's made from nuts?
Please, if you think about it (Score:2)
Think about it. Even if it is 100 percent beef advertised. That beef has been drugged up to produce fatter cows that allows for more meet to be butchered.
And yes, I eat the crap and love it. Also have had some really good veggie burgers, but nothing I go out of my way for.
Solution. Make you
Vegan meat (Score:3)
Made from real vegans? Or is there some soy filler in there?
Fortunately, Britain will not be going along with this nonsense. Because knives are illegal.
I liked adjectival prefix notation (Score:2)
The logic is that consumers expect their burgers to be made of pork or beef and will be duped by plant-based pretenders.
Prefixing "burger or "sausage" with "vegan" tells me that it's not meat.
sweetbread, head cheese? (Score:5, Insightful)
Seems hypocritical, considering the meat industry gave us terms like sweetbread and head cheese.
Who cares (Score:2)
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Why wait and post about it on Slashdot?
Get started with yourself right now! Oh, that's right... you don't even 'actually' believe in the trash you are peddling.
But, do humanity a favor first, and if you decide to follow your own logic at least commit suicide by trying to help save someone that does not want people to die from a thug on the street or a bad police officer like a hero. Something tells me that the best you are ever going to be is the part that ran down the crack of your mothers ass.
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He meant "other" people. He is a tech guy, very valuable. He makes six figures programming websites.
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Get started with yourself right now!
One person isn't going to make a difference, especially not if that's a person willing to make sacrifices. It only takes 2 seconds for a new baby to take their place.
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It's not the result, it's the principle of the matter.
Do not spew garbage you are not willing to do your very self. That is my rule.
If you are not leading by example, clap your pie hole shut and let someone else do the talking!
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Since you've not understood, I'll spell it out. A controlled reduction is also known as "birth control." China has led the way and demonstrated how easy it is.
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yea, we are all aware of the "forced abortion/birth control" that China used. It's no secret and that is the problem.
Any human population control that can be effective requires state sanctioned death squads deciding what gets killed somewhere somehow. You can dress it up all you like but the shit stain on your face for this is still there!
The only response for you is, YOU FIRST!
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I guess you've chosen war then. And your preferred approach is genocide, right?
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You flippant moron.
As long as YOU are the one saying "someone has to die or else" then the one asking for war is you!
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Really? I'm not the one screaming hate down the lines.
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Since you've not understood, I'll spell it out. A controlled reduction is also known as "birth control." China has led the way and demonstrated how easy it is.
If China is your guiding principle for an ethical example to follow then you know you've made some wrong turns. Enjoy where that takes you and may your social credit score never fall too low.
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There is no shortage of unethical behaviours by all governments.
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OK, you first.
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I really did mean reduce populations, not just stop growth. Even first-world populations are too high.
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I really did mean reduce populations, not just stop growth. Even first-world populations are too high.
You're in luck, they are declining. Now if they can just secure their borders then they will find a (happier) medium.
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A salad is a mixed amalgamation of foodstuffs.
Fruit salad is a salad of mixed fruit. Potato salad is an amalgamation of potatoes and other products with some kind of loose binding agent.
At one point salads suspended in animal gelatin were popular.
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No, but I'd like it if someone legally enforced that "salad" had to have, say, at least three (preferably five) ingredients. Some salads are just lettuce, and that's not salad.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” Mark Twain.
Thanks for providing an excellent illustration.
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If you carve meat out of vegans, it *is* vegan meat.
Vegans tend to be very careful about the quality of food that they eat.
That's why I prefer to eat Soylent Green made out of vegans.
Yummy . . . Soylent Green from "Free Range" vegans!