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Young Ukrainian Escapes War With USB Stick Holding 40% of His Life Savings In Crypto (finbold.com) 166

Posted by BeauHD from the cash-was-out-of-the-question dept.
A 20-year-old Ukrainian man named "Fadey" managed to escape the war and cross into Poland with 40% of his life savings in bitcoin contained on a USB stick. Finbold reports: His experience starts with the invasion and the realization that he would soon have to flee his homeland, for which he needed money. Cash was out of the question. "I couldn't withdraw cash at all, because the queues to ATMs were so long, and I couldn't wait that much time," he said. However, he had a USB stick that contained around $2,000 in Bitcoin, equalling around 40% of Fadey's life savings. The funds on the drive were accessible to him with a unique passcode, allowing him to pay for his survival in another country. "I could just write my seed phrase on a piece of paper and take it with me," he explained. The story was first reported by CNBC.
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Young Ukrainian Escapes War With USB Stick Holding 40% of His Life Savings In Crypto More

Young Ukrainian Escapes War With USB Stick Holding 40% of His Life Savings In Crypto

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  • Fadey tells CNBC that he made a peer-to-peer (P2P) exchange with a friend, trading $600 worth of his bitcoin savings for zoty, the Polish national currency, which he then used to pay for a bus across the border, a bed in a hostel for him and his girlfriend, and some food.

    Some 'friend'. Couldn't spot the guy $600 to maybe save his life? Wow

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Xenx ( 2211586 )

      Some 'friend'. Couldn't spot the guy $600 to maybe save his life? Wow

      Not going to speak to their specifics, but some people don't have that much spare money on hand. They might be able to float the money for a few days to be able to cash it out, but not make due without it. Alternatively, not everybody likes to accept a handout when it isn't absolutely necessary. He could pay with bitcoin, so he may have considered it right to do so. Finally, not all friendships are the same. I am friends with my co-workers, but I wouldn't bend over backwards for them. I would, however, put

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Arethan ( 223197 )

        Sure, but would you lend a random coworker $600 to save their life? If you couldn't afford that sudden financial hit, would you at least help them out by trying to crowdsource within your own network of contacts? GoFund.me, or something? What about a paycheck cash advance or a credit card ATM visit? (I've personally done the ATM credit card exchange for #reasons in the past, so I understand how much it sucks, but also friend death is bad)

        Also, I'm still not certain I fully understand how this alleged transa

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Xenx ( 2211586 )

          Sure, but would you lend a random coworker $600 to save their life?

          In most instances, I probably would. If I had the money to spare to loan out, almost assuredly. If I have to take on actual debt to do so, anything short of literal life/death and I would have to consider it individually. If kids were involved I'd probably be more open to it. I wouldn't, however, be willing to keep doing so for the same person. The difference is I would take on debt if a close friend was just in a tight spot.

        • "Zoty"..."Zolta"...

          Is there some law saying that English-speaking people are banned from writing the name of the Polish currency correctly? :-p

        • Re:Anecdotal stories have anecdotal themes (Score:4, Informative)

          by blahabl ( 7651114 ) on Thursday March 24, 2022 @05:19AM (#62385559)

          Also, I'm still not certain I fully understand how this alleged transaction worked out. The-Fing-Article says he exchanged bitcoin for zolta (polish currency), but doesn't say how that physically worked out. Did he already have a Polish bank account that could receive the funds or something along those lines? Was his 'friend' also in Ukraine and willing to hand him physical cash currency (if so, what came about for that chap)? If the exchanges involved were all 100% digital, what made his Ukrainian currency unacceptable to the bus company?

          This whole article makes less sense the more I think about it...

          Geez, you really think there's any financial institution buying hrywnas these days? Well, let me tell you. No. Let me tell you what the situation in Poland looks like now because you westerners apparently haven't the faintest idea. Basically right now there's over 2M "fresh" Ukrainian refugees, expected to go up to 5M (on top of 1M registered and estimated 1-2M more unregistered refugees back from 2014 war) just in Poland. A 38M country. Yes, over 10% of Poland's population are now Ukrainians, all arrived here now or 5 years ago.

