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China's Population May Start To Shrink This Year, New Birth Data Suggest (science.org) 138

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Science.org: After many decades of growth, China's population could begin to shrink this year, suggest data released yesterday by China's National Bureau of Statistics. The numbers show that in 2021, China's birth rate fell for the fifth year in a row, to a record low of 7.52 per 1000 people. Based on that number, demographers estimate the country's total fertility rate -- the number of children a person will bear over their lifetime -- is down to about 1.15, well below the replacement rate of 2.1 and one of the lowest in the world.

Young couples are deciding against having more children, "despite all the new initiatives and propaganda to promote childbearing," says Yong Cai, a demographer at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. "China's population decline will be rapid," he predicts. The shift from growth to decline has happened startlingly fast. Projections made just a few years ago suggested China's population would expand until around 2027. Last year, when it announced results from the 2020 census, the statistics bureau still pegged the total fertility rate at 1.3.
The report also found that China is becoming ever more urbanized, "with nearly 65% of the population now living in urban areas, up 0.8 percentage points from 2020," reports Science.org. The crowded housing, high living costs, and exorbitant education expenses all "reduce people's willingness to have a second child, let alone a third child," says Wei Guo, a demographer at Nanjing University.
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China's Population May Start To Shrink This Year, New Birth Data Suggest

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  • It was their intelligence, that let men create tools that would have them triumph over all other life on earth, and it shall be their intelligence that will lead them to create the tools towards their own regulated infertility that shall cause their ultimate extinction as they realize more and more that reproduction holds little advantage for the individual.
    • So basically this [vimeo.com].
    • Re:How poetic (Score:4, Insightful)

      by MBGMorden ( 803437 ) on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @11:14PM (#62186739)

      and it shall be their intelligence that will lead them to create the tools towards their own regulated infertility that shall cause their ultimate extinction as they realize more and more that reproduction holds little advantage for the individual.

      Evolution isn't strictly biological - it can also be cultural. Those individuals and cultures that want to have children will survive whilst those who don't will die without passing on their genes (and for cultures, ideals).

      • by jbengt ( 874751 )
        As often as not, conquering populations assimilated significant parts of the cultures of the conquered populations into their own culture.
      • I completely agree about evolution being cultural as well as biological, but cultural values can shift far faster than biological ones. I know many families who have two or more grown children in their thirties or older and have not produced any grandchildren. In almost all cases, fertility is not an issue. Some just don't want children, despite having a positive upbringing of their own, and others are just turned off by the shitshow that is modern dating. For many of those people, I can't think of any
    • Since the start of the pandemic and that's saying something. There's close to 7 billion people on this planet. Well underpopulation is a problem socially because we aren't equipped to have a functional economy that doesn't see constant growth we're in no danger of running out of people.
    • Re:How poetic (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Kokuyo ( 549451 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:56AM (#62187029) Journal

      Whoever can say with a square face that reproduction holds little advantage for the individual just has never seen it done right.

      The amount of inner peace I have found in facing this world for someone else, the drive to find and tackle old daemons.

      My children have made me a better man. I am truly sorry for anyone who has not had that privilege.

    • It was their intelligence, that let men create tools that would have them triumph over all other life on earth, and it shall be their intelligence that will lead them to create the tools towards their own regulated infertility that shall cause their ultimate extinction as they realize more and more that reproduction holds little advantage for the individual.

      So as soon as a country not in Population Growth Threatens The World mode, it's headed for 'ultimate extinction'?

      What really happens is that the fastest childbearing rates are found in late agrarian societies, where lots of children are needed to help on the farm. As a country industrializes, its population growth always drops toward replacement rate. People love children, but they are also far more long-run rational than you apocalypse theorists believe.

  • Evolution at work (Score:2, Insightful)

    by iamacat ( 583406 )

    Humanity of the future will be dominated by people who have more children for a combination of biological and cultural reasons. They may not be European or Chinese, but nature will find a way.

    • Civilization might not survive the evolutionary process.

    • I believe East Europeans ( Hungary, Poland, Czeks, ... ) will florish too. Sadly, Germans will not.

