
Kaspersky Employees Say They Were Asked To Resign Because They Wanted To Leave Russia (vice.com) 88
Russia's invasion of Ukraine has indirectly hit the country's oligarchs through sanctions, as well as the country's top tech company Yandex, which saw its stock nosedive and whose deputy chief executive officer stepped down because of sanctions imposed by the European Union. But the war is also affecting employees of another Russian tech giant, and one of the most well known and respected antivirus makers: Kaspersky. From a report: In the wake of the invasion, at least two employees told Motherboard they asked to be relocated outside of Russia. A third source who still works at the company also told Motherboard that some Kaspersky employees were asked to resign after those employees asked to live and work somewhere else. Instead of accommodating them, the company asked them to resign, as the company's founder Eugene Kaspersky emphasized the importance of standing next to him during tough times, according to the two former employees, who did end up resigning. Kaspersky has several employees in different countries, working from one of the 35 offices in 31 countries that the company claims to have. In a regularly scheduled all hands meeting a few days after Russia invaded Ukraine, employees asked whether the company would consider relocation requests.
Ok....... so what? (Score:1, Insightful)
I mean, as an American, I know the media/press expects me to complain about how evil everything is that Russia does. But this seems pretty rational? If America was at war with some enemy nation and I ran a business here with employees asking to relocate in the enemy territory, I'd probably tell them it's time to resign too.
I'd expect a Russian headquartered company (especially one that probably has ties to the government) to support the idea of people sticking together there during times of war.
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That's hilarious. Wow -- people really are paranoid these days.
I have pretty much zero ties to anything Russia. (Well, I did meet a guy once, when I worked in the DC area, who decided he wanted to move to Russia.)
I just see the stupidity of people in America thinking we're winning something by funneling tons of money to the Ukraine.
Re:Ok....... so what? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's hilarious. Wow -- people really are paranoid these days. I have pretty much zero ties to anything Russia.
We have no way to verify that, of course.
However, you did imply that Russia is at war not just with Ukraine, but with the U.S., and then stated that Kaspersky is "a Russian headquartered company that probably has ties to the government".
Russian troll or not, you are very clearly saying that Kaspersky cannot be trusted.
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I just see the stupidity of people in America thinking we're winning something by funneling tons of money to the Ukraine.
You are absolutely right. We should just sit back and accept unprovoked attacks. That should bring stability to the world. Right? What possible harm can a war bring when it's not directly affecting me? Right?
Re: Ok....... so what? (Score:1)
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I just see the stupidity of people in America thinking we're winning something by funneling tons of money to the Ukraine.
In my view money well spent. Not only is it going for a good cause it's dirt cheap insurance against the possibility Putler's musings on reconstituting the USSR mirror his intentions which is far more likely to lead to WWIII.
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In my view money well spent. Not only is it going for a good cause it's dirt cheap insurance against the possibility Putler's musings on reconstituting the USSR mirror his intentions which is far more likely to lead to WWIII.
More than that. Strong response to such aggression is also clear signal for China to stay way from Taiwan. Try to run US businesses without chips completely.
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Russia companies have to live in the real world. Like when the US faced backlash for protecting US soldiers who raped and murdered the Iraqi family. Or blew up them private transport. It is not in their interest to have all the employees work remotely any more than Apple can allow all the employees to work remotely
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Re:Ok....... so what? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Ok....... so what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Ok....... so what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Technically it's not a proxy war because one of the belligerents is actually the invading power. But on the Western side, it's very much a proxy war. We're not sending in any NATO troops, because NATO and Russia trading bullets is the dictionary definition of WWIII, so instead we're equipping Ukraine, just like we've done in proxy wars in the past. We won't openly commit troops, just beef them up at the borders in the very off chance that Russia breaks through, but the fact that we're giving them weapons and intel makes it a proxy war with Russia, and one that has thus far had significant success.
Re: Ok....... so what? (Score:2)
When Western leaders say they want to see Russia defeated and then proceed to send lethal military aid to help Ukraine achieve this goal, itâ(TM)s a proxy war.
Or some might view it that way. For the US and UK, they have commitments under the Bucharest Memorandum and could be rather be seen as honouring those. China and France also made nice noises but we see China in particular doesnâ(TM)t want to help. Other countries helping Ukraine without the umbrella of this commitmentsâ¦
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Oh, right. You mean the "vote" that happened after the place was occupied by Russian troops. A vote under duress is not valid.
