Trump Administration Lists Some of Amazon's Foreign Websites as 'Notorious' Counterfeit Markets (politico.com) 142
The Trump administration Wednesday included Amazon's foreign websites in Canada, the U.K., Germany, France and India in its annual report on "notorious markets" for counterfeit foreign goods, the first time a U.S. company's overseas operations have been listed. From a report: The inclusion does not carry any penalty, other than the embarrassment for Amazon of being listed alongside other websites and physical markets where counterfeit goods are sold. But the Seattle-based e-commerce giant said it strongly disagreed with the action, accusing the Trump administration of ignoring its efforts to make sure only legitimate products are sold on its website. "This purely political act is another example of the administration using the U.S. government to advance a personal vendetta against Amazon," a company spokesperson said. "Amazon makes significant investments in proactive technologies and processes to detect and stop bad actors and potentially counterfeit products from being sold in our stores."
Woah.. (Score:2)
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Consumer protection laws exist so that the customer does not have to check the authenticity of a product, and is guaranteed to get what he pays for.
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Laws against murder are even stricter...
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Indeed, which is why the laws against it have to be much stricter. And yet, it still happens.
Which means, "consumer protection laws" — while useful as punishment after the fraud — still need to be complemented with personal awareness and following of common-sense practices.
Which is the point LenKagetsu seems to have missed...
Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
"But the Seattle-based e-commerce giant said it strongly disagreed with the action, accusing the Trump administration of ignoring its efforts to make sure only legitimate products are sold on its website."
I think that Amazon is ignoring Amazon's failure to make sure only legitimate products are sold on its website.
Re:Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
Politics aside, who the hell is going to argue that Amazon doesn't sell a bunch of sketchy garbage.
Re:Well... (Score:4, Insightful)
After the stink about how Amazon uses their internal data from 3rd-party sellers to figure out what product they should add to their Amazon Basics line, there's an argument to be made that Amazon itself sells "counterfeit" products.
Anybody who thinks selling on Amazon is a good idea is either a scam artist, a sucker, or Amazon.
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Alas, the problem is, like eBay, Amazon has the shoppers. Sellers don't use eBay because they like their policies, or use Amazon because they adore Jeff Bezos. No, people actually sho
Re: Well... (Score:2)
Who's going to argue that Amazon sells sketchy garbage only on their non-US sites?
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It is likely different parts of the government, that mind the foreign and the domestic businesses.
They may all be parts of the "Trump Administration", but are, in fact, subject to different laws, procedures, and criteria...
the devil sometimes tells the truth (Score:3, Insightful)
Indeed Wormwood your best strategy is to point to the other's hypocrisy to divert attention from your own. Trump is as close to the anticrhrist as possible if we were judging solely on cynical manipluation for person gain at any cost. (He's probably not the antichrist in terms of ushering in the four hoursemen, merely three of them). But amazon, like facebook, like youtube is of course vulnerable to the accusation that it's economies of scale are achieved by ignore all ethics on carrying legal ethical co
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I think Trump can go fuck himself in the ass. Objectively, Amazon sells a bunch of sketch garbage.
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Re: Well... (Score:2)
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Let's be honest about this. It's not that CNN or any liberal in the US was mourning his death so much as criticizing the way he was attacked on Iraqi soil without Iraqi approval while he was supposedly on a trip to ease tensions. Also, he was a general in the military of a sovereign nation who we have not declared war on.
Whether or not the purpose of his visit to Iraq was to ease tensions or not, killing him certainly did ratchet up tensions. America is like the drunk guy at the bar who starts picking on
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This literally never happened.
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>"I think that Amazon is ignoring Amazon's failure to make sure only legitimate products are sold on its website."
Indeed. I was going to say:
"accusing the Trump administration of ignoring its efforts to make sure only legitimate products are sold on its website."
Acknowledging or ignoring "efforts" doesn't change the outcome.
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Theres a fine line Amazon is going to struggle toeing when interfering with their market place listings - too much interference, erring on the side of caution, and you hit antitrust issues because they are limiting competitors ability to compete with Amazon (because Amazons own products are much easier for Amazon to verify than a marketplace product, so more marketplace sellers are going to see restrictions while Amazon can continue to sell). Too little interference and you get these sort of headlines - to
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You're not wrong, but I think it's a bit weird that, say, the *Canadian* version of the Amazon site specifically is somehow worse for this than the American version. Really, if you're gonna list one, you should probably list them all.
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"I think that Amazon is ignoring Amazon's failure "
Possibly or probably. You must ask yourself what is the real motivation for the President's Administration to treat this specific and successful business as the red headed bastard child.
Surely it couldn't be WaPo could it?
