Crypto Meltdown Continues, Next Up: BlockFi (reuters.com) 132
Long-time Slashdot reader kid_wonder writes: BlockFi, a crypto exchange, had suspended withdrawals on Friday and now appears to be having serious issues directly related to the FTX meltdown. In an email to customers this morning they said: "The rumors that a majority of BlockFi assets are custodied at FTX are false. That said, we do have significant exposure to FTX and associated corporate entities that encompasses obligations owed to us by Alameda, assets held at FTX.com, and undrawn amounts from our credit line with FTX US. While we will continue to work on recovering all obligations owed to BlockFi, we expect that the recovery of the obligations owed to us by FTX will be delayed as FTX works through the bankruptcy process.
At this time, withdrawals from BlockFi continue to be paused. We also continue to ask clients not to submit any deposits to BlockFi Wallet or Interest Accounts." Reuters has a list of some firms who have given information about their exposure to FTX.
At this time, withdrawals from BlockFi continue to be paused. We also continue to ask clients not to submit any deposits to BlockFi Wallet or Interest Accounts." Reuters has a list of some firms who have given information about their exposure to FTX.
The crypto bubble... (Score:4, Funny)
...just popped like a zit.
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There is a God, and She's also laughing.
But, not having met God, how are you so certain about their pronouns?
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I'm a Prophet. And yes, I accept cash donations.
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You accepting crypto?
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Never a mod point when you need one.
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Well, we do sing Hymns, not Hers
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The only way this could be more satisfying is if it hit Elno in the nuts at the same time he lights billions of dollars of other billionaires' money on fire by deleting critical code from his impulse buy
Dear suckers (Score:4, Insightful)
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Why, the customer wanted the NFT of them so you have to nuke the real monkeys?
Shocked (Score:3)
I'm shock.... no wait... I'm not shocked at any of this anymore. Anyone with half a brain saw it coming, those who lost their shirts are quick fools. Those who took it are con men and should be sent to prison.
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Anyone with half a brain saw it coming, those who lost their shirts are quick fools. Those who took it are con men and should be sent to prison
Poor Tom and Gisele. They were in.
roflmao
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Anyone with half a brain saw it coming, those who lost their shirts are quick fools. Those who took it are con men and should be sent to prison
Poor Tom and Gisele. They were in.
roflmao
Antonio Brown is hinting he was in as well. At least in Gisele.
Another bubble popping (Score:4, Funny)
With the 17th century tulip bubble, at least people could eat the tulip bulbs they got stuck with. This cryptocurrency bubble is ending just as badly but you don't have anything at all when you're left holding the bag.
Re:Another bubble popping (Score:5, Funny)
The heat coming of those mining rigs is probably sufficient for cooking some tulip bulbs...
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That's not just unfair, but it's factually wrong. You do have something... if you're left holding the bag, you have a bag.
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Actually, you don't even get a bag.
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That's not true. You can use your now-worthless crypto coins to mint unique sad face emojis, which you can sell as NFTs.
Re: Another bubble popping (Score:2)
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Stomp your foot harder, then at least you can convince yourself that you're not the biggest fool who didn't find a bigger one anymore and that the dead horse is gonna get up and win the race aaaaaany moment now.
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What are the odds (Score:2)
Someone the other day asked how much of that 1.5 trillion "market cap" of crypto was actually money people had invested in it. Clearly the actual investment isn't anywhere near that high, but it's beginning to look like maybe they've just been passing around the $20 or whatever Hanyecz's pizzas were worth.
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Luckily I invested in ugly monkey pictures! (Score:2)
Or at least the right to own the link to them as I don't even have the rights to the original picture which the artist didn't spent more than 5 minutes on because he had to create thousands of these ugly monkeys.
My monkeys are cryptogrofocially safe because they are blockchained to everyone's computer so my investment is safe!
Now I have to wait until they are worth billions.
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5 minutes would be a long time for a monkey NFT....
Because, if you look at enough of them, you realize that they're Mr. Potato Head. Machine generated - people draw a bunch of different hair things, sometimes merely applying a different shader, face things like different glasses, teeth, and such. Different nose and ear art like piercing.
Then simply mix and match.
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i member...
Re:member the good old days (Score:5, Insightful)
Rember when the average person with common sense could recognize a pyramid scheme?
The only thing funnier than cryptocoin are "stablecoins".
This energy wasting nonsense hopefully totally craters soon.
