Walmart Employees Complain Its Anti-Shoplifting AI Is Buggy, Inaccurate, and Dangerous (arstechnica.com) 116
Walmart uses "Everseen" AI technology in thousands of its stores "to prevent shoplifting at registers and self-checkout kiosks," reports Wired.
But some Walmart workers claim that instead it's often failed to stop actual instances of stealing, misidentified innocuous behavior as theft -- and made it harder for them to social distance: The workers said they had been upset about Walmart's use of Everseen for years and claimed colleagues had raised concerns about the technology to managers but were rebuked. They decided to speak to the press, they said, after a June 2019 Business Insider article reported Walmart's partnership with Everseen publicly for the first time. The story described how Everseen uses AI to analyze footage from surveillance cameras installed in the ceiling and can detect issues in real time, such as when a customer places an item in their bag without scanning it. When the system spots something, it automatically alerts store associates...
In interviews, the workers, whose jobs include knowledge of Walmart's loss-prevention programs, said their top concern with Everseen was false positives at self-checkout. The employees believe that the tech frequently misinterprets innocent behavior as potential shoplifting, which frustrates customers and store associates, and leads to longer lines. "It's like a noisy tech, a fake AI that just pretends to safeguard," said one worker.
The coronavirus pandemic has given their concerns more urgency. One Concerned Home Office Associate said they worry false positives could be causing Walmart workers to break social-distancing guidelines unnecessarily. When Everseen flags an issue, a store associate needs to intervene and determine whether shoplifting or another problem is taking place. In an internal communication from April obtained by WIRED, a corporate Walmart manager expressed strong concern that workers were being put at risk by the additional contact necessitated by false positives and asked whether the Everseen system should be turned off to protect customers and workers.
Before COVID-19, "it wasn't ideal, it was a poor customer experience," the worker said. "AI is now creating a public health risk."
But some Walmart workers claim that instead it's often failed to stop actual instances of stealing, misidentified innocuous behavior as theft -- and made it harder for them to social distance: The workers said they had been upset about Walmart's use of Everseen for years and claimed colleagues had raised concerns about the technology to managers but were rebuked. They decided to speak to the press, they said, after a June 2019 Business Insider article reported Walmart's partnership with Everseen publicly for the first time. The story described how Everseen uses AI to analyze footage from surveillance cameras installed in the ceiling and can detect issues in real time, such as when a customer places an item in their bag without scanning it. When the system spots something, it automatically alerts store associates...
In interviews, the workers, whose jobs include knowledge of Walmart's loss-prevention programs, said their top concern with Everseen was false positives at self-checkout. The employees believe that the tech frequently misinterprets innocent behavior as potential shoplifting, which frustrates customers and store associates, and leads to longer lines. "It's like a noisy tech, a fake AI that just pretends to safeguard," said one worker.
The coronavirus pandemic has given their concerns more urgency. One Concerned Home Office Associate said they worry false positives could be causing Walmart workers to break social-distancing guidelines unnecessarily. When Everseen flags an issue, a store associate needs to intervene and determine whether shoplifting or another problem is taking place. In an internal communication from April obtained by WIRED, a corporate Walmart manager expressed strong concern that workers were being put at risk by the additional contact necessitated by false positives and asked whether the Everseen system should be turned off to protect customers and workers.
Before COVID-19, "it wasn't ideal, it was a poor customer experience," the worker said. "AI is now creating a public health risk."
AntiSocial Personality Disorder (Score:1)
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Re: AntiSocial Personality Disorder (Score:2)
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"Is this article a joke? "
We can't possibly know, nobody here reads them.
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Welcome to Slashdot!
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Were going to have a society for of sociopaths when were done.
you have that already
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Re: Why is "social distancing" still around? (Score:1)
What's your definition?
Re: Why is "social distancing" still around? (Score:2)
Re: Why is "social distancing" still around? (Score:1)
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Yes, a TSA agent grabbing your nuts at the security checkpoint is somehow going to stop a terrorist from downing a plane during ascent with an RPG.
