Amazon Opens 'Surveillance-Powered, No-Checkout Convenience Store' (geekwire.com) 266
An anonymous reader quotes GeekWire:
The first Amazon Go grocery and convenience store will open to the public Monday in Seattle -- letting any person with an Amazon account, the Amazon Go app and a willingness to give up more of their personal privacy than usual simply grab anything they want and walk out, without going through a checkout line... After shoppers check in by scanning their unique QR code, overhead cameras work with weight sensors in the shelves to precisely track which items they pick up and take with them. When they leave, they just leave. Amazon Go's systems automatically debit their accounts for the items they take, sending the receipt to the app. In my first test of Amazon Go this past week, my elapsed time in the store was exactly 23 seconds -- from scanning the QR code at the entrance to exiting with my chosen item...
The company says the tracking is precise enough to distinguish between multiple people standing side-by-side at a shelf, detecting which one picked up a yogurt or cupcake, for example, and which one was merely browsing. The system also knows when people pick up items and put them back, ensuring that Amazon doesn't dock anyone's account for milk or chips when they simply wanted to read the label. The idea is to "push the boundaries of computer vision and machine learning" to create an "effortless experience for customers," said Dilip Kumar, Amazon Go vice president of technology, after taking GeekWire through the store this past week... Apart from the kitchen staff preparing fresh food at the back, we saw only two workers in the 1,800-square-foot Amazon Go store during our visit: one at the beer and wine section to check IDs, and another just inside the entrance to greet customers.
TechCrunch calls it "Amazon's surveillance-powered no-checkout convenience store," adding "the system is made up of dozens and dozens of camera units mounted to the ceiling, covering and recovering every square inch of the store from multiple angles."
The Seattle Times reports that the store "was also criticized by grocery-store workers' unions, which feared an effort to automate the work done by cashiers, the second-most-common job in the U.S."
The company says the tracking is precise enough to distinguish between multiple people standing side-by-side at a shelf, detecting which one picked up a yogurt or cupcake, for example, and which one was merely browsing. The system also knows when people pick up items and put them back, ensuring that Amazon doesn't dock anyone's account for milk or chips when they simply wanted to read the label. The idea is to "push the boundaries of computer vision and machine learning" to create an "effortless experience for customers," said Dilip Kumar, Amazon Go vice president of technology, after taking GeekWire through the store this past week... Apart from the kitchen staff preparing fresh food at the back, we saw only two workers in the 1,800-square-foot Amazon Go store during our visit: one at the beer and wine section to check IDs, and another just inside the entrance to greet customers.
TechCrunch calls it "Amazon's surveillance-powered no-checkout convenience store," adding "the system is made up of dozens and dozens of camera units mounted to the ceiling, covering and recovering every square inch of the store from multiple angles."
The Seattle Times reports that the store "was also criticized by grocery-store workers' unions, which feared an effort to automate the work done by cashiers, the second-most-common job in the U.S."
this will make it Harder To Prosecute Shoplifting (Score:2)
like self check out just wait people will try to work out ways to get free stuff at this store.
https://www.fierceretail.com/o... [fierceretail.com]
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Our supermarket now has self checkout as well, and we get checked just as frequently and in the same way. What surprises me is the perfunctory manner of the check: they never count items or check stuff at the bot
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It is going to be exceptionally easy when they find the bag of sand to just press a button and view the video of "last time the weight of this item fluctuated" and see who you were. You have to authenticate to gain access to the store.
Idiots wave their hands and imagine video-game quality theft schemes, these tweakers will get arrested after the first time they manage to steal somebody's identity and make it into the store.
You have to be basically illiterate to think that a current "self checkout line" is u
Fix the economy so innovation benefits all (Score:2)
The political economy is broken: innovation that delivers broad productivity and standard-of-living increases is "bad" because it puts people out of work. This phenomenon is not new. For example, some metro transit systems rolled out in the 70's were designed for total automation, but were forced to employ operators by unions and/or public outcry.
There are two simple, direct fixes that should be on the table. One is a basic income, the other a jobs guarantee.
Re: Fix the economy so innovation benefits all (Score:2)
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You can't have an economy based on consumption when no one can afford to buy because they don't have jobs to earn the money that it takes to consume.
