China Raises Tariffs on US Imports To 125% (nytimes.com) 318
China responded to President Trump's tariffs on Friday, raising its own tariffs on American goods to 125%, from 84%. The New York Times: The announcement by China's State Council came after Trump administration officials clarified on Thursday that China was now facing a minimum tariff rate of 145% on all exports to United States. China said its new tariffs will take effect on Saturday. China said it plans to ignore any further increases announced by Washington from here. Bloomberg: In a statement following China's retaliatory move, the Commerce Ministry said Washington's repeated use of excessively high tariffs has become little more than a numbers game -- economically meaningless and revealing its use of tariffs as a tool for bullying and coercion. "It's become a joke," the ministry said. CNN: The trade war between the world's two economic superpowers has tanked international markets and fueled fears of a global recession.
"There are no winners in a trade war, and going against the world will only lead to self-isolation," [Chinese leader] Xi Jinping told Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez in Beijing on Friday, according to state broadcaster CCTV.
"For over 70 years, China's development has relied on self-reliance and hard work -- never on handouts from others, and it is not afraid of any unjust suppression," Xi added.
"There are no winners in a trade war, and going against the world will only lead to self-isolation," [Chinese leader] Xi Jinping told Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez in Beijing on Friday, according to state broadcaster CCTV.
"For over 70 years, China's development has relied on self-reliance and hard work -- never on handouts from others, and it is not afraid of any unjust suppression," Xi added.
Pissing contest (Score:4, Insightful)
Seems two dictators are having a pissing contest.
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Seems like we have one dictator who started bullying the world, and the other is just responding - and the response has so far been quite measured.
We also saw the one who started it deflate and fold already when faced with consequences [alternet.org] two days ago.
He'll deflate and fold here as well.
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He has to capitulate before the bond markets cause some serious problems.
But let's be honest here. Some of us kinda want to see how far Cheeto Hitler will go with his game of chicken. Because it's a once in a century moron who would do this, and sometimes you just want to see if the moron will capitulate or congress/senate will do it for him.
Re:Pissing contest (Score:5, Insightful)
I understand the sentiment, but it would be better for everyone if we don't go too deep.
Last time the USA fucked with tariffs it destroyed the weak democracies in Japan, Germany and Italy and then we had a nice little war.
I'm not very confident the world would survive the next one.
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It is not credible to state that Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act [wikipedia.org] was one of the causes of WW2.
Right, it just made the great depression a lot longer and a lot deeper. So like, almost no effect at all.
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This is historical revisionism motivated by politics, and not a view supported by historians. It is not credible to state that Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act [wikipedia.org] was one of the causes of WW2. More so, the fall of Weimar Republic [wikipedia.org] was due to reparations imposed at the end of WW1 and not US tariffs.
Yep. The only "contribution" America made to the rise of Hitler was that the US went into a depression and couldn't bail out Weimar with constant loans anymore. They were left on their own to the mercies of the French who squeezed them ever harder after the depression spread across the West. The Treaty of Versailles practically handed Germany to Hitler.
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"More so, the fall of Weimar Republic [wikipedia.org] was due to reparations imposed at the end of WW1 and not US tariffs."
The tariffs helped shut down world trade and cratered the world's economies, which basically left Germany with no way to pay those reparations.
Sorry, it's a direct contributing factor.
Re:Pissing contest (Score:5, Informative)
Exactly. As as this article relates [marketwatch.com], people were selling bonds en mass. As a result, yields were soaring and there were vastly more sellers than buyers. From the article:
Hedge funds that had anticipated looser regulation would lift stocks found themselves forced to unwind their positions when stocks fell instead. Funds that were routinely making highly leveraged trades involving Treasuries and Treasury futures had to exit the market. Swap spreadsâ"the difference between the price of those assets and their derivativesâ"widened abruptly. That indicated a deterioration in liquidity; suddenly, the market had only sellers. Those conditions have previously led the Federal Reserve, under other circumstances, to intervene to add liquidity.
