When I drive, I place my hands at ...
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Alternative Answer... (Score:5, Funny)
...with my left knee at about 7 o'clock
Alternative Answer 2... (Score:5, Funny)
In my pockets. I'm testing Google's driverless cars!
(Not really, but someone had to say it)
Alternative Answer 3... (Score:2, Funny)
Hands? There are far better uses for hands.
Some of us just use their prehensile tails: the tail on the wheel and cruise control on. This leaves both hands and both feet free for some serious flea-hunting on the GF.
Re:Alternative Answer... (Score:2)
Re:Alternative Answer... (Score:3, Funny)
That was a while ago, when we were kids.
OBTW, my dad had previously been, and is now again, a driver's ed in-car instructor.
Re:Alternative Answer... (Score:2)
I used to drive like you, but then I took an arrow in the knee.
Re:Alternative Answer... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Alternative Answer... (Score:2)
Who uses a clutch for normal shifting? That's what syncros and proper timing are for.
Re:Alternative Answer... (Score:3)
Slushbox less efficient than you think (Score:3)
Automatic transmissions have come a long way in terms of torque-converter lockup, extra gears, more aggressive shift schedules, and so on. But I am thinking that a manual has an edge, especially in the raw uncorrected EPA highway rating, that is at least 5% and at maybe as much as 10 percent (4 MPG in a 40 Highway MPG high-MPG subcompact) because manuals have less mechanical friction in them compared to automatics, even when the automatic is in torque converter lockout.
The power demand at highway cruise conditions is low owing to the streamlining and other optimizations of modern cars, so even a modest boost in transmission friction can result in a noticable hit in the highway MPGs. Otherwise, the small amount of added mechanical friction of an on-demand all-wheel drive system would not have the noticable reduction in highway mileage that it has.
Why manuals have lower mechanical friction than automatics is something I leave to experts -- does it have to do with planetary gears in automatics compared with the gear sets in manuals? Does it have to do with fluid being pumped around even when the torque converter is in lockout? Some mechanical engineers would need to fill us computer geeks in on this topic.
Re:Alternative Answer... (Score:4, Insightful)
They're actually a lot worse. Not that they don't allow you to frequently exceed manual MPG ratings, they certainly do that.
But transmissions in general have gotten much more complex and much more succeptable to wear and breakage. When the do break, and they will, there aren't many people that can properly recondition them and it's quite expensive besides.
Companies like Dodge which had an absolutely bulletproof 3-speed automatic dating back to the early 1960's now have a 6-speed automatic that is really quite fragile and no manual option...say hello to our good friend planned obsolescence.
Re:Alternative Answer... (Score:4, Insightful)
Since I ride a Motorcycle, I deem this NOT Funny as people like you make it more dangerous for riders like me. If you can't drive properly, take a taxi.
Oh yeah. and PUT THAT MOBILE DOWN!
Re:Alternative Answer... (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the answer is obvious, but since you missed it I'll go ahead and point it out. It's because motorcyclists are much more vulnerable than your average dolt in a car who doesn't realize he or she is not driving a car as much as steering a weapon.
Re:Alternative Answer... (Score:3)
Tell that to the guy splattered on the grill.
Re:Alternative Answer... (Score:3)
I did... but he didn't answer.
None of the above... (Score:4, Informative)
Left hand at 7 or 11.. right on the shifter :P
Re:None of the above... (Score:5, Insightful)
I drove manual for years and I hardly see why your hand needs to be on the shifter at ALL times except maybe during rush hour.
Re:None of the above... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:None of the above... (Score:2)
Re:None of the above... (Score:3)
Re:None of the above... (Score:3)
If you keep your hand on the shifter, you're doing it wrong.
Re:None of the above... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:None of the above... (Score:3)
Or you're driving a diesel.
Re:None of the above... (Score:3)
Keeping one's hand on the shifter when not shifting puts unnecessary stress on the fork which leads to premature mechanical failure.
Re:None of the above... (Score:2)
Keeping your hand on the gear stick is a good way to fuck your gearbox!
Re:None of the above... (Score:2, Flamebait)
Hand job? :D
Seriously seen cars that have been drive that way last for over 300 000km without gearbox replacements (at this point the engine is usually dying). Maybe you Americans just don't know how to engineer a decent gearbox? :)
Re:None of the above... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's true that keeping your hand on the shifter is a bad idea, but for none of the reasons that most people think: in order of seriousness
#1 when you hit a pothole you're liable to push/pull on the stick which *does* cause damage
#2 If you're a ham beast or really grip the sucker you'll be putting a constant strain on the (insert any one of a dozen terms for any of the components linking the stick and the collars), over time this can wear them out. Technically even a light touch can add strain, but no more than the natural bumps of the road.