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But NFTs are funnier than the whole lot
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NFTs are when you make a painting of the tulips, right?
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I think the average person is more likely to have participated in a pyramid scheme than be able to identify one.
It shouldn't be too hard to find out either, I would think the bureau of labor statistics tracks employment in multi-level-marketing. Although a decent chunk of those working arrangements are probably off-the-books... they seem to love snagging teens, housewives, etc.
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But, said the average person every single time, this time it's different.
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Yeah, this is not one of those shady pyramid schemes, our form is the trapezoid.
Don't forget funding ransomeware! (Score:3)
Rember when the average person with common sense could recognize a pyramid scheme?
The only thing funnier than cryptocoin are "stablecoins".
This energy wasting nonsense hopefully totally craters soon.
I would love to see the whole market destroyed just to make it inconvenient to fund cybercrime. Instead of paying ransomware in bitcoin, I guess those lowlifes are going to have to ransom your data with gift cards? I can't think of one good thing cryptocurrency brought us, but I can think of dozens of problems: Ponzi schemes, wasted electricity, making GPUs nearly impossible to buy + funding crime, troll-farms, and terrorism. Good riddance!!!
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Say yo live in Argentina. you've to pay 2.5% of property tax, plus %35 to %50 on Earning taxes and other shit. Most business aren't profitable that way. So Black Market Economy is rampant and tolerated...
But everything is cash, so you either have hard dollars hidden under your mattress. With the risk of getting robbed.
Or you can have your assets on an exchange / ledger.
How is tax evasion good for us? (Score:2)
Tax evasion and inflation coverage... Say yo live in Argentina. you've to pay 2.5% of property tax, plus %35 to %50 on Earning taxes and other shit. Most business aren't profitable that way. So Black Market Economy is rampant and tolerated... But everything is cash, so you either have hard dollars hidden under your mattress. With the risk of getting robbed. Or you can have your assets on an exchange / ledger.
I think tax evasion is one of the worst crimes out there. It's perfectly rational and leads to rampant corruption. If your taxes are too high, voters should demand lower tax rates. If I were made supreme dictator, the first thing I would do is crack down on tax evasion hard. The rest of us law-abiding citizens are subsidizing the wealthy tax cheats who are using cryptocurrency to have the middle class fund their lavish lifestyle. I think it's the most damaging crimes out there. If you don't like Argen
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1) "If your taxes are too high, voters should demand lower tax rates." We try. But with large portions of population paying NO taxes and living off government charity, they certainly love to increase taxes on those of us who do.
2) "If I were made supreme dictator". Ah, the wet dream of all petty tyrants.
3) "I would do is crack down on tax evasion hard.The rest of us law-abiding citizens are subsidizing the wealthy tax cheats who are using cryptocurrency to have the middle class fund
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They'll probably just return to using Western Union again.
Re: member the good old days (Score:3)
Yeah I saw it 12 years ago when I read about this new "currency" you could get for less than $0.50, based on and backed by nothing at all. I saw the scam then, but still kick myself for not dumping $100 into it. I could have been at the top of the pyramid.
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Speculative assets are not "pyramid schemes". Something about 2021 made everyone think that anything that goes up and down in value is a "pyramid scheme". Do you guys not have wikipedia in Confus-istan or wherever you are posting from?
Re: member the good old days (Score:2)
crypto is a pyramid scheme because it depends on an ever increasing amount of people to buy into the scam. Otherwise it collapses.
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Every single point you asserted is incorrect. I'll point by point, because I guess I'm in a mood.
"crypto is a pyramid scheme because it depends on an ever increasing amount of people to buy into"
Your definition of pyramid scheme is incomplete and overly broad:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
But lets move past that. DOES crypto require "an ever increasing amount of people"?
The answer here is actually no. Like stocks, or precious metals, or collectibles, there's arguably a "greater fool" theory at work- w
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Rember when the average person with common sense could recognize a pyramid scheme?
No.
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Rember when the average person with common sense could recognize a pyramid scheme?
when was that? as far back as the 1600s people fell for tuplip mania, more recent pre-internet you have Tupperware, Mary-Kay and Avon direct sale pyramid schemes.
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Tulip mania is an exaggerated meme story, the facts are only about 350 people and a few companies involved, and it did NOT have any effect whatsoever on the Dutch economy.