Exactly. Also, both basic income and jobs guarantee could virtually eliminate a host of other social ills, like homelessness and food insecurity. Those things directly make all of our lives worse, e.g. by forcing us to walk through feces encrusted encampments and increasing the incidence of property crimes.
Further, unlike top-heavy tax cuts, bottom-heavy cash transfers for folks with marginal propensity to consume near 1 will drive growth and thereby limit their impact on net government revenue.
Re:Fix the economy so innovation benefits all (Score:5, Interesting)
Unemployment insurance is just a holdover from another era, dressed up to appeal to old boomers too lazy to work and too entitled to seek training or personal betterment.
Instead of paying people NOT to work - the big government idea favored by the AC - we should allow federal agencies (especially parks and transportation) to hire unlimited minimum wage workers for infrastructure improvement projects or paid training. This approach eliminates other wage regulation (the private sector must pay higher than the guarantee wage), delivers the ultimate work requirement for government assistance, and provides a direct avenue to labor force retraining/modernization. It's far simpler than the current system involving complex, overlapping big government programs, more economically useful (infrastructure building and maintenance), and more socially useful for able-bodied people (training opportunities, work requirements, etc.).
A jobs guarantee is THE conservative answer to welfare, and it's a shame you (the AC) are too close-minded to see it.
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Having people available to ask for help reaching high shelves is not a sign of being accessible, that literally means that it is not accessible for those people. Duh. You need to back off and ask what accessibility is about, instead of reaching off-hand conclusions and presuming that they must be informative.
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Having people available to ask for help reaching high shelves is not a sign of being accessible, that literally means that it is not accessible for those people. Duh. You need to back off and ask what accessibility is about, instead of reaching off-hand conclusions and presuming that they must be informative.
The obvious difference being that in a regular store, an old lady who can't reach the high shelf can be helped and actually get what she needs.
In this store, fellow shoppers can't even help her, because if they pull a product off the shelf, they get charged.
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This is a non sequitur. Sure, this store might have issues that limit its ability to replace cashiers at the present time ("ability," because elderly people are a significant market segment that would be unprofitable to ignore). For the moment, so do self-driving cars (*cough* inclement weather *cough*).
The point is that there's something fundamentally wrong with a system wherein elimination of menial labor is somehow bad.
Nice challenge! (Score:5, Interesting)
From the TFA:
"The company says the tracking is precise enough to distinguish between multiple people standing side-by-side at a shelf, detecting which one picked up a yogurt or cupcake, for example, and which one was merely browsing. "
I would take that as a challenge! What can I get a away with, how can I obscure, or fool the "AI", what are the limitations and assumptions, can I beat the design engineers? Very interesting problem!
If I would be tempted to do that - who hasn't shoplifted once in 47 years - what would that indicate for the average shoplifting rate?
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The cost savings from no employees (Score:5, Insightful)
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Meeting in the marketing department:
The last time alvinrod was in the store, he bought a chicken and tofurky slices, unsalted chips and 500g of sea salt, non-alcoholic beer and two bottles of wines, vanilla ice cream and coconut milk frozen dessert...
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One of his two personalities is a vegan health nut. Problem solved. Wait, would the health nut buy the wine or the non-alcoholic beer?!
Re: The cost savings from no employees (Score:2)
Choice and monopolism are water and oil.
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Probably doesn't need to be super accurate, beyond not accidently charging people for stuff. Like self service check outs the losses may be a little higher but the savings compared to employing staff more than make up for them.
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The hard part isn't just fooling the AI, it is doing it in a way that doesn't cause the AI to detect that your signal is problematic and flag you for human analysis. The human can watch you for a bit and easily see you're playing some sort of "game" and ban you, even if they can't figure out your scam. This is going to be so much harder than doing the same thing in a store right now, with only humans to fool, and where they don't have all the shoppers authenticated and so have to catch thieves "live."
Re:Nice challenge! (Score:5, Interesting)
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They do that at night with the liquor store and smashing the window in, but then they get caught and insurance pays for most of the damage.
This part is neither new, nor theoretical. There are places in the world where it is a real problem, and in the US it is mostly not. It happens, but there is a system in place to mitigate it.