Re: Ok....... so what? (Score:3)
You mean the area with a Russian proxy government that was supplied with arms and personnel by Russia to fight against the Ukrainian government and try to overthrow them. I.e. one of the earlier attempts by Russia to take over Ukraine. Remember the little green men? This is after Russia failed to install a puppet as the president of Ukraine.
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This is after Russia failed to install a puppet as the president of Ukraine.
Russia did install a puppet as President of Ukraine. It was after their puppet was deposed.
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When Western leaders say they want to see Russia defeated and then proceed to send lethal military aid to help Ukraine achieve this goal, itâ(TM)s a proxy war.
Grandpa, too bad you can't figure out dictionaries, or you could look up what a "proxy" is. Is it a person that you give assistance to?
If I donate an old PC to the local charity, is the charity now a proxy for whatever I do? No. Of course not. That's not what the word means at all.
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https://dictionary.cambridge.o... [cambridge.org]
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This is all quibbling over definitions. I personally don't think this is a true proxy war, but I can see how you would think that. I should note that the definition you provide does not exactly follow the facts in this war. Russia is directly fighting in this war. Yes, they are also using puppets, but the Russian army, navy and air force along with mercenary groups that are basically part of the Russian government are very definitely fighting. Whether you could say that the Ukrainians are representing the i
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I agree with you on this. It's not a proxy war at all for me, but I can see how some pro-Russian people could easily see it this way. Without the aid of others, the situation would be very different for Ukraine. For me, I see it first and foremost as the UK and US fulfilling their commitments under the Bucharest Memorandum, and to a lesser extent, France its assurances. The other countries in Europe are obviously very concerned about their own long term security, especially given that the Russian governm
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Yes, other nations (very belatedly) fulfilling their obligations seems like a pretty correct way to look at this
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For the past 20 years, NATO has systematically been encroaching on historic Russian cultural territory and prior Soviet satellite states - and immediately installing US weapons systems pointed at Russia. This goes against numerous treaties.
"I only robbed your house because you threatened to join the neighborhood watch! Geez, chill out already." -- Russia
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More like Putin is establishing his legacy before he dies.
He wants to be known as the Great Unifier resurrecting the old USSR.
Re:Ok....... so what? (Score:5, Interesting)
If you don't think the west is in a new cold-war with russia/china right now - I don't know what to tell you... Ukraine at the point is just a proxy war caught in the middle of it all.
The Russian military is in Ukraine fighting directly. They are not engaged in the supply of arms to a third party state to prop up their preferred side. Their own military is directly engaged in conflict for direct gain of Ukrainian territory in a bid to reconstitute the USSR.
Sure everyone can view everything that happens in the world thru the lens of one big geostrategic game between the west and the rest -- in which case everything that happens is just one big geostrategic game that can be dismissed and justified on the same basis.
Yet Ukrainians don't see it that way. They don't want to be molested by Russia. Aligning with the west is the only credible way to make that happen.
Worth noting Russia isn't a superpower. Their oil cursed economy is shit relative to resources, development, land area and population. They have little global influence and a second rate military. There is no grand geostrategic competition for world dominance. There is just a middle of the pack shit hole dictatorship playing out its delusions of grandeur amongst a world with little remaining tolerance for conquest.
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" it's 100% Putin's war, "
I have done a lot of evolutionary psychology related work looking at the origin of war.
Most people go to war because the future looks bleak and it turns out that in some circumstances war is better for the genes so the psychological charismatics leading to war were selected.
But Putin's war is not related to stone age evolution. Which might be the origin of the low level of enthusiasm for the war in Russia.
The Cold War began in 1917 and never ended. (Score:2)
It changed. Those who desperately wanted to pretend it ended were mistaken, often with unfortunate results.
Re: Ok....... so what? (Score:3)
Re:Ok....... so what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Russia considers helping a country defend itself against the invading Russia a hostile act? Let me guess, invading a country is just a friendly visit? Fuck Putin, fuck Russia. Besides: Eugene Kaspersky called for a "compromise" to end the "hostilities". I don't think I want that man's company rummaging through my computers with kernel level access. That company can kiss its international business good-bye.
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Bullies don't like it when someone steps in to interfere with their foreign policy. That should be obvious.
What if China and the Soviet Union tried to work again the US and South Korea in the 1950's, do you think we'd be happy about that? What does Korea have to do with the US or the Soviet Union or even China? The nations of the world have a long history of sticking their nose in other people's business, and an equally long history of getting butt hurt when it happens to them.