But we live in a society that creates dullards and punishes the smart. The schools are structured to create unthinking robots who are not a threat to the status-quo. One day, this will really bite us in the ass real hard.
Re: Why is "social distancing" still around? (Score:1)
...downing a plane during ascent with an RPG
If his aim is that good, a potato gun would suffice. May I suggest less stream-of-consciousness stupidity and more... fuck it; you're beyond hope.
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Planes tend to still be pretty low to the ground just outside an airport (and just outside TSA juristiction). Yeah, an RPG is doable, provided the terrorist has good aim.
Scince you are so smart, you should tell the police department to not worry when there are maniacs firing handguns at their helicopters.
Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia (Score:2)
Just FYI, US military aircraft were downed by RPGs in Iraq, in Afghanistan, and in Somalia.
RPGs were initially designed to take out tanks, at a range of about 200 meters. Insurgents use them at ranges of up to 950 meters.
A 747 taking off is obviously much larger than a tank, about a seven times larger target than the RPG was designed for. It's 200 meters high a quarter mile from the runway, as it flies over the highway frontage road leading to the airport.
To quote you - fuck it; you're beyond hope.
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Got any references on US military aircraft being downed by RPGs? I'm aware of rotorcraft being downed by RPGs in those theaters but this is the first I've heard of any successful RPG attacks on fixed-wing aircraft.
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I've been social distancing long before COVID-19 and not because of any other disease.
It's be cause I have come across too many people who think it's their purpose in life to fuck with others, to survelle them, to build up a rotten and very false dossier on them to spread around to their other equally rotten friends for the lulz, or to somehow feel superior. Others are just annoying, repulsive, or downright creepy (as in "my life may be in danger" creepy) as fuck, and I would not want to be around them at a
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"Machines just do what they've been programmed to you"
do. DO! Argh!
(me slaps forehead hard)
Re: Why is "social distancing" still around? (Score:1)
Re:Why is "social distancing" still around? (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Why is "social distancing" still around? (Score:5, Informative)
The point of social distancing is in part to slow things down enough that we can get test and trace up and running at a large scale. Social distancing is important, along with masks and test and trace. The entire point of doing a lockdown is to get other measures, especially test and trace, up and running. South Korea didn't need to do nearly as much because they had such a system already in place (in part due to prior experience with SARS and in part due to worry about biological warfare from North Korea). Unfortunately, due to a lack of serious federal coordination, the US hasn't really set up nearly enough ready for the tracing end of test-and-trace. Only six US states are about ready for systematic test and trace https://testandtrace.com/state-data/ [testandtrace.com].
As for the idea about destroying the economy, the fact is that people started avoiding restaurants and similar locations before the lockdowns or other official policies were in place, and have been extremely hesitant to go out even in locations where lockdowns have been removed. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-didnt-wait-for-their-governors-to-tell-them-to-stay-home-because-of-covid-19/ [fivethirtyeight.com] https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/most-americans-think-its-too-soon-to-return-to-what-life-was-like-pre-pandemic/ [fivethirtyeight.com]. In order to get the economy back up, we have to actually get rid of this virus or crush it into such small numbers that there's some actual safety. Social distancing is a major part of that. It isn't a coincidence that economists and health experts are largely in agreement about what needs to be done here https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/from-our-experts/economists-and-epidemiologists-not-at-odds-but-in-agreement-we-need-a-broad-based-covid-19-testing-survey [jhu.edu].
Re: Why is "social distancing" still around? (Score:1)
Re: Why is "social distancing" still around? (Score:5, Insightful)
Now then being serious, my point was that you can't do all this stuff forever or until there's a magic cure/vaccine found, if ever.