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But.... you can't enter through an exit!?
I mean... that's like... you can't even... diodes, man! Diodes!
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Modern retail fire exits are one-way. Locked from the outside, push a handle to open it from the inside. Sure, a friend could open the door for you... but that person would then be on camera doing so (and an alarm goes off so everyone stares at you like WTF you doing?)
Re: Nice challenge! (Score:2)
Tolerable Shoplifting Rate - TSLR
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Last time I was in Switzerland there was a small convenience store run on the honor system. No staff, no cameras, just a lock box you dropped cash in when you bought something. They were still in business.
People rarely run out on restaurant bills even though its easy to do. Its quite possible that a lot of people understand that stealing stuff is bad.
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Yes but that was Switzerland. This is the USA we're talking about here.
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true, but its really rare for people to run out on restaurant checks here. Most people are pretty honest.
Re: Nice challenge! (Score:2)
Take it as a challenge? Amazon will thank you for providing edge cases to help harden their AI. I'm sure they expect to lose money on this approach for a few years while they gather extensive real world field testing. You're the product...
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The computer isn't going to be sitting there going, "awwww, shucks, how cute!" at your kids and being distracted. It is just going to count how many items they grabbed.
And probably charge you for some percent of the things your kids picked up and put back down, and it will be your responsibility to identify those items and request a refund, and then if the item is found during the next inventory to still be in the store, you get a refund, and if not, then a human reviews the camera footage of your trip to s
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I never shoplifted. I have no idea how people do it either. I mean, how strong do you have to be to lift a shop anyway?
ATM scare (Score:2, Insightful)
A couple decades ago when I was in middle school banks in our town installed a few ATMs and issued mag stripe cards to replace the paper wallet size account number slips. My dad and many others around me said it would be the end of banking as a profession and I should not go anywhere near the industry.
That end of employment fear was unfounded as is this one.
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Have you seen how many bank branches have closed down entirely? (...) Sucks to be a business with nowhere to deposit your takings.
That's been taken over by machines too, both notes [federalbank.co.in] and coins [cashyourcoin.com]. Those who have a big cash surplus tend to have a security company drive around and collect it rather than carry large amounts of cash to the bank though. Though most businesses around here actually hand out more money than they take in, people get money by electronic deposit and those who let you pay by debit card also tend to let you do small cash withdrawals.
Re: ATM scare (Score:3)
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You clearly don't realize it, but it is entirely possible that the banking industry grew at the same time that productivity was increasing, and that the absolute number of jobs for bankers was going up even as the percentage of total jobs represented by bankers is going down, and that there has never been any sort of employment crisis in the industry through these changes.
I shopped at a conceptually similar place recently (Score:2)
I bought some things recently using a similar idea. At a Dallas hospital the vending machines have been replaced by what roughly like standard refrigerated display cases you'd see holding drinks at any convenience store. Chips and such were in a similar-looking case, just not refrigerated.
The customer taps their card or phone to open the case, then takes whatever they want. It detects if you take an item and then put it back. Especially if you wanted more than one item, it was more convenient than a stand
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hoping the bag of pretzels will drop as intended
It's the 21st century, we're sending robots to Mars and probes to asteroids, cancer has gone from "death sentence" to "usually well treatable", and paper jams in printers have become exceedingly rare, but the solution to this problem still eludes us.
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If I had an uncle like that, I'd give him a box of Alpha-Bits at Christmas and a can of Alpha-getti for his birthday.
What happens when (Score:2)
as so often happens, I pick something up, walk around for a while, then put it down somewhere else, picking something up from there? If their system can't handle that - with 100% reliability - it's not ready for the real world. Because that happens all the time in real retail stores.
Re:What happens when (Score:4, Insightful)
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Please don't do that. It takes several man-hours each day in a large retail store to find, collect, and put back all the items that are left in wrong spots by customers. Time that'd be better spent cleaning up the store or stocking that thing you're out of and need and it's not on the shelf but somewhere in the backroom and NO we can't find it for you in the stack of 1,000 vaguely labeled boxes.
Hand the item to the cashier so they can have it put back right away (if it's refrigerated/frozen) or collected in
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There should no way that a person would get charged for an item they didn't leave the store with.
