European Parliament Bans Amazon