Facebook Refuses To Share Employee Race and Gender Data 250
theodp writes "Back in 2007, Representative Maxine Waters asked Google's HR Chief, "How many [of Google's employees] are African-American?" After 7+ years of stonewalling, Google has pledged to finally divulge diversity data on its workforce for the first time. While the U.S. government requires all major employers to file diversity statistics with the EEOC, Google convinced the Dept. of Labor that the race and gender of its work force is a trade secret that should not have to be released to the public. Google now concedes that it has been 'reluctant to divulge that data' and 'quite frankly, we are wrong about that.' Interestingly, Facebook apparently has no such compunctions about refusing to disclose data on the racial and gender makeup of its employees, even as CEO Mark Zuckerberg lobbies Congress for changes to the makeup of the U.S. workforce. Pressed on the matter by the Rev. Jesse Jackson at Facebook's annual shareholder meeting, the WSJ reports that COO and gender equality advocate Sheryl Sandberg rebuffed Jackson's request, saying, 'It's really important to share [the Facebook diversity numbers] internally, and eventually externally.'"
Facebook just care about privacy. (Score:5, Funny)
That's all. Sharing demographic and other personal data is something they've been staunchly against since their founding. The government, being entirely unbiased toward people with enough money to buy it off, has appreciated Zuckerberg's principled stance.
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[Facebook] is a service that you voluntarily sign up for and every time you share something you actively choose to share that info, who to share it with.
Not everyone [digitaltrends.com] signs up for it.
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One drop rule? (Score:3, Insightful)
Race is an illusion. It's none of my employer's business where my ancestors may have hailed from.
yep, stupid. Teaching my kid her race is "wtf?" (Score:3, Insightful)
On my daughter's birth certificate, I was quite tempted to enter it as "who cares, what year is it, 1814?"
When Milan gets older and asks whether she's white, black, or Mexican, I may tell her "you are Milan, that's all. You're not a group, you are you."
If she presses me, asking where her great-great-grandparents lived, they honest answer is "A lot of places, I don't know them all. Probably some in Jamaica, some either Ireland, Scotland, or both, some in Texas somewhere , but maybe that part of Texas was Me
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And what if Milan is turned down for jobs based on her appearance or gender?
Does her race matter then?
Going forward, whites are just as likely to suffer racial discrimination.
There are many construction companies where you can't get a job unless you are hispanic. It's not about the pay. It's not about your skills. It's not whether you can speak spanish.
It's flat out because a "white" won't "fit in" with a hispanic crew.
There is a reason we made that kind of behavior illegal to begin with.
Re: yep, stupid. Teaching my kid her race is "wtf? (Score:3, Funny)
Wrong. Only whites can be racist. Jesse jacskson al Sharpton said so
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Of course if the country (I use country generically I'm not in the US but have similar demographics issues) enforced immigration policy And mandated minimum English skills as a requisite to immigrating perhaps we wouldn't be in the situation where industries are dominated by migrant labor that can't communicate with the majority of the population. Having a preferred language outside the norm is one thing, being incapable of communicating unless government services are supplied in every language under the su
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As I said, it has nothing to do with the ability to speak the language. You can be fluent. It doesn't matter.
Anti-discrimination laws are not equally enforced against minorities and they discriminate like hell. They don't even think of it as discrimination or that they are doing anything wrong because they are not called on it so they don't even have to consider it.
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I can't explain why you feel how you feel. It's enough that you thought about it.
And I don't think your current response is hypocritical.
If she is discriminated against and gets upset and you act differently- then your response will be hypocritical.
Some people will turn the other cheek to people who are killing them. I can respect that.
You may have ideals that make you feel race or sex discrimination are permissible or should be tolerated for some reason.
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> When Milan gets older and asks whether she's white, black, or Mexican, I may tell
> her "you are Milan, that's all. You're not a group, you are you."
"Dad, do you want me to get this passport or not?".
"Put white."