What if they drop and break the item? There are many stores that make people pay for breakages, though supermarkets tend to be very lenient in this respect. This is because their goods are of relatively low value and it's worth the loss to maintain goodwill.
Leaving frozen and refrigerated goods randomly on the wrong shelves destroys their value. It's worse than accidental breakage because it's mostly intentional, lazy, selfish behaviour. Stores mostly have to discard such items due to regulations and fo
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Good way to get chargebacks in sufficient number to cause higher transaction fees. At least.
Note to self: (Score:2)
... the tracking is precise enough to distinguish between multiple people ... overhead cameras work with weight sensors in the shelves to precisely track which items they pick up ... The system also knows when people pick up items and put them back, ...
Do not shop for condoms at the Amazon Go store.
On the other hand... With Alexa snooping on you at home as well, perhaps she can help ensure you buy the right size - next time.
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There next to no size difference between over-the-counter condoms in the US, despite what the packaging promises. An "XL" condom is only 56mm wide compared to 53mm for the regular.
The manufacturers can't deviate much from the allowed standards, or they won't be allowed OTC status. The only reason there is a difference at all is because the production tolerances are now smaller so they can make a condom that's 56 +- 1mm where they earlier made 53 +- 4mm, and still stay within the 57 mm max width. Similar
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They're elastic enough to be used as socks, so that's not a problem. It's those with smaller genitals that have a problem that OTC condom sizes don't cater to.
But at least stores like this might help with the awkwardness some may feel when presenting a cashier with a pack of "extra snug", even though it won't help much with them falling off.
Taking our jobs, or not (Score:2)
> criticized by grocery-store workers' unions, which feared an effort to automate the work done by cashiers, the second-most-common job in the U.S.
This is an excellent example of where the "robots are taking our jobs" mantra is misguided and targeted at the wrong change. If the concern is really about cashiers' work, then the most significant replacement has already been implemented many years ago: self-checkout kiosks. In fact, the ones in the US have already become old fashioned and bulky compared to t
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Not sure why everyone is so negative about this (Score:2)
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When my grocery store added self-checkout kiosks, they fired so many people that lines are even longer now.
Build it, and they can't come. (Score:2)
The idea is to "push the boundaries of computer vision and machine learning" to create an "effortless experience for customers"...
Customers? Oh, you mean all the workers you put in the unemployment line with this "vision" of the future? Those customers?
They say automation is unavoidable. We'll see if the concept of Eat the Rich is too.
23 seconds? (Score:2)
FTFA :-
In my first test of Amazon Go this past week, my elapsed time in the store was exactly 23 seconds
WTF did he buy? Sometimes it takes me 5 minutes to find just one particular item in my supermarket. Even though I use the same place every week, they are always moving stuff around according to season, or it seems at the whim of the manager.
Will close within the first month (Score:2)
Indiana Jones solution (Score:2)
I picture a thief sitting standing in front of a store shelf with a bag of sand in one hand, and a bag of cookies in the other.
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If he knows the weight of the bag of cookies plus packaging down to the milligram, and can do the switch in less than the polling time (probably 0.001 second) of the weight sensor, he deserves it. Also he should really get back to Vegas to do his next magic act.
I will love this.. once it works reliably (Score:2)
Until then, they should respond "above and beyond the call of duty" when customers report failures
Methinks there will be LOTS of failures
If they take the typical corporate attitude, and ignore or argue with the customers, instead of taking a detailed bug report..they will fuck themselves
No more privacy (Score:3)
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You're free to buy hygiene and alcohol products elsewhere. That said, if you buy a case of beer every week or every month, it doesn't say anything about you because you might be taking them to parties or sharing them with roommates/friends. If you buy a stick of deodorant every week or every 6 months would anyone care? If you buy a box of tampons every month would anyone be surprised? Now, if you're buying cases of Backdoor brand condoms, maybe you'd want to not have to bring that up to the counter and hand
how easy will it be fooled (Score:2)
bring back your empty packages, replace with new, filled ones on the shelf.
will the AI decide - oh, they put it back, no charge?
prepare to find stores full of empty packages!
and what about those 2 people still working there? checking an id and saying hello to people? those are the 2 things they couldn't figure out how to replace?
