Returned Online Purchases Often Sent To Landfill (www.cbc.ca) 95
How is the boom in online shopping influencing how much good product just goes to waste? Adria Vasil, an environmental journalist and managing editor of Corporate Knights magazine, answers: It's pretty staggering. The increase of the volume of returns has exploded by 95 per cent over the last five years. And in Canada alone, we are returning $46 billion worth of goods every year. And you think, OK, what's the big deal? Well, the problem is that -- especially when we're returning online -- a lot of these products end up going in landfills.
Why? You're returning something that's new and fine?
It actually costs a lot of companies more money to put somebody on the product, to visually eyeball it and say, is this up to standard, is it up to code? Is this going to get us sued? Did somebody tamper with this box in some way? And is this returnable? And if it's clothing, it has to be re-pressed and put back in a nice packaging. And for a lot of companies, it's just not worth it. So they will literally just incinerate it, or send it to the dumpster.
Do you have an example of something that we might all be doing that could lead to this kind of a waste?
Have you ever bought any clothes online? Further reading: The Painful, Costly Journey of Returned Goods -- and How You End Up Purchasing Some of Them Again.
Why? You're returning something that's new and fine?
It actually costs a lot of companies more money to put somebody on the product, to visually eyeball it and say, is this up to standard, is it up to code? Is this going to get us sued? Did somebody tamper with this box in some way? And is this returnable? And if it's clothing, it has to be re-pressed and put back in a nice packaging. And for a lot of companies, it's just not worth it. So they will literally just incinerate it, or send it to the dumpster.
Do you have an example of something that we might all be doing that could lead to this kind of a waste?
Have you ever bought any clothes online? Further reading: The Painful, Costly Journey of Returned Goods -- and How You End Up Purchasing Some of Them Again.
Second hand where? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Yea, because there are no second hand stores today....
Hummm.... Goodwill? Hospice? EBAY?
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It could result in loss sales to the primary brand holder because discounted versions are available through such second-level markets. It may also open more conduits for counterfeiters.
I'm not condoning the landfill behavior, only saying it could affect profits.
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I don't know why people buy things that they wouldn't want to keep. With online clothing purchases the one time I needed to return something (shipped wrong size) I
Re:Second hand where? (Score:4, Insightful)
Exactly, send the items to other locations across the globe where they can be donated or bought/sold cheaply in a market where they aren't usually available.
I think people return items due to buyers remorse, stupidity (they didn't know what they needed or didn't realize what they were buying), financial hardship, etc. I'm sure in some cases the items are actually defective, or the wrong item was sent at the fault of the retailer/fulfillment warehouse.
Sort of related:
Bought a graphics card a while back, and what was shipped to me was some asshole's 5th gen old card. Apparently he'd kept the newer card and shoved his old ass card in the box before claiming he'd returned it. FUCKER! In this case it was not sent to a landfill, nor did any competent person bother to check if the product sent back matched the fucking picture on the box before they tried to sell it again to me. On top of being shafted with the original shipment, I had to spend my time and an extra $1 to have that shit sent back and a new card ordered. At least I got a refund on the card. But that was wasted shipping expense and materials due to some asshole consumer's selfishness and retail dumb-fuckery.
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I'm Europe the law is that if an item ordered online is defective or not what you ordered then the seller pays the return shipping. You should not be out of pocket for their mistake.
Sometimes they just tell you to discard the item because it's not worth then paying the postage to get it back.
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The current method highly incentivizes consumers to buy-buy-buy, and if you don't like the product return it easily. Ie, push the red button for a one-click order (your credit card and DNA sample are already online), and you'll get stuff shipped to you automatically based upon analytics. There are a lot of people who use that approach because they're so in love with the idea of online buying. Rather than try on some clothes in the dressing room at the store, they'll buy 4 items online and try them on at ho
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they'll buy 4 items online and try them on at home then return 3 of them
There are companies that specifically offer this service
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...Rather than try on some clothes in the dressing room at the store, they'll buy 4 items online and try them on at home then return 3 of them. Absolutely stupid, lazy, and selfish behavior...
Except that many stores have reduced inventories by not carrying all of the items/styles in the store, and direct you online. Many customers still want to see and try on the products and if they can't do it in the store, they are going to find another option. It might be shop at another store, or it might be take advantage of shipping/return policies.
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I don't know why people buy things that they wouldn't want to keep...
