Why Online Returns Are a Hassle Now (theatlantic.com) 80
U.S. retailers are cracking down on free returns as costs spiral out of control, The Atlantic reports. Return rates have more than doubled since 2019, with shoppers expected to send back nearly $900 billion in merchandise this year.
Major chains like REI and JCPenney are now charging fees or requiring in-store drop-offs, abandoning years of customer-friendly policies. With each $100 return costing stores up to $30 to process, some retailers have given up entirely -- telling customers to keep cheap items rather than send them back.
Major chains like REI and JCPenney are now charging fees or requiring in-store drop-offs, abandoning years of customer-friendly policies. With each $100 return costing stores up to $30 to process, some retailers have given up entirely -- telling customers to keep cheap items rather than send them back.
great (Score:2)
If they want people to go back to B&M retail this is the way to make it happen.
Maybe they could... (Score:2, Interesting)
advertise honestly?
And improve quality control?
You know, reduce the reasons why people return things so much.
Re:Maybe they could... (Score:5, Insightful)
Certain people are buying dozens of pieces at a time and using the e-commerce returns system as a virtual dressing room.
The mindset of the people who do this can't be fixed. Firing them as a customer is the best policy.
As an e-commerce seller in the electronics segment, I see these chronic returners in the UPS store all the time.
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Re:Maybe they could... (Score:4, Interesting)
Eh, not really
The problem is threefold:
1) People abuse the 'free return' system, as they always have. See Costco, Walmart.
2) Companies import low quality items and sell them at high markups and see the "Cost of doing business" exceeding the profit gained from selling the crap products.
3) Customer service isn't allowed to care.
Fixing the abuse from free returns is simple, only allow unopened items to be returned to the physical store. Opened items can only be returned if defective, and must be investigated at the store. But what if there is no store to return to (Eg amazon)? Then the retailer can't refund the customer, and must be willing to take a bath and let customers keep items under $50, but mark their account how many times they've done this. If they refund more than $300 a year while purchasing less than $300 worth of goods overall, then that customer is a net loss, and they lose the free return and free shipping features.
Fixing the "selling crap at high markup" is a bit harder to solve since it would require actually sourcing products that are of high quality to begin with, and items like clothing are just generally not high quality and haven't been high quality for 80 years. There are no companies in North America that are still in business that make their own cotton fabric, let alone clothing items.
Fixing "Customer service isn't allowed to care" is pretty simple. Pay them more. Stores like Costco and Walmart have zero-question policies and accept everything back, without even inspecting it. I worked for one retailer one year, and bloody customer service accepted back a Christmas Tree from the PREVIOUS year, and then broke the compactor trying to dispose of it.
Because that is what happens to items you return, straight to the landfill.
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Fixing "Customer service isn't allowed to care" is pretty simple. Pay them more. Stores like Costco and Walmart have zero-question policies and accept everything back, without even inspecting it.
I was with you up to here...
Paying the CS staff more does not change the policy. If the policy remains "take it back, no questions asked -just move them thru quickly" then that is what the staff will do.
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Fixing the abuse from free returns is simple, only allow unopened items to be returned to the physical store. Opened items can only be returned if defective, and must be investigated at the store.
You've just destroyed the online shopping industries for entire business sectors (e.g. Fashion). I do agree with a requirement to return in store though, if a store is available.
I do like your idea about tracking chronic returns, but that only works if you are Amazon, and doesn't work for the millions of e-commerce sites out there. Additionally it is heavily skewed against poor people. Someone is far more likely to return a $10 phone charger, than a first party Apple product, because it's far more likely to
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Include more than a single sentence "description", listing measured dimensions and power requirements (for things other than clothes). Honestly, the online sellers seem to go out of their way to produce mountains of allegedly descriptive text, while avoiding accurate measurements and the details that really matter to a prospective buyer (is this the one with a solder or the one with a threaded connection...etc)
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That would actually be a good thing. Most of the time when you return something to Amazon, they just chuck it in a landfill. Their logistics chain isn't really setup to work in reverse. They only bother restocking small, expensive items. When you return something to the store, especially if it is unopnened nor not used, it goes back on the shelf.