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I actually fought for both of my daughters to be listed as "human" - but was told that it wasn't allowed because it was facetious.
I was never more sincere about something in my life.
In the end, I chose "decline to state", because multi-racial was limited to only 3 choices maximum - as if there was some upper limit on how many different countries your ancestors could come from.
Not bad for a first guess. Want to guess again? (Score:2)
> This thread is going to be mostly about white male suburbanites complaining that race is irrelevant.
Not bad for your first guess. Want to try again, or would you likea hint?
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Actually, the ones with the most to complain about in this whole mess are recent asian immigrants who didn't have a damn thing to do with slavery, but are now being quota-ed out of universities because they work hard, and end up over-represented in high test scores.
It's funny how the collateral damage of the victimhood mentality that demonizes whites ends up affecting a racial group that was legally discriminated against all the way up till 1952 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_
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Re:One drop rule? (Score:5, Insightful)
"Race is primarily a social construct, rather than a genetic one."
And yet somehow it is passed on from parents to children -- even those not socialized by those parents.
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Not true - a white woman can have a black child (Obama), but a black woman can't have a white child (Angela Howard).
Why do you think that is?
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We reject this false choice, er, loaded question.
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So, get rid of the label so that some bigot doesn't look at my paperwork and decide "oops, wrong race!"
Look, you've got two versions of racial identification - self identification, and other identification. The two don't match, and aren't even *consistent within themselves*!
Pretending that somehow we'll stop bigotry by labeling, categorizing, and dividing people into imaginary, socially constructed, arbitrary, contradictory and malleable buckets is silly.
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Perhaps, but you don't get that defense when you start talking about "Our company ROCKS on [racial] diversity! ... but how much it rocks in that regard is a 'trade secret', yeah, that's it."
Re:One drop rule? (Score:5, Insightful)
What makes you think because I didn't hire you, and you happen to be black, that I'm somehow a racist, or discriminating? Maybe I'm looking for specialized EE's with a specific field of experience to finish out a project, and your degree and experience just don't fit the position I'm looking for? Maybe you're unqualified. Maybe the graduates moving into my industry are predominantly from a single race, or predominantly not of a single race. How does that make me a racist? If you think your skin color entitles you to a job at my company, you're mistaken. Your attitude and experience do.
How many different races a company hires to fill a quota is no sign of a lack of discrimination. Hiring qualified workers regardless of race is a sign of a discrimination-free workplace. In fact, filling a quota often causes more problems than it solves on the discrimination front.
If my company is still 80% Caucasian, or 80% Asian, or 80% African is irrelevant to how discriminatory or not a company is. Hiring based on race is. Those are two different things. What's the diversity look like over at BET, or at your local Asian market? Do they have to meet diversity standards too? The only people that apply for some jobs are the only ones that want that job. I can't help it if a disproportionate number of those applicants are the same color.
In a highly technical business industry I shouldn't have to seek out unqualified people in order to check a box and feel good about doing NOTHING AT ALL to solve discrimination. I should hire the most qualified applicants, and spend my efforts at diversity elsewhere, like raising STEM awareness in public schools, or offering scholarships an internships to qualified candidates. Make your workplace appealing to all comers, and you'll see diversity naturally happen. But as long as our only company appeal is "we care so much about race, we played human pokemon" we're going to have this race problem hanging around. We shouldn't have diversity guidelines at all, because as a society, we've moved past the point of thinking race actually matters, right? So why don't we act like it?
The reason racism is still a pervasive problem is that we keep bringing it up and talking about it like it's a problem. Ignore or punish the haters, and eventually they'll die of old age or aneurysms, and we can move on with life as a whole.
(Yes, I'm optimistic. No, I don't think this will actually work. Yes, tribalism still occurs across all races and genders and sports affiliations. No, it's still not acceptable for a civilized society.)
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Maybe I'm looking for specialized EE's with a specific field of experience to finish out a project, and your degree and experience just don't fit the position I'm looking for?