          Unsuprisingly, you can't buy stuff in Polish shops with hrywnas, anymore than you could in US or elswhere in EU. You need the local currency (zloty) for that. So, what happened is that there's a wave of people, all eager to exchange their hrywnas for zlotys. Unsuprisingly, the Ukrainian currency exchanges ran out of zlotys and euros and USDs and everything in the first minutes of war, meanwhile in Poland the currency exchanges ran up their hrywna buyout quotes and stopped trading. Banks followed in first hours of war. So, normally, if you have a let's say EUR account, you go to Poland and can withdraw zlotys from ATM at some reasonable exchange rate. But right now, if you have a hrywna account and try to withdraw zlotys you just get an error message. Or at least you got it during first 2 or 3 days of war. Right now the Polish National Bank has stepped in and is buying out hrywnas from private banks at a fixed, close to pre-war rate, with a limit of 100000 hrywnas per person (that's about 400 USD - note, prices in Poland are much lower than in US) so those people have ANYTHING.

          Yes, Ukrainian National Bank has promised to buy them back at some unspecified point in future. If it still exists. And is solvent. But noone is really counting on that, so right now Poland is converting its currency reserves into hrywna which by all standards is worthless. Of course if it turns out that those currency reserves are needed to intervene on finacial markets, then Poland is f*cked. And these are not really the times when you can count on financial markets to be stable. Inflation in Poland is already in the high teens and rising. And before you ask, yes, of course fucking Western financial shithead assholes are right now abusing that to dump their hrywna investments via local proxies. On top of that Poland is providing (to people who have not paid a dime of taxes there):

          - free education for kids (which, sadly, often amounts just to free daycare mostly because there simply isn't enough teachers who can speak Ukrainian, but still)
          - free healthcare (this actually works, there's enough Ukrainian volunteers from 2014 wave who have learned Polish to act as translators)
          - Kindergeld under same terms as for natives, amounting to about 120 USD/month per kid (rememer, it's worth much more there than in US)
          - about 400 USD/month in support for families who take in Ukrainian refugees (oh, because, I forgot to mention, most of them live with Polish families, not in refugee camps like in western EU, those huge halls of people you see on photos are - well, for now at least - transitory for fresh arrivals, until something can be found for them)
          - immediate, no questions asked right for permanent residency and work, just have to register for local version of Social Security Number

          And before you ask, yes, the fucking "refugee-lov

          • Mod parent up informative please.

            Just a slight correction, in quite a few Western countries, it's also private individuals giving Ukrainians shelter in their own home. (Placing vulnerable people at risk ina percentage of cases...) Governments are checking on how to not get to much of a burden, just like Van Der Leyden on EU level.

            That said, Poland and Moldova are bearing the brunt of this (Moldova have taken in 350k people ons population of about 3M). Whatever comes off this, Ukrainians have the biggest

          • A few additional points: regarding the 150M financial aid of the EU, last week the Dutch rallied and collected 140M in 3 days (17M people country), the Swiss also collected over 90M (8.5M people country, just richer than EU people). And surely that 150M EU package isn't the only one. Also, the EU is preparing to exchange hrywnja in EU currency. Things are moving in the right direction, with a lot still remaining to be done. And yes, for those with their eyes open, Poland is doing an awesome job.
    • To save his life? Maybe. To become a deserter? Hell no.
      • Deserter? He's not military. . .

        • If I'm not mistaken, all able-bodied male Ukrainians are supposed to stay in the country and fight.
          I don't know if fleeing makes him a deserter legally, but most surely in the eyes of all the men staying and fighting and probably in the eyes of all the woman and children who had to leave their husbands/fathers/brothers behind.