I think a major reason if you go to the physical store to see/hold/compare an item before buying these days store inventories often do not carry all items or styles available, and they direct you to their website for more options. Then people to mimic the in-store experience at home by buying many more items to see and try them with the expectation of only keeping 1 or 2, and returning the rest. Clothing is the obvious example for this, but there are other products too.
Re:Second hand where? (Score:5, Funny)
This is happening. I learned of it about a decade ago when NewEgg was doing it.
Re:Second hand where? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Second hand where? (Score:4, Informative)
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I often buy a refurbished over a new one. Means someone actually looked at it. I've done very well with that.
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Or at Fry's, carefully shrink wrap that box up and sell as new, then when I open it and I find inside the original shrink wrap crumpled up into a ball next to the product. It was essentially a running joke that this happened so much; it was very common to buy games there and discover that the code had already been used. The line for returns there was sometimes as long as the line to check out. And the discount on boxes that did have the label were pretty anemic.
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Fry's has now fixed that. They have no stock so they can't sell anything so they won't have any returns. It was an interesting way of solving the problem and I must say they did think (way) "outside the box" about this problem.
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Which works up until you get a reputation for doing exactly that and your customers start to go elsewhere.
Which works up until you get a reputation for doing exactly that and register on Amazon again with another company name and keep going.
Fixed that for you.
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Companies have been doing this for fifty years or more.
When I was a kid we bought a telescope from Toys R Us. Took it home and put it together (the box had been opened.) There was a huge scratch across the main lens, which was obviously why it was returned before.
The business model is to keep putting it back out until some customer is too stupid or lazy or scared or procrastinates too long to return it.
Parents had ordered a fine new kitchen table. It arrived, they looked at it, a huge scratch on the top.
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Re:Second hand where? (Score:5, Informative)
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Amazon and other big online retailers (including Amazon, so surprised they are mentioned in the article, I thought they did this everywhere) sell returns in bulk to liquidation companies. Those companies then break them up into lots and auction them off.
So you're saying Amazon returns are the Mortgage Backed Securities of Internet retail :-P
Re:Second hand where? (Score:5, Interesting)
My ex-wife's father was a retired CEO. He moved to Florida upon retirement and had plenty to live on, but he was one of those people who sees business opportunities everywhere. He started a business buying returns and unsold product from QVC. He would bid on entire pallets of stuff (often the contents were unknown). Once he had the items in his warehouse he would go through them. Some of the items were junk, but most were were in good shape or brand new. Those items would be sold to people with operations to sell them individually at big discounts. On top of that, he often came across broken jewelry and other precious metals which he would have melted down and sold for their commodity value. Sometimes he'd get really lucky. One time he came across an entire pallet of Barbie dolls that, for whatever reason, wasn't sold. They were limited editions, mint, in boxes. He made a boatload on that.
He had to take a number of precautions to make sure that items were safe and that the people who were buying them to retail them were being honest about their origins. He also had to find outlets for all of his product (he didn't want to be bothered with sales direct to consumers). He was an upright and honest guy and he managed to do it all pretty well.
All that to say there are absolutely people who are in this space who know how to do it profitably. If online returns are going to landfills these companies are missing a chance to earn at least a portion of their cash back.
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He had to take a number of precautions to make sure that items were safe and that the people who were buying them to retail them were being honest about their origins
I'm glad he went to the trouble to do it right. Unless there are consumer- and business-to-business-protection regulations or at least "best practices" that everyone is following, there is a huge opportunity for shady cost-cutting in the buy-and-resell industry.
So how much did QVC actually make? (Score:2)
Perhaps 20% of the value? vs. -5% of the value sending it to landfil.
Apart from the bother of dealing with your father in law there will always be a chance of some come back, being sued. Who insures them? And they are cannibalizing their own sales.
So better for them just to dump it.
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Probably a few product catagories (Score:3)
Mattress likely drive the landfill problem as many cannot be resold due to local laws. You order mattress, use it for the 90 days then it gets thrown away.
Likely same thing for towels and the like. I bet clothes are donated, given the truck loads of goods I see given to the local shelters. There is an new Amazon warehouse near me and I imagine they will donate to the many local shelters for a tax break
Re:Probably a few product catagories (Score:4, Informative)
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Many homeless people know better than to walk around in nice clothes because it "shows" that they're "rich" and don't need any help.
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You would be sickened by the sheer quantity of wholesome, nutritious food sent to landfills by grocers in spite the existence of "good Samaritan" laws that shield them from liability were they to instead donate it to food shelves and shelters.