So it's an apt comparison. Granted, it's not just the Netherlands anymore but the whole world and the number of dupes scales accordingly, but aside of that, same shit as back then: Only a fairly small number of people fell for it and the economy barely registered it.
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Rember when the average person with common sense could recognize a pyramid scheme?
I never heard somebody tell that FTX exchange was a pyramid scheme. In fact, it is hard to imagine an exchange which can make millions with trading fees would need to scam its clients. Exact same thing happened to banks in 2008 and billions was given by states to save them... So no, you didn't see it coming, you predicted something completely different, be honest. Stablecoins collapse could happen but it has not yet (beside LUNA but it wasn't a stablecoin).
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>I never heard somebody tell that FTX exchange was a pyramid scheme.
I don't think FTX was even a pyramid scheme. It was clearly some incredibly huge scam, but it's not clear it started that way. The leadership of it always came across as completely wacky people, glib and shifty, so if, for some reason, you were looking for the type of place FTX was, I suspect you'd have taken one look at that Bankman-Fried guy and laughed your way to the next stop. But apparently enough people were taken in by their b
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I'm gonna be the crypto-bro reply guy for this entire story I guess. Tons of bad takes.
1- Stablecoins come in several varieties, but the idea where a centralized thing takes dollars and issues stablecoins that they can later redeem for those dollars is exactly as sketchy, and no more, than a bank. This is what coinbase does, for instance. It may even be less sketchy because banks aren't even required to maintain fractional reserves as they did pre-COVID. The USA now practices zero reserve banking, poten
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Yeah, we get it, you sit on a pile of worthless crapcoins and are desperately looking for the bigger idiot, but sorry, bro, that ship has sailed.
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2- "This energy wasting nonsense"
Oh, that's your concern? It's certainly not something you just brought up secondarily, right? Well, you'll be pleased to know that proof of capacity or proof of commitment greatly diminish the amount of environmental impact while still hooking the ability to forge the blockchain into something with physical reality and finiteness
Can't be human stupidity then, that's endless. The problem with proof of anything other than work is that nobody has yet proved that you can have one of those that doesn't go tits up.
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Ethereum went proof of stake and hasn't really died or anything.
Proof of capacity and proof of commitment have less shining histories, but the technology is fine- it's just been applied to blockchains no one is hyped about. Signum has a tiny market cap, but it cranks blocks out, you can send messages, do smart contracts, all that stuff. If you invested in it heavily near the peak you are wrecked, sure, but as a technology it just sits there doing its thing.
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Would you trust a bank from some country with poor law enforcement? If no, then you probably don't want stablecoins that are sourced from those places either. If so, well, then, go right ahead.
What stablecoin can I hold with the same level of confidence as cash held in an FDIC-guaranteed bank deposit? Keeping in mind that until a few weeks ago FTX would've been called one of the most stable/trustworthy issuers in the industry. I agree that there's nothing inherently sketchy about the concept of a stablecoin, but at this point, I haven't seen one that actually lives up to its claims.
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>What stablecoin can I hold with the same level of confidence as cash held in an FDIC-guaranteed bank deposit?
Given that the FDIC can borrow trillions (basically creating the money) to pay FDIC insurance, I honestly don't think anything rises to that level.
Of the stablecoins, USDC is by far the closest, as Coinbase is a part bank, part exchange, and is in theory not engaged in fractional reserve with USDC. I don't hold any stablecoins for long, but if I was going to, USDC would be my choice at the momen
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Would you trust a bank from some country with poor law enforcement? If no, then you probably don't want stablecoins that are sourced from those places either. If so, well, then, go right ahead.
What stablecoin can I hold with the same level of confidence as cash held in an FDIC-guaranteed bank deposit? Keeping in mind that until a few weeks ago FTX would've been called one of the most stable/trustworthy issuers in the industry. I agree that there's nothing inherently sketchy about the concept of a stablecoin, but at this point, I haven't seen one that actually lives up to its claims.
I'm not sure. Is there any cryptocurrency that'd allow the govt to seize your account because you dared criticize the Dear Leader? Probably not, at least not any major one. So yeah, I don't think the same (abysmally low) level of confidence as "cash held in an FDIC-guaranteed bank deposit" is possible in crypto.
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Rember when the average person with common sense could recognize a pyramid scheme?
You have a contradiction right there. The ones with common sense are already a small and select group. An "average" person is as dumb as bread.
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Rember when the average person with common sense could recognize a pyramid scheme?