Putting stuff back on wrong shelves? (Score:2)
Ok, say someone picks up a can of beer, then a can of Coke, then puts the can of Coke back on the beer shelf (assume same weight of full cans). Now:
1. Does the customer pay Coke prices for beer?
2. Are there robots which will then retrieve the Coke and put it back on the correct shelf?
Re:Hmm, I don't have the money for this (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Hmm, I don't have the money for this (Score:4, Funny)
Not really. I've identified myself as Bill, because he keeps forgetting his phone on his desk.
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"But I happened to bring in a block that weighs the same as this item I'm too broke to get. Decisions decisions."
You know it doesn't work, Dr. Jones.
Beware the giant boulder.
Re:Hmm, I don't have the money for this (Score:5, Funny)
Get a skill and earn some money.
OK: "Alexa, how many bags of dried beans weigh precisely the same as a 750ml bottle of Courvoisier?"
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OK: "Alexa, how many bags of dried beans weigh precisely the same as a 750ml bottle of Courvoisier?"
Buy one first, go home, weigh it, prepare bean bag, return for another. BOGOF.
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Re:Hmm, I don't have the money for this (Score:4, Funny)
Sorry, skills such as running a cash register are no longer needed. Please proceed to the starvation line to your left.
Exactly. It is well known that automation causes poverty. Economists call this "the productivity catastrophe". That is why America, Europe, and Japan are mired in misery, while countries that have wisely avoided the "efficiency trap" such as Somalia, Ethiopia, and Afghanistan, are doing so well.
Re:Thanks, $15 minimum wage! (Score:5, Insightful)
You seem to think this situation was avoidable. It was not. The higher minimum wage only made it happen faster.
I don't think it even makes it faster (Score:3)
Re: Thanks, $15 minimum wage! (Score:2)
UB quality of life. We need to give all people the real right to food and shelter and Internet.
I am afraid giving just money will create Mansa problem
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You seem to think this situation was avoidable. It was not. The higher minimum wage only made it happen faster.
Absolutely... and speed of change is exactly what we don't want. It takes time for people to adapt. Automation is going to displace a lot of people, so it's important that the changeover happen as slowly as possible, to minimize the pain. High minimum wages are a bad idea.
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Yes, it was going to happen. Why? Because having to check out is a bad user experience.
I do not want to wait in line at the store. I also do not want to wait for the waitress to bring my check, take my card, and bring back my check?
Does this mean that people must go unemployed? Not really the staff can be used to keep the shelves stocked, the store clean, and help customers find products.
As to complaints that the minimum wage is not enough to raise a family? You are right it is not and was never meant to be
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Some dollar stores (Dollarama in Quebec) have now replaced most of their cashiers with automatic cashiers, and those stores are really not in the B2B market. Between online shopping and machines, there won't be many retail employees 15 years from now.
Worse, self-driving cars will probably kill most of the remaining retail stores anyway. People will order their milk and bread online, a robot in a warehouse will put it in the delivery car, and the customer will get it at his door. Walmart killed a lot of reta
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The simple fact is that increasing the minimum wage is a huge boon to businesses like restaurants and small local stores.
A business like a national brand "dollar store" is going to automate first, because they're the biggest and have the lowest potential losses. The maximum amount you can steal from them is much lower, they don't need it to work as well, and they're big. So they can adopt it first.
Are customers going to pay to go to a restaurant that is just a vending machine with tables next to it? Those h
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How are the customers responding?
Here in BC, my grocery store introduced some self-checkouts. After they'd been in a bit, usage seems to have dropped off to close to zero. Now they've upgraded them and they don't even take cash anymore, which doesn't seem like a good idea at Dollarama.
What my grocery store has done, which seems successful, is have all tellers open at the busy times and advertise the fact. It's nice being able to go through the lineup quick, unlike the last time I went to a Dollarama with it
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Publix is the same except they never did have any self service isles. Publix is a great store and has been for decades. You walk up to any employee and ask them where something is and more often than not they stop what they are doing and walk you right to it.
When you go in if any cashers are not checking someone out they are standing right at the front of the checkout isle looking for people to check out.