That's true, and that also completely ignores the entire point that we're trying to set up test and trace which is a major part of what has worked effectively in countries like New Zealand and South Korea. This also ignores that even without test and trace, doing this helps us prevent the hospitals from being overwhelmed by having everyone sick all at once, or prevents basic failures of infrastructure (such as what would happen if a large fraction of people at a power plant got sick). People have already tried to explain most of this to you, and you don't seem to be listening.
Obviously this was too subtle for slashdot so I got modded down. Typical and expected from the small thinkers here quivering in their basements behind locked doors with their masks on.
More likely you are getting modded down for arguing against what is an obvious strawman position and not actually responding to what people are saying.
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Re: Why is "social distancing" still around? (Score:4, Informative)
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I've always had the thought in the back in my mind is that the whole COVID thing is a dry run to see how much the populace will take before they rebel, and to analyse and correct any mistakes.
COVID (SARS) is the second SARS epidemic. When the first SARS epidemic hit, it did not spread like it did this time.
In the beginning, we had Trump playing dumb in his tweets, downplaying the risk. As it spread, he hurridly changed his narritive, but I think this was intentional. Don't think it's at all limited to Trump
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What age cutoff would you suggest for quarantining people for their own safety while the disease runs its course with the younger, healthier ones. (letting age be a proxy for health for the sake of discussion).
Something between 20% and 40% of COVID-19 deaths are to people of working age (using ~70 as a cutoff age). Many younger people are in contact with older people through families etc. The median age of US workers is 42, so there are a fair number of "older" workers out there.
Uncontrolled, with a ~0
Re: Why is "social distancing" still around? (Score:2)
The sub 1% mortality rates (which are optimistic at best) only apply with good medical care. If you let it run rip the hospitals become overwhelmed and the mortality rate jumps significantly. Precise number not known at the moment but 3-5% would not be unreasonable. With the R number at least 3 if not higher when you let it rip, you are looking at millions of dead in a time frame of under 6 months in the USA. If you think that would be livable with you are a deluded twit.
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Social distancing is going on because the pandemic hasn't stopped.
Do you honestly think that this pandemic will ever "stop"? Just wait until BLM finds out that COVID-19 is racist.
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Slowing things down merely gives it time to mutate. This makes it much harder to develop a vaccine. The largest chunk of dead Americans happened because nursing homes and long term care facilities were not protected the way they should have been. Where I live over 80% of the people that died were killed in nursing homes. How is that not manslaughter?
If we had allowed it to quickly spread and paired that with protecting the vulnerable it would have been over in a few weeks with no chance to infect the nursin
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Slowing things down merely gives it time to mutate. This makes it much harder to develop a vaccine.
This is not how mutation works. Quite the opposite in fact. Mutations occur generally during reproduction events. Slowing things down means there are fewer total reproduction events in the same span of time, so that means fewer chances for mutation.
Re: Why is "social distancing" still around? (Score:1)
*We are now firmly in the era of Newspeak/Doublespeak, where things actually mean the complete opposite of what we think.
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It's a bunch of anti-social bs.
speaking of anti-social B.S...
Pfft. (Score:1)
Re: Pfft. (Score:1)
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LOL!
I agree with the AI, if you're dumb enough to shop at Wally World, you're probably trying to steal something. Maybe you didn't notice yourself doing it?
Re: Pfft. (Score:1)
If the same object is higher price at a corporation you like more does that make it better?
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Better more reliable service, they do not sell the crap object wallmart sell, they sell a better object, after sales service and support, you hate wallmart and have no desire to feed their greed and make them even worse. See a whole bunch of reasons, not one of which is your greed.
Re: Pfft. (Score:2)
I'll buy the cheaper one from Walmart. No reason not to unless you just hate Walmart. Which is fine. But that's not an economic or quality based decision.
Re: Pfft. (Score:4, Insightful)
The Walmart object is the same as the higher priced and magically better but the same in the same box from the same manufacturer object.