. . .
The fallout from the episode may not pass that easily. A bond investor who deals regularly with the Treasury Department said that, behind the scenes, it wasnâ(TM)t clear the administration was in control of the situation. He worries about lasting damage to confidence in the U.S. financial system. âoeThereâ(TM)s a skeleton crew at Treasury,â he said, speaking anonymously to preserve his job and his relationship with the administration.
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Just fold? More like making an origami turd.
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Yes, blame the messenger because you don't like the news. Helps every time :)
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Yes, blame the messenger because you don't like the news. Helps every time :)
Isn't it odd how some people think that claiming something is wrong because they don't like the source? This trade war is unfolding exactly as I thought it would.
Tariffs do nothing but increase prices.
People who think they work forget that their nation is not the only nation. So in this widely connected world, Other nations will happily place their own tariffs if a country tries to assert dominance.
So in the end, if this stupidity on our part continues, Americans will pay more for goods, and Amer
Re:Pissing contest (Score:5, Insightful)
The dumbest part of all this is that the trump administration is single-handedly destroying a world trade system that the US has spent decades to build, and which has enormously benefited the US, in a situation where the US can hardly afford another "Nixon shock".
I mean, talk about shooting yourself in the groin...
Re:Pissing contest (Score:5, Insightful)
The dumbest part of all this is that the trump administration is single-handedly destroying a world trade system that the US has spent decades to build, and which has enormously benefited the US, in a situation where the US can hardly afford another "Nixon shock".
I mean, talk about shooting yourself in the groin...
Especially as, according to The Economist magazine, the U.S. economy was "The envy of the World" when trump took it over from Biden -- and not the worst in history, as Trump continually lies. Trump says the economy ‘went to hell’ under Biden. The opposite is true [theguardian.com]
Google: trump says biden economy worst [google.com]
Re:Pissing contest (Score:5, Insightful)
More than that, if you piss off other countries sufficiently, there is nothing stopping them from banding together to fuck you over to a massive degree.
Trump just told the world what his Achilles heel is: the US Treasury market. Someone started unloading Treasury notes at a rapid pace and he spun on his heel in a complete about-face. I wouldn't be surprised if the "phone call from Japan looking for a deal" went a little like this:
"Hello Mr. President. We're calling to tell you that if you don't back down on these tariffs, we're going to start unloading our massive stockpile of US Treasury notes, and that's going to make your next debt auction VERY expensive. This is going to happen, and consider it a warning shot because we already have China and the UK on board to unload their billions worth too."
Then they fired that warning shot, and he immediately caved because every single economic advisor he has, even through their sheer incompetence, knows that if Treasury yields rise sufficiently, that means no tax cuts without even more insane debt no matter what the hell he does with tariffs and spending.
The world has looked to US Treasury debt as a safe harbor in challenging economic times for almost 100 years, and that single fact is responsible for why the US Dollar is the world's reserve currency. And Japan has the ability to threaten that - and I think that's exactly what they did behind closed doors.
Economic decoupling contest (Score:3)
Why feed the trolls? You just get dragged down to their level.
A number of pretty good jokes in the large discussion, but so far haven't found much about the main point, which is why China can stop now and just wait for the YOB to realize he's lost. Actually, the Chinese don't really care if he ever figures it out, because the current situation means that every other country in the world now has a 50% price advantage in seeking Chinese customers. Good for China and all the other countries except the YOB king
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From the consumer of the drivel from trufsoshal, OAN, Roe Jogan and Alex Jones that's kinda rich, but go on :)
Re:Pissing contest (Score:4, Insightful)
As usual just days ago Trump said he “will never back down”.
Re:Pissing contest (Score:4, Interesting)
For one, I read that China has about $650B (or is it $800B) of US treasuries, and was talking about dumping some. You want a US liquidity crisis, for real?
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no the hell he didn't.