Unfortunately plausible (Score:5, Insightful)
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And Bezos' has more money than him.
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" Bezos as responsible for the very negative coverage coming from the Washington Post (which Bezos owns)"
Absolutely correct. It seems to be a "who's got the bigger dick" causing Bezos to have the POTUS eye.
Jeeze.. most "Penis size" issues are easily fixed by buying a Porsche. But, these two have been fucking with each other for too long. Let's hope the consumer isn't harmed.
I've never purchased a counterfeit item from Amazon, but if I had I wouldn't have a worry that Amazon would correct the issue without
Re:Unfortunately plausible (Score:5, Informative)
For one, the false claim that the USPS loses money on Amazon deliveries [npr.org] is controversial. I'd say that your claim that "he's correct" is also controversial -- I'm controverting it right now.
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"For one, the false claim that the USPS loses money on Amazon deliveries is controversial. "
I don't know. But, I do know post carriers that after 10 years make close to 100K a year. And, I do know that as a business, USPS is a failure and has run at the tax payer expense forever.
And I do know that USPS like the Amtrak and the US rail system have national security value.
But they, as well as Amtrak need to behave as any business would behave.
And, quite honestly regardless of your political thoughts, w
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For one, the false claim that the USPS loses money on Amazon deliveries [npr.org] is controversial. I'd say that your claim that "he's correct" is also controversial -- I'm controverting it right now
You do realize your linked article doesn't prove your point - that the post office is losing money on Amazon deliveries - because the expert quoted even admits the deal is sealed. He then goes on to point out the profitability of other delivery contracts - not the one USPO signed with Amazon. And later, t
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You're only 16 hours late to the "what about other costs" argument. Yet again [uspsoig.gov]:
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Yes, but the linked article doesn't cover those details. Even if everything you mentioned above is true, Amazon may still be paying far less than what others may be paying, hence the "losing money" argument. From the perspective of a businessman (i.e. Trump), a product which sells for less than what others would have paid for it is still "losing money" even if the price exceeds the company's cost of bring it to market. That is, a product can both bring in a profit and still lose money for the company.
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Oh, it does cover those details -- "the Postal Service does not lose money delivering Amazon's or anyone else's packages." The problem is that people keep speculating as to more specific costs that have to be specifically addressed by other material.
That's not Trump's claim: "the taxpayers are paying for that money because it delivers pack
Re:Unfortunately plausible (Score:5, Insightful)
No, they didn't prove that Trump is correct. Trump claims that the USPS is subsidizing Amazon. It is not. It cannot [prc.gov]:
You're arguing that Market Dominant products that are losing money, like First Class Mail, should be subsidized by Competitive products that are not losing money, like packages shipped by Amazon and companies like it. That's a different argument, and completely antithetical to conservative ideology, but you go ahead and attempt to make it.
Re:Unfortunately plausible (Score:4, Insightful)
First class mail has been losing money for a long time AFAIK. It has been pseudo-subsidized by the tons of junk mail everybody hates.
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Not period. Even if First Class Mail and other Market Dominant products are declining, you haven't articulated any reason for why the rates charged for those products should not cover their costs. You're demanding a cross-product subsidy. Justify it with something other than "Period."
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Not period. Even if First Class Mail and other Market Dominant products are declining, you haven't articulated any reason for why the rates charged for those products should not cover their costs. You're demanding a cross-product subsidy. Justify it with something other than "Period."
You're mistaken. 1st Class *should* cover itself, plus some portion of those fixed overhead costs. Likewise every part of their business. If 1st Class isn't covering its share, then it should also be raised.
Their business model in the past has been to lose money on 1st Class, break even on packages, and make up for it with junk mail. It's time to price everything based on what it costs.
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I'm not. I precisely quoted what you said. You also said, and I quote, "they're losing money overall because they expected 1st Class to be profitable enough to cover the fixed costs in addition to the marginal costs of the 1st Class items."
That's not what you were seeking earlier, now was it.
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You've replied to the wrong person [slashdot.org] in this conversation.
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You're mistaken. 1st Class *should* cover itself, plus some portion of those fixed overhead costs. Likewise every part of their business. If 1st Class isn't covering its share, then it should also be raised.
1st Class is required by law to be universal and affordable. This means the USPS cannot do what a private company operating under the rules of the free market would do: cut service to unprofitable areas or increase prices.
That's the whole point of subsidizing: making stuff happen that the free market would not make happen otherwise. You want universal service at affordable prices? The free market would not deliver that, so you have to pay for it.