The average person has never been good at recognizing pyramid schemes. The phrase "There's a sucker born every minute" was coined by PT Barnum in the 19th century for a reason.
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You mean, use cryptocurrencies as actual currencies? TL;DR, no, you can't. If you find a site which accepts Bitcoin payments, what you have behind the scenes is a payments processor which converts your crypto to real money, at the spot exchange rate at the time.
The reason is the same why exchanges exist. The only value associated with cryptocurrencies is their hard-currency denomination.
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>If you find a site which accepts Bitcoin payments, what you have behind the scenes is a payments processor which converts your crypto to real money, at the spot exchange rate at the time.
This depends entirely on where you go and what you are buying. Buying stuff on Newegg? Yup, that's how it works. Donating to some charity? Maybe it works that way, maybe not. Buying books or coffee from just a regular person? They may sell the cryptocurrency or not, but they don't necessarily all have exchanges pl
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No, the only value associated with currencies or cryptocurrencies is their ability to purchase goods and services.
Which in turn comes down to the trust people have in the value of the cryptobull. Which in turn is the reason why the ponzi scheme comes crashing down.
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No, the only value associated with currencies or cryptocurrencies is their ability to purchase goods and services.
Which, again, is zero - per your own admission.
Bitcoin doesn't have any more intrinsic value than a check.
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Bitcoin doesn't have any more intrinsic value than a check.
The $20 bill in your pocket has (essentially) zero intrinsic value too. The only reason it's worth $20 is because our government says so.
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Yes. The value of that dollar in your pocket is precisely that you can settle debt with it - and the lender is obligated to accept it.
Good luck doing that with crypto.
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Yes. The value of that dollar in your pocket is precisely that you can settle debt with it - and the lender is obligated to accept it.
Good luck doing that with crypto.
Ah, so I guess money didn't exist until 19th century, when the "lender is obligated to accept it" part first started being widely legislated? Or maybe just leftist morons have no clue about how economy works and as usual think it's the government (LOL!) that is the source of all value in the world?
Re:member the good old days (Score:5, Interesting)
Setting up a BitCoin wallet involves some mild technical hurdles, at least ca. 2015 when I looked at it. You had to be comfortable with using a command line interface. You had to have the patience to download the entire blockchain in the process - it was like 40 GB back then, so probably a terabyte now.
Exchanges lowered the intellectual barrier to entry.
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The Bitcoin blockchain is something like 405 GB, if i recall correctly. Ethereum, which acts like a central hub for a lot of crypto crap, is well over 1 TB by now.
And that's why exchanges and stuff like Infura and Alchemy exist in the first place. The only way to have a real client is to sync all of that data, and good luck trying to do that on your phone.
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So basically to use the money I have to dedicate half my laptops’ hard disk?? Yeah sure.
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No, you can just go get Exodus (or a bunch of other ones that don't do that), and use that. You only run the whole blockchain if you really want to.
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> The only way to have a real client is to sync all of that data, and good luck trying to do that on your phone.
This is true, but there's plenty of wallets that don't sync a blockchain. If you get Cake wallet and put bitcoin on it, well, it certainly isn't getting the whole blockchain. Neither is Exodus. Or a pile of other ones.
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You do not need an entire blockchain now, nor have you for a long time. Exchanges were around that entire time too pretty much- certainly in 2015.
I think the phone apps lowered the barrier to entry, especially the ones that let you assume all of the risk and not even own the coins, like robinhood.
A lot of people leave stuff on the exchanges instead of running like a hundred wallets or whatever though.
Re:member the good old days (Score:5, Informative)
As I understand it (which is probably as shaky an understanding as yours, tbh) the exchanges are how you convert (exchange) your fiat currency to coin, and more importantly, how you covert your coin into fiat currency -- you know, real money. And so for people who think of coin not as currency, but an investment -- you know, where you buy low and sell high -- there is no interest in storing coin on your person, ie a wallet. What these fools want to do is buy some coin for a small amount of fiat, wait for it to increase in value, and then covert it back to more fiat than they put in. Casinos are more honest and entertaining.
And if the fiat value of what you put in decreases suddenly, and it looks like the exchange doesn't have enough fiat to cover their coin, you get the fuck out in a hurry. In the old days they called it a run on the bank.
Re:member the good old days (Score:4, Interesting)
Sure you can. One problem though, it costs a bundle in transaction fees because you have to bribe some miner to process it for you.