Sure, Jan, he didn't. He just postponed his decision until a later time. But he'll show 'em who's the boss, guaranteed.
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I'm my case one leader said he wants to invade and take over my country and rule it directly by any means necessary. The other seems to want to control it indirectly by selling me everything and dominating the economy, but historically has had no interest in directly subjugating other cultures due to their xenophobic views of the world and desire for racial and cultural homogeneity. At this point I didn't know what's worse. Being squeezed between dictatorial powers isn't fun.
Re: Pissing contest (Score:5, Interesting)
For most of my life the choice was between the US and the USSR. There was no issue siding with the US, it was the obvious choice.
The same will be true with China. By my standards they're an awful nation and I'm glad I'm not one of their citizens, but I'd still rather visit China than the US right now. I have zero trouble saying that if I have to choose between trade with the US and trade with China... it's China, hands down.
Most of my issues with China are within their borders and not really my problem. The US is exporting its troubles and threating sovereign nations - one of which I live in.
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If you had to choose would you prefer to live under Trump or Xi?
Maybe use that to determine your loyalties on this issue.
They seem pretty similar already and Trump keeps moving in Xi's direction. The thing that's different in the U.S. (for now anyway) is not Trump but the Federal Courts -- and potentially Congress, if the Republicans there ever stop fear-worshiping Trump, do their jobs, and honor their oath to the Constitution and Country, over whatever they've pledged to Trump.
No love for the orange clown, but much better than my family being sent to a prison camp in Xinjiang
No, it'll be El Salvador -- his administrations has already said they're considering deporting U.S. citizens to there.
White House Press Sec Says [truthout.org]
Re: Pissing contest (Score:5, Insightful)
Considering some of the legal arguments being made before the Supreme Court, your family may get sent to a prison camp in El Salvador instead.
The Department of Justice lawyer actually was arguing that as long as they rendition you outside the airspace of the US fast enough before a federal judge says anything about it, then that's just too bad and there's nothing they'll do about it to get you back for your due process rights.
There is nothing about that argument that is dependent upon citizenship, and the "test case" here was an individual with protected status where a judge had already registered a court order saying this person SHOULD NOT be deported. Please think about that.
Re:Pissing contest (Score:4, Informative)
Throughout history many dictators have been elected initially. And many of them do act with approval of many/most citizens. Even in many democratic countries, the leader is essentially an elected dictator with near unlimited power until the next election. Moreso now than in the past. Democracies can be manipulated and subverted. Given that the constitution is now considerably weakened, and the checks on presidential power are also weakened, anything is now possible. You should worry greatly about what a future president will do now that trump has thrown out all the norms and old values.
Re:Pissing contest (Score:5, Informative)
The definition of a "dictator" isn't "someone who was elected undemocratically".
A dictator is someone who uses the power of the state undemocratically, who rules by decree, disregards the law, upsets the system of checks and balances, uses the administration to attack political opponents and independent critics and harass the people who the dictator thinks don't "support" him.
But you knew that already, I guess.
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The title of dictator comes from the Roman office into which a man was appointed to head the republic in emergencies. The dictator had extraordinary emergency powers that overrode the normal system of governance. The position was supposed to be time-limited but many dictators overstayed their term.
Sound familiar? Trump declared the US to be in an emergency and has been exercising emergency powers based on that. He's even talking about not relinquishing power as required at the end of his term.
Re:Pissing contest (Score:4, Interesting)
Trump is not the first political leader to find out that you fuck with the bond market at your peril. Well, maybe not Trump, because I doubt he has the cognitive capacity to even really understand what happened at all. Needless to say, some of those who whisper in his ear suddenly realized they were about to do untold damage.
Elaborating on that, from Fox Business no less... China's trade war weapons: Rare earth ban and US debt dump could cripple American economy and defense [foxbusiness.com]
China holds $761 billion in U.S. debt, making it the second-largest foreign holder after Japan. A mass sell-off could drive down the value of U.S. bonds and cause yields to spike, sharply increasing borrowing costs for the federal government. It could also weaken the U.S. dollar and send shock waves through global financial markets.