You don't want to subsidize anymore? You have to accept the ru
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BTW it's an interesting fantasy, but Market Dominant products do not cover "fixed costs" with Competitive products only required to c
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Because it's cheaper to deliver [usps.com]. It's mailed in bulk -- at least 200 pieces or 50 pounds -- not individual letters picked up from individual addresses. It's discounted for being separated by carrier routes rather than mailed in a big randomized pile. It's discounted for automation-compliant addressing -- barcoded address information -- not solely handwritten or typewritten text.
The USPS is a delivery
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After all, what would a vice president at the USPS know about it, eh?
Here's your costs, overhead, and rates data [prc.gov]. Have fun with it.
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What the literal fuck? I'm not digging through that wall of links. What is this, school?
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You wanted data. There's your data. It's even digested by the Postal Regulatory Commission in each report. At this point you're simply demanding that people do your work for you.
re: USPS losing money on deliveries (Score:2)
I think the only controversy comes in because it's commonly stated that a previous Republican administration's mandate that the USPS pre-fund its retirement programs for far into the future was the #1 reason it keeps posting huge financial losses. Since that same requirement doesn't exist for the military or any other government agency, it's hard to understand why it's imposed on only the USPS.
Last time I saw financials calculated was during the last recession, when the USPS threatened to close many post o
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Yeah, but *SEVENTY-FIVE YEARS* in advance? That's funding benefits for people that haven't even been BORN yet. Why should they be paying for benefits for people that don't exist, let alone people that don't even work for them yet?
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You know, you're a partisan hack if you blame Republicans for the bill that required the USPS to actually fund their pension accounts. Here's the bill:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/... [congress.gov]
Here's how it went down:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/... [congress.gov]
Passed in the House by voice vote, and in the Senate without amendment by unanimous consent.
The looney left claims this bill was created by Republicans to destroy the USPS. Example:
https://www.salon.com/2012/03/... [salon.com]
"This death hug was part of the Postal Accountability a
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If Trump has an issue with the USPS rates, he should take it up with the Postal Regulatory Commission, which set the rates. It is made up of 5 commissioners, 3 of which were appointed by Donald Trump. So the people he put in place are the ones with the power to decide the rate and they have decided they do not need to be raised. Either Trump picked bad commissioners (which would be par for the course with his appointments) or he picked competent people and they have decided the rates are not bad. So which i
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"he would bail them out when they raise their rates"
The USPS cannot raise its rates of its own accord more than inflation without the approval of the Postal Regulatory Commission: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org].
Re: Unfortunately plausible (Score:2)
A friend of mine said the USPS cannot raise rates enough because of Congress, and I said that's sick, really? What do I know, you should look into it though.
Remember Fulfilled by Amazon's Setup? (Score:4, Insightful)
Remember how Fulfilled by Amazon mixed everything with the same SKU together?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/w... [forbes.com]
So if a counterfeiter had 10 counterfeit items, they'd get mixed in a big pile with all the real ones, and then any seller using FBA would have a chance of selling the counterfeits.
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Fulfilled by Amazon
Sounds like the company's brand competitor to Adam & Eve.
Amazon Efforts Ha Ha Ha (Score:2)
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Do you know what one of the best features of the www is?
Well, clearly you don't, so I'll tell you: It's the ability to link to other resources.
I "looked into" Forearm Forklift, obviously their relationship with Amazon is just fine as they're still selling through Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/stores/... [amazon.com]
So whatever problem you think they have with Amazon is apparently all in your head. If there's something else about forklifts you feel everyone needs to know about, maybe provide a reference next time.
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He was banking on people not chasing his factoids.
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Yeah, but now add the word "counterfeit" to your search terms. Quite a few hits from 2016--2018. I didn't see anything about whether or how it was resolved, but it clearly was a real problem for the company at least as recently as a couple years ago. foearm forklift counterfeit [google.com]
I can't find any articles talking about the company being forced to issue refunds for counterfeit goods, but a search for amazon commingling stock brings up a link to instructions from amazon on their policy and how vendors can opt ou
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> obviously their relationship with Amazon is just fine as they're still selling through Amazon
How does that follow? There's a *lot* of businesses that get screwed by Amazon, yet continue doing business there. I work for one. They've become the de-facto online marketplace, you play by their rules and suck it up when they screw you over, or lose access to their huge customer base. All other online sales channels combined may only provide a fraction of the sales as Amazon. So long as they don't screw
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There's a *lot* of businesses that get screwed by Amazon, yet continue doing business there.
Well, there's your problem.
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News Flash - The US Amazon Store Does This Too (Score:1)
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Thing with amazon is that returns get sent back to a legitimate vendor, who is then forced to refund products they never sold.
