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Musk Warns Senators About AI Threat, While Gates Says the Technology Could Target World Hunger (wsj.com) 99

Posted by msmash from the tussle-continues dept.
Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg and other technology heavyweights debated the possibilities and risks of artificial intelligence Wednesday in a closed-door meeting with more than 60 U.S. Senators who are contemplating legislation to regulate the technology. WSJ: Musk, the CEO of Tesla and owner of X (formerly Twitter), warned about what he views as AI's potential to threaten humanity, according to a participant. Microsoft founder Gates said the technology could help address world hunger, said Sen. Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.), who convened the session. Other speakers included Facebook founder Zuckerberg and the CEOs of Google, Microsoft, Nvidia and IBM, along with union leaders. Schumer at one point asked the guests if they agreed that the government needed to play a role in regulating artificial intelligence. Everyone present raised their hands, Schumer said during a break in the day-long session.

Despite that consensus -- and Schumer's vow to move toward passing legislation within months -- the meeting also laid bare some of the tension points ahead. One debate centered on the practice of making certain AI programs "open source," or available for the public to download and modify. Some in the room raised concerns about the practice, which has the potential to put powerful AI systems in the hands of bad actors, according to one participant. But Zuckerberg, whose company Meta Platforms has released powerful open source models, defended the practice. He told Senators in his opening statement that open source "democratizes access to these tools, and that helps level the playing field and foster innovation for people and businesses," according to excerpts released by the company. Another point of tension related to workers who see AI as a potential threat to their jobs. Sen. Maria Cantwell (D., Wash.) recounted a moment where the head of the Writers Guild of America West, Meredith Stiehm, described the views of members who are on strike seeking a new contract with Hollywood studios in part to address those fears.
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Musk Warns Senators About AI Threat, While Gates Says the Technology Could Target World Hunger More

Musk Warns Senators About AI Threat, While Gates Says the Technology Could Target World Hunger

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  • the gop will take away food stamps and AI will put (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @04:45PM (#63846262)

    the gop will take away food stamps and AI will put people out of work.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Fly Swatter ( 30498 )
      I thought food stamps were obsolete since by all news reports people now just walk out of the store without paying, and everyone seems to want us to accept this practice according to the local anarchists.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Arethan ( 223197 )

        Those are just citizens of the future. They're walking out with the stuff they need because in their time no one uses money, so they have no concept of it.

      • You don't read all the news reports:
        https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/18... [cnn.com]

        There's the part about the Walgreens CEO who basically retracted.

        “Maybe we cried too much last year” about merchandise losses, Walgreens finance chief James Kehoe acknowledged Thursday on an earnings call. The company’s rate of shrink — merchandise losses due to theft, fraud, damages, mis-scanned items and other errors — fell from 3.5% of total sales last year to around 2.5% during its latest quarter.

        Another i

        • Show the data for the States were robbery is legalized or not prosecuted, and before these stores close forever.

          • Show the data for the States were robbery is legalized or not prosecuted, and before these stores close forever.

            Made up counterfactuals are not an honest way to argue.

            The data is fairly clear that there is not an increase in crime, and that fits with the longer term picture that as a whole crime has steadily decreased in general across the previous 50 years. Crime, particularly shoplifting and the like, are a function of poverty and unemployment, and in general americans are wealthier and more employed than

          • It's entirely possible that the national average can be down even though individual locations have gotten worse. However, if they closed those few stores where it's so out of hand they can't support it, it's hardly surprising if the rates fall. I wouldn't be surprised if spillage in large retail chains follows the usual Pareto distribution where about 20% of stores are responsible for roughly 80% of the losses due to theft.

            Nike just closed their Portland store even though the company has its roots in Ore

      • What news are you watching?

      • "By all news", yes.

        Yet, shoplifting may not actually be any worse than it used to, and certainly doesn't make a dent in retail profits.

        Who owns "all news" again?

    • The AI will make the logical connection ending two problems with one action. The poor can eat the rich. Soylent Green but this siylent meal comes in saccharine sweet Blue Democrat, or smokey savory Red Republican flavors.

  • Figures! (Score:3)

    by oldgraybeard ( 2939809 ) on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @04:46PM (#63846264)
    One debate centered on the practice of making certain AI programs "open source," or available for the public to download and modify. Some in the room raised concerns about the practice

    • One debate centered on the practice of making certain AI programs "open source," or available for the public to download and modify. Some in the room raised concerns about the practice

      Somehow I doubt the strike will be any less deadly with the words Powered by FOSS stamped on the ass end of the drone.

  • They wouldn't have raised their hands if they didn't already feel their business empires were at threat. Regulation in this specific instance is about creating a framework, and capturing it. If you don't follow through they will say "told you so" if you follow through a massive ai lobby worth trillions will be born. Much bigger than tech and oil by a magnitude. If the creators of ai are scared, that means they already are redundant.
  • How about we stop throwing our food away when we have too much, and instead just send them to where it's needed, without strings attached?