I don't think I want that man's company rummaging through my computers with kernel level access. That company can kiss its international business good-bye.
Absolutely agree. You can't tr
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How is "rightly so"? Ukraine in a sovereign state that has multiple territorial incursions since 2014. Ukraine has a right to defend itself, and to seek whatever aid it can to defend its territory. Russia may have sound reasons (the chief being control of the Black Sea coast and restoring Soviet-era dominance there), but they aren't right reasons by any stretch of the imagination, unless we dismiss all moral considerations.
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Ukraine opened the door to Russia's when agreeing to sit down for the Minsk agreements with France, Germany, Russia, LPR and DPR. The Minsk agreements were a failure, DPR didn't comply with stages of the agreement because they felt they earlier stages were done without agreement. Russia failed to work with the DPR on the compliance and instead went after Ukraine. Ukraine was only performing the parts of the agreement that France, Germany, and Russia outlined for them to do.
In many ways we could have left Do
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That's sort of like blaming Belgium for the German army marching into it in 1914 on its way to France, because Belgium had committed to neutrality.
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It's not the same. But thank you for the history lesson.
Ukraine wasn't invading anyone. They were fighting a separatist movement, a mostly internal problem. Russia picked a side and pursued it in the most jingoist fashion I've seen in my lifetime. European powers jumped in to balance the equation, and here we are in 2022 talking about how we can supply arms to Ukraine without entering WW3 or seeing an act nuclear terrorism. oopsie-daisy
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Technically Russian forces were not operating in Donbas at the start of the conflict between Ukrainian government and separatists. I'll admit that's merely a technically because pro-Russian operations in Crimea and Donbas have clearly been orchestrated by Russia. It was shortly after that Russian uniforms were spotted in the region. And practically speaking, Russia's involvement was known before and during the Minsk Agreements. None of it was in good faith on Russia's part. But Ukraine is being held account
Re: Ok....... so what? (Score:2)
Bucharest Memorandum.
Um... they don't want to move to a warzone (Score:3)
If an employee came to me to move to another country and they were sufficiently valuable and could work remotely then I'd let them, knowing that losing them would be a large blow to the company.
The fact that Kaspersky isn't doing this probably means they're being pressured by Russian officials to keep employees in the country. It's a symptom of massive brain drain Russia is faci
Re: Um... they don't want to move to a warzone (Score:2)
It already has hurt Russia, badly.
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I think it might be simpler than that. Once they leave, they won't be in the Russian banking system. And then Kaspersky can no longer pay them with its Russian-banked funds. Perhaps they looked at the books and said "we can't afford to let a bunch of people move from in-system to out-of-system because we will quickly run out of money to pay them".
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If, as a company, you think like that, then you should expect all your customers in "enemy territory" to become former customers.
And, in Russian terms, there is no war.
re: customers (Score:2)
Sure.... nothing wrong with that either, that I can see? Kaspersky should absolutely assume they're going to lose a lot of business from people in any country that isn't on Russia's side.
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Again, according to Russia, there is no war, so those other countries are not enemies.
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I'd expect a Russian headquartered company (...) to support the idea of people sticking together
or maybe, just maybe, the ceo of a company supports the idea of making sure he's surrounded by loyal employees, specially in times of hardship.
re western propaganda ... yes indeed, it looks they're running out of steam and out of boutades to spew. no wonder, what a marathon!
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No, the Kaspersky should move completely outside of Russia until Russia is gone from Ukraine. Kaspersky should in no way be seen as supporting the war and illegal attempt to take over another country. I'd expect any American company to do the same.
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Our company works close together with a from origin Russian company. Upon the outbreak of the war, the boss of that Russian company paid all his people to relocate to Georgia, and he moved the business seat there too.
Interesting and slightly disturbing (Score:2)
There has always been a very slight bit of doubt floating around whether we should fully trust Kaspersky, software intended to find and neutralize malware, when it's coming from Russia, the main source of malware attacks.
Now we hear that Kaspersky doesn't want workers to leave Russia (where they work on computers physically located in Russia, which are more easily surveilled and controlled), and work outside of Russia (where their computers are much more
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I don't think I even know anybody still using Kaspersky AV software, to be honest?
I worked at one place where we used it, maybe 15 years ago. But I think they dumped it too, since then. Most places find they get by ok with Windows Defender, vs paying money for AV subscriptions for third party products.