Those laws don't protect grocers as much as you think. They provide protection in both criminal and civil spheres in the absence of gross negligence or intentional misconduct. The problem is that nothing stops ambitious trial lawyers from claiming gross negligence anyway. If some homeless guy gets sick from that can of beef stew, the lawyers are just going to say that it was gross negligence on the grocer's part. A single multi-million dollar verdict far outstrips any money the grocer loses from not sellin
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But is this all just academic? Are there any actual lawsuits that have been filed? If I search for 'grocery store sued for donating food', all of the results are articles asking why grocery stores don't just donate more food.
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Mattresses (Score:1)
If they aren't physically damaged, mattresses CAN be sanitized and resold, at least in most or all of the USA. That's how some resale shops handle donated mattresses: If it's in good enough condition to sanitize and resell, they do, otherwise they either decline the donation or if they can find a recycler, sell it to one.
Many resale shops aren't able to do what is required so they don't accept donated mattresses at all, which probably means if you live in small or medium-sized town you may not be able to
Clothes - could be (Score:4, Interesting)
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Wasn't there a previous article on this? (Score:1)
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The author obviously has never worked for a large retailer like Target or Walmart, because it's exactly the same story there. A very large percentage of returned goods go straight to the landfill after filing for reimbursement with the wholesaler/manufacturer.
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I had a similar experience with Costco. I just wanted a price adjustment on an item that I wanted to keep. A Costco manager told me that they couldn't just adjust the price. I had to return the item, which would then be trashed, and then buy a new item. Costco didn't care because they could charge the supplier. I think this is part of the problem with huge retailers who have enough power to force 100% of the cost of returns onto their suppliers.
Re:But... but... cheaper! (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, that is totally only American.
Never been to Asia, S. America, parts of Europe, or Africa I take it ?
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My grandparents were around in the great depression, and my father was old enough to remember some of it. They save, scrimp, re-use, repair, and do their best to not waste stuff, even when they had a good income. That sort of attitude seems to have nearly vanished in today's society.
labor costs vs disposal fees (Score:2)
They Sell the Stuff to Used Merchandise Sellers. (Score:2)
While some stuff is sent to the landfill, a more common response is to sell the stuff to used merchandise sellers. They sell the stuff by the pallet. Go to a site like liquidation.com where this is auctioned off.
relative value of worth (Score:1)
How to trigger hipsters into not returning items (Score:2)
Landfills, really? (Score:5, Informative)
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with amazon, its often the case (personal experience) that returns go RIGHT BACK on the shelves for unsuspecting customers.
many times I've ordered quadcopter parts (like flight controller boards) and gotton horrible returns; non-functional, clearly shows burn marks due to fried parts, missing cables or mounting hardware. you complain, amazon credits you back and when you return it, it may go back on the shelves AGAIN.
amazon does not seem to care. what this means is that if you need something urgently, you
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My wife had just ordered an insulated/double-walled glass coffee cup from Amazon. When we received it, it had been shattered into a million little shards of glass. We took photographs of it in the shipping box but were unable to send the photograph when requesting the return. There is absolutely nothing that could be done with the return other than sending it to the landfill.
The return process made us take the physical pieces to a Kohl's store to have them return it rather than taking it to a UPS store, li
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This is probably due to people lying on the returns automated system... "It didn't fit..." instead of "I broke it".. so the 'system/skynet' routes it to be resold.
Also, Amazon "Warehouse" deals would indicate not everything gets crated up for bulk selling.
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What are the
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That's why I never buy open box or refurbished electronics, except for maybe something trivial like a toaster or a light bulb. There's just too many ways it can be broken but appear to be working just fine from the quick 15 second inspection that it probably got by whoever is selling it. It's just not worth it, especially since the discounts usually aren't that great either - by the time I find out why the original person returned it and that I'll have to return it too, I'm in the hole compared to if I ju
Re: Landfills, really? (Score:2)
Refurbished is usually fine if it actually got refurbished.
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Or just quit buying from Amazon.
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You're 100% right about this. Somewhere along the "disposal" chain, those items will be grabbed and resold and reused in some way. Hell, people pick through trash cans and dumpsters to get scrap soda cans. If there's an opportunity to get new or nearly-new brand name cloths and electronics, someone is taking advantage of it. From Amazon's point-of-view, I'm sure they just hire a company to haul away containers of used merchandise, but I guarantee those containers do not go directly to a landfill.