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Nope, everything sold in a store that is not a luxury or electronics store, goes straight to the landfill. It is unsanitary to put clothing (Especially underwear and socks) back out to sell, and nobody is going to take that stuff home to wash it and return it, because once it's washed, it can't be sold either (since the protective poisons coating the fabric to keep it from being eaten by pests/mold during shipping will be lost.)
Electronics and appliances are put back on the shelf after being repackaged, and
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Clothing gets resold by the pound on the international market. About a bowshot (being an American, I will do anything to avoid use of the metric system) from one of the border crossings (a bridge across a gorge) between Panama and Costa Rica, on the Panamanian side, there is a warehouse where those bundles get picked apart and then distributed to a variety of outlets of literally every description in every part of the country and then sold at a tiny fraction of their original retail price, and you can buy t
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"just for funsies I bought a $300 hip-hop shirt that makes me look like a drunken generalissimo's white cousin for about $20 in the basement of a department store in Panama City."
This may be the greatest line I have ever seen on Slashdot.
I don't always agree with your posts, but thank you for everything that you do!
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You can also thank Beer(tm) for that one. I had just polished off a Sierra Juicy IPA.
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Multiple Sizes (Score:2)
If anyone is always one size from every clothing-ish retailer, congrats! The money they save on brick-and-mortar is being applied to me ordering 3 pairs of pants, and returning 2. If I have to take it into the store, that is generally fine with me. It is a chore either way.
Man, bites hand that feeds them. (Score:2)
From the "this is why we can't have nice things" department. What did people think was going to happen making things too easy with minimal consequences.
I do not get that (Score:2)
Clothes, ok, for sizes and basically pre-agreed, but anything else? If you do not want it, just do not buy it. Well, eventually, sellers may just price than in for regular returners.
I guess a lot of people just take without thinking about consequences at all. Like the people that rush the ATMs when limits are broken due to IT issues and the like.
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It's not that they don't want it, but more they thought it would look good in this situation, but when they received it found out it's not what they thought it would be, or didn't look right in the spot they intended, or whatever. It's also possible the thing doesn't work. Or maybe the color wasn't as advertised. Maybe they received the wrong item. Maybe they received the correct item in the wrong color.
There are a multitude of reasons people return thi
Re:I do not get that (Score:4, Interesting)
I bought a 3D printer from Amazon once, spent $800 on it. I got a box filled with obviously used parts and no packing material. This was entirely on Amazon and their policy of being a storefront for 3rd parties, not the fact that I wanted a 3D printer.
You better believe I made them take it back, at their cost. Maybe be less of a corporate shill and realize the customer wanting their actual advertised product delivered undamaged is not unreasonable. The corporation should have insurance covering their sales in case of a return if it's so problematic.
Re:I do not get that (Score:5, Interesting)
I have ordered stuff thru amazon and had it arrive with missing parts, etc too. I have ordered stuff "Filled by Amazon" and been sent the wrong product or a different color than I ordered, etc.
One thing I can say is they have always and immediately generated a return, and either cross shipped a replacement or simply told me to bin the defective/incorrect item or otherwise do what I want with it. Usually with very few questions asked. It gives me a lot of confidence shopping with them. It is one of the reasons I'll often pay more for something on Amazon than some other e-tailer etc. Knowing for certain if there is a problem it won't be 'my' problem is a big draw.
That said the reason I have so much experience with it is because I buy a lot stuff from them/thru them. 99% there is no problem. I don't buy stuff I don't intent to keep, provided it is as shown/described. I know other people do play games and it sucks because they will ruin it for the rest of us.
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And obviously, if you get an item that is defective, incomplete, used when advertised as new, etc., returning it is what you do. You have a legal right to do so, regardless of what the seller states. And hence Amazon is not giving you any trouble on these items.