Beyond treasuries, China could further devalue the yuan — a tactic it has used repeatedly — to make its exports more competitive while pricing American goods out of its domestic market.
And that's ignoring the extensive consequences of them halting rare-earths to the U.S., also described in that article.
Re:Pissing contest (Score:5, Insightful)
The number is symbolic at this point, it is the comment along the number what is the main point of China's actions, the whole has become a joke. The childish abusive wannabe emperor has made himself the clown of a reality show of jokes.
And if you think that the "numbers" of tariffs is the game, you are delusional.
The game is on US debt. China (together with Japan) are actually putting a little bit of pressure on this matter by selling the once precious US debt that investors are now running from.
It seems to be the thing that it is really making the childish narcissist very scared because you can be all rich you wanna be but if the currency in which you are rich is worth nothing or the system where the currency is available ceases to exist... you have just toilet paper.
The danger of debt (Score:5, Insightful)
The game is on US debt.
100% this. Trump backtracked because the interest rate on US Treasuries spiked Monday and Wednesday this week [marketwatch.com]. The world is losing trust in US T-Bills, and if it does, and starts selling a critical mass of them, American debt will be worthless, its currency will be worthless, and all hell will break loose.
America's biggest mistake this decade has been taking the world's faith in its currency for granted.
Re:The danger of debt (Score:4, Informative)
Wait... didn't Trump explicitly want to weaken the US dollar to make exports more competitive on the world market?
https://www.morningstar.com/ne... [morningstar.com]
" By picking J.D. Vance as his running mate, former President Donald Trump has sent an unmistakable signal that, should he return to the White House in January, weakening the U.S. dollar would be a policy priority.
Both men have expressed skepticism about the economic benefits of a strong dollar. Instead, they see it as an obstacle to a revival of U.S. manufacturing, which has become central to both of their political identities. "
Re:The danger of debt (Score:5, Insightful)
He talks from both sides of his mouth, he wants all the benefits from a strong dollar but wants to export like a weak dollar and that's because he doesn't actually understand those terms. He says strong dollar because it has the word strong in it, no more complicated than that.
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There was a rumor floating around that China may have sold some of its stockpile of Treasurys, sort of a sampler of the kind economic war it was capable of fighting. So there is at least a few adults left in the room with Trump, or possibly Congress sent coded messages that all loyalty ends where the bond market begins.
Re:The danger of debt (Score:5, Informative)
America's biggest mistake this decade has been taking the world's faith in its currency for granted.
America's biggest mistake has been putting a corrupt and incompetent idiot in control of their government.
Re:Pissing contest (Score:5, Funny)
Probably we should be thankful that a dictator is actually confronting an idiotic bullied spoiled child
Which one is the dictator, and which one is the spoiled child?
“The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.” --Orwell, Animal Farm
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I don't see how you can describe Xi as a "spoiled child". He's clearly a clever, calculating man, and while his methods are sometimes horrendous, he does generally act in the best interests of the Chinese people, as he sees them. Like it or not, life for most people in China has been rapidly improving under Xi.
There is an existential threat to democracy here. It's failed in the US and some other places, and if China now becomes the biggest economy, the adult in the room when it comes to international relati
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>I don't see how you can describe Xi as a "spoiled child".
Uuh.. no.
When you react to a being likened to a likable cartoon charater by banning everything arounbd it.. that is pretty childish,
> He's clearly a clever, calculating man, and while his methods are sometimes horrendous, he does generally act in the best interests of the Chinese people, as he sees them. Like it or not, life for most people in China has been rapidly improving under Xi.
They did get better during early parts of his reign, as the
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Probably we should be thankful that a dictator is actually confronting an idiotic bullied spoiled child and showing to the world how to do things with this level of narcissism and ignorance.