You're presuming that said education and work experience was gained on a purely meritocratic basis. The United States is demonstrably not that meritocratic. You're assuming the person who shares their last name with both a building at their alma mater and the CEO of their last employer is the more qualified candidate.
Maybe the graduates moving into my industry are predominantly from a single race
For purely coincidental reasons?
How does that make me a racist?
Maybe you are and maybe you aren't, on an individual basis. But as a culture we most certainly are, and if you ever want our society to be as meritocratic as
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Should hospitals and schools have to explain how the vast majority of their nurses and teachers are women?
Statistically significant differences between any given group, and the general population, shouldn't require some special explanation - that's guilty until proven innocent.
Frankly, if you have a workforce of 10,000 white people, no matter how they self-identify, I'll almost guarantee you that a significant portion of them have black ancestry. Our most recent common ancestor is quite possibly only a few
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Why is it a concern? Can't it be possible that men and women make different choices naturally without some sort of nefarious, systematic discrimination against either one?
Should we also start explaining why some people are tall and some people are short? Why some people like roses and others like daffodils? Why some car colors are overrepresented?
Just because a subgroup of the population doesn't have the same proportions of some trait as the general population, doesn't mean that something evil has happen
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10,000 is not a statistically significant fraction of the population.
When calculating statistical significance, the fraction of the population is irrelevant.
So you could very well have hired 10,000 people and all of them turned out to be black by luck of the draw.
The chance of that happening is infinitesimally close to zero. Far closer to zero than the floating point unit in your computer can handle. If the population is 10% black, the probability would be 1e-10000, while the number of subatomic particles in the observable universe is less than 1e80.
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Math mistakes aside there are cultural/historical and other factors that do lead professions to be skewed one way or another. If you are living in a city where immigration is the main source of population growth and immigrates are primarily coming from asia, as is the case where I'm living, guess what? A disproportionate number of applications will tend to be brown/yellow. Will the employee fit with our "corporate culture" will be answered differently if this is the first orthodox Jew applying or you alread
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The chance of that happening is infinitesimally close to zero.
A statement which would be a lie if stated by a statistician. Since you can't possibly know from the mere composition of the population; the chance of hiring a black person or a white person each time that you hired someone.
It is not as if you were given an opportunity to pick 10000 random people from the population and force them to quit any existing job they might have and come work for you. Your selection of hires is limited to a frac
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10,000 is not a statistically significant fraction of the population. So you could very well have hired 10,000 people and all of them turned out to be black by luck of the draw.
Excellent point. Maybe all those racist people are not actually racist. They might be equally likely to use racial slurs against whites OR blacks, but all the racial slurs they use just happen to be black ones by luck of the draw. Could be!
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... Unless you have no need for society to protect your rights, of course.
Yeah, and no need to pay off the mob, either... unless you need them to protect you, of course.
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If a company like google is not hiring certain races of people, I suspect it is not because of discrimination at google. I am pretty sure the problem can be traced all the way back to the inequality in public schools. When you have affluent school districts with tons of money and high university acceptance and attendance and poor schools where all the minorities go with high drop out rates and low university acceptance and attendance, you can't just expect google to hire people of different races equally
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That might be more of their claim of "trade secret". They don't want the native population to realize how disproportionate their number of indians are vs locals compared with the local population. Tax breaks to create jobs ... which get filled via H1B. Meanwhile they could quite well still be turning down latino and black applicants in droves.
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black, white, latino - all are the 'new minorities' in tech.
and you know who the new majority is. and its not the people who were born and raised here, either.
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No, I am saying that if your only goal is profit (i.e. you are discriminating based on profitability and not discriminating based on race), and you assessed each applicant for profitability (i.e. skills=X salary=Y without even knowing their race), you may end up hiring certain races more than others because those races are more profitable to hire.