Clearly Counterfiet (Score:5, Funny)
I mean, clearly they're knock-offs. Just look at the URL's:
https://www.amazon.com/ - Totally Legit!
https://www.amazon.ca/ - Obvious lookalike forgery
https://www.amazon.fr/ - Not fooling anyone!
https://www.amazon.in/ - Come on now, be serious!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ - WTF?!? Is that even allowed on the Webatubes?
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I mean, clearly they're knock-offs. Just look at the URL's:
https://www.amazon.com/ - Totally Legit!
https://www.amazon.ca/ - Obvious lookalike forgery
https://www.amazon.fr/ - Not fooling anyone!
https://www.amazon.in/ - Come on now, be serious!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ - WTF?!? Is that even allowed on the Webatubes?
Based on your posting history you'll love this one: https://amazondating.co/ [amazondating.co]
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Based on your posting history you'll love this one: https://amazondating.co/ [amazondating.co]
Total fraud. Not a single woman over 7 feet tall. No archers. 100% Catfish.
Just foriegn websites? (Score:4, Insightful)
Amazons US websites also sell counterfeit products. I bought an ASUS laptop power supply that was fake, the problem is, it has all of the certifications, but the UL/ETL testing has not been done for that specific supply (which costs thousands to tens of thousands of dollars) . I even looked up the codes and the testing had not been done and all of the stickers on the supply were fake.
The problem is the supplies could burn your house down, at which point you could sue Amazon for selling you a bad supply (and probably win) but it would be better if that didn't happen. Power supplies if not designed correctly can also electrocute you, and fake supplies have killed people. I think they should ban the US websites until they correct the problem
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Yeah, it's a well-known problem that Amazon -- even on the US store -- doesn't seem interested in investing resources to fix. I think they're going to need a multi-billion-dollar class action suit before they take it seriously. Sadly, this will probably only happen after a serious injury, loss of life, or massive property damage. https://www.theatlantic.com/te... [theatlantic.com]
They should include the main site as well... (Score:4, Insightful)
Amazon, even the main site, is flooded with counterfeit products... I recently ordered four carbon fiber bottle cages that are branded as Bontrager RXXXL cages which normally run $79 each and got all four for $60 including shipping costs. I guess they could be legit products from the same factory in whichever Asian nation Trek outsources production of their cages to but there's zero chance that they're legit at that price. Even for their dealers, Trek wholesales them at almost $50 each.
Re: They should include the main site as well... (Score:3, Insightful)
So why did you buy it? Every time you do that you contribute to the problem. Go buy the item from the legit dealer at the legit price.
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Why did I buy 20 grams of identical carbon fiber for less than 20% of the retail price to serve a purpose in an equally effective manner rather than spending 500% more on the exact same product??? Likely even produced in the same factory, using the same molds???
Is that a real question?
For all my faults, having more money than sense is sadly not one of them.
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For all my faults, having more money than sense is sadly not one of them.
Permit me to briefly explain why buying counterfeit products is bad.
Company A borrows money to develop a product. They hire employees and pay those people a salary. The people they hire include marketing, designers, testers, prototype manufacturers, etc. Those employees get health care benefits, the company pays unemployment taxes, pays taxes to the government, etc. Finally they have a product that works, and a design, which they patent. Then they provide the design to a manufacturing company B to manu
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What at an asshole. Admits to buying counterfeit goods, then attacks the person who explains to him why it is morally and economically wrong.
Please, quote the part where I said that Trek has a patent on bottle cages. Then prove to me that they don't.
He's not wrong. (Score:4, Interesting)
It's very frustrating. I live in Canada, and amazon.ca is rife with counterfeit stuff that makes it very hard to find legitimate products.
Let's take one product I've tried a few times to buy affordably, the Hakko FA-400 fume extractor. It's a simple device, basically a filter and a fan in a plastic frame, to suck away the toxic fumes while you solder. They're very distinct, though, in a strange shape with blue plastic and yellow labels.
If you go to amazon.com and search for "FA-400" you will find one single product entry, for the official unit from Hakko. I don't see any other versions (knockoffs) on the first few results pages.
If you go to amazon.ca and search for "FA-400", you will find three identical looking products on the first search result page. Only one of them, sold and shipped by a third party, looks legitimate, with the "Hakko" logo. This is actually a huge improvement, the last time I looked this up, there were many more fakes.
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There is also a question of what makes a counterfeit. If a knock-off tries to pass itself off as the original, that's obviously a counterfeit (and Amazon has a big problem with that, even in the U.S.). But what about a knock-off that doesn't have any of the original logos, or otherwise claim to be the original? Obviously the original producers like to claim so, but there are no laws being broken, and no deceptive business practices in action - just capitalists capitalizing on excess profits, which is the
As an occasional shopper on amazon.de ... (Score:2)
... that's not necessarily wrong.