      • Re:Evolution at work (Score:4, Informative)

        by brunes69 ( 86786 ) <slashdot@[ ]rstead.org ['kei' in gap]> on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @05:26AM (#62187233)

        Afraid not. Poland's birth rate is far below replacement already at only 1.4 births / couple. Germany is 1.5. Hungary is 1.49.

        Replacement rate is around 2.2.

        Birth rate in the USA is 1.7, 1.65 in the UK.

        100 years of data shows a very clear trend - as societies become more affluent, the birth rate drops. And it happens more and more rapidly as the years go by.

        The birth rate in the entire OECD has been below replacement for a very long time. All population growth is coming from immigration, from Africa and SE Asia. Now that SE Asia has passed the curve and is starting to decline, Africa is soon going to be the only population growth area left, and that too will stop soon.

        • by Espen ( 96293 )

          You’re missing the most obvious source of population growth in countries where fertility rates are falling (don’t feel bad; most people do): mortality rates are also falling; the population is ageing: the real effect is obvious but often missed: more people are living longer and making the population (live people) larger. The effect is even more marked in developing countries where life expectancy is growing faster. You can not predict population growth from reproduction rates alone.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Probably not. This theory has been debunked as part of the "great replacement" stuff. Having more kids means what resources you have are spread more thinly, which tends to result in shorter lifespans and a lower quality of life for them. Over time, all developing societies trend towards lower birth rates.

      The only real issue here is that we need to adjust our economies to cope with zero or negative population growth.

      • The only real issue here is that we need to adjust our economies to cope with zero or negative population growth.

        Yup. This is one of those somewhat rare times when your analysis and mine match up exactly.

        I don't think anyone has come up with a solution thus far. Left, right, whatever side of the political spectrum you look at, the solution seems to be "import cheap labor from shitty parts of the world, get people who are willing to work hard at shitty jobs for low wages."

        I hope I'm around for another 40-50 years. I don't expect these issues to be major within my lifespan, but my kids, and if they have kids...it's goin

      • by iamacat ( 583406 )

        That's predicated on raw resource shortage vs shortage of labor to exploit raw resources. Not the whole world in Singapore even today, let alone in future if birth rates of some demographics stay low. If political obstacles were out of the way, most of Russia and abandoned American places like Detroit have all the resources and no people.

  • by Somervillain ( 4719341 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @12:25AM (#62186829)
    You can't have a workforce that's educated, under constant economic insecurity, and reproducing. You can only have 2 at a time. If you want people to consume beyond their means and work extra hard in highly skilled jobs to pay for that habit, they're not going to focus on building families.

    Want to raise your birthrate? Start treating families better. Give paid leave. Give economic security. Let middle class families know that if the make a minor mistake or, in the case of Americans, get unlucky and face a serious illness, that their 3rd child won't bankrupt them. I know well over 1000 engineers I've met in the last 10 years. Less than 10 have 3 kids or more. They like the lifestyle of economic security more than the prospect of having 3rd kid.

    How much of the blame rests squarely on Jack Ma for championing the bullshit 996 model and businesses in Asia falling over themselves to adopt it? Yeah, if your husband is working 72h a week, you're basically a single mom. I can't imagine any woman with options eager to reproduce with a man who works those hours...both because he's literally not around to fuck and because any idiot who falls for that shit probably has a ton of other baggage as well.

    So yeah, China's birthrate is low and I'll be surprised if it turns around any time soon. Sorry, you want women to voluntarily carry your babies? treat them better.

    It's really a failure of modern capitalism. We want people to be educated and consume, consume, consume...and never feel fulfilled unless they're constantly consuming....driving the consumption economy. Well, do a good enough job selling all these gadgets and lifestyles, people will want to consume more than they want to build families. So modern governments have to spend big to actually make having children less painful or accept that their best and brightest will not want to reproduce very much and deal with the declining population.
    • by dfn5 ( 524972 )
      Three? You're kidding? Speaking as an engineer, I'm one and done. I've been planning on college with a 529 plan since birth and when I was considering a second child I thought how can I possibly afford that?
    • by brunes69 ( 86786 )

      I'm sorry but you're ignoring the fact that China is simply catching up to the rest of the world. The entire OECD has been below replacement birthrate for a long time.

      The only areas of the world where the population is still growing are Africa and SE Asia, and SE Asia is close to turning around to below replacement soon as well.

