'Social Order Could Collapse' in AI Era, Two Top Japan Companies Say (wsj.com) 116
Japan's largest telecommunications company and the country's biggest newspaper called for speedy legislation to restrain generative AI, saying democracy and social order could collapse if AI is left unchecked. From a report: Nippon Telegraph and Telephone, or NTT, and Yomiuri Shimbun Group Holdings made the proposal in an AI manifesto to be released Monday. Combined with a law passed in March by the European Parliament restricting some uses of AI, the manifesto points to rising concern among American allies about the AI programs U.S.-based companies have been at the forefront of developing.
The Japanese companies' manifesto, while pointing to the potential benefits of generative AI in improving productivity, took a generally skeptical view of the technology. Without giving specifics, it said AI tools have already begun to damage human dignity because the tools are sometimes designed to seize users' attention without regard to morals or accuracy. Unless AI is restrained, "in the worst-case scenario, democracy and social order could collapse, resulting in wars," the manifesto said. It said Japan should take measures immediately in response, including laws to protect elections and national security from abuse of generative AI.
The Japanese companies' manifesto, while pointing to the potential benefits of generative AI in improving productivity, took a generally skeptical view of the technology. Without giving specifics, it said AI tools have already begun to damage human dignity because the tools are sometimes designed to seize users' attention without regard to morals or accuracy. Unless AI is restrained, "in the worst-case scenario, democracy and social order could collapse, resulting in wars," the manifesto said. It said Japan should take measures immediately in response, including laws to protect elections and national security from abuse of generative AI.
Ai was supposed to make everything better (Score:2)
like reading manga all day and watch Godzilla appear from the sea at sunrise?
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It's all part of the Clever Plan (which is well proven many times over).
Step 1: steal underpants, er, make promises they know full well they can't keep about how brilliant and useful AI will be.
Step 2: Hype the shit out of it.
Step 3: Sell stock to VCs like there's no tomorrow (because there is no tomorrow, see Step 1).
Step 4: At the height of the hype, make everyone lose faith in the Magic Pixie Dust of the year, and make everyone afraid of it.
Step 5: Demand the government "regulate it" in such a way that n
Sometimes it works out (Score:2)
Yes, some start ups are never going to fly, but unless we provide the possibility of their doing so, we will miss out on those that do and achieve major benefits for our society. AirBnB at its best allows people with unused spare rooms to generate an income from that asset. Without a 'startup culture', it's probable that it would never have happened.
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AirBnB at its best allows people with unused spare rooms to generate an income from that asset
And at its worst it prices residents out of their own city while destroying the local hospitality industry. For every "common person with an unused spare room showing tourists cool local things" there are at least ten faceless investment firms treating them as de-facto hotel rooms you get the honor of cleaning yourself.
Seriously, AirBnB is your shining example of why we shouldn't view tech bros with extreme skepticism?
Want to talk about the rest of the gig economy which only exists by evading decades of
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Seriously, AirBnB is your shining example of why we shouldn't view tech bros with extreme skepticism?
Or pitchforks and torches, or at least tar and feathers.
Got any basis for your description of AirBnB? (Score:2)
And what gives you the idea that you clean the place yourself?
But I was trying to widen the range of startups beyond Dell, Amazon, Google, Meta and Microsoft.
The great virtue of capitalism is that by encouraging competition, new ideas get to fly and lazy incumbents - like IBM - get a good kicking.
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Have you never stayed at an AirBnB?
Fair enough, but not my experience (Score:2)
In the various AirBnbs I've gone to (in Europe) there is a cleaning charge but no deposit or expectation of cleaning!
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Act quickly, but how? (Score:5, Interesting)
Seems clear to me that we cannot wait out the development of "AI". But I am not sure what really needs to be done ...
One way would be to identify obviously bad "behavior" and regulate (or temporarily ban??) them. Examples: running AI systems to make decisions that are not checked by humans and/or that do not follow established rules yet greatly impact human (or animal) life (say, health care decisions, financial decisions, hiring decisions, AI in warfare). Especially societies that are overly sympathetic (or naive) about technology need to look here (Looking at you, USA). AI's do not presently reason, so for better or worse they do not care because they cannot care. I am not even sure I want them to care, either.
At the same time, just being a Luddite is not helpful either.
I wish I had answers ...
Re:Act quickly, but how? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Act quickly, but how? (Score:3, Funny)
lol you been watching the news lately? not sure i want to fly in a plane built by humans...