The number is symbolic at this point, it is the comment along the number what is the main point of China's actions, the whole has become a joke. The childish abusive wannabe emperor has made himself the clown of a reality show of jokes.
And if you think that the "numbers" of tariffs is the game, you are delusional.
The game is on US debt. China (together with Japan) are actually putting a little bit of pressure on this matter by selling the once precious US debt that investors are now running from.
It seems to be the thing that it is really making the childish narcissist very scared because you can be all rich you wanna be but if the currency in which you are rich is worth nothing or the system where the currency is available ceases to exist... you have just toilet paper.
Democratic nations are also fighting back, but using a scalpel rather than the "random shotgun firing" approach of Trump. The EU passed sweeping tariffs meant to target red states but not to punish EU citizens, the EU, like the rest of the world has a choice to get what they get from the US from other nations and likewise with selling what they produce. The US is making itself a pariah to everyone so they've no options if the world doesn't want to buy what they sell.
Surprisingly, the biggest competitors
Re: Pissing contest (Score:2)
If you find yourself on the side of China in an issue, you might want to examine your politics
I know itâ(TM)s trendy for the left to hate on Trump, but consider what youâ(TM)re actually supporting when you think China is the âgood guyâ(TM) in a situation
Re: Pissing contest (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't have to believe that either side is "a good guy".
In this particular area, China is acting more reasonable and moderate, and just about everybody knows that.
That's not correct (Score:2, Insightful)
The way you said it it sounds like both sides cause this mess when it's really just Trump's mess. Our economies are two interlinked to start trade wars anymore. Christ they were probably too interlinked by the 1930s let alone after the last 50 years of non-stop free trade.
Never mind the fact that Trump's own treasury secr
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The difference between what you state, and easily observed reality, is that you don't understand that we're standing in a circular firing squad.
Yes, China will hurt over the tariffs. But what do you think happens to the US Economy if China unloads their ~$800B of US Treasury notes and spikes yields? You think the next Treasury bill auction is going to go well in a flooded market where there aren't any buyers? You think that's not going to result in a sharp rise in budget deficits as we have to pay more i
On the plus side.. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:On the plus side.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Fooled you (of course you were joshing), but in order to prevent a good portion of U.S. farmers from going out of business, the Fed. Gov. will have to give them agricultural subsidies. Guess where the money will come from? They went from $4 Billion at the beginning of la Presidenta's first term to $20 Billion at the end. And this time around, they will cost nearly $40 Billion (inflation, bigger cuts by China, and other countries). That will increase the national debt because la Presidenta has no economics training and is basically untrainable. His Treasury Secretary, Scott Bessent, puffed that, more or less, who cares what China's tariff's will do to U.S. agriculture.
All this kerfuffle is only making every nation that la Presidenta is in an economic war with (hint: all of them) to start putting their money into safer assets (Swiss franc, etc.) That's what spiked the bond market earlier in the week. One doesn't hear much about the bond market, but the Treasury Dept. uses the bond market to fund U.S. debt. The yield is the percentage return buyers demand in order to hold Treasury notes. It is the yield that spiked and it caused la Presidenta and his sycophants to collectively shout, "Holy Shit!". So la Presidenta pulled back a bit, yet we still have 10% tariffs across all imports, more for China and certain sectors for Canada and Mexico.
The Treasuries yield spiking means the cost of credit in the U.S. goes up, say, for cars, houses, etc. Worse for la Presidenta and the U.S., the flight to other currencies weakens the dollar and makes it less attractive as a reserve currency. So la Presidenta is slowly weaning the rest of the world off the dollar as the reserve currency. That means the U.S. is retreating from world trade, so no international clout. The rest of the world is now asking why they need the U.S. if this is the way it is going to act. Worse, it means that companies in the U.S. will have to pay more for credit, thus depressing their ability invest in U.S. manufacturing....exactly the opposite outcome la Presidenta stupidly thinks he going to increase.