    • Quote: "Some 'friend'."

      Here's a food for thought:

      == DATA
      1 UAH (Ukraine currency) = 0.15 PLN (Poland currency)
      Poland: minimal (brute) month salary is 2,800 PLN
      Ukraine: minimal (brute) months salary is 5,000 UAH
      1 USD (USA currency) = 29.33 UAH = 4.29 PLN

      == BASIC MATH
      The Poland guy sent him 600 USD, which are 2,574 PLN, which in turn is equal to more than one month salary (the minal is "brute", without taxes and retentions).

      The Ukrainian guy was forced by the murdering Russian genocides to withdraw 600 USD, wh

  • So, a plug for crypto, as if it's describing some sort of intrinsic advantage. An ounce of gold would have been worth the same, and safer. Similar size and weight, and either could be lost or stolen, but the gold wouldn't be worthless without a password or if it was physically damaged. And, it would have independent worth - no need for computer access, etc.

    • So, a plug for crypto....

      Hardly. For that, they would need to tell us what fraction of his life savings it was when he loaded it in Ukraine, not just when he got out of Ukraine. For all we know it may have been 80% of his life savings when it loaded it.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by fermion ( 181285 )
      Hey, this is why I have money in crypto and other currencies. The republicans have stated they will reinstall Trump if they win in November using any and all tools at their disposal. It would be foolish not to hedge our bets against such an eventuality.
      • What would Trump have to do with needing crypto? Did you need it last time?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by fermion ( 181285 )
          Last time he was legally elected, not installed.

          • Last time he was legally elected, not installed.

            Well, that's all we're going to hear about it going forward. No matter who wins, the other side will say the election was stolen. It's been going on since 2000 and it surely won't stop anytime soon.
            Back to my point though, Trump will likely run and likely win, and you won't have any more need for crypto than you do now.

    • Re:Nice try. (Score:4, Informative)

      by CaptQuark ( 2706165 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2022 @09:58PM (#62384971)

      An ounce of gold would have been worth the same, and safer.

      Playing devil's advocate here, but I don't know that gold would be safer or easier. First, gold is a LOT more likely to be stolen than a USB drive. A border guard or soldier seeing a $2000 gold coin is going to be a lot more tempted to take it than a USB drive. Second, the crypto wallet could be backed up so even if the first USB drive is lost/stolen you could have a backup somewhere. Lastly, gold would have to be converted to local currency before it is of any use. That means finding a assayer or broker who deals with gold. And unless it's in an easy to divide format, it's an all-or-nothing transaction. A gold chain with individual links would be easier than a solid ingot or coin.

      I'm not a big fan of cryptocurrency, but in this case it does seem to have some advantages for refugees. Millions of refugees with money in Ukrainian banks are having problems converting their funds into hard currency to use in other countries. https://www.reuters.com/market... [reuters.com]

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by msauve ( 701917 )
        Nothing was said about a one ounce coin (which really wouldn't be hard to hide), but your comment makes me wonder why no one makes a modern "pieces of eight" divisible one.

        • What do you mean? They do - all of them. From what I can tell "Pieces of 8" comes from the Spanish eight-real coin, which would sometimes be cut into 8 pie-slices to give change if single-real coins weren't available. It's not like it routinely came with "cut here" marks on the coin.

          Or do you just mean why aren't there smaller, less valuable gold coins around? Because the simple answer is there are, they're just not very common.

          Why? Probably because nobody really uses gold or silver as currency any mor

    • An ounce of gold would be easy prey for a mugging or confiscation. However, a USB flash drive with some random crap on it, perhaps a file being a VeraCrypt container with two wallets, one with a token amount of coinage which serves as "mugging money", and a hidden volume with one's real wallet data. That way, one can have not just one, but multiple USB drives on them, as well as a few MicroSD cards, and be able to have some confidence that some type of media might survive to get to a place that the crypto

    • So, a plug for crypto, as if it's describing some sort of intrinsic advantage.