#3 If you're actually holding the stick shift at all times, and an idiot, you're liable to pull on it as your turning, this is as bad as #1 but less serious since you totally deserve it for using the shifter as a brace.
So what you've seen is cars that have had someone lightly resting on the shifter which causes so little wear as to be ignored completely; The reason owner's manuals and the like tell you it's a bad idea is the same reason that (here in North America anyways) plastic bags say not to let your kids play with them.
Re:None of the above... (Score:2)
No.
Re:None of the above... (Score:2)
And I remember the obese mother of a friend who drove and ancient classic US megacar with large hollow steering wheel, with both hands at 12 and her elbows _inside_ the wheel. She was doing wider curves than an 18 wheeler. Scary as shit.
Re:None of the above... (Score:2)
Re:None of the above... (Score:2)
Left hand about 10:00, right hand on the stick. (Score:2)
In town I have my hand on the stick more than I really need it to be, on the interstate it's usually just left hand 10:00 right arm on the passenger seat. I have an old shoulder injury, it just feels best to keep my right arm up.
Re:Left hand about 10:00, right hand on the stick. (Score:5, Funny)
I have my hand on the stick more than I really need it to be
Don't worry, a lot of slashdotters have the same problem
Knees - 4:30 and 7:30 (Score:2, Funny)
"I've got both hands free, driving with my knee"
Hands aren't free though...one is holding a beer, the other on the texting.
Option explanations (Score:5, Informative)
2:00 and 10:00 - Older way driver's ed teachers would teach steering, leading to such things as Driver's Ed'ed! [youtube.com] (skip to 0:37 if you don't want to see the whole thing).
3:00 and 9:00 - Holding your arms at the side if the wheel so you can stick your elbow into the face of your passenger.
4:00 and 8:00 - The lazy option, this allows you to keep your hands in your lap.
9:45 and 2:17 - George Carlin: "Now, a few basic points about driving. One of the first things they teach you in Driver's Ed is where to put your hands on the steering wheel. They tell you put 'em at ten o'clock and two o'clock. Never mind that. I put mine at 9:45 and 2:17. Gives me an extra half hour to get where I'm goin'."
None of your business where I put my hands! - Umm, what are you doing behind the wheel there?
Missing completely is of course something about CowboyNeal.
Re:Option explanations (Score:2, Insightful)
Missing completely is of course something about CowboyNeal.
I doubt CowbyNeal drives. He would have to come out of his Mom's basement to do that.
Re:Option explanations (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, truckers and lazy people.
Re:Option explanations (Score:2)
You are likely to have an accident about 3 times in your life. About 30% of the time, airbags don't go off when they should. Given that, there are two possible times in your life when an airbag might break your arms. Does it really make sense to change your wheel position to factor that in, and give up all the advantages of driving with your hands at 10 and 2?
Re:Option explanations (Score:3)
There are some advantages to the 8 and 4 position as well. Specifically, that the position reduces fatigue and lets you stay comfortable in a seated position for a longer period of time. Also, AFAIK, the 8 and 4 position facilitates the push-pull steering method which is thought to be superior. 10 and 2 is more conducive to the hand-over-hand method. I'm not aware of any other specific advantages, but I'd love to hear them if you're willing to share.
Whether the benefits outweigh the hassle of changing driving habits I don't know. But if there is a method that is demonstrably superior, it would seem efficient to try to learn it.
Re:Option explanations (Score:2)
Or, sickening as it may be, "None of your business where I put my hands!" is the CowboyNeal option.
Re:Option explanations (Score:2)
Re:Option explanations (Score:2)
Re:Option explanations (Score:2)
1) Does it really matter where you place your hands initially?
The theory behind putting your hands on the top half of the wheel is that you will naturally move your hands in the direction you want to turn, whereas if you put them on the bottom half of the wheel you now have to push right to turn left and vice versa.
3) Perhaps this is an argument for a joystick, rather than a wheel.
Probably not - joysticks are even more prone to overcorrection. Remember, you're not designing for a capable and experienced driver, you're designing for get-the-groceries-grandma and stupid teenagers.