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By "most farmers" do you mean the independent farmers or the megacorporations who've bought out most independent farmers?
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It is very possible the USA will dissolve, with a number of states just joining with Canada rather than trying to go it alone. There is already a small effort for California to leave the USA, but just looking at independence. If a group of 10 states tried it, California would definitely go as well. Without the "blue" states, the rest of the USA is a fairly low income place that has zero interest in improving things.
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As a Canadian, I don't even want the most progressive of US states in Confederation. I find even US progressives, save perhaps at the extreme end like Bernie Sanders, to be far too conservative. Canada really is largely pretty happy with what we have, and even when we were sort of soft-offered the Turks and Caicos, we just aren't an expansionist power.
The US is going to have to sort its own shit out. Frankly, if you guys had any damned wits, you'd get rid of the Presidential system entirely. It really does
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I'm thinking that it would be better to be a part of Canada at this point, because trying to go it alone invites Trumpdy Dumpty to use the power of the military against a single state that might try to get away from the nonsense. I'm also a progressive, not a liberal, and I like your politicians better than the ones we have here in the USA. I just don't like the cold and snow, which would still be better than living in Trumps America.
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It is very possible the USA will dissolve
What? No it isn't. Those "small movements" are nothing but social media memes.
There is no realistic movement towards this because there is no realistic path to this. States don't have the right to secede and any reasonable person with any education whatsoever doesn't want a another civil war given the results of the last one.
Insider tipline (Score:2, Funny)
I sure hope Trump calls and gives me a heads up like last time before he announces dropping tariffs. Standing back and standing to buy more call options at a moments notice.
Re:Insider tipline (Score:5, Funny)
News for finance nerds, trading stuff that craters.
China should have the upper hand here, (Score:2)
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> take the more reasonable approach of buttering up little Donnie and let him have one of his pet-"deals" (e.g. saying that he won without any consequences).
That doesn't work. When Donnie thinks he's won, he starts another round to win more. He doesn't stop until he's stopped.
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Trudeau tried to do it, and it didn't work. Starmer has been trying to butter up Trump for a couple of months now, and it hasn't worked.
Trump has decided tariffs are the best thing ever, and nothing is going to change his mind. Now clearly, someone did manage to get him to change course after the bond market spiked on Monday, though who that was is a bit of a mystery. But all in all, with Trump 2.0, even mores than Trump 1.0, what he seems to want is utter capitulation; he gets to tariff whomever he wants,
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Trump is senile (Score:4, Insightful)
Can someone please take away the keys from grandpa before he crashes this economy into a brick wall?
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Too late, the USA has already crashed into the wall, but now, we just have to see how much of the front end gets compacted in the accident.
Re:Trump is senile (Score:5, Insightful)
Republicans could at any time.
Canadians are right this time (Score:2)
I wouldn't be putting any tariffs on anyone, just do what Canadians did - don't buy their stuff.
French imposed ban on le BÅ"uf from ze english during/after mad cow days. The whole of UK started buying Highland Spring instead of Evian (I myself prefer Thames Water). Le BÅ"uf ban lifted rather quickly. Result.
So Canadians stopped buying Jack Daniels, Trump pauses tariffs on canada. Maybe chinese should stop buying teslas? Oh wait, they don't, they have far better local options.
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Arguably the tariffs don't mean much (because oil & potash are the big ones and we have traitors ensuring Donnie doesn't get hurt on those very much).
You know what DOES? The fact that Canadians are starting to consider it a traitorous act to purchase American products while there is any alternative they can afford.
I'd also mention the travel thing, but with Americans 'disappearing' people off the streets or locking them up for weeks in inhumane conditions if they don't like them at the border... avoidi
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What's really insane is the conservatives see what's happening and... double down. They don't have the numbers to make that strategy work like it did in the US. It's just driving people away from them.