That may be true in some cases but not all. I don't have much interest in Walmart one way or the other, but have read articles over the years about manufacturers who made "Walmart special" products in order to meet the Walmart's demands on pricing. I believe Snapper was one company covered in such an article. Basically the way it works is Walmart offers to buy a bazillion of a specific product for less that the cost to manufacture it or none at any higher price. The manufacture looks at their costs and figures out how to make a similar product by cutting corners and sells it to Walmart but continues selling the original product to other retailers without cutting corners.
This can work if enough people avoid Walmart and continue to buy the original product elsewhere. In that case it's just market segmentation, selling a lower quality product to the people who wouldn't have bought the higher quality product. But it can backfire if the sales at Walmart cannibalize the sales of the better quality product elsewhere to the point that the manufacturer no longer sells enough quantity of the better quality version to cover their fixed costs of making multiple versions.
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Often when I use the self check out, some thing goes afoul with the process, and everything grinds to a halt. I have to stay there and wait for an employee for assistance. It might be something as simple as the scale not registering what was placed in the bag, but I end up having to wait for the cashier to 'unlock' the machine. I got to the point where I said "screw it", and went back to waiting in line.
I hope by now they managed to make the machines much less flaky.
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The machines themselves are very reliable as they are pretty much the same technology that cashiers have been using for years, what's buggy is the mechanisms which assume every customer is a criminal.
I had a friend who used to work as a cashier, whenever he used the self scan machines he was too fast for them and triggered these mechanisms.
If you have too many items that they don't all fit on the scales, you trigger the mechanisms. You end up with precarious balancing.
If you bring your own bags they add ext
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There are some items that are so small and light that the scale simply does not register them. I know these scales are not high precision instruments (and likely not well maintained) and stuff being shifted around in the bag as you put your items in can cause all kinds of false readings which triggers the lock up.
I recently went to a pharmacy which only had the self check outs and IIRC, they did not have the scale. I was able to scan, bag, and pay with no problem.
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What they need is some AI to allow scanning at full speed for people who know what they're doing. After scanning an item, there's a stupidly long delay before the laser will register another bar code to prevent duplicate scans. It wouldn't take a lot of intelligence to have that enforced softly with some pattern recognition instead of by a hard timer. If you're already pointing a camera at the station, you can tell if it's a duplicate scan or a legitimate item.
Wal-Mart is the only store where I hate inte
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Slow scanners (Score:2)
Reminded of container deposit machines that often aren't ready to take the next one as fast as I can get it out.
The stores where they're counted by hand are so much quicker
I almost never use the self checkouts (Score:3)
Unless I only have a couple items.
Most cashiers at any store can scan and bag your items at about a 1000% faster rate than you can at the self checkout.
I aways use the self checkouts (Score:2)
Why do I want some nosy cashier pawing over my stuff?
"I need a price check on extra-small condoms, register five."
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The store I shop at doesn't have either.
I fill my cart, I scan my items, I leave, no problem.
When the security scanner beeps because I didn't touch the right part of the item to the NFID-clearing-pad, I try to show somebody my receipt but they just wave me through; because they were already keeping an eye on things, they made sure I scanned the big stuff. They obviously have people in the back watching cameras because you hear, "Security Check to Section C, Security Check to Section C." But no hassle, and n
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Section C in this store is the fitting rooms in the clothing area. Unsurprisingly.
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A friend worked at a Disney Store. Over there, when the loudspeaker said "a customer" needed help on aisle such-and-such, that meant some employee thought somebody might be stealing. People whom they thought actually needed help were always called "guests" -- never customers. Customers meant thieves.
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We don't have that.
Everybody wears a mask, and we peak around intersections and wait.
We don't have to be told to social distance. Everybody is doing it.
Most of them are Democrats.
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Short of pruning the tree, that's where we're at until we get more robotics. I can't wait for the
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Most cashiers at any store can scan and bag your items at about a 1000% faster rate than you can at the self checkout.