But my take is that this is not the issue the story is about and your behavior is entirely fine.
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But my take is that this is not the issue the story is about
On what grounds? The article only mentioned returns, and this would absolutely include returns on legitimate grounds like defects, not matching description and so on...
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Is this a serious question?
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Yes. Because so far, you took the summary, added a "I don't think what's the story about" and went on commenting on what you think the story is.
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Well. You do understand that intentionally refusing legitimate returns or making it hard to do them is fraud, right? Or maybe you do not understand that. Would not surprise me. So far you have displayed zero insight into matters.
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My son once got a $300 office chair delivered to him within a week of moving into a new place. With his name on the mailing label and nothing in his Amazon purchase record. Amazon was no help, they could not issue him a return for something he never purchased.
He held onto it for a few weeks, then ordered a random $10 item from Amazon and filed a return. Stuck the return label on the chair and dropped it at UPS. Never heard anything more about it.
Oh, did I mention...this was in Hawaii? Shipping charges must
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That is not the regular case. I have returned things as "defective" or "incomplete" as well. That is different.
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I think its more like contempt or callousness.
If they could somehow find a way to parasitize your bank account they'd be all over it like ants on aphids. Charging someone without delivering anything of value is their wet dream.
To me some of these businesses are borderline thieves. They can easily get away with it for now, but I'm not so certain it will remain easy for the long term.
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Customer service has been dead for awhile. All that matters is maximizing profits to boost share holder value.
While I agree that maximizing profits is certainly a huge part of the sad death of customer service, it's also partly the consumers fault as well. People want the cheapest price too. By cutting/killing customer service retailers also can cut prices.
Anytime I find a business that has an actual human answer the phone, I'm willing to pay more. If they have helpful knowledgeable staff I'll be a loyal.customer. Unfortunately, I'm in the minority.
Buy from retail stores? (Score:3)
Maybe it is time to start buying from retail stores again? I do this for clothes, so I know what comes home with me at least has a good chance of fitting. The more people use stores, the more stores pop up that might have cool things.
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I do know a lot of people are hard pressed to find good retail stores, especially where I live, where one had to go to an outlying town just to find a place with parking, but if people shift their money to retail from mail order, it would be a benefit for all involved. So, maybe it might be good that mail order places are tightening up return policies.
I'm in the same boat. If I can find something at a local store, I buy it, but if they don't have it, I'll just order it mail order, as opposed to having the
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For me, the most aggravating part about brick and mortar shopping is the "oh, sorry, that size is out of stock, and we don't know when we'll be getting more" problem.
It's also the huge advantage of ordering online...the stuff is always there, and the shipping is roughly equivalent to the wasted time I spend, driving or calling around to find something at a physical store. If I know what I want (i.e.: not clothes I need to try on or see the style on me) I'm strongly motivated to buy online.
I get it (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly sometimes reading reviews I totally get why they'd make it more difficult. If I buy something and it arrives damaged or not working, then obviously that's a return. Clothing if it doesn't fit, sure.
That said, I've read some forum posts or reviews for something in binoculars where the person is sayings things like "I bought 3 pairs and tried them out and then sent back the 2 I didn't like.". Or "I didn't like this one feature about an item - sending it back."
The return policy shouldn't be a way to test drive products that you may or may not keep. It should be reserved for when something is obviously faulty, misrepresented, etc. If I don't do my research and end up buying something I don't like but its functioning exactly the way its intended to, then that's on me.
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Ok but how do you try something on before it arrives in the mail?
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I said in my response that returning clothing that doesn't fit is an acceptable return.