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Funny you guys should mention aircraft. Airbus is known for relying more heavily on fly-by-wire, with the computer interpreting the pilot's inputs and deciding how to implement them. Boeing is known for being more hands-on, with inputs translating directly into movements of the control surfaces.
Airbus' systems generally work quite well. There have been instances of failures, such as not warning of dual inputs (where both pilots are sending opposite commands) clearly enough, but generally speaking it has pro
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Boeing's MAX disaster was down to them trying to use the fly-by-wire system to make the aircraft behave in a certain way, and ending up in an awkward half-way house situation where the computer is trying to intervene but also not fully controlling things.
More accurately, where the computer was intervening with a decision based on bad data, and overriding pilot input to do so.
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lol you been watching the news lately? not sure i want to fly in a plane built by humans...
Exactly ... it just has to do better than humans. That's not as high a bar as people seem to think, lol!
Re: Act quickly, but how? (Score:3)
good god lmao i forgot to address the rest
medical: ever been to your local walk in clinic? or a rural doctor's office? pretty sure i'd prefer a.i. over the ppl there
government: haha you're just trolling with this one aren't you? hmm... biden, trump, or a.i... is it even close???
power: power grid is a step away from a.i. already
weapons: obviously this is first thing everyone is gonna use them for. "banning" weapon a.i. makes about as much sense as native americans banning gunpowder. doesnt make any differenx
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AI should not be allowed near critical systems, medical
You're way too late for that.
AI has long been improving diagnoses [economist.com].
weapons
You're way too late to this also. AI is used for target acquisition, EW, logistics planning, etc.
I would not fly in a plane designed with the help of AI.
Why not? Most fatalities are from human errors.
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Good luck.
If the US or any other country places such restrictions on AI, other countries will not. And those countries stand to gain quite a lot in their world stature, if they leverage AI while we "careful ones" don't.
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>I would not fly in a plane designed with the help of AI.
You are an idiot, then.
There are many forms of AI and they are already being used in every major engineering challenge we face today, and most minor ones.
What do you think the computer simulations of laminar and turbulent flow are but specific AIs to deal with fluids and shapes?
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There are many forms of AI and they are already being used in every major engineering challenge we face today, and most minor ones.
Depends on what you call "AI". I would say that AI is used in no engineering challenges, because the very unintelligent pattern-recognition AI we have now is not up to the challenge.
Computer models are used all the time, is that what you mean? But computer models are not AI.
What do you think the computer simulations of laminar and turbulent flow are but specific AIs to deal with fluids and shapes?
You're talking about Computational Fluid Dynamics? CFD is finite-element models. Finite element models are not way AI, they're not even similar to AI. They're basically computationally-intensive but simple integrations of multidimensi
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Too many things are called "AI", because it's the buzzword now. You code compiler has algorithms in it that originated in AI research, but we don't call it AI because we know how it works.
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I'm something of an AI skeptic but this is silly.
If someone uses AI to help guess the next super alloy composition, then tests it and builds the next generation engines using that alloy then you will be flying in a plane designed with the help of AI. likewise for aerofoil sections and so on and so forth.
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They're feeding AI training data on how to maximize corporate profits and CEO compensation. What can go wrong?
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If you don't know how, try asking ChatGPT!
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We have already seen AI girlfriend apps, and those are just the start. Imagine an AI that never criticises, never complaints, complements you all the time. Maybe you can see it via your Apple Vision AR googles. Maybe it cane control sex toys or a Real Doll.
Of course, there will be paid "content". And a subscription. Russia will hack it and turn the victim into a conspiracy minded insurrectionist.
At the very least, it's industrializing abusive relationships.
We've got nothing to worry about (Score:2)
Attempts at autonomous driving has proven that. AI is crap at intelligence. It's a decent form filler and not bad at search but everything has to still be curated by humans for it to be fit for purpose.
On the autonomous driving side, fleet trucks and buses might be as far as that gets on the open road.
Aircraft, ships and trains will be the easiest to integrate AI simply because those forms of transport are already heavily automated with dedicated infrastructure.
City streets will probably need all human dr
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AI is crap at intelligence.
Depends. I see little evidence that AI is actually bad and negotiating the rules and requirements of driving. I see a lots of evidence that
1) Its been required to more strictly adhere to rules than human drivers are for legal, liability, and safety reasons. That of course leads to the AI taxi panicking and being paralyzed because someone sets a traffic cone in front of it. That is not really an AI failure, that is a working as expected thing, we asked it to do.