      I am generally opposed to the idea of crypto-currencies, but I can see the advantage in this special case. Obviously, the Ukrainian economy is being severely damaged by the war, so escaping with any property at all is quite an achievement. It is also worth pointing out that the Russian economy is being severely clobbered by sanctions.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/bus... [bbc.co.uk]

      As usual, economic sanctions and consequent inflation, shortages, etc tend to affect the poorest in society, who have not done anything wrong i

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by nagora ( 177841 )

      And gold doesn't need a working computer to use.

      Cryptocurrencies are particularly bad for warzones due to the probable disruption to the infrastructure - particularly electricity. Notice that the story boils down to having to pay in local currency for a bus to somewhere his USB stick can be used reliably. It wasn't about him being able to stay where he was and buy stuff.

    • Or a euro denominated bank account at a bank with EU headquarters... That would have been much better and safer.

      It seems like the crypto bros are just trying to get attention again.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • $2000 (Score:4, Funny)

    by OverlordQ ( 264228 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2022 @08:49PM (#62384795) Journal

    I mean $1000, no $3000, oops $750, no $2100 for real this time, jk, $50 and a stupid jpg

  • Illegal (Score:4, Informative)

    by geekymachoman ( 1261484 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2022 @08:50PM (#62384803)

    It's illegal to leave Ukraine, if you're a man. [usatoday.com]

    A woman can freely leave, but men == army.

    • So, once again, crypto is being used to facilitate crime.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Tom ( 822 )

      This. The media missed the ACTUAL story which is that - unlike 99% of other men his age - he could leave the country at all.

      • This. The media missed the ACTUAL story which is that - unlike 99% of other men his age - he could leave the country at all.

        I've seen enough pictures of men 18-60 fleeing Ukraine that I really doubt that's the case.

        Sure it's "prohibited" but I'm not sure there's a penalty if you're caught trying, and certainly no one is turning them away.

        The "ban" is basically an attempt to create an expectation that those men should stay and fight, but if people really want to leave they can. The guy fleeing the country isn't likely to be an effective guerrilla fighter anyway.

    • A coward (Score:4, Funny)

      by TheMiddleRoad ( 1153113 ) on Thursday March 24, 2022 @01:18AM (#62385267)

      He should be fighting for his country, not trying to get himself and his money out. Typical crypto loser.

  • If the seed phrase is on a piece of paper I'm curious to know what the stick is for.

  • Misleading - your funds live on the blockchain (Score:5, Informative)

    by vinn ( 4370 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2022 @09:19PM (#62384895) Homepage Journal
    I think this is a concept a lot of people miss, including those using crypto. He probably had something like a hardware wallet (Ledger, etc). Your Bitcoin doesn't "live" on the device - your Bitcoin is on the blockchain associated with your address. The hardware wallet holds your private key to access it. However, with most of those systems even if you lose your hardware wallet you can rebuild your private key with your seed phrase and get access again.

    • The problem with carrying around a BIP-39 seed phrase is that people know what it is, and if it is on a stamped steel card, or a piece of paper, it might just be taken. BIP-39 is great for tossing a mnemonic seed phrase into a physically secure container, but anyone possessing that effectively possesses any/all currency attached to the wallet.

      By storing the BIP-39 seed phrase on a USB drive, or perhaps multiple USB drives may be a wise idea. Stuff like a MicroSD card for example. And one can have a copy

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Xenna ( 37238 )

        Since the seed phrase is just a word representation of a large number I suggest just using that large number instead.

        This text may look like a seed:

        lunar shock object soon course pair judge helmet vessel scan release excite

        But this hex code could be anything (especially when appended to some binary file, like a special photograph on your camera's SD card):

        57a76b0f8697a25535564e11968669 etc..

