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Comment Re:Wrong way around (Score 2) 383

The systemd team didn't create those dependencies, the DE maintainers did. All of these DEs ran just fine without systemd and they still could if someone was interested in doing so.

The systemd developers have been active in the DE mailing lists, encouraging them to make systemd a dependency. See here for an example.

Comment Re:Duh (Score 1) 383

And I've personally compiled and installed non-init parts of systemd.

Which parts? Do tell.

LOL no amount of trolling the links will get me interesting in reading your slashdot journal, and no, writing an essay does not replace discussion. Nobody is going to go read that shit. You're generally expected to type in new comments as part of a discussion, and to formulate them for the current context.

Are you capable of discussing things without insulting? So far the answer is no.

Comment Re:Duh (Score 1) 383

Is it not possible to just write a standard interface that would have it working with any init system?

That's the right idea, because the interfaces are more important than the code. It's more complex than just an "init interface," but clearly there needs to be a division between the init system and the "system manager demon."

Comment Re:Duh (Score 1) 383

For the average user, don't worry about the difference. ;)

The average user is happy with Windows, let's be honest.

Also, if you read the article, you absolutely do not need the systemd init system to use the new features.

I don't know what article you're talking about specifically, but it looks like to get it to work, you need to use an older version of uPower. And it isn't a new feature, it's a feature that's been there for a while a long time, but now depends on systemd.

using non-init parts of systemd to allow the desktop environment to monitor the user inputs

The non-init parts of systemd aren't separable from the init parts. I discussed part of the issue here.

As many skilled people as possible need to start thinking about the init problem, so we end up with something good.

Comment Re:Duh (Score 1) 383

You're right. KDE is not depending on an init system.

You're wrong......the "system management" portions don't work without the init system. For example, logind depends on systemd quite clearly, look at the function execute_shutdown_or_sleep().

People have tried to separate the system management portions from the init portions of systemd, but it was rather more difficult than you'd expect and they gave up.

Comment Re:Duh (Score 1) 383

It's not clear what you mean by "tight integration."

But it's not necessary to have a monolithic system in order to make something avoid it you need to make clear interfaces.

As mentioned, the kernel has to deal with much more integral and disparate pieces than systemd does, and yet it is still relatively simple to swap one kernel for another. If the kernels can do it, then there is no excuse for systemd.

Comment Re:Duh (Score 1) 383

I guess the point is: KDE isn't a "window manager" - instead it's a desktop environment, which includes functionality for power management

Yes, I think you are right.

And it's reasonable architecture for power management controls to depend upon power managing daemons.

But it's not reasonable for it to depend on a particular init system.

Comment Re:Duh (Score 1) 383

If any other init system + provided the features necessary for the modern desktop environments, then I'm sure they would not hesitate to support it

The init system should not be providing those features. That is entirely the problem.

and no one other then systemd has bothered to create a viable solution to the destkop environments problems.

What was wrong with Powerdevil and pm-utils?

Comment Re:Duh (Score 4, Insightful) 383

This lets the desktop environments have more advanced features then they would with init systems that don't do this delegation.

An init system shouldn't be doing that stuff. You know how sometimes people complain that "systemd is monolithic?" That is what they are talking about: you can't get that stuff separately from your init system.

The shortest distance between two points is under construction. -- Noelie Alito