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From what I've seen, most customers seem to accept them. In the case of the Dollarama I go from time to time, I'd say customers don't have much of a choice anyway. It's either waiting in line for the one remaining cashier (there were four cashiers before), or going to one of the eight automatic cashiers. Of course, the machines Dollarama installed accept cash, including coins.
If I look at the Maxi (a grocery store) near where I live, the technology was slow to be adopted by customers, but it's now been two
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Yes, lack of options will push the new tech.
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The business morons always make this type of prediction./quote>
No, no it's all the Socialists fault, because:
Their lack of understanding about the true nature of economics means that their policies will always be pushed too far, and will eventually destroy the economy that is hosting these socialists.
It must be true because some idiot A/C believes all the far right propaganda.
Re: Thanks, $15 minimum wage! (Score:4, Insightful)
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Slavery is expensive. Have to feed, house, give medical care and such to the slaves, not to mention the hassle of stopping them from running away. Much cheaper to pay them a pittance and bitch that they're poor.
Re: Thanks, $15 minimum wage! (Score:5, Insightful)
1. They are not working for free.
2. Raising the wage increases the motivation to automate.
3. Why all the fuss? Do you us ATMs and online banking? Do you know how many tellers you have put out of work?
When automation actually provides a better user experience it is going to happen.
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I never said that this is what needs to happen, but as you say with greed being the major factor, we both know this is what will happen.
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Increasing wages, decreasing automation costs and the companies love of money made it possible. Since greed is eternal, the only variables at play are the wages and the automation costs.
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We have record-setting levels of employment (here in California the unemployment level is the 40 years of the current tracking methodology), and we're getting rid of the horrible jobs no sane person wants to do. How anybody can think that's not great news is beyond me. I was originally against the minimum wage increase because I thought it was unnecessarily high and would increase unemployment and inflation, but it has clearly proved a success: here we are somehow with the poor getting more pay, near zero u
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Those pushing so hard for $15 minimum wage don't seem to realize this, but they've been instrumental in introducing economic distortions that won't just make full automation more economically attractive, but that will make full automation economically mandatory for any business that wants to survive. Socialists are always their own worst enemy. Their lack of understanding about the true nature of economics means that their policies will always be pushed too far, and will eventually destroy the economy that is hosting these socialists.
That doesn't make sense. This kind of automation and grocery store hasn't reduced the amount that our country produces. If anything it's made it produce more efficiently. There's more wealth. The problem remains, as always, how that wealth should be apportioned. Some people (maybe including you) believe the way to apportion that wealth is to have a bunch of poor people work degrading jobs that aren't quite enough for them to get by, and they also must depend upon taxpayer-funded handouts for essentials.
Is t
Linear thinking habits are at fault here (Score:2)
Most people are generally terrible at dealing with / anticipating non-linear change. Those who can are often able to remain far ahead of the curve. But they're relatively rare.
And this change... this change is unlike any other that preceded it. That's why you see so many deniers claiming this wave of automation is essentially just like previous "no more buggywhips" events.
They simply can't open their minds far enough to see
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Re: Yea its so great to eliminate jobs (Score:2)
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Not going to happen and if it does guess what?
It will be hoards of followers being exploited by some charismatic leader. The would end up being worse off than before.
See Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Hitler for reference.
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That's because they didn't make a movie based on the book Player Piano by Kurt Vonnegut... yet!
Re: Won't work in Darktown. (Score:2)
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posting to revert mod misclick...
I suspect this is true and on the road to success it will have some rough patches where it commits lots of fraud and falsely charges people for reasons that nobody can provide a valid explanation for. :)
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Damn, I don't have one of those... Oh, I know! I'll order one from Amazon!
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Who identified themselves withthe gorillas?
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I'm not sure it's just for tracking. Most of Amazon really seems to be geared up for impulse buying. No need to think about how much money is in your wallet, not need to spend time checking out, just push a button. There's seriously heavy handed and tricky marketing to get people to sign up for Prime. The easier it is for people to buy stuff, the more money Amazon makes. The speed bumps on the way to buying stuff actually helps the consumer, especially today when so many people live beyond their means.
O
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