        (convert to binary with xxd and append with cp)

        • Yeah, that's just not how this shit works bro. Thanks for trying I guess.

          • > Yeah, that's just not how this shit works bro. Thanks for trying I guess.

            What he is suggesting actually works fine. He may be overlooking the obvious: its super easy to memorize a "mnemonic", being thats what they are designed for, but he is not wrong. There are countless ways to obfuscate 128 bits of entropy, and there is nothing incorrect about the method he described.

            • It doesn't actually. But it may have at one point. Do the research if you care enough

              • It does work, but hardly any wallets support entering the hex num, most will take the 12/24 words.

                You can just convert number to 12/24 words when u need to recreate the wallet/pvtkey.

                (I have been fiddling around with a smart card crypto wallet that only takes the hex num instead of 12/24 word mnemonic so I have been trying this exact thing)

                The question remains though that why is the usb needed at all when u have the recovery phrase on a paper !

      • I highly suspect that virtually nobody will identify the seed phase as anything relevant, and won't take it.

        This isn't done fantasy cyberpunk world, this is a world where even it nerds don't know enough about bitcoin to assume someone is carrying a seed phase with them, much less a soldier or a border guard.

  • Same for the Afghani and Syrian men that bugged out.

    If he's identified his life won't be worth spit.

    • He certainly has a legal obligation to stay and fight. But being legal doesn't automatically make something morally right.

      Personally, I believe that a government should earn that level of loyalty by treating its people, and its soldiers, well. Such a government would have no shortage of volunteers. Any government that must resort to force to compel people to face the horrors of war on its behalf, doesn't deserve to be fought for.

      To put it directly: choosing to stand and fight in defense of one's country

      • You want to live in that country, you are morally responsible to defend it. Otherwise you are living off the blood of others. They should release his name so the country can bar him from returning. If you disagree, I'll say this in advance: you are morally repugnant, especially for ignoring the context in which this story exists.

        • So wait, if you live in a city that is not at war, are you morally obligated to be a police officer? Because they protect you from crime, right? So if you don't become a police officer you are "living off the blood of others," right?

          Wrong. Nobody is obligated to become a police officer, even if there is violent crime in the area. Instead, people are obligated to pay taxes, which in turn pays the salary of those who freely choose to become police officers.

          The exact same is true of the military. We pay t

        • You want to live in that country, you are morally responsible to defend it.

          No you're not. A country is nothing more than a governmental collective deciding how to spend money on its people. Your moral obligation starts and ends at paying taxes. What the government does with tax money (e.g. spend it on military's) is up to them, but you don't owe a country shit. The "blood of others" is compensated, being a military boy is a paid for job funded by tax dollars. You have no more a moral obligation to fight for your country than you do to go out and help your postman deliver the mail.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jvkjvk ( 102057 )

        >To put it directly: choosing to stand and fight in defense of one's country is noble and heroic. Forcing people to fight is tantamount to slavery, and is morally wrong.

        To put it directly: You lived in that country probably your whole life and owe it to the other people there to stay and fight. A conscription law in cases where your country has been invaded is not only legal, it is also not tantamount to slavery or morally wrong. Where are your morals?

        • My morals are right here: if you lived in that country your entire life, you probably got a job that served the needs of others, and paid your taxes. That is exactly what you owe, and that is all that you owe. There is no job that any one person is obligated to take. You pick your job, that's what makes a country free. Soldier is one job among many, and not everybody has to pick it.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by jvkjvk ( 102057 )

            Except when that country is being invaded and your fellow civilian citizens along with the military, along with your infrastructure, buildings and just about everything else is being destroyed.

            Then perhaps the rules may change a bit, but obviously that makes no difference to you. I hope you aren't in my country.

            • The fu in his named stands for fucked up.

            • Except when that country is being invaded and your fellow civilian citizens along with the military, along with your infrastructure, buildings and just about everything else is being destroyed.