The NBA isn't racist for hiring so many black people. It's that a very high percentage of good basketball players for various reasons happen to be black. The NBA
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Amalgamated Profits Inc. only underpays Group A by (0.9*X)%, so as a member of Group A boy am I glad to have a job here.
Correct, and thus a higher proportion of Group A members would work at AP Inc, and AP Inc would be happy to hire them. If they didn't hire members of Group A based on discriminatory hiring policy, that would be cutting into their bottom line.
Now you might be thinking that paying Group A less is itself a form of a discrimination, and it could be, but it's not provable given the limited information we have in this hypothetical. Group A may be willing to work for less for reasons that have nothing to do with t
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Of course there's no inequality in private schools. Right.
Private schools are not supposed to be equal. Public schools are. I don;t know why you inferred anything regarding private schools form what I said.
Non sequitur. American slaver owners were racist but were happy to have more Africans imported into the country to enslave.
So in this way no matter what kind of people you hire, you can be accused of racism. You are racist for not hiring people, and you are racist for hiring them too.
Not at all. In a racist and sexist environment, where folks who are not white males are generally underpaid compared to us white guys, a company maximizes profits by continuing that underpayment, perhaps just doing it slightly less than their competition.
And the racist practice of paying white people additional money for no good reason is the thing that would cut into their bottom line. Why would you hire white people and pay them more when you can
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You have to provide your employer with your SSN, and probably other government ID number(s) like drivers license or professional certification number. The government has the data on your race, gender, age etc. Therefore your employer doesn't need to know those details, it can just provide the government with the list of employees, and the government can calculate the percentages.
Re:One drop rule? (Score:5, Interesting)
there is HUGE discrimination in tech, right now.
I know a lot of american workers - really skilled and experienced - that have been out of work for a long time. and yet, we have asians and indians staffing the bay area tech companies and it stinks to high heaven. its clearly discriminatory (not necessarily mgmt, but the team members who are indian tend to vote for their fellow desi's and reject american workers. tell me this isn't true and tell it to me with a straight face.)
and so, if we had numbers on this, we could SHOW, with data, that this widely-known issue is true. once its known, it could be dealt with and repaired.
all we want is fairness. what we have now is a huge imbalance and pretty extreme racism where locals can't even get a chance to compete for local jobs. its sickening.
companies should be fined for this shit. its ruining this country and destroying what's left of the tech middle class.
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Monitoring "race" is like monitoring "favorite NFL team" - it's none of my employer's or my government's business. Neither is the particular amount of skin pigment I might have, or how curly my hair is.
The way to counter systematic discrimination is to refuse to buy into the tired trope that "race" is anything but an arbitrary and worthless division of people.
Our race is "human", period.
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I wonder... (Score:2)
Re:I wonder... (Score:5, Informative)
how many minorities Facebook hired between when the request was made and when they finally complied. Would be interesting to see before and after data.
I don't work for Facebook, but I have been on their MPK campus as a contractor many times. I can tell you from first hand experience that Facebook is a very culturally diverse environment where everyone, regardless of race, sexual orientation or gender, is welcomed. It looks like a mini San Francisco.
Re:I wonder... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Looking at your post history, you seem to be some sort of corporate apologist, for everyone from Facebook to Comcast. You also seem to be something of an expert on US immigration law. From this, we can infer that when you say "culturally diverse," what you really mean is "mostly Indians." Does the shilling pay well?
I'm not an apologist, I'm merely explaining how stuff works. If you don't like Facebook, don't create an account. If you don't like Comcast, don't get it. Everywhere in the US you have alternative options for internet access.