Re:Option explanations (Score:4, Informative)
poor options. (Score:2, Interesting)
1) Regular driving / shifting / cruising usually 1 hand at 6. /4 ish
2) aggressive driving 11 / 5 or 1 / 7
3) driving without any control and needing lots of small corrections due to drifting, hydroplaning, etc. (blizzards, thunderstorms), 9 / 3 or 8
Course, driving a car is something of a special occasion for me...
Re:poor options. (Score:2)
2) aggressive driving 11 / 5 or 1 / 7
For me, it's left hand at 7:30 and right hand at anywhere from 10 to 12, but moving as needed and doing shifts. The steering wheel is lowered.
When driving aggressively, some of the point is to minimize tight turn radii, or large steering wheel movements if you like. You want to have maximum speed leaving any turn, which is easier if you adjust the entry and exit from the turns to as large a turn radius as possible.
So while I make most steering adjustments with the right hand, the left holds a good grip on the wheel, propped against my lap, and only lets up for situations like doing a turn from a stop, or backing up, where I need to move the steering wheel more than a few degrees.
One hand? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm usually driving with one hand.....between 9:45 and 12:00 if my left or 11:00 and 3:00 if my right.
Worse fears than broken arms (Score:2, Funny)
I put my left hand around 7:30. My fear is not my arms being thrown about on airbag deployment but what would happen if I was taking a drink while it did. Lodging that can of redbull into my face at the speed of a bullet doesn't sound pleasant. So I usually tilt my head a bit to the right to prevent this.
Missing Option (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Missing Option (Score:2)
Re:Missing Option (Score:3)
But the point of the 12 o'clock position is to let e'rybody know you're doing some serious driving. At 9 and 3 nobody can see how "serious" your hands are.
What's the point of driving "serious" if nobody sees it?
Re:Missing Option (Score:2)
Indeed, left hand at 6:00, right hand on her legs.
Re:Missing Option (Score:2)
Nothing says safe like banging yourself in the nuts when the airbag deploys.
Re:Missing Option (Score:3)
Also the safest place to hold the wheel on long drives. If you fall asleep while driving, you'll continue straight along.... But if you're one-handing it at 12 o'clock, you'll be headed for the ditch in no time.
No car for me, thank you (Score:3, Interesting)
No car for me, thank you.
I use trains, trams, buses, bicycles and longboards.
So my hands are usually on a book, a nintendo DS or a Rubik's cube.
You know, peak oil, climate change and all that....
Moreover, my leisure and transportation times are overlapping, which wouldn't be the case while driving a car.
Re:No car for me, thank you (Score:5, Funny)
No car for me, thank you.
I use trains, trams, buses, bicycles and longboards.
I learn to ride a bicycle when I was a child, but I never got to play in the street with friends ("you don't know what could happen!"). So, I never learnt to ride with no hands.
I'm leaving work in 5 minutes. If you see someone, on a quite (empty) residential road in London, trying -- but failing -- to ride hands-free, that's probably me.
Re:No car for me, thank you (Score:2)
Start by riding with your hands around but not touching the handle bars. As you gain confidence, lean back more and more. Steering with your weight works well.
I used to ride leaning way back until one day my saddle tilted backwards and left me standing for an instant in the middle of the road while my bike careened down the hill without me. Lesson: make sure your saddle is very secure and don't lean too far backwards...
Re:No car for me, thank you (Score:2)
Re:No car for me, thank you (Score:2)
Also, I would not be able to go home at all, because I would have to leave at 5 in order to walk to the bus stop and get to the transit center before the last outbound bus headed to my area leaves out. Leaving by 5 is not really possible for me.
Re:No car for me, thank you (Score:2)
This.
I don't drive because I never felt the need to do so.
Long distance travel is being done by airplane, train, bus.
Within the city I use public transportation or walk (if the distance is under 2 miles or so).
There are situations when I need a ride (e.g. when taking my son to a doctor's appointment) and then I take a cab.
Oh and I don't have a driver's license either.
depends... (Score:5, Insightful)
It really depends.
During city driving, somewhere between 8/9 and 3/4.
During long-distance Autobahn driving, much closer to 6.
With a pretty girl beside me, one at 6 and the other... well, not on the wheel.
Re:depends... (Score:2)
Re:depends... (Score:2)
During long-distance Autobahn driving, much closer to 6.
This pretty much guarantees loss of control if something happens (puncture, road debris, pothole).