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Honestly, this is the 21st century. We should have a more sophisticated sizing model and clothes should be evaluated independently by the retailers to see where they fit on that sizing model, ignoring the manufacturer's listed size. The sizing model should take into account the actual topography of the bodies that the clothes will fit on and account for factors like elasticity, etc. It would take all of the stupid guesswork and hoping that the manufacturer is not outright lying about the size (like when pe
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It does not need to be perfect though, it just has to increase the odds that ordered clothes will be a fit. If it can work in 50% of cases, that's 50% less returns. As for special scanners. There's a lot of tech in cell phones these days and they tend to have clusters of cameras that can take 3D measurements, so producing a volumetric scan with a cell phone might be a possibility.
...how comfortable each pair feels depends on the day and I'm pretty sure it's not because my feet have changed in size.
They very well may have. Feet do change sizes throughout the day and night due to swelling. It's a natural phenomenon. So how co
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Re:I get it (Score:4, Informative)
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The return policy shouldn't be a way to test drive products that you may or may not keep
Negative. This is a very major reason Amazon is so popular... if you don't want it, it goes back. If they stop doing that, then me and whole lot of other people will just not shop there anymore, and let our Prime membership lapse.
Re:I get it (Score:5, Insightful)
Negative. This is a very major reason Amazon is so popular... if you don't want it, it goes back. If they stop doing that, then me and whole lot of other people will just not shop there anymore, and let our Prime membership lapse.
That's your choice, and I'm happy to stop subsidizing your poor shopping practices as we all pay higher prices from that type of behavior.
Do your research on stuff before you decide to purchase it. Read or watch reviews. Then decide whether or not you want this product - BEFORE YOU BUY IT. Return it if it doesn't work right or something is wrong (eg, if you ordered a red item but a blue one arrived), but if you just decide you don't like it, then you made a poorly researched purchase and that's on you.
Re: I get it (Score:2)
It's not poor shopping processes if they are following the vendor's policy. If the vendor creates a policy they don't want to honor, that's on them.
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You're not "subsidizing" shit. Very basic economics: The price of an item is what the market will bear. It's got nothing to do with other people making returns. You get charged the maximum amount that the retailer thinks you will pay for the item.
When Apple sets the price of the next iThing, they aren't thinking "hmm, well there will be some returns so 900 dollars" - they're thinking "How much will MBGMorden pay for this?". They aren't going to leave money on the table by pricing something at 850 when they
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Do your research on stuff before you decide to purchase it. Read or watch reviews. Then decide whether or not you want this product - BEFORE YOU BUY IT.
In some cases that is just not possible. And while not relevant to the American context it is also incompatible with many consumer protection laws such as the EU right to withdrawal.
Re:I get it (Score:5, Interesting)
Why not do a test drive with binoculars (or whatever)? One type might feel better in your hand or up against your eyes than another. One is lighter than the other. Maybe one has a sharper image.
This is why brick and mortar stores are so important. You can go to the place, examine the item in your hand, do a test drive, and make a decision. You buy it and go home knowing it's what you want and that it's working. Rather than, as you indicated, buying 3 different items, waiting for them to be delivered, opening each one, trying each one, making a decision, boxing up the ones you don't want, notifying the company which ones you are returning so you get your money back, then finally taking the boxes to be returned.
How many days did you waste ordering online compared to an hour or so at a store?
Re: I get it (Score:2)
"How many days did you waste ordering online compared to an hour or so at a store?"
The store might not have those items, or might not have them on display, and might not unbox them for you so you can check them.
The main reason I buy online is that local retail outlets have crap stock. They carry multiple basically identical items, or they have only one or two choices, or they just have nothing in the category at all.
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This is why I still prefer to do in store shoppings to see, try, etc. before buying.
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Re:I get it (Score:4, Informative)
The law in the UK actually says that you do have a right to test drive products. Because you don't have an opportunity to examine them before you get them, you can reject them for any or no reason in the first 14 days. The retailer can make you pay return postage if the items are not defective.
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Something like this happens in Brazil, also. By law, online customers have 7 days to return an item they don't want anymore, for any reason.
Only here, the law states that this is part of "the cost of doing business" and that the return costs must be paid by the seller.