      • The only areas of the world where the population is still growing are Africa and SE Asia, and SE Asia is close to turning around to below replacement soon as well.

        GREAT article about India (and I have no doubt uch of the same will apply to South East Asian, the Middle East, etc.)

        India has a People Problem [bloombergquint.com]

        The average Indian woman is now likely to have only two children. That’s below the “replacement rate” of 2.1, at which the population would exactly replace itself over generations. A few decades ago, this would have been considered miraculous in a country dismissed as a Malthusian nightmare. ...

        In urban India, the fertility rate is now 1.6, equivalent to the U.S.

        China-watchers have long debated whether that country will grow old before it gets rich. India now has to answer that same question, with far fewer resources at its disposal.

    • Want to raise your birthrate? Start treating families better. Give paid leave. Give economic security. Let middle class families know that if the make a minor mistake or, in the case of Americans, get unlucky and face a serious illness, that their 3rd child won't bankrupt them. I know well over 1000 engineers I've met in the last 10 years. Less than 10 have 3 kids or more. They like the lifestyle of economic security more than the prospect of having 3rd kid.

      It's a nice theory, and I'm all for encouraging a healthy family life, but what exactly is your evidence that changing any of this will increase the number of kids?

      Many of the countries with the most generous social welfare networks and policies have the lowest birth rates.

      • Many of the countries with the most generous social welfare networks and policies have the lowest birth rates.

        Those countries introduced those measures to deal with a declining birthrate. You're expressing what I call the "chemotherapy paradox."

        "How can we say that chemotherapy stops cancer? Everyone I know on chemotherapy has cancer!" (logic famously spouted by Donald Trump in a 2012 tweet: "I have never seen a thin person drinking Diet Coke.")

        You make raising a child scary and illogical, smart people will stop doing it. So yeah, your options are to rely on the poorer people to have kids...all of which a

        • Those countries introduced those measures to deal with a declining birthrate. You're expressing what I call the "chemotherapy paradox."

          "How can we say that chemotherapy stops cancer? Everyone I know on chemotherapy has cancer!" (logic famously spouted by Donald Trump in a 2012 tweet: "I have never seen a thin person drinking Diet Coke.")

          I almost mentioned, but it's really not a paradox. It's just that there doesn't seem to be much correlation, one way or the other, between the factors you list and reproductive rate. Yes, some countries with low birth rates have tried those things, but it doesn't seem to make much of a difference. Other countries (like France) have a relatively high birthrate and relatively generous benefits.

          I think Trump's right about diet coke, and there's some evidence that agrees.

          You make raising a child scary and illogical, smart people will stop doing it. So yeah, your options are to rely on the poorer people to have kids...all of which are having declining birthrates in the developed world, or you rely on immigration to keep your population numbers up.

          I don't know that any of that is true at

    • Treat people like shit, they'll make less people

      Completely ass backwards. When you treat people like shit they have more people. More people to work the fields, less giving a fuck about the rest of the world.

      Frankly though China should be trying to reduce its population, not grow it. They have more people than they can feed properly already. And food insecurity is going to rise for the foreseeable future, and oh yeah China and the USA have been saber-rattling and a massive percentage of China's food comes from the USA.

      • Treat people like shit, they'll make less people

        Completely ass backwards. When you treat people like shit they have more people. More people to work the fields, less giving a fuck about the rest of the world.

        I specifically mentioned educated workers. :) Educated workers with options choose not to have families. They have too many other fun things competing for their attention.

        It's a failure of capitalism. Make everyone compete to find fun things to do with your free time...eventually they'll succeed and make many things in life more fun than raising a family.

        Yes, children used to be your retirement plan and welfare safety net, but that's not the case in the developed world, particularly among the educ

        • China's got a growing educated population and a still sizable undereducated population.

          If their technology is all they keep telling us it is then they can mitigate the problem in the same way the Japanese are planning to, lots of robots.

    • Western Europe has a great support system for having kids and yet negative birth rate. I think when the genie of living well comes out of the bottle and people see with their own eyes neighbors with no kids having more stuff better vacations, money to eat out... they think, whoa, I'm having less kids. I think religion plays a part here to, where now people don't do what the pope says or whatever religion they follow just because. Really I think negative growth is fantastic. It is going to come with hardship
    • Serfs weren't exactly won't treated. Neither were Indian peasants. It seems to be more about access to birth control and education along with increased equality for women (I'm not talking to sjw type I'm talking about women no longer being property).