When I say "culturally diverse", I don't mean mostly Indians. Even if it were, the way you formulate your comment is as if people from India are some sort of plague. You may not agree with the US immigration policy, but you should take that up with your congressman, not with the indiv
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its somehow ok that we help other nationals; but what about our OWN??
look, they have a shithole of a country, granted. but leaving the country and coming here is not going to fix india. what it does is help ruin the workforce here for those who are invested HERE and want to stay HERE.
its time to cut off immigration. we have more people than jobs and we owe a living to our own people, first.
this is how EVERY OTHE
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Ugg the diversity brigade strikes again (Score:5, Insightful)
As much as I hate Facebook (and merely strongly dislike Google) why is this an issue? The implicit assumption behind this seems to be that diversity can only happen if you get people who look different in the same room. and that's nonsense.
These are both companies that are chomping at the bit to hire h1b's who are expressly non-white and hail from overseas countries. (The fact that they get to work as indentured servants with lower than average wages is another discussion). It's not as if it's a good-ole boy's club over at the googleplex.
If google and facebook could find qualified black (or American employees in general) employees, wouldn't they do that rather than importing people from India/Pakistan/$wherever? Implying that these companies are racist because they aren't hiring many blacks says less about facebook or google -- and more about our country. (or more accurately about Maxine Waters and Jesse Jackson playing the race card constantly to stay relevant.. )
Re:Ugg the diversity brigade strikes again (Score:5, Insightful)
Why? Facebook collects and compiles detailed information about its members (starting with requiring users use their real name) but won't reveal even the most trivial information about itself... Total hypocrisy and double standards. Somehow FB's privacy is important but that of ordinary people is not.
Also, these companies are lobbying to increase the h1b quota so knowing the demographics of their workforce is relevant.
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If google and facebook could find qualified black (or American employees in general) employees, wouldn't they do that rather than importing people from India/Pakistan/$wherever?
That depends. Are those Amercian employees willing to work for the same salary offer as those India/Pakitan/$whatever and be content? They are shooting for a cheap labor market.
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As much as I hate Facebook (and merely strongly dislike Google) why is this an issue?
In my experience, when a corporation makes up some outlandish BS like "trade secrets" to hide information, it's because there's something worth covering up.
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Zuckerberg has made no effort to hide his disdain for older workers as well as anyone else. A disclo
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Source for that statement? What if it turns out it is? Is that "none of the government's business"? Is it up to brave consumers to decide if we care or not, and apply market pressure on google by not buying their products?
No. That's part of the problem. There are plenty
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Don't get me wrong, I absolutely hate the entire CONCEPT of the H1B program. What got me was the implication by Waters/Jackson (and calling him a Reverend is laughable) that the ONLY reason they'd not hire more blacks is due to racist hiring practices.
While there are a few reasons for not hiring Americans in general, and black Americans in particular -- is racism among them, considering they scour South Asia for candidates?
Basically I think that companies like FB and Google are acting in the most sociall
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one of your quotes is worth repeating:
Rather than actually investing in their country (IE, find smart HS / College kids and train them) they'll go to any lengths to just import the indentured servants to do the work.
this is a case where corporations are not acting out of long-term stability for the local economy and the government (yes, the big bad government) should step in and right this wrong. the business world is not going to self-govern in this regard and so someone more neutral has to do it. this I
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Sure. Someone could be racist towards a very specific group of people, vs racist in general.
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if a company is systematically passing over people because they are (black, female, the wrong kind of christian, etc) - it's hard to do anything about it if they never release those stats.
Hmm I don't think so, not today anyway. Perhaps that was true a long time ago. The government already knows who works for (gets paid by) Facebook. It gets reported in W2s, 1099s, etc. They also ask your race/gender/other demographic markers on various government forms. Your driver's license and passport list some of them. So it would be pretty trivial for the government to get a good idea of it all without asking companies to keep or report their own stats.
It wouldn't necessarily give you finer grained deta
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- A big company hiring specialists in a field could constitute a significant portion of the market in a given city.
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If google and facebook could find qualified black (or American employees in general) employees, wouldn't they do that rather than importing people from India/Pakistan/$wherever?
I'm sorry, but you point out the answer to this dilemma which you say is a different discussion. Google, Apple, Ford, GM, Amazon, etc... can all find qualified people in America. The problem is that they don't want to pay for qualified people, which is why they piss and moan about wanting more H1Bs. Which you point out results in people working for reduced wages.