Self-checkout has been around for so long that by now I have more experience checking out my own things than some of the cashiers. But the real time savings is standing in line, the line for self-checkout is a lot faster.
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It's faster so long as the self scan machines are not being jammed up by people who have no idea how to use them...
It's almost as bad as the cashiers who waste time making idle chatter with customers while a long queue is forming. If you wanna chat, wait until a quiet period when you're not delaying other peoples days.
Re: I almost never use the self checkouts (Score:1)
I've watched my place at self check out vs. a few randoms in regular lines. They are usually still waiting to put their crap on the check out counter when I'm at the exit with all my stuff.
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Most cashiers at any store can scan and bag your items at about a 1000% faster rate than you can at the self checkout.
I can easily scan and bag as fast as most any cashier (assuming they don't have a dedicated bagger helping them). The main trick is to remember that most scan codes can be picked up by holding the item upright and giving a little twist like the cashiers do; you usually don't have to look for the scan code yourself.
The problem with self checkouts in my experience is that about 2% to 5% of the items fail to weigh properly on the verification scale, which shuts down the whole process until you get the attentio
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In my experience I can scan and bag faster than 90% of checkers. The only time I am slower is when I'm entering produce codes. If I have much produce without bar codes I don't check myself out. But the only food I buy at Walmart is peanut butter, as they have my favorite brand much cheaper than almost anywhere else (and at least slightly cheaper than anyone else.)
I'm also much better at bagging in general, I use less bags and my food doesn't get squashed, and all my fridge and freezer stuff is bagged togeth
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The best option is "scan as you shop". They all have different names for it. Basically they give you a hand held scanner and you zap barcodes as you go around the shop, putting the items directly into your bags. No separate scanning and packing stages. All you have to do at the checkout is pay.
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The self-checkout never goes off-shift, forcing you to move to another line. I had that happen to me twice on the same trip to a store.
Re: I almost never use the self checkouts (Score:2)
In my experience cashiers always finish the customers already in line before going on break or whatever
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Unless I only have a couple items.
Most cashiers at any store can scan and bag your items at about a 1000% faster rate than you can at the self checkout.
True but at least in self checkout you don't have to worry about can goods being tossed on top of bread.
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How quaint, what are these plastic bags you speak of? Sounds expensive and environmentally unfriendly buying new bags every time you shop.
My number one reason to avoid Walmart (Score:2)
When I go to Walmart (which I do only in emergency, it accounts for less than 1% of my annual brick and mortar shopping), I get spooky feeling that I can get into trouble for an innocuous mistake. I am very forgetful and have done things like going out of store without paying and then reentering and apologizing and paying. Have done this at restaurants too. In all cases, I have been treated well by retailers, 100% of the time. Though, no security has ever approached me, I just get the feeling that I may not
Re:My number one reason to avoid Walmart (Score:5, Funny)
When I go to Walmart (which I do only in emergency, it accounts for less than 1% of my annual brick and mortar shopping), I get spooky feeling that I can get into trouble for an innocuous mistake.
I avoid going there because I worry a big yellow smiley face is gonna come bouncing down the aisle and crush my skull.
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Only if there is a police riot happening, and then maybe.
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
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Hey I fed that game a fair number of my quarters when I was young...
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Happened to me. (Score:2)
I had to return to the self-checkout after realizing that one of the larger items I had was neither bagged nor paid for.
I had taken items from the cart, scanned them, bagged them, and when the area filled up, started placing the bags back in the cart. Even though I still had unscanned items in the cart. So now I make certain that I don't place items back into the cart until I've emptied it of unpaid items. In my case I was fortunate that I noticed it first, but I get the impression I could have gotten
and now it will go into riot mode the system may f (Score:1)
and now it will go into riot mode the system may auto flag blacks and that is bad.
It is! (Score:5, Informative)
Actually went to a WalMart today. Apparently I stole something; scanned first item, no problem, wife scanned another and it was flagged. Clerk came over, reviewed the video, re-scanned the second item, I scanned the third thing. Wife was checking the receipt and the first thing never scanned through.