      Everyone just assumes women will have as many babies as they can and nobody ever thinks about what it's actually like to squeeze one out. Yeah there are some women who are clown cars. I had a neighbor who would openly admit she would spend the rest of her li
    • by q_e_t ( 5104099 )

      Want to raise your birthrate? Start treating families better. Give paid leave. Give economic security.

      The empirical evidence is giving those things results in lower birthrates.

      • Want to raise your birthrate? Start treating families better. Give paid leave. Give economic security.

        The empirical evidence is giving those things results in lower birthrates.

        Those measures were introduced to combat declining birthrates. By your logic, all empirical evidence shows that chemotherapy causes cancer because everyone who takes it has cancer.

        • by q_e_t ( 5104099 )

          Those measures were introduced to combat declining birthrates.

          (Here comes the Godwin). By such regimes as Germany in 1930s after 1933, or the USSR around the same time. In other countries, e.g. the UK, such measures were partly introduced because it was hoped that they would result in lower birth rates. Even around 1900 the link was understood by governments with a grip on reality as many countries that had already industrialised and had become more prosperous were seeing a reduction in birth rates as people had more access to the things you mention, and they were fur

    • Less than 10 out of 1000 have 3+kids? You must work in a large city and not get beyond the city limits all that much. Big cities are BRUTAL places to have a multi-kid family. Unless you live way out in the far suburbs and commute for 120 minutes each way, or if you have serious cash, meaning more than two-professional-incomes level resources. Then, you can afford the 2+ million dollar home in the center of the city, a full-time nanny, and all the help you want with other chores.

      I live somewhere in the
      • Less than 10 out of 1000 have 3+kids? You must work in a large city and not get beyond the city limits all that much.

        I live where the jobs are, in one of the top tech cities in the USA. Yes, if you want to work for Google, Apple, Microsoft, etc, your options are pretty limited as to where to live. Want to work for a regional insurance chain? I am sure the economics are much different. However, even when you move an hour away from a tech center, the economics means that kid #3 is a HUGE hit on your lifestyle, even at an engineer's salary. That paycheck is high, but so is the mortgage.

        I like it this way. I chose t

        • Oh I totally agree with you. Which implies that we've probably entered another stage of our evolution. For most of our evolution, it was pretty clear that the smarter people survived better and bred more, creating an evolution pressure towards higher intelligence.

          In the past 100-200 years, that's changed. Most of the smartest people are saying "screw kids who needs that". The evolutionary consequences should be obvious to any of those 1-child smart people. Not full-blown idiocracy, but the intelligence
    • So yeah, China's birthrate is low and I'll be surprised if it turns around any time soon.
      China's birthrate is not low, it is close to normal.
      It was low during the "period of one child policy". Which got canceled about a decade ago.

  • Nigeria (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ghoul ( 157158 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @12:26AM (#62186835)
    Meanwhile Nigeria is about to have a larger population than China by 2100.

    The special thing about Africa is its very lighly populated so it can hold another 2 billion and also its the only place the number of children per woman stays above 4 even when people become rich.

    The future of humanity is neither European nor Asian, its African
    • People say the birth dearth will never come to Africa.

      But they said the same thing about Italy, India, Mexico, etc., where big families were a cultural expectation. But dramatic declines in birth rates happened very quickly in all those places.

      • It's already there, just early days.

        (Swiping what I just wrote in a different post):

        Even in Nigeria, the Total Fertility Rate has fallen from ~6.5 in 1990 to ~5 today. Ethiopa, TFR of 7 in 1990 to 4.5 today. Zimbabwe, TFR of 7.3 in 1980 to 3.5 today. etc. The trends are there in most places, they have similar slopes as in Europe, East Asia, North America, etc. they're just earlier in the process. (All from Wikipedia "Demographic" articles)

    • Meanwhile Nigeria is about to have a larger population than China by 2100.