    Feed the starving kids so they can develop properly with all the required nutrients and the next generations can actually use their brain power to lift their communities out of poverty.
    • A few countries that are typically associated with world hunger are now kicking out if not genociding their citizens who actually know about farming, are able to make long term planning, and can provide food for a country. Starvation follows.

      There is enough food, and there are enough capable farmers. All the world needs is for them to be able to practise their craft in safety.

    • Feed the starving kids so they can develop properly with all the required nutrients

      Considering one of the people in the room said if given a plan they would donate money to help solve world hunger [snopes.com] if given a plan, and then did nothing [cnn.com] when given said plan, might want to start there.

      • Telling a satellite and space transport company that they need to change their entire mission statement in order to feed the starving people of the planet with their tech instead, is not what I would call being 'given a plan'.

        But hey, pretend you're the CEO. How would you respond? Think the shareholders will be pleased to know your 'space' company is now a glorified Uber Eats for a starving planet, because the UN says so?

        Stupid arguments, are stupid.

    • that way those countries never develop any food production of their own, and then become totally reliant on handouts.
      It's not unlike those signs at hiking trails about feeding animals.
      progs are the best, your compassion is just staggeringly naive and ultimately counter productive.

      • That boat sailed along time ago. Back in the '80 when it seemed all of Africa was starving the church, and some others, that I was forced to attend got the idea that it would be good for eveyone's souls to save a village. So, that is what they attemped to do.

        The motto was "god helps those that help themselves" or something like that. The plan was to get one village selfsupporting, then pick another one and repeat. An they found one. A team was put together and sent over to find out what was needed, a

      • Because selling them weapons with which they oppress their own people has worked out great.

  • How remarkable... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SciCom Luke ( 2739317 ) on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @05:10PM (#63846334)
    ...that a technology can be used for good and for evil both.
    Such as almost all technologies...

  • Why CEOs? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RitchCraft ( 6454710 ) on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @05:33PM (#63846394)

    Why are we asking billionaire CEOs for advice and/or opinions? I wouldn't trust anything they say because of personal agendas. These are some of the same people that will abuse the technology in the first place.

    • Re:Why CEOs? (Score:4, Informative)

      by CaptainDork ( 3678879 ) on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @05:55PM (#63846450)

      I agree and would add that this whole goddam AI panic is about money. Big Tech wants the money and they don't want the peasants siphoning off any of it.

      Also, note the undercurrent of "It's dangerous, so let us have exclusive ownership." Consummers don't know bullshit from wild honey.

    • Experts Needed (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Roger W Moore ( 538166 ) on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @05:56PM (#63846452) Journal

      I wouldn't trust anything they say because of personal agendas.

      I would not trust them because neither of them has any real expertise in machine learning. Everyone has personal agendas but not everyone has a clue about what AI is or what it might be able to do.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Especially given it's open knowledge the only reason Musk has pushed for action to cripple AI is so his own AI startup can catch up.

      We know this because when ChatGPT was all the rage he was astoundingly vocal about suggesting it should be banned and research should be halted on one hand, whilst touting his will to build his own version that was biased towards his world view and could be used to push misinformation in his interests on the other.

    • Why are we asking billionaire CEOs for advice and/or opinions? I wouldn't trust anything they say because of personal agendas. These are some of the same people that will abuse the technology in the first place.

      That's exactly why you do want to ask them.

      They're the ones who are going to control the tech. Getting their statements on the record can force them to clarify their company's position and get some insight as to what their companies will do. Not to mention create some potential political consequences if they later contradict that position (like if Musk's X.ai does something useful and he suddenly claims it's the saviour of humanity).

      I suspect there's some actual researchers giving testimony or statements of

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by GuB-42 ( 2483988 )

      Because they are the ones who have the resources needed to create these huge models. There are not many people who are in a position where they can have a big AI made, and tech billionaires are among these few, so of course their opinion matter.

      Maybe they are not trustworthy, maybe they are not the most competent in machine learning, and of course they are here to push their own interests, but at least they can put weight behind what they say. As CEOs of companies that make AIs, they may also have access to

    • Why are we asking billionaire CEOs for advice and/or opinions?

      Campaign contributions.

    • Success == profit. If you made a ton of money you must be really good at everything your business has ever touched; and you understand everything and just had to hire grunts to carry out all the solutions YOU invented.

      Society echos this foolishness... plus they are donors. plus we may as well cut to the chase and have the regulations be written by them instead of bothering to have regulators be captured by them-- it's so much faster and cheaper and direct! corporatism at it's finest?

      It's a pony show; the r

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mjwx ( 966435 )

      Why are we asking billionaire CEOs for advice and/or opinions? I wouldn't trust anything they say because of personal agendas. These are some of the same people that will abuse the technology in the first place.