The conservative running for Prime Minister does nothing but claim the Liberals destroyed Canada, avoid getting his security clearance like staying ignorant is something a top-level politician should even consider, and have carefully limited and curated contact with the press. Meanwhile, the current Prime
The destination is already set (Score:5, Insightful)
It doesn't matter now, no matter what Trump does, the American economy is fucked.
Everyone in the world who has even the slightest economic connection to the US is now very well aware that Trump's policies change randomly and you cannot trust him to keep his word for more than a few minutes.
Everyone in the world who follows the news knows Trump is engaging in blatant market manipulation, destroying the domestic American economy in order to steal a fraction of it for himself (and certain allies). The rule of law in the US is dead to the point he's freely crowing about this in the news and nothing's happening.
Trump could order everything back to the way it was before he took office, and super-duper swear it would stay that way until the end of his term, at which point he would peacefully leave office and cooperate with a transition team regardless of who won. It doesn't matter, because the trust is GONE.
Nobody sane is going to invest billions within the borders of a nation being run like the US is being run. Every country that trades with the US is looking to GTFO and move that economic activity to somewhere more stable. The only thing up in the air right now is how quickly that occurs and whether the inevitable violence will be internal or if Trump starts a war of conquest to distract from the internal chaos.
Personally, I'm hoping the 'blue' states manage to secede and form one or more sane, stable countries while the reds get the white Christian hellholes they so clearly desire. Just don't forget to hang the billionaires who worked so hard to put this all in motion, alright?
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Re:The destination is already set (Score:5, Funny)
I can tell you this - Canada is not likely to help invade Canada.
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I can tell you this - Canada is not likely to help invade Canada.
I wouldn't be so certain of that. Alberta, an oil-rich province, is actively considering leaving Canada [www.cbc.ca]. Likewise, Quebec is also considering leaving [financialpost.com]. While I do not wish for any of this, it is possible that Canada would dissolve and some parts of it join US.
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Alberta's odd. Yeah, they're our Texas, but with Trump in office there is nothing like the required support to do anything other than interfere with a fully unified response to Trump's tariff war and annexation threats. I have a glimmer of hope that the Alberta premier is at the end of her political career.
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I can tell you this - Canada is not likely to help invade Canada.
On the other hand, that sounds like the most Canadian thing ever.
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Even Starmer has had to back away from total capitulation. He had floated emasculating the Online Safety Act in one way or another so as to not overly piss off the US tech giants, and his own party poo-pooed that pretty quick. I think Starmer is trying to thread the needle, but I think for the average Briton, the Special Relationship is now dead.
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States that break away wouldn't need to join Canada, nor would they be welcomed by most Canadians to do so. The populations are too large and would instantly destroy Canada culturally, politically, and even economically.
They don't need us anyway; there's nothing stopping them from deciding they like some things that Canada does and copying them as they found a new nation while keeping whatever they already have and prefer.
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While your narrative has a kernel of truth in it - big attraction of investing into US was its stability - you miss the point that there is still no alternative. Are you going to invest into China? They will force "partnership", steal your IP, and then confiscate your business. Are you going to invest into EU? Perhaps, but you can't manufacture anything there due to Net Zero and astronomical energy costs. Plus, Brussels l
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Hahaha, what would you weak brains do if you didn't have your deluded caricature of California to bash? Face reality? Boy, that would be uncomfortable for you at this point.
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In the US, both liberals and conservatives occasionally talk about seceding. Not a chance in hell. In the US, very few cities are red, and very few rural areas are blue. If the reds secede they would lose all the cities and the country would be swiss cheese. If the blues secede they will wind with a bunch of islands.
Before anyone says "Texas could be it's own conservative country".... sure, but only if they if they give up Dallas, Austin, Houston, San
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It doesn't work that way. Regions with populations sufficiently afraid of remaining within the US will try to get out, and rural populations that are at odds with the cities will either cave, move, or die. People are rarely calm and rational when they've been pushed far enough they've had to resort to violence that has been unnatural for them their entire lives - they'll be pissed and downright murderous.