It turns out that's a big enough problem that cryptocurrency isn't really workable as a currency, but a bunch of speculators spent a lot of money on it so they have to convince everyone "it's the future." So you can trade one for another. You definitely don't want to pay transaction fees on all of those trades though, so you get an exchange to let you pretend to make them.
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Sure you can. One problem though, it costs a bundle in transaction fees because you have to bribe some miner to process it for you
WTF are you even on about? Your statement can't be meant to relate to all coins, clearly. And if you are talking about Bitcoin, you can send a transaction, RIGHT NOW, even as "congested" as the mempool is at the moment, for 14sat/byte, getting in on the very next block, which works out to less than ~$0.55 as a transaction fee. https://jochen-hoenicke.de/que... [jochen-hoenicke.de]
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Ah, a crypto bro!
https://bitinfocharts.com/comp... [bitinfocharts.com]
It is pretty low right now. Not as low as you claim of course. Guess nobody wants to buy any bitcoin for some reason. Of course, when you *do* need to make a transaction, it's gonna cost you.
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Bullshit. You can admit you are wrong, dancing on an old trope. The website you are showing is what people paid for a transaction fee, not what was needed to get into the next block. There are shitty wallet software out there that will set your transaction fee to the top 10% in the mempool to "guarantee" you get into the next block. Most blocks carry 2000-4000 transactions a block. You just need to bid over all of the bottom dwellers that are ok with their transactions not being "instant". Yeah, you can pay
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>Of course, when you *do* need to make a transaction, it's gonna cost you. ...one and a half dollars.
Also, why are you focusing on just the bitcoin chart? Is it because that's the only one that has really been a high cost for a simple transaction, something that, you know, they fixed?
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>One problem though, it costs a bundle in transaction fees because you have to bribe some miner to process it for you.
>It turns out that's a big enough problem that cryptocurrency isn't really workable as a currency
This post is such a shit take that I just am replyguying the entire fucking thread, congrats.
https://ycharts.com/indicators... [ycharts.com]
Here go click "Max". Wow, remember that spike when bitcoin (and only bitcoin) cost like 60 bucks a transaction? Lets pretend that's all of history, past and presen
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"Anyway, no, there's no fundamental problem here about transaction costs."
Yea there is; I don't fucking pay to use my debit card and use my money. Why the FUCK should I have to pay to use yours?
Get the fuck out of here with that dishonest bullshit, child.
Re: member the good old days (Score:5, Informative)
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>Yea there is; I don't fucking pay to use my debit card and use my money. Why the FUCK should I have to pay to use yours?
Rude AND wrong! This is quite the gift.
First, you absolutely pay to use your debit card, or your credit card. Vendors lose money when you do that versus paying cash- some will even encourage you by giving you a discount to not use plastic.
Second, the reason you always pay a transaction fee- be it Visa, Mastercard, or Bitcoin- is to fund the infrastructure that processes the payments.
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Vendors also pay cash handling fees to bank cash as well so debit cards are not necessarily more expensive for them than cash. I also would be shocked if vendors didn't pay exchanges a fee to covert their crypto into cash.
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>First, you absolutely pay to use your debit card, or your credit card. Vendors lose money
You do understand that *purchasers* aren't *Vendors*?
I *make* money on my credit card transactions. I pay the same price as everyone else. I haven't been to a place that has discounts for cash in some time.
So no, as far as I can tell, there is no cryptocurrency that pays *me* to transact with their coin. Can you think of one? Thanks!
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One item that I'm not seeing on the reasons to use exchanges is time and cost. It can cost a lot of time to do an actual bitcoin exchange - up to 90+ minutes. So if you want it fast, you need to use an exchange, which short circuits the block chain and is speedy by not using it. They'll do catch-up trades between exchanges on a schedule.
Meanwhile, with Etherium you have "gas fees", IE you have to pay to have your trade executed. This can add up. Exchanges, again by not using the chain, can avoid those
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>. It can cost a lot of time to do an actual bitcoin exchange - up to 90+ minutes. So if you want it fast, you need to use an exchange, which short circuits the block chain and is speedy by not using it. They'll do catch-up trades between exchanges on a schedule.