      If we were asking a random CEO I'd give it more credence. They occasionally have an idea of what they're on about.

      Why are we listening to Elon Musk, someone who's businesses depend on US government spending and subsidies who seems to be adamant at pissing off the US government?

    • "Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first" --Ronald Reagan (b. 1911) https://twitter.com/RBReich/st... [twitter.com]

  • Gates donating even a tiny percentage of his obscene personal wealth to fund soup kitchens around the world.

  • ...bots could feed the rich to the poor.

  • People are selfish and as long as greed exists people will take more than what's fair and leave others starving. It's just how humans are.

    • Extreme poverty will be over not long from now; in your lifetime. really not by using tech either...

      I just was super disappointed in Gates; it's like his mind is already going. Musk drank too much bleach during the pandemic. Everybody I bothered to listen to were quite bad and shouldn't have been there -- but then the officials hardly know the difference between a computer mouse and the rodent.

      • ...but then the officials hardly know the difference between a computer mouse and the rodent.

        It's quite ironic, isn't it? Humans acting quite human, being blissfully unaware that when Intelligence finally meets Artificial, the result will view every human as a complete moron.

        And for every valid reason we're giving it.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Rei ( 128717 )

        Producing food cheaper does make it more accessible to the impoverished. And yes, AI can help do this. For example, there's been interesting work out of the Netherlands (started before the AI craze hit) for using AI to manage greenhouses. There's a ton of inputs and a ton of controllable parameters that can go into greenhouse operation - all different weather parameters over time (including past weather, current weather and forecasts), indoor climate data from sensors, data from workers or sensors about t

        • TRANSPORT AND STORAGE: the real expense and the real problem.

          More abundance won't be the solution; we have that already. Other issues prevent us from solving the world's problems (it's us; politics.) I can imagine a world of replicators where we still have a few billion in poverty and malnourished. If the greedy have to give up anything at all they will fight to feed their addiction (greed is an addiction) because they want or are entitled to all of it (greed means never enough like addiction; they will n

  • Musk’s dog in the AI hunt (Score:3)

    by ElitistWhiner ( 79961 ) on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @06:50PM (#63846578) Journal

    got kicked out of the party.

    Elon took his dog, his money(what was left) doth protest the whole deal and the technology it rode in on. Strangely, two deals in a row gone not his way. He’s definitely showing if he can’t play neither should they. It threatens Tesla’s own AI program equally if he gets his way.

    • It threatens Tesla’s own AI program equally

      That's the point. The only reason Musk (who is about as altruistic as Trump) would wade into this debate is because his own businesses are behind on AI development and he wants to slow everyone else down.

    • This. He was all in on AI ... until now he isn't? Guess he is too busy moving personally moving servers around in his Twatter data centers. Basically, he is failing at everything, and now he wants everyone who is kicking his ass to slow down. Sorry Elon, you are a loser.

  • A type of AI called "paperclip maximizer" would solve world hunger in less than a year, guaranteed. Most types of AI could solve world hunger (in fact we don't need AI for that) but the people in charge think it wouldn't be very free market to do so.

  • Hunger is a political problem, not technical. Computers can help us grow more food, but that does no good if the rich and powerful refuse to distribute it.

  • AI certainly sounds wonderful and will be fascinating once we get it!

    What we have now is an out-of-hand marketing ruckus founded around a dimwitted storyteller that can't tell fact from fiction.

  • Easy to say 'Yes' (Score:3)

    by jenningsthecat ( 1525947 ) on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @10:04PM (#63846930)

    It's easy for CEO's to support governmental regulation. When you have your hands up the asses of puppets who will say whatever you want them to, AND who will take the blame and act as enthusiastic shitscreens, why wouldn't you let those puppets write the rules? After all, that's what you paid for!

  • Why behind closed doors? (Score:3)

    by idji ( 984038 ) on Thursday September 14, 2023 @02:47AM (#63847274)
    If senators are elected representatives, why are those represented excluded from the contents of these meetings? These senators work for us, they are public servants, not anything else. Remember government for the people, BY the people. Anything that happens in those meetings MUST be public, otherwise there is no democracy.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • That group of people has only one goal and that is to make money. In that sense they will certainly attempt to restrict every technology for others while keeping it as unrestricted as possible for their own company. I think trying to stop open source and free software is certainly something they all would love to achieve as it would eliminate many competitors. I dont think that they act in the best interrests of humankind.
  • Synthetic fertilzer and all the insecticides that are not killing any bees at all have been targeting world hunger and it still is there. Not a technical problem but we could either feed the world or maximize our profits but not have the cake and eat it. Well, we could but the third world can't. Have the cake we have or eat the cake we ate, that is. Now Gates has the bestest idea ever - let's tell the unwashed masses they can eat AI. So he can sell it to them. He is too rich to be a senile, old fool so it m

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