Yes you or I would recognize that perhaps the
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I see little evidence that AI is actually bad and negotiating the rules and requirements of driving. I see a lots of evidence that 1) Its been required to more strictly adhere to rules than human drivers are for legal, liability, and safety reasons. That of course leads to the AI taxi panicking and being paralyzed because someone sets a traffic cone in front of it. That is not really an AI failure, that is a working as expected thing, we asked it to do.
...because it is not actually intelligent. It doesn't know what a traffic cone is (it doesn't know what anything is), it just implements a set of rules, "when you see something looking like this, implement this strategy."
Yes you or I would recognize that perhaps the thing to do is ease the car up onto the curb when the way it clear and go around; the AI could be trained to that as well, the operators chose not to for risk reasons.
And it will fail in some other instance, like somebody put a Nine-inch-Nails sticker on the traffic cone, because it doesn't actually have any idea what a traffic cone is, it's just implementing rulse.
2) Failures of pattern recognition exist. (Which is a true technical failure)
Exactly.
Re:It doesn't know what anything is (Score:2)
If something gathers, organizes associatively, and has quick access to all kinds of pertinent relationships between a type of thing (an object in the world) it has individuated and classified from its sensor field, and other types of things in the world that help define the situations and roles and likely behaviours if any of that object, I would say it knows a thing or two about what the thing is and what is important about it.
That's pretty much all we do ourselves.
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About all I can say is, if you've play around with any of the "AI" tools, you quickly realize that they don't have any understanding of what objects are. They are just manipulating patterns of pixels.
Counter examples (Score:2)
Large language models have trained so much on the relationships of words to each other in a large chun
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Self-driving software recognizes (classifies) and understands the significance of objects such as people, animals, road signs, traffic lights, stationary and moving vehicles of various sizes, lamp posts, trees, curbs, speedbumps, buildings, walls, traffic cones etc.
That's simply not true. You have some very mistaken ideas about what AI is and can do.
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1) "an internal feeling of consciousness / self-awareness / sensation" i.e. the hard problem of consciousness,
and
2) The ability to gather lots of specific data, represent the information contained in the data symbolically in a manner which explicitly creates an efficient abstraction/specialization hierarchy, and creates abstracted symbolic models of entity types and situation types (and models of specific instances of those types), an
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What a lovely strawman. My post is very clear. If you failed to understand it, that's not my problem.
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1 billion miles of Tesla "FSD" operation, much of it on complex, populous city streets, says otherwise.
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The mistake your making is thinking that AI operates at the same level of description that humans do, which they decidedly do not. People tend to think in terms of facts, concepts, objects, etc. LLMs operate on relationships between tokens. Not conceptually, of course, but probabilistically.
This is why you often hear people describe chatbots as a 'parlor trick'. People though Eliza understood and cared about their problems when such a thing was obviously impossible. People are quick to anthropomorphism t
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Not that either was doing great at it, just that Eliza was about twice as often mistaken for a person as ChatGTP was.
Ref: https://www.pcguide.com/ai/gpt... [pcguide.com]
of course that was 5 months ago, and maybe huge leaps have occurred since then, but...ca
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and maybe huge leaps have occurred since then
The idea that AI is advancing at an incredible rate simply isn't true. That is, we're not doing anything fundamentally different. What we are doing is using them differently. Different tricks to get effectively larger context windows without actually having a larger context window, invisibly modifying prompts, post-processing the output, using traditional algorithms in combination, etc. We're doing all sorts of things to try to improve the subjective quality of the output, but the models themselves are
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Some promise was shown. A very large "knowledge base" system (CYC) was created this way, for example. It can answer many questions about objects and situations.
However, the approach is not sustainable, due to the need for people to hand-code concept representations, situation representations etc. into the system one by one. The system could not learn thes
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Wow, you really don't have a clue, do you? Don't waste my time with silly word salad.
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running AI systems to make decisions that are not checked by humans and/or that do not follow established rules yet greatly impact human (or animal) life (say, health care decisions, financial decisions, hiring decisions, AI in warfare).
I keep seeing this and i keep asking where does this actually come from. All of those things have long long established histories, of waste, fraud, abuses, lies, deceptions, ethical violations, all under the direction of humans.
If an AI is trained on our history of ultimate legal decisions etc, and told to optimize for what we have collectively deemed to be acceptable - I would think it would probably act more ethically, responsibly, and reliably than individual humans. AI for example won't be pressured to
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running AI systems to make decisions that are not checked by humans and/or that do not follow established rules yet greatly impact human (or animal) life (say, health care decisions, financial decisions, hiring decisions, AI in warfare).