Russia isn't directly at war with America right now, but we're involved in a costly proxy war to stop their expansionism.
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Why do you have to complain? This is news of interest and you are free to be indifferent to it. Are we so conditioned now to expect every story to be an outrage generator?
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I mean, as an American, I know the media/press expects me to complain about how evil everything is that Russia does. But this seems pretty rational?
If America was at war with some enemy nation and I ran a business here with employees asking to relocate in the enemy territory, I'd probably tell them it's time to resign too.
Personally if I ran a business where the majority of my customers were in the rest of the world and the rest of the world became the enemy to my country I would join my employees and relocate.
This is not only a rational business decision after all who is going to continue to do business with (let alone trust) Russia? It's suicidal not to leave.
Likely a good moral decision as well. When one finds themselves in a place where the rest of the world is your "enemy" it's a pretty safe bet the problem is your co
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Anyone surprised? (Score:4, Insightful)
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because evil russia.
Kaspersky, Respected? (Score:3)
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Russia just seems like they shot themselves in the foot. They were slowly coming up out of this pit of bad governance, but then slid back in.
Perfect became the enemy of good, and that's how they got Putin. They discarded their relatively good leaders because they weren't good enough. Bummer.
Kapersky is the perfect example of an enterprise that has been irreparably damaged by Russia's turn.
I don't get who's been using AVP anyway. It has been a turd sandwich ever since about the time Windows XP came out. I used to use it on Win2k because it was the most effective and fastest AV around, but then the performance impact skyrocketed while it actually lost ground in effectiveness, and there was no longer any good reason to use it.
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I don't really trust *anyone* when it comes to claims about computer security or privacy. I mean, can we even name ONE company in the industry who nobody has questioned about the validity of any claims they made about being secure?
Re:Kaspersky, Respected? (Score:5, Insightful)
The mere fact that Kaspersky is based in Russia automatically makes them suspect. That's the nature of conflict. The US doesn't have to prove anything at this point, it only has to point out the obvious; that Kaspersky sells software that effectively functions as a rootkit (as all AV software does), and at any moment, if it hasn't already happened, the FSB can order Kaspersky to start distributing an update that leaves any computer running the software wide open to surveillance or infrastructure attack. I have a problem with most AV software, but there's no way in hell I'd put Kaspersky on any machine that had any mission critical applications or sensitive data on it.
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are there any AV out there that is trustworthy?
Well trustworthy and not crap.
And marking things like VNC, home made apps, or clean cracks as virus are untrustworthy actions (they do so because someone else pays them to or to inflate numbers)
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There's no reason to get anything other than Microsoft Security essentials.
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I have repeatedly had MBAM remove things that the microsoft tools didn't catch. It's too bad they're spammers, though, and the spam begins once you subscribe. It's spam because you can't get them to stop, there are no unsub links for the subscription reminders and they show up even once you have configured your mailing preferences to don't send me anything. So you actually get punished with spam for subscribing...
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I have repeatedly had MBAM remove things that the microsoft tools didn't catch
Why are you repeatedly getting things on your computer?
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Why are you repeatedly getting things on your computer?
Who said it was my computer? Who said it was one computer? Who said you should chime in?
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Who said you should chime in?
You did. You replied to me.
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I've cleaned things off numerous computers with MBAM that were missed by everything else. I don't know that it's the best, but it's useful in addition to windows whatever.
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Seriously. I would cheerfully trust the reanimated-with-dark-magic corpse of John McAfee with my data before I'd so much as touch the steaming turd that is Kaspersky with a cattle prod duct taped to the end of a 10-foot pole while wearing a full biohazard bunny suit.
no explanation needed (Score:3)
2017 (Score:2)
Silly bias (Score:3)
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Russian = oligarchs, US = billonaires. Why this silly bias in articles written to (presumably) intelligent public?
Because there is an important difference in the degree of influence.
In the West the ultra-rich are certainly politically influential, but the influence is a much softer.
A Western billionaire can get on the new talks shows to promote their view, oligarchs will own the news show and give fairly direct instructions.
Billionaires can pick up the phone and arrange a meeting with fairly senior politicians. Oligarchs have fairly senior politicians working for them.
Billionaires have a lot of influence on how laws an
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Oligarch is specifically the term Russians use, and it specifically refers to wealth derived from post-Soviet privatization.
Who trusts Kaspersky these days? (Score:1)