I worked in e-commerce for a long time and know that return costs can be a pain. But going by the law we:
1) Factored return costs in shipping costs. It made shipping costs higher, yes, but only by a small margin and it didn't hurt sales.
2) Con
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I think it's definitely reduced the cost of returning stuff to Amazon. They have it streamlined like they do with deliveries now.
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If I don't do my research
What if you can't do your research. Especially in the tech world there's a tonne of issues for compatibility between devices. E.g. I had to return perfectly functioning RAM once simply because my motherboard didn't like running it at the speed it was advertised to run on. The alternate there is to limit my purchase to AVLs but that list is tiny and rarely up to date with the products on the market.
There are many legit reasons to need to return something. E.g. your "I don't like feature X". Maybe that featur
80-20 rule (Score:2)
Or in this case, it's more of a 5-95 rule. Where 5% are probably generating 95% of frivolous returns. I.e. not broken, wrong product sent etc actually valid reason to return the product.
These are the people who will order clothing to wear once and then return. Order several monitors to figure out which one to keep and return the rest. Etc. Overwhelming majority of people do not do this, but they end up paying for the returns of the tiny minority that do.
I would honestly prefer a more hardline approach, wher
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The largest online store from my country (think of it as a local Amazon) does this. If you exceed the average return rate (% of total orders), they will first warn you, then ban you from buying from that e-tailer if you continue.
I think I returned 3 or 4 out of over 300 orders from them, and only one was a good product, a bed mattress which I ordered in the wrong size, and that was me asking my ex-wife to measure the old mattress, turned out she just spat out a size she thought it was (it wasn't).
I'm actual
pushing customers to amazon (Score:3)
If brand dead and retailers refuse to stand behind their sales, I no longer have any reason to shop outside the most convenient and cheapest option - Amazon.
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Clothing (Score:3)
Without free returns, no one will buy clothing online.
Clothing *relies* on being able to be tried on. Sizing is inconsistent. Colors on the screen don't match the real world. "Fit" varies from person to person.
If you are an online clothing retailer, you *NEED* free returns. Otherwise, no one will buy anything.
Sow agressive advertising (Score:2)
Well kiss my zombie, (Score:2)
JCpenny's is still around? If so, they shouldn't be so judgemental with customers since they should be very thankful they still have any.
bad packaging (Score:2)
Wife ordered 2 bottles from Ulta. They were sent in a box without enough packing material, and the bottles cracked and leaked. Wife called them, they sent us a return label and ordered replacements. The replacements were sent in a bubblewrap envelope, so of course those broke and leaked, too Wife got another return label and asked for her money back. In both cases, I had to wrap the original packaging to keep them from leaking into the boxes I used to send them back to Ulta. If they're willing to pay
"cracking down" ? (Score:2)
There is nothing to crack down on. They offer free returns. People get free returns. This is not a crackdown. It is a price increase. Thanks, theatlantic, for gaslighting us into thinking there is something immoral about taking advantage of a return policy.
Be fair (Score:2)
>"U.S. retailers are cracking down on free returns as costs spiral out of control"
One thing that I hope online retailers will consider before any policy changes: Do not punish your loyal customers who rarely, if ever, return things. For example, I have only returned a SINGLE item out of many many hundreds of things I have ordered on Amazon over many, many years. I might be unusual, but I know people who CONSTANTLY return things, and I would be pissed if *I* had to return something and was charged for
Rent a car seat (Score:1)
My son (a Millionaire Ivy-League MBA) has done this. At the time he had 2 kids. Flew from California to visit grandma in Kentucky. Bought 2 car seats and had them shipped to Grandma. Used them for a week, then took them back for a refund. When grandma complained that wasn't moral, he said "Oh Grandma, EVERYBODY is doing this. Those who are "honest" as you say are STUPID!". THIS is why the returns are drying up. BTW: he did the same with emotional support animals to get his dog to fly for free. These kids