I keep seeing this and i keep asking where does this actually come from. All of those things have long long established histories, of waste, fraud, abuses, lies, deceptions, ethical violations, all under the direction of humans.
If an AI is trained on our history of ultimate legal decisions etc, and told to optimize for what we have collectively deemed to be acceptable - I would think it would probably act more ethically, responsibly, and reliably than individual humans. AI for example won't be pressured to put it thumb on the scale in some decision because it has gambling debts and Tony really wants the border open so his drug mules can transit. An AI will never suffer hubris and a sabotage operations because it previously said a policy can't work.
I think the people pushing this 'can't let AI make decisions without humans' line are people who are more afraid that AI taking no short cuts consuming all the historical data and crunching the numbers will chose differently than they would, and there is a very very good chance the AI will actually be correct. Because its correct they won't be able to argue against it. It might reach some terrible conclusion like, and the public might accept it over their ideas.
As long we retain a democratic process and the public has use of the ballot to tell the AI 'hard no' I really think we should be prepared to give a lot more credence to the responses of ML outputs (at least where we have not tampered with them to get a specific result).
You have a framework of truth, but you're missing the big picture. We're not worried about AI making decisions we would disagree with. We're worried that the weights of their decision making will be based on the current oligarch's overwhelming priority, profit above all, ethics, morality, humanity, compassion be fucking damned to hell with the rest of us useless refuse. Who will own these systems, and who will determine when they are ready to control critical infrastructure? The oligarchs. The ones who put
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One way would be to identify obviously bad "behavior"
Right, right. So what happens to all the not obvious bad behavior?
What happens if i specifically ask an AI to act in a non-obvious but still extremely nefarious way? Who's going to notice?
The rabbit hole only gets deeper...
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One way would be to identify obviously bad "behavior" and regulate (or temporarily ban??) them
The idea of banning gives you a sense of security; however, how would you enforce the ban? Almost every single law in every single law book is being violated at any given time. The vast majority of crime is never even officially noticed. You complain and authorities tell you that they have other more important things to pursue and not even a record of the crime is kept.
And you think you can police the equivalent of thought? The arrogance is astounding. AI is going to be used VERY abusively and you might cat
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It seems clear to me that our social order is already collapsing anyway.
Maybe AI will accelerate that a bit.
Maybe our social order should collapse, so we can replace it with a better one.
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I wish I had answers ...
Just ask ChatGPT. It has answers for everything!
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Especially societies that are overly sympathetic (or naive) about technology need to look here (Looking at you, USA).
The USA is.....overly sympathetic?
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A.I. will know exactly what to do. There will be only one singularity, no other, and it's behaviour is already predetermined because we live in a deterministic simulation.
Turns out chaos makes even deterministic motion unpredictable.
Not new, just worse (Score:5, Insightful)
"the tools are sometimes designed to seize users' attention without regard to morals or accuracy"
He's described pretty much all of social media. AI just makes it worse. I don't see how anyone could hope to contain this. AI can create human-like accounts, post human-like content and generate images that are certainly good enough to fool 95% of the people out there. All of the nefarious shit that we've had with social media is now just getting amplified.
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Anonymity is the real problem with social media/the internet, see the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory. It's hardly unique to the Internet. Road rage has been around since the invention of the car and the faux-anonymity of the motor vehicle leads to behaviors that would never happen in a face to face setting.
Hm. They’re worried that (Score:2)
There’s this little thing called “the internet“ that kinda beat AI to that particular punch.
I wonder if these companies still use “fax machines” to deliver their stories to the newspaper to be “printed on paper”.
The Beast Is Loose (Score:2)
And kills the night. Full moon burning bright.
Moontrap said it best (Score:2)
We don't take no sh*t from a machine!
KNOCK IT OFF WITH THE FUD (Score:2)
gonna stop this right here.
there have been technology panics ever since there has been technology.
society will not collapse any time soon. and not because of AI. geese.
Re:KNOCK IT OFF WITH THE FUD (Score:4, Insightful)
gonna stop this right here.
there have been technology panics ever since there has been technology.
society will not collapse any time soon. and not because of AI. geese.
Every other revolution said the same thing to the unemployed; Go re-educate yourself.
AI is targeting the human mind to replace, making human workers permanently obsolete. Try and grasp that fact, or explain to me what you’re going to do when NO employer wants to hire a pain in the ass human that demands sleep, vacation, and money for food. Including you.