So yes, I would expect blue states to try and secede, and I would expect it won't be pretty.
There are no winners in a trade war? (Score:2)
There are no winners in a trade war? There are winners. The winners are those countries who don't participate.
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There is no such thing as "don't participate" in the global economy.
My country was going somewhat well. But we got the 10% baseline tariff, didn't make any moves and we're now suffering a lot because oil and mineral prices are going down (fear of a global recession) and investors are running to things like gold and the Euro. Our stocks crashed and our currency greatly devaluated in just a few days.
China's gonna win this one (Score:4, Interesting)
Chinese citizens essentially cannot complain about government policy. Plus, there's a lot of anti-US sentiment in China, so Chinese citizens are even a bit motivated to support this policy, even if they suffer economically, as they will. And because they have no real say, if the government wants them to suffer to pursue geopolitical goals... they'll just suffer. The Chinese Communist Party doesn't answer to the people.
Americans (for now) can still complain about government policy. They don't feel like their nation is under serious threat. And they'll see massive price increases that are caused by a policy that simply inflates the ego of a pretty chaotic and clownish administration. So American citizens will not accept anywhere near the level of suffering Chinese citizens will.
The Trump regime will back down.
Re:Yay (Score:5, Insightful)
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Those who pay attention know this, and see it as yet more evidence that Donald Trump is clueless about how business actually works. That's what happens when daddy pays off schools to give high grades to his kid, but the kid is too stupid to know he is stupid.
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China's exports to the USA account for just 2% of their GDP.
This is deeply misleading. US is about 15% of all Chinese exports, with some industries, like consumer electronics are at 20%+. See How Dependent is China on U.S. Trade? [visualcapitalist.com]
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With paying so much more for everything, and many small businesses shutting down from the cost increases that come with tariffs, I'm expecting that you will be the one crying about inflation and how the stock market crash has cost you your retirement accounts.
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America is a superpower because we have engaged in free trade and have exercised huge amounts of soft power across the world and has taken the mantle of hegemon and leader of our alliances.
America without those things and even a very optimistic 20% increase in manufacturing means a much weaker and less influential America on the world stage. You will be leaving your children a hobbled and weaker nation.
You can't it both ways, you can't make America "independent" (whatever that means) and a superpower but n
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If China dumped its storehouse of Treasurys, the US bond market would collapse, the interest on government debt would go through the roof and the financial system would teeter on the edge of ruin. I've long said China wouldn't do it because the collateral damage, and in particular the blowback on the Chinese economy would be monumental, but since Trump has picked the fight and rapidly escalated it, China's economic nuclear option, which the Monday yield spike may have been a bit of the hat, may now be a rat
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If China dumped its storehouse of Treasurys, the US bond market would collapse
Only if US chose to do nothing about it. If you recall, US controls currency these are issued in and can always print money to buy them. Sure, this will cause inflation spike and market volatility, but THAT is far from doomsday scenario you are hyperventilating about.
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Particularly since we've managed to piss off the entire world these last few months so we can't count on the help that once would have come naturally in normal times from our allies.
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You act as if China holds a gun to Americans heads and forces them to buy cheap shit.
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That's an ingesting good question, unfortunately, I think you're wrong. Global supply chains are very complex, and a lot of stuff comes from or through China. Pharmaceuticals are one I was reading about yesterday, but also lots of electronics, ETC.
So, yes, there are lots of Chinese imports that I wouldn't miss at all...but I've NO confidence that I know about all the ones I would.
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Republicans six months ago: Biden’s economy is terrible and ruining the country.
Republicans today: Losing money is a good thing and builds character.
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Re:meaningless (Score:4, Informative)
Recent exports total roughly $143.5 billion [axios.com] which would still be roughly 7% of all U.S. exports. Hardly a meaningless amount.
The good thing is Texas and Louisiana will be hit the hardest with these tariffs. Texas has seen large growth in exports to China over the past decade so they have the most to lose.