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And what do they do with the stuff in the pallets that they don't want?
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Based on the videos I have seen (and the specific re-sellers I watch), a lot of stuff that is unsellable but still good gets donated in some way. (or in some cases packaged up and sold as bulk lots where selling the stuff individually isn't viable)
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Badly worded (Score:3)
"The increase of the volume of returns has exploded by 95 per cent over the last five years".
It is honestly quite hard to parse what that is supposed to mean. My guess would be, "The volume of returns has nearly doubled in the past five years". But that sounds a lot less impressive.
Whatever your preference for percentages as against old-fashioned fractions, the phrase "the increase of" is not only redundant but severely confusing. The increase in what period?
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"The volume of returns has nearly doubled in the past five years"
That was how I parsed it as well; but even written that way it sounds pretty alarming to me. Just think about what it has to mean for margin.
One way or another the contribution margin for the product that isn't returned + salvage value of the returned product has to allow for both profit at the retail and manufacturer/wholesale level.
This means either we were dramatically over paying for stuff in the recent past. Or prices have significantly gone up. The thing is inflationary measures indicate prices have n
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New mattress to the landfill (Score:1)
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Probably not. For example, here is NYS law on used bedding https://www.dos.ny.gov/licensi... [ny.gov]
This law would require them to sanitize the mattress first, which requires disassembling the mattress and inspecting it at least.
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Yeah, I've seen that too - just about anything other than old CRT monitors will get taken.
It was always funny with garage sales - I'll have a box of free stuff at the end of the driveway full of stuff that really had no economic value even by garage sale standards, However, since it would otherwise get landfilled, I figured if someone thought it was useful they could have it. As the main reason I'd have a garage sale is to get rid of stuff (as opposed to trying to make money), if something wasn't selling
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- a bunch of crap no one would pay a quarter for - but once it was free, it was gone almost immediately.
It seems putting stuff curbside "for free" is equivalent to dumping, it eventually disappears but I don't know if someone grabbed it or a crew was hired to pick it up and take it to the landfill. Our condo complex is notorious for people dumping furniture where crews have to be hired to haul it away. But wait, in Santa Clara city once a year residents can put whatever stuff curbside and city will haul it away (exception hazardous chemicals). Friends set out broken microwave ovens, VHS recorders that don't
Cottage industry (Score:3)
There is a cottage industry (i.e.: people using their own garage or warehouse), to purchase, sort thru, and resell returned inventories. For example, this is for Amazon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Walmart does pallets (or sometimes truckloads):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Target:
https://www.youtube.com/result... [youtube.com]
But they warn against generic "liquidators":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
I have friends in Arizona that does similar things for books. They earn their living by browsing ex-library books, and garage sales.
Baseline: If you are in a low labor cost state, it makes sense to work on reintegrating otherwise useful things back to society.
Legal and reputation risks (Score:1)
Some products can be properly refurbished.
Some can't, including just about anything electronic that you can't cheaply put back in a "guaranteed factory-reset" state. That home router that you just returned that lets users flash the firmware with third-party firmware? For all the manufacturer knows, you flashed it with a trojan-horse "look-alike" firmware that is hard to detect and which can never be fully removed, which means it really shouldn't ever be sold without replacing the motherboard. At that poi
The Amazon Mindeset (Score:3)
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Amazon quite frankly has a lot of errors in their system. I've received the wrong item, or wrong color of an item many times, far more frequently than with other retailers. I would guess that much of the issue is Amazon's fault for stocking so many sketchy brands and having such a shoddy warehouse system.
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Bulk discounted boxes (Score:1)
Liability Collision in Secondhand Markets (Score:3)
But we are eco-friendly! (Score:2)
That's what companies love to chant nowadays, with fields of blooming flowers, kids playing in that field, and cute puppies.
Related - Insurance Fraud (Score:1)
It doesn't have to be a cost (Score:2)
There are a few companies (home depot, costco) who I know in the past auction off their returns on pallets. Nobody looks at them, the people buying them bid for the pallet. They get to recover their costs and the risk is offset to the purchasers of the pallets.
From an environmental standpoint (Score:2)
From an environmental standpoint this is clearly worse than re-using or recycling the unwanted items but, and let's not kid ourselves, burying them deep in the ground is the best alternative by far to other disposal methods. The problem then just becomes keeping them there.
And orders of magnitude better than burning them.