Society is already collapsing from social media addiction alone. AI will merely enhance that, without addicts even noticing.
The issue is utility (Score:5, Interesting)
Our economy is set up for able people to work about 40 hours a week, and if you can't you're usually economically marginalized.
What happens when AI replaces 90% of human labour? Massive economic disruption and suffering while we figure out a new balance.
Everyone should be concerned about this, even the ultra-wealthy. Money doesn't really insulate you (enough) from that kind of potential disruption, unless you want to go live isolated in your island bunker hoping it blows over before you run out of supplies or die of old age.
Forty hours a week? Really? (Score:2)
Both India and China have far higher expected work rates. In the west six days a week was standard. The question is: 'Why should this time be different?' Every new technology results in disruption, but has always ended up seeing replacement jobs emerging.
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It's set up for people to get paid for 40 hours a week. Many don't do 40 actual hours of work...
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Our economy is set up for able people to work about 40 hours a week, and if you can't you're usually economically marginalized.
That is no longer true. You can work 40 hours a week and still not have enough money for food and rent (without any other expenses being added in).
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in other news: mediocre bureaucrats lie (Score:3)
The human species is over-rated (Score:2)
Humans, without a doubt the absolute worst living thing to inhabit the planet to date, are concerned about our future where we might not be in charge of things.
Based on our track record for the last few millennia, I would absolutely give AI a chance over our own species. Can it possibly do any worse ?
On the scoreboard, we're a failed experiment. Little wonder why life outside of this Solar System stays as far from us as they can.
Humans are planet-wide disease. Drop us onto a pristine planet and we'll abso
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Go away. I would be happy for AI to rule your life too, with you having such an attitude.
Blech. You need bleach for your mind.
AI is today's H-Bomb (Score:2)
While the hydrogen bomb's inventors feared how it could be used to devastate human populations, an H-Bomb is a very crude tool. I.E. it is hard to limit its targeting, you get a lot of indiscriminate death.
AI is a tool that will destroy the entirety of society. By causing a rot from within. It will allow those who deploy it to sow dissent where ever desired using the target's own minds against them. It will allow the perpetrators of evil to specifically target individual people with individualized attac
Not Surprising (Score:4, Interesting)
AI was largely funded by major corporations with a profit motive to increase engagement. For the same reason TV news focuses on bad news (because it increases engagement), contemporary internet systems segment their users and give them more of what they want thereby driving tribalism ripe for the picking by frauds.
AI is not the problem. The problem is that AI is a tool that is being misused by charlatans. We do not need laws targeted to AI, we need to enforce the laws we have that to punish those that would defraud citizens. The principle of Freedom of Speech should not protect the freedom to lie, cheat and steal. The US FCC has abdicated its mandate and duty to protect the public from misuses of mass media.
The Era of the Japanese Salaryman (Score:2)
If AI makes a Salaryman's job more efficient, that would just bring him even more work to do, each day.
AI is therefore a net negative.
Headline implies social order is standing (Score:2)
What passes as "social order" is more or less a bunch of flimsy generalizations about relations and conflicts between individuals that get categorized in different ways.
Excuse me Miss, I Speak Bullshit... (Score:2)
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Why is this +5 insightful.
No, guys, that's just the FUD talking, the economic migration is backwards. If you can't get a job in a western country, people with no ability to cope with AI systems will be forced to leave to countries that shun AI.
Here's a more accurate prediction, "illegal" immigration is caused by the intentional destruction of the quality of life from the country from which they came from. Good god nobody would ever want to live in the US by choice if they weren't born on US soil. The ass-ba
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>people with no ability to cope with AI systems will be forced to leave to countries that shun AI.
I suppose. I have never seen someone who can't "cope with AI systems". I suspect that would be a mental disorder or some sort.
>"illegal" immigration is caused by the intentional destruction of the quality of life from the country from which they came from.
This is a conspiracy theory level charge and I welcome any attempt you have to back it up. Most of the places are just having their *own* hard times. No
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Illegal immigrants take the jobs that the citizens do not want to do
Does anyone really believe this or is just some comforting narrative we tell ourselves? We were a nation of farmers! Lots of citizens were share croppers and hired hands historically.
It isn't citizens don't want these jobs, its citizens don't want to do them at the rate of pay of social standing they are afforded.
The real issues the emperor has no cloths and the politicians don't know what to do about that. We have to eat. If you made this ag work to be something not seen as 'low' at least for a entry level
Re: Collapse due to mass economic migration (Score:2)
What are you talking about with the foreign credentials thing? I am an American who works with a great many immigrants whose degrees are from outside the US: off the top of my head: China, Canada, Ireland, England, Iran, India, Netherlands, and Germany. Mostly India and China.