              You have the same petulant sense of entitlement that parents have when they wonder why their children don't want to care for them in their old age. If they don't want to, it's your fault for not giving them an upbringing that would make them want to. And if people don't want to stand and fight for their home nation, whose fault is it?

        • To put it directly: You lived in that country probably your whole life and owe it to the other people there to stay and fight.

          That's the same argument as suggesting that you owe your parents for raising you. And it's a shit argument. You didn't choose to be born and you didn't choose where to be born. The idea that someone can enslave you because you were born in territory they conquered is a shit idea.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by jvkjvk ( 102057 )

            The "morality" espoused by the parent boils down to this:

            "Fuck the poor. Let them fight for my privileges and freedoms -- my taxes have paid for their deaths."

            No, no they have not.

            • I never said the poor were required to fight. The core of my point is that it is a choice. Poor people can choose a different job just like rich people.

              The core values here are freedom and self-determinacy. These are what America (and some other countries) are founded on. They are noble ideas. Apparently, a little TOO noble for some people who are ready to throw them away and go right back to slavery the moment a threat emerges.

    • Why? Some concept of nationalism? A country is nothing more than a delineation line of where a government authority ends. Unless that elected government has passed a law mandating you fight there's no requirement to do so.

  • That can be hard at times and the value volatile. Best to upload into a money market at a popular investment site and have it earn interest while escaping. Then download it either in paper form or transfer into a new local bank account.

  • I am privileged to have a bank so I don't have to literally cary my life savings on a flash drive that can be lost, stolen, damaged, broken, or just randomly quit working without notice. My money can't be permanently and irrevocably lost forever just because I sit down wrong and bend a flash drive in my pocket.
    • The government can freeze your bank accounts and any investment portfolios at any time. It's a thing they do.

      • It's a thing they do.

        Actually it's a thing they don't do unless allowed for by a very specific and highly restrictive legal framework which almost always relies on some illegal action of the account holder.

        • The same legal system that won’t put trump in jail? Your trust is unfounded.

          • The same legal system that won’t put trump in jail?

            For what? The "insurrection" of unarmed people shouting "USA!" in DC?
            I get that you hate them and you're on the other side, but get real.

        • It's a thing they do.

          Actually it's a thing they don't do unless allowed for by a very specific and highly restrictive legal framework which almost always relies on some illegal action of the account holder.

          You mean, like a war where you fled the country instead of defending it?
          This guy had a bank account and couldn't get his money out. That's why I mentioned it.

    • FTR - There's such thing as wallet custodians (coinbase) for people who don't trust themselves to keep their keys safe.

      • Oh I've [slashdot.org] heard [slashdot.org] of [slashdot.org] those. [slashdot.org]

        It's a place you go to have someone make off with your money right? https://yro.slashdot.org/story... [slashdot.org]

        • Sure. None of these are examples of the real risk which is exemplified by the MTGOX fiasco, but you certainly roll your dice and take your chances. I personally prefer having sole access to my account, though no doubt coinbase is less likely to run off to fuck Thailand hookers than a magic the gathering cards website. By how much I am not willing to estimate.

    • I am privileged to have a bank ...

      Banks have shown themselves to be unreliable places to store your savings. I read that what is happening Russia, with the severe economic sanctions, is that people are buying valuable durable goods while they can, because the rouble will soon be junk.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by edis ( 266347 )

      This. I don't get why he wouldn't make use of bank account and a card.
      But I didn't bother to read the article, true.

  • For the past several years I have been stating that Bitcoin sucks as an apocalypse fund, it's only use is when your country is at war but the rest of the world is OK. That someone could use it to move money out of war torn country, like people leaving Nazi Germany.

    I kept hoping for confirmation when those bastards invaded Ukraine and am very glad it happened.

  • I assume he had a bank card of some sort. Could he not use it once he fled the country?

    I have used my personal debit card to withdrawal local currency in Mexico and Germany in the past.

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