Yes, I agree that race is a foolish thing to look at all things considered. Looking at wages when upper management is making billions is a very
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"If google and facebook could find qualified black (or American employees in general) employees, wouldn't they do that rather than importing people"
a) Black Americans are not just black, they are American so they do not have the specter of their visa being pulled and are likely more familiar with American law.
b) You have assumed rational non-racist business decision and used that to prove their their business decision is rational and not racist. This is a great example of the original meaning of "begging th
Diversity at all costs! (Score:5, Insightful)
Because we all know that diversity is the MOST important thing. Better have a black doctor instead of one who performs the best. Make sure that coder is a woman because even if she isn't as talented as the white male, its BETTER!!!! Because basing things off of race is RACIST..err I mean NOT BASING things off race is RACISTS err....wait what was I saying?
Re:Stupid is as stupid does (Score:5, Insightful)
People are going to call me a racist for this and I don't care. If someone can't piece this together for themselves and thinks my comments have anything to do with race (rather than the ludicrous, and patently racist, expectation that members of one race be judged on a different scale than members of another race), I can't be bothered to care what they think.
Affirmative action is bullshit!
Yes, you read that right. Affirmative action is bullshit. It only superficially helps black people who think they can't succeed without it; in reality, it only serves to help guilty racist old white guys sleep better at night. It's holding the black community back more than anything else, at this point, specifically for the reason stated at the top of this post.
A black guy and a white guy enter your office, both have the same degree form the same school. You know the white guy got into that school on his own merits, but, because of affirmative action, you don't know whether the black guy deserved to get in, or if he was accepted to fill a quota. That's not to say the black guy couldn't have possibly gotten into that school on his own merits, just that you don't, and can't, know that he did, because you have no way of knowing whether that school needed to fill a seat with a black guy in order to comply with the law. Likewise, when you hire the black guy, your customers have no way of knowing if you hired him because of his qualifications, or to comply with the law. Were you hiring the most qualified candidate, or just filling a quota? Your customers have no way of knowing.
All affirmative action hiring laws do is force people to hire people they don't want to and, therefore, shouldn't hire, regardless of reason.
Put yourself in the shoes of a black man for a moment (black guys, this should be easy for you)... Without affirmative action, would you have a harder time finding a job, as a result of rampant racism? I can't answer definitively, but I'll admit the answer is likely a very loud "yes". But think about it; do you want to work for a racist company? Do you want to work for a company that only hired you because they had to? There are enough companies out there run by people who are not racist that you should be able to find a job without having to settle for working at one that is. By forcing companies to hire you based on race, affirmative action prevents that; you don't know whether the company you're working for is run by racist assholes who hired you to fill a "black seat", or if they truly did hire you based on your qualifications; regardless of your qualifications. As a result of affirmative action, you could be willingly lining the pockets of a group of racist white guys and not even know it.
There are plenty of qualified and capable minority workers in the workforce. The trouble is, for anything that requires a higher level of trust than a cashier or cart retriever, affirmative action makes it impossible to tell, as a customer, whether the minority worker you're dealing with is actually qualified for the position until it's too late (if they're not). That's not to say every white guy who gets hired is qualified. Cronyism is definitely rampant, as well; but the fact is it's easier to fire a white guy who doesn't perform than it is to fire a minority worker for any reason, again due to affirmative action laws.
I don't know what the solution to this problem is, but I do know that it is not affirmative action. Maybe affirmative action is the best we can do and, if that's the case, that's a really sad situation for everyone involved. I know I don't want to be treated by a less-than-qualified doctor, and so I'm forced to avoid anyone who may have been hired to fill a seat; and there's nothing racist about that.
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White Males make up 77% of the USA. Is any company with less than this percentage racist? Affirmative Action: Utterly bogus.