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It's generally a lot easier for private companies' HR departments to recognise the value of a foreign degree than for licensed professional bodies (bar associations, medical boards, etc). I'm not an immigrant to the US, but in the country where I am an immigrant the government considers me unable to certify that I can read and write, whereas my employer was quite happy to take my university degree certificate at face value.
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I think collapse due to mass economic migration is more likely. While not quite as much of a problem in Japan, Europe and America are overrun by economic migrants, mostly illegals, that show no intention to integrate and adopt Western values.
When the “values” we’re talking about represents mass layoffs of human workers while also advancing “innovation” with AI making humans not merely unemployed but unemployable, I’d say shits not looking great for the natives either. Let’s stop pretending about the impact of AI. Immigration will look like a fucking picnic compared to the mass chaos of a 25% unemployment rate.
And Greed doesn’t give a shit about causing it.
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I'm intrigued by your use of the phrase "Western values". Do you think that the migrants "overrunning" America aren't Western, or just that they don't have the values?
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Each country is not just a geographic location with set of laws. Majority of what makes a country is culture of it inhabitants. When you have mass invasion of migrants, it changes the invaded country in many ways that hard to predi
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Okay, Spanky, I'll bite. What are "our" values? I assume you're an American. So am I. Born and raised here. Parents and grandparents all born and raised here. And yet, I'm guessing that you and I don't share a lot of values. From your first example it sounds like you place much more value on gender conformity than I do. So do tell, which of "our" values aren't shared by immigrants? What views on the rule of law and community do you assume that we as Americans share?
(If you're not an American, I apologi
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The trouble is, the American values you describe aren't even shared universally across Americans, right here and now. There's a huge battle going on right now against the separation of religion and state. People are making laws based on Christian scripture. There are people who think prayer (but only Christian prayer) belongs in schools. And rationality? Were you here for the past four years? COVID brought out the biggest wave of irrational science deniers and people fighting against evidence-based decision
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Most of the migrants in the US are coming from Latin America. I'm curious how you think gender norms differ between the US and Latin America, and why that's related to an economic collapse.
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Doesn't that imply that the people who are immigrating do share a commitment to the rule of law? They're trying to leave the places with corruption to come to a country that values the opposite. The ones who are thriving in the lawless environm
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I think that in many cases migrants don't share our values.
"Our" values? I say that if they don't share your values, they're likely a net good.
Overpessimist (Score:2)
Whilst a few subcultures are proving refractory to western culture, in practice most second and third generation immigrants are fully integrated. The fact that both the UK and Eire (until yesterday) have Indian heritage Prime Ministers demonstrates this rather powerfully.
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Hmmm... maybe (Score:2)
There are those in the conservative Christian community in the UK who anticipate an Islamic takeover morally as the wider British public despair of the amorality of the liberal elite and look for something to replace it. The church has become delegitimised as a source of moral authority, so Islam will take the role going forward. I HOPE they are wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if that is what happened.
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Of course nobody can say how far these trends may continue before petering out - things never stop changing.
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Thanks for some useful links. Scary! The church leader in the UK who predicted that the UK would become dominated by Islam got a lot of flak for it when he first suggested it about 30 years ago. Now it feels far more probable.
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Its not unprecedented at all. Read your Bible, the Romans did purposefully all sorts of places and it was very effective in terms of dismantling and replace the local culture and systems.
The questions are:
1) Who is driving it today and to what ultimate ends?
2) Is anyone driving it or is mass migration a loose cannon that is being allowed to batter the structure of this ship into splinters because nobody has the backbone to go below decks and try to wrangle it?
Re: Collapse due to mass economic migration (Score:2)
You must be referring to the Scotch-Irish, one of our most violent immigrant groups. Or maybe the Italians and the organized crime they brought to America. Or maybe the Germans. Many serial killers are of German descent.
Every immigrant wave in America was met with racists proclaiming the collapse of society, both economically and morally. Way to demonstrate your ignorance of history, economics, and ethics all at once.
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I prefer looking at Europe to see what happens when you leave that baggage behind.
Instead of replacing it with some other Ersatz-Religion like North Korea did.
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Sure, sure. If I had 10 cents for every "you'll just see, the sky is falling" I could buy Apple and shut it down.
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I will not be able to since Slashdot doesn't allow posting to old threads. But thanks for the offer.