Try getting face masks on amazon.de these days. Tons of listings but no way to tell what you'll actually get. You have to be really careful that you don't accidentally order from someone who ships from China with a shipping time of a month or more. Even the ones shipping from Germany are mostly sketchy vendors with horrible reviews because they apparently don't ship the pictured product or the quality makes them useless at best.
Other product categories often aren't much bett
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You have to be really careful that you don't accidentally order from someone who ships from China with a shipping time of a month or more.
That's a separate problem, but I agree with you. The lack of a "dispatches from my continent" filter is a horrible case of user-hostile design.
About bloody time (Score:2)
Amazon is the worlds largest reseller of stolen and or dodgy goods. Overtook eBay a long time ago.
Counterfeit products are rampant on Amazon (Score:3)
Jeff Bezos lives rent free (Score:2)
TBH (Score:2)
How is this political? (Score:4, Insightful)
Come on man, you are going to defend AMAZON *counterfeit sellers* just because you hate Trump so bad you can only disagree with whatever the administration does?
I came here to post a message about how this was at last an example of something so obvious, no-one could possibly disagree with it... Guess I'll not be making that post today!
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You have liberal sites already attacking Trump on this and claiming that amazon does a great job protecting against counterfiet products.
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Come on man, you are going to defend AMAZON *counterfeit sellers* just because you hate Trump so bad you can only disagree with whatever the administration does?
I don't think it's so much defending Amazon as pointing out that the Trump Admin only listed Amazon's foreign sites and not any foreign sites of other U.S. companies such as eBay even though Trump put them on notice [cnbc.com] last year about all the counterfeit goods [forbes.com] proliferating their sites [thehill.com].
Re:How is this political? (Score:4, Insightful)
Come on man, you are going to defend AMAZON *counterfeit sellers* just because you hate Trump so bad you can only disagree with whatever the administration does?
Why not both? I mean Amazon is a huge company so it stands to reason that counterfeiters would slip through.
Trump is a huge moron so it stands to reason that he somehow thinks counterfeiters are only a problem with Amazon's overseas site, and not the USA based one.
Fuck both of them. Amazon, and that president you take every opportunity to defend.
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If only we had elected Hillary. Nobody ever mysteriously dies when she's around.
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Does this Pope do any sermons that aren't Catholic?
Political. (Score:3)
All administrations mostly take political action. This one is just lousy at covering it up.
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Why doesn't it list the US site? (Score:2)
Are you asking why they haven't included the US site on the list? Because that's what I'm wondering. Just ask any of the people who got fake Chinese toilet paper off the site if there's a counterfeit problem, let alone all the too good to be true listings in electronics.
Even with fulfilled by Amazon, they can bin your stuff with those of other sellers for the "same SKU" and make it look like *you* are the one selling counterfeit goods, rather than exposing the fact that they mixed real and fake goods toge
I hate Trump as much as the next guy (Score:1)
Amazon has a pretty big counterfeit problem. I don't know enough about their efforts to stop it to say if they're legitimately trying or not (I doubt it) but the problem is very real and very widespread, and if Obama or even Bernie were in the office I would expect they'd still be called out.
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I agree - I've gotten a few obvious counterfeits from them, and probably several more non-obvious ones. And honestly I don't know that it even matters how legitimate their attempts to combat the problem are, they're obviously failing, and I don't see much practical difference between intentionally selling counterfeits, and selling counterfeits because you are incapable of avoiding it (while maintaining your profit margins - I'm sure it's easy enough to stop if money were no object). Maybe some difference i
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I've gotten the odd counterfeit too, although strictly speaking, it's VIA them rather then FROM them. (They're certainly more reliable the AliExpress.) If I review such, it consists of "1-Counterfeit". Don't know if Amazon or anyone else pays any attention, and even if they did, I don't know how you prevent poison-pen reviews and vendor identity swaps.
If Amazon wants to increment their evilness quotient, they could say that only Prime members can post reviews. They could rake in additional monies with that
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Your question is thus similar to "is water wet?".
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I'm not even going to read it, I already know what it's going to be, a drivel of corp-speak that says absolutely nothing and a lie about how they are "committed" to solving whatever problem is on the front page of the news on that particular day.
Amazon does not care about anything but its bottom line. A society would benefit from storming a warehouse, looting it, and leaving Amazon with the bill when they need to compensate their sellers.
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No alternative that working people can afford to get certain items right now, as they ran competition out of business. Just have to be careful. It's called monopoly, kid