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Just sayin'.
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77% of the USA is white male? That seems a bit unlikely.
Re:Stupid is as stupid does (Score:4, Insightful)
You're making a basic fallacy, and I am amazed that though you have given the matter enough thought to come up with your above rant, you have not discovered it.
Affirmative action only matters at admissions, not further. Whether a minority student is accepted to a medical school or law school or whatever to fill a quota, they will come out the other end of that program unless they pass the highly rigorous standards. A medical student cannot be certified in the US without passing all 3 steps of the USMLE, and a residency. So you can trust your doctor or your lawyer, whatever their race. They earned their spot, and quotas didn't matter a damn when they had to sit their exams.
Having those quotas in place is great, because it undoes generations' worth of racism that today manifests itself in socio-economic status. Affirmative action is actively trying to undo all the harm that racism and segregation have done in the past. If you are born African-American or Hispanic, you are likely to be born poorer. The police will treat you differently. Doors will be closed to you that are not to Caucasians. We need programs like Affirmative Action in place to undo all the harm that has been caused and continues to be caused.
And out on the job market? You think race doesn't matter, and that it's all academic. Well there are countless studies that have shown that the same resume will get treated differently if submitted under a different name - a "white-sounding" name will get a lot more calls back than a "black-sounding". Extremely so - sometimes the black names (again, same resumes) will get no calls back for 15 calls back for white names.
Racism is unfortunately well alive. Today it is mostly subconscious but it is still really harmful. From the fact that you gave this matter enough thought to come up with your rant above, and yet not discover the basic logical fallacy in it, though you seem otherwise intelligent, makes me think you have quite a bit of subconscious racism left too. It's okay if you do, many people do, especially if they are of the privileged class and never have to question their assumptions, or have cause to notice how all the doors that were open for them are not open for the unprivileged in their society. But the first step to fixing it is realizing it.
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because it undoes generations' worth of racism that today manifests itself in socio-economic status.
One could also argue that it breeds even more racism. Think about it. If you were the 5th best to pass the entrance exam, and they are taking 5 people total thats great right? well unless you are a white male, then instead of taking the top 5, they take the top 2, 12th 27th and 35th, taking the first woman, latino and black person, eventhough you scored higher than them, you dont get the job or promotion due to the new systematic racism (AKA affirmative action) That might make you feel a little racist towa
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The grandparent poster is on the mark. Would you really trust a black doctor who was a quota admit to med school?
Better you than me.
I don't know... did he or she take all the same class work as the other students? Did he or she pass the courses with sufficient grades to graduate? Did he or she successfully complete their residency? Did he or she pass the medical boards?
If yes, then I would. If they are competent and can demonstrate mastery of their craft, why would you not trust them?
almighty (Score:2)
I have the racial data right here. (Score:5, Insightful)
Not that hard.
But they share so much already (Score:2)
Facebook, give and give and give data away and people want them to share more. Poor widdle facebwook!
Yes, I am being sarcastic.
Jesse Jackson? (Score:5, Informative)
You had me until Jesse Jackson got involved. That guy is a crook and an extortionist. Usually he's only interested in how diverse your company is until you donate to his rainbow push coalition. Suddenly it doesn't matter if you're diverse after that.
Jesse Jackson? (Score:2)
Is this guy still relevant? I guess he hasn't heard, we have a black president. This guy needs to just retire because all he does is try to get people to kiss his ass.
It was inevitable (Score:3)
When a new company makes a splash, they can expect a visit from the Jesse Jacksons of the world, running their usual shakedown.
Google.Facebook.No highly staffed CS call centers. (Score:4, Informative)
Employer Does Not Know (Score:2)
What race do you want to be today? (Score:2)
Given that gender identity is now apparently whatever the individual says it is when it comes to bath- and locker-room assignments, should we all be asked to pick the race we feel most simpatico with and be that for reporting purposes?