Sorry, Walmart...
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Real life Hal... (Score:1)
"I know what's best Dave. I am never wrong Dave. I'm sorry Dave, but I'm afraid *you* can't do that......"
I have lost track of the number of times I could not get a simple issue resolved, one that under normal circumstances would take a clerk 2 seconds to fix because "the computer won't let me".
Clerks broken into submission almost to the point where they have to ask permission to use the bathroom, and fluky AI is a VERY bad combination.
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Just a reminder that the problem begins with humans. Even if everything goes full on Skynet, it was HUMANS and their bad decision making that caused it.
They nabbed me (Score:5, Interesting)
I entered through the garden section, got a cart and put a big sword fern in it. Then I wandered through the toy section and then I actually paid for something in electronics that I had to get an associate to unlock for me. (I don't even remember what, but it was only about $20 or so). Then I meandered around some more and picked up some groceries.
After going through the self-checkout, they were waiting for me. They seemed pretty sure I had hidden something underneath that plant I guess. I didn't raise a fuss, but it wasn't a good customer experience. Maybe they'll implement facial recognition so they'll know I shop there all the time and maybe they could even put me of a "safe" list.
And I do mean they were waiting for me. Apparently I look scary enough that it took more than one person to ask if they could see my receipt. That's the only time that ever happened. It just seemed weird and absurd to me.
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I walked out of TK Maxx (clothing shop) once and the alarms went off. Guy came rushing over, asked to see receipt and bags. I declined, I hand't stolen anything and didn't feel a search of my property by this minimum wage rando was justified.
He was not very amused and threatened to call the police, which I suggested he do. Manager came out, PCSOs (fake cops) wondered over. After a while I noticed that one garment I bought still had the tag on it. Fortunately I carry a very strong magnet with me which remove
Re:They nabbed me (Score:4, Informative)
Right, and I would just ring up my credit card company and dispute the transaction. They would get nowhere with that tactic in the UK.
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No I don't mean they charge your card, they can't without you present anyway in the UK. I mean they send you a bill and when you don't pay they take you to court.
Happened to a friend of mine. Her toddler grabbed something and put it in her bag without her noticing. Ended up costing her about 60 quid.
Might have been her store card rather than credit card.
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Unbeknownst to me, for years my winter jacket had a security tag still sewn inside.. so I'd set off the door alarms going into and out of walmart. I did not frequent walmart enough to figure it out immediately.
Of course entering the store, they'd give me a weird look when the alarm went off. Leaving, though.. "Sir, an I please see your receipt". My response "No thank you" and I
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You could have refused to let them see your receipt. They have no authority to detain you, which is basically what that is.
While very true, there is one important caveat: if you shop at a member's only club, such as Costco, Sam's Club, or the like, a typical condition of your membership is that you do give them the authority to check your receipt before you leave. In fact, a family member of mine was talking with someone at a Sam's a few weeks ago after they had some technical difficulties with the Sam's app, and they found out from the employee that Sam's doesn't actually charge your card until they scan your receipt at the do
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They might also ban you from the store
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LOL, Sounds like a good practical joke.
OK, It's funny to us.
"Approval needed" (Score:3)
As I'm not a cashier, I have no idea how common unreadable barcodes are in absolute terms - but I'm sure having the register call you over for such false alarms gets discouraging.
GASP! (Score:3)
Dangerous anthropomorphism (Score:2)
AI is now creating a public health risk
No. Walmart is creating a public health risk, by relying on a known-to-be-defective technology and forcing its employees to act on the often-false information it provides. Whether AI is reliable, or even actually exists, is not central to this discussion. We mustn't blame technology for the moral failings of corporations. We need to remain clear and explicit regarding the fact that the blame belongs to a 'who', not a 'what', and in this case the 'who' is the corporate person known as Walmart.