      According to a graph at https://ourworldindata.org/gra... [ourworldindata.org] Nigeria is expected to have some 733M people in 2100, way behind China (1060M) and India (1450M). Of course such predictions are full of uncertainties.

    • The future of humanity is neither European nor Asian, its African

      Interesting take.

      In the year 1800, by many guesses, about HALF the entire population of the world lived in China and India.

      Britain's population was a blip, yet over the next century Britain, France, heck, the freaking Dutch, dominated the globe, and still do to a notable degree.

      For much of the last half century, people have been saying the future is Chinese or Indian. Now, suddenly, the narrative has changed.

      Population numbers don't mean everything.

      What will happen when the global population decline starts

    • I won't be alive to collect but I'd bet you that by 2100 the population of any African country will be less than it is today.
  • *COOKIE ABSENT* (Score:5, Informative)

    by wierd_w ( 1375923 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @12:30AM (#62186837)

    Glad to see the editorial quality of Slashdot is the same as ever--

    The link in the summary dead-ends, with a lovely "Cookie Absent" landing.

    I dug, and I believe this is the appropriate URL.

    https://www.science.org/conten... [science.org]

  • Before the CCP, the population was under half a billion. Needs to get back to that.
  • .. a book by a guy named Kienzle, in a series about a mystery solving priest.

    At one point a seminarian is reading off a list of "prayers for the faithful" for a class. Two went something like:

    In times of drought.
    For our farmers, we ask for rain wo they're crops may grow.

    Lord hear our prayer.

    In times of flood
    We know know we asked for rain, but enough is enough. Stop the rain and we will never ask you to muck with the weather again.

    Lord hear our prayer.

    China is now living through the consequence of it's decades long, "one child policy",

    • China is now living through the consequence of it's decades long, "one child policy"

      That has almost certainly contributed, to some degree, to the rapidity of the decline China is now facing, but there is nothing else unique about China's incipient demographic collapse. See Korea and Japan for two neighbors, and the entire rest of the developed world (Europe, North America, Australia, etc). Same situation, just varying in degrees.

      The evidence is pretty unambiguous. In the absense or decline of religious imperative, as societies become affluent, as men and and women become better educated, a

  • The global population is massively to large at this time anyways.

    • The global population is massively to large at this time anyways.

      I'm always interested to hear statements like. Too large by what standard? I'm not sure of any objective standards that exist to answer this question. Certainly the quality of life for pretty much everyone in the world is increasing. We are ripping through natural resources, but we don't know when that will end, and recycling of materials, renewable energy, etc., is bigger every year. There's no clear end in sight for what level of population the global ecosystem can support.

  • I find this very sad.

    I like people.

    I especially like babies and small children, who are young enough not to have fully learned how to hate.

    Yeah, I know, lots of folks will reply that I'm selfish because I like people and do not consider them "pollution" and do not think it is even lawful, much less wise, for a society to incentivize their nonexistence, much less to murder an awful lot of them before they are even born.

    I hope at least some of those people will grow up and turn into responsible, balanced, and

  • Of all the industrialized powers, Europe, Japan, and China, the the English speaking countries, US Canada, Great Britain and New Zealand, are the only ones that will not suffer a demographic implosion. The others will not have enough workers to support their elderly. For China, guns vs butter will become guns vs canes. Why? Because of immigration. Alone among these areas we welcome ( or at least tolerate ) large scale immigration. Some Europeans originally welcomed the middle east refugees as a source of ne
    • I fully agree that the problems can be and will be mitigated by more immigration. However, I am not sure the English language focus is based on reality:

      In 2019, while the USA had taken in 50 million migrants, Europe has taken 80 million, Germany alone 15 million. Germany has 25% of the population of the USA, so considerably more in comparison.

      France and UK had about the same level of migration, each below 10 million.

      Source:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

  • last 2 years and just went unreported/misreported. [snopes.com]

    The C.I.A. has been warning the White House since at least early February that China has vastly understated its coronavirus infections and that its count could not be relied upon as the United States compiles predictive models to fight the virus, according to current and former intelligence officials.

    American intelligence agencies have concluded that the Chinese government itself does not know the extent of the virus and is as blind as the rest of the world. Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

  • We need fewer humans on this planet, not more.

"Joy is wealth and love is the legal tender of the soul." -- Robert G. Ingersoll

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