The last few mortgages I refinanced, I took note that the paperwork said that if I didn't disclose my race the broker would do it for me and put that on the form in my stead. So now any time I have to put down my race, I pick one at random. Since I have no idea what's back the
Ridiculous (Score:2)
Who gives a damn how your workforce is made up, white, yellow, red, pink, blue - male / female / whatever. I don't care if it's a transgender wombat, as long as it's the right person / creature to do the job.
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the flaw is that they don't hire based on ability anymore.
if the group is 90% indian, guess who will get the next job in that group?
this is the new reality and unless there is a move to fix it, it won't fix itself!
"he's not a cultural fit" is the PC term but we all know what it really means.
I don't care if Zuckerface shares his data... (Score:2)
... I care he shares my data.
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Actually he does have a right. He got into the shareholder's meeting by being a shareholder. It's his company too. Let him express his views to the board.
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You mean let him express his views that only benefit his rainbow push coalition and his own endeavors? He's an extortionist, [judicialwatch.org] plain and simple with a long history of condemning businesses over racial issues and once they pay him off, he shuts up and supports them. Funny how that works. There's an excellent book on the subject. [amazon.com]
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If Facebook chooses to hire an all "white" staff, it is none of your damn business. Don't like it? Don't use Facebook.
That's not a choice he has, because he doesn't know if Facebook is hiring an (essentially) all-white staff, because that's not disclosed.
I'm undecided on whether companies should have to disclose this, leaning toward no, they shouldn't, because in theory employees shouldn't have to disclose this information to Facebook itself (even if in many cases it's visibly obvious), so it shouldn't necessarily be possible for Facebook to furnish this information.
But you kind of made a good argument for "these other nut
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While you're probably correct in your interpretation of what "Don't like it? Don't use Facebook." refers to, there is the possibility that OP was referring to the "it is none of your damn business" part. In which case, his argument makes sense and does not go in favor of "these other nut bags" as you concluded.
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And affirmative action should be ignored anywhere the client or customer must instill blind faith in the abilities of your team; not because minorities aren't capable, but because if you're going to hire a member of a minority group, it should be because they're qualified, not because you have a seat to fill and the law says yo
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Re:Maxine Waters (Score:5, Interesting)
Maxine Waters and Jessie Jackson are two of the biggest frauds in the US today. They're like the black versions of George Bush and Donald Rumsfield. Lying scum that make money by hurting others. George Bush doesn't care about black people and neither does Jessie Jackson. They care about lining their own pockets and protecting their friends.
GWB may be many things. But a racist, I have a hard time believing. And to say that GWB cares for black people in the same way Jesse Jackson and Maxine Waters do is frankly insulting to GWB.
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The number of H1-B employees is a matter of public record:
http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa... [myvisajobs.com]
Facebook has 6818 employees. As you can see, there is no way for things to be mostly H1B, although H1B hiring has picked up recently (probably just because Facebook has grown).
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From the 2010 US Census: [census.gov]
The Black or African-American
alone population was 38.9 million
and represented 13 percent of the
total population.
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that reminds me of a south african (white) who came to the US and wrote his race down as african-american. well, he was born in africa and he relocated to america...
but what a big stir it caused when he listed himself that way.
(this was a few decades ago, fwiw)
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Full disclosure: I'm asking because you appear to be qualified to give your honest viewpoint on my comment. Your qualifications? Ironically, being a minority.
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H1B jobs are all publicly disclosed. You can search for them and see what areas of expertise "can't" be fulfilled by domestic workers.
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the ruling class don't go to jail.
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I guess you're being sarcastic, but "separate but equal" is absolutely fine. The Supreme Court was incorrect when they ruled that separate but equal was inherently unequal, whether in education or any other government service. For instance, last I checked, government buildings still have separate but equal bathrooms for men and women.
More seriously, gender-segregated education is being experimented with in public schools (e.g. http://www.washingtonpost.com/... [washingtonpost.com]). I don't see a reason why race-segregated educ