This is NOT why exchanges are used. Certainly you are correct that if I want to buy N bitcoin and then sell M bitcoin and then buy P bitcoin and then sell O bitcoin, or whatever, then I'd better do that on an exchange, but it's more because you'
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Exchanges are to make it easy for users who don't know what they are doing to "buy Bitcoin". However, unless they move their holdings to a non-custodial wallet, there is a chance that an exchange can vanish with everyone's holdings.
To someone who doesn't know any better, a bank and an exchange look quite similar, especially with KYC/AML stuff needed to enter, etc.
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The exchange lets you change real money for fake money, and fake money for other fake money, without directly interfacing with somebody else. Essentially everything about cryptocurrency is a lie.
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They pay interest on your holdings by lending out your crypto.
That's how I obtained all my crypto.- getting paid 9% interest on cash holding that were making 1% in a real bank. It sounds kind of flaky, but if you wanted to borrow crypto you would have to put up 50% collateral and pay like 20% interest. That sounded pretty conservative at the time if you picked the right coins to buy and didn't go for the super speculative ones.
I will add one more interesting bit - Gemini is probably the most stable exchang
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>might be the last exchange standing
You are greatly overstating the danger. FTX was much higher on this chart than I would have guessed:
https://www.reuters.com/market... [reuters.com]
But look at the shape of that graph (btw Gemini would be 22 on this top list). Obviously, nothing is going to happen to Kraken (I mean, the media hates that guy, but that's for the same reason they loved that Bankman-Fried guy- it's a political angle), or Coinbase, and yea, nothing bad should end up happening to Gemini either.
Anyway, wh
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>Can anyone explain to me, in logical or technical terms, why there are these "Exchanges"?
An exchange lets you trade fiat for cryptocurrency, or vice versa. More commonly, it lets you exchange cryptocurrencies. Say for instance you take a look at the "Internet Computer" chart on coingecko ( https://www.coingecko.com/en/c... [coingecko.com] )- for those who can't click, if you look at this from "Max" it resembles nothing more than a y=1/x graph, starting hugely high and swooping into a long, low curve that has never re
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>and there's also a zillion cryptocurrencies, but most places will take the big ones- bitcoin, litecoin, ethereum, sometimes monero, dash, etc.
Please define "most places". I can't seem to find anyone taking it locally, and "most places" online (that is, every site I have ever bought something from) don't take any crypto either. Thanks!
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Re: member the good old days (Score:2)
Simply put, to rob their customers...notice every exchange "got hacked", clearly inside jobs. Now that the price of crypto is crashing, there is pressure on exchange operators to "cash out", aka seal the deal on robbing their customers as planned, and convert it to a real currency before it all becomes worthless. So we'll be seeing these "issues" a lot.
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Can anyone explain to me, in logical or technical terms, why there are these "Exchanges"?
A wallet is somewhere you keep your cryptocurrency.
An exchange allows you to trade your cryptocurrencies. So you can trade Bitcoin for Dogecoin for Ethereum.
Or at least they did, until they all went belly-up thanks to shady hijinks.
They existed because fundamentally Crypto Bros saw cryptocurrency as a speculation medium, not actual money.
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>Or at least they did, until they all went belly-up thanks to shady hijinks.
FTX went belly up, not "all exchanges". The vast majority of exchanges are totally fine- those that trusted FTX are in some amount of hot water.
The dirtiest and strangest part of all this was when they turned on withdrawals JUST for people in the Bahamas- which is, for the most part, FTX employees, and implied this the result of some local regulation- which was not at all the case.
Anyway, the vast majority of cryto exchanges are
Re: member the good old days (Score:2)
no, pyramid schemes like crypto need increasing amount of duped to buy in or they collapse. not true of stocks.
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No they don't. Their value is based on the distribution of scarce resources. Basically what you're saying is that anything people desire is automatically part of a pyramid scheme. Not so. Crypto like stocks do offer alternative functions.
In any case you keep using a word representing a very real crime that is illegal in basically the entire world. So Occam's razor comes into play: Either the enforcement systems of nations the world order is turning a blind eye to what you are describing as what is on the bo
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False. A pyramid scheme takes money for things that have no value. Cryptocoin are falling to their true value, zero. The pyramid scheme's influx is insufficient to keep the blow-up doll inflated.
Your very usage of the words "true value" shows you have no fucking clue about how economy works. Please educate yourself.
Re:member the good old days (Score:5, Funny)
I used a Commodore-64 because I was afraid of x86 malware. Mined only 17 cents worth, but hey, no viruses!