Re:depends... (Score:3)
You missed the word "Autobahn". We don't have potholes there, road debris I can see from a few kilometers away (even with heavy traffic, I'd see the other cars moving to avoid it) and a puncture, frankly if a tire blows at > 200 km/h then steering control is the least of my worries.
Depends on the car (Score:2)
I usually drive with one (left) hand (in America). Up until my current car I've always driven manual transmission vehicles. If it is comfortable I'll rest my elbow on the door and usually hold the wheel between 7 and 9. My current car is has no good place to rest my elbow, so I lock my arm straight out and hold the wheel at about the 10 position.
Whether you drive with one hand or two. When you are about to get into an accident you will most likely be using two hands. I've had the airbags deploy in my vehicle after running over a deer at 75 mph (it came out from in front of a car I was passing on the left and fell down in the road -- I was in a 1995 Ford Probe -- same as a Mazda 626). So I knew I was going to have an accident and I grabbed the wheel with both hands which is what most people instinctively would do -- I can't remember my hand positions at that moment.
The airbags deployed and shattered my windshield (plastic dash airbag cover on the passenger side) and rear-view mirror (driver airbag). My brother (the passenger) claims he was hit in the side of the face by the airbag. I don't remember feeling or seeing the airbags -- though I do sit pretty far back from the steering wheel. Regardless, my arms/face/etc felt fine afterwards.
Right after the impact I was kind of in shock. It was night, the windshield was shattered, the cabin was full of dust from the airbags deploying, lights were blinking on the dash, a deer was tangled up in my front driver side wheel so I couldn't really steer and I was still going 55+ mph. I just kept the wheel straight and let the vehicle come to a stop. The airbags definitely did not help in that accident. They just made controlling the vehicle harder and damn near tripled the repair bill.
Re:Depends on the car (Score:2)
Airbags do seem useless in some crashes, life savers in others, and in cases like the one you relate, actually make things worse. I like to think they are probably a good thing more often then not, but you do hear stories like this and it kinda worries me.
My current car is has no good place to rest my elbow, so I lock my arm straight out and hold the wheel at about the 10 position.
My Honda Civic has this one _nailed_ for me. Center console and door rest are at the absolute perfect height to rest my elbows on while steering casually somewhere in the 8/4 to 7/5 range. It's seriously the most comfortable car I've ever driven. And no I'm not a Honda astroturfer... lots of stuff I can complain about (like the bone-headed positioning of the AC gear .. right where it can get clobbered by road debris with not so much as a wire grill protecting it!).
All over. (Score:2)
But sometimes at 6 o'clock .. (Score:2)
I drive standard, so sometimes, when doing city driving, I have my left hand on the wheel at 6 o'clock, with my right hand on the gearshift, ready to change gears if necessary.
Re:But sometimes at 6 o'clock .. (Score:2)
Depends on the Steering wheel (Score:2)
Holding my hands at 2 and 10 is OK, but I find that I tend to hold on to the parts of the steering wheel that connect the center of the wheel to the outer wheel. I hook my fingers on the branches and the wheel at the same time. I feel I have more control then.
Missing option (Score:5, Funny)
Hey, for once it's relevant.
Manual Transmission, also what type of driving (Score:2)
So I drive a car with a manual transmission. That means that for the most part if I'm driving long distances on the highway, and I drive about 700 miles a week, I usually have my left hand (US driver here) at the 6'oclock position, and right hand on the gearstick, or fiddling with the radio, or just resting. Sometimes when I want to rest my left arm on the door, I switch to the 8 or 9 o'clock position.
But that's during long stretches on the highway. On local roads, as well as during heavy highway traffic, I always put both hands on the wheel (unless switching gears). Also, in bad weather (rain, snow etc), both hands are on the wheel. I unconsciously tend for the 9-3 combo rather than the 10-2 or 8-4. I think that just feels like I have more control on the wheel.
No real point besides the fact that what type of road I'm on and the traffic conditions impact this. Also when I rent a car (which are all automatic transmission), I've noticed that my right hand tends to stay on top of the gear stick, even though once in D, there are no gears to change.
Interesting tangent: Going from manual to automatic, there was a mistake I made once, adn it's one you only make once. The left foot was automatically searching for the clutch, and found a pedal. Unfortunately it was the brake pedal.. The clutch is pressed usually all the way, and the brake is lightly tapped (depending on the situation). My car came to a very sharp and abrupt stop.
Learned the lesson that time. For a time afterwards, the left leg would by all the way to the left with my left arm/elbow firmly resting on it to prevent that from occuring again. As the years have gone by, I've relaxed it a but, but still live in fear of when in a risky/accident-like traffic situation in a rental car, my instincts will kick in and my left foot will slam on the brakes again.
Re:Manual Transmission, also what type of driving (Score:2)
Re:Manual Transmission, also what type of driving (Score:2)
The old Dodge Caravans used to have really, really wide brake pedals, that extended over to where the clutch should have been. That led to a lot of fun arguments in the car...
Re:Manual Transmission, also what type of driving (Score:2)
The one (and only) stick shift Dodge Caravan I ever saw had a much narrower brake pedal than the automatic ones I've driven; brake and clutch were about one foot-width, as in a normal car. On the automatics, though, the brake pedal was twice as wide or more, maybe six or eight inches.
Noon and shifter (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Noon and shifter (Score:2)
Keeping a hand on the shifter is pointless most of the time. You spend much more time steering than changing gears. With 2 hands on the wheel you have a better default position because you've got more control authority in emergencies.
That also goes for putting your hands on the lower quadrants of the wheel: you lose control authority/need to apply more force to change direction.
i do not know (Score:2)
My commute is so standard that sometimes I do not even remember how I got from home to the office.
distribution is... (Score:2)
a near uniform distribution of grip locations across the steering wheel.....I expected the results to imply a natural preference in hand position.
why is the pole always talking about 2 hand placement? I usually drive with one hand.
Re:distribution is... (Score:2)
And for slackers like me.. the car itself. My current car (Honda Civic) has the arm rests perfectly positioned for an 8/4 to 9/3 casual "two fingers on the wheel" driving experience. Previous car I usually rested my left arm on the window frame so usually one hand at 10 or so. Aggressive driving I usually go back to 10 and 2.
Handlebars (Score:2)
Re:Handlebars (Score:2)
It isn't springtime in the southern half of either the western or the eastern hemisphere.
Not sure why... (Score:2)
but now I have Cake's "Stickshifts and Safety Belts" stuck in my head.
9 and 3 (Score:2)
9 and 3, all others are doing it wrong. Did you know that 10 and 2 was never an official recommendation? Just an urban legend, it's always been 9 and 3.
I don't drive! (Score:2)
I have multiple disabilities. Someone else does the driving! :P
Under the age of 25... (Score:3, Funny)
Manual Transmission (Score:2)
I tend to drive 11 and 5, keeps my right hand closer to the shifter.
I use a 24 hour clock (Score:2)
A single hand covers both 2 and 4, you insensitive clod!
what time is it now? (Score:2)
I place my hands at the time I start driving. Seems silly to limit using your hands to specific times of day. You should place them when you start driving, and keep them placed for the majority of the time you're driving.
And if those are supposed to be start-and-stop times, well, I rarely drive for five hours straight (10 till 2).
I drive a Mercedes... (Score:2)
Depends what i'm driving (Score:5, Interesting)
I drive fucking big dump trucks (6m high, 6m wide, 11m long) in an open cut mine. They have a retarder lever on the right hand side of the steering column, which you use to brake, so i steer with my left hand (at about 9 o'clock) and keep my right hand free to brake with.
12-hour centric poll (Score:4, Insightful)
Right hand on the throttle (Score:2)
Left hand for signaling....
Two wheels: FJR1300
Usually about 5:15 and 6:45 (Score:2)
My car has a manual transmission and no power steering. My arms and shoulders are relaxed so I can drive long distance in relative comfort.
I sit closer to the wheel than most people - a byproduct of the high-performance driving courses I took many years ago that taught to drive with your biceps and not your shoulders. Unfortunately in cars with airbags I have to remember to sit farther back than I prefer.
With hands at the bottom of the wheel I can turn it over a half-turn either direction in an instant without having to switch hands - enough to flip or skid at anything much over residential speeds.
I haven't done hand-over-hand since going through the Bondurant courses so I don't have to retrain myself on that one.
left hand at 8 o'clock if driving a manual (Score:2)
Re:On the handles (Score:3)
Fine. Hoods, drops, or flats?
Re:Handlebars... (Score:2)
I've never heard anyone say they were "driving" a bicycle though.
Re:We're supposed to use BOTH hands? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:None of the above: 5:30 (Score:2)
I had an '88 Corolla that didn't have power steering. I didn't notice the lack of assist (I could still palm the wheel) until a friend drove it and asked about it. I think most Harley Davidsons have a higher curb weight than that car.
Re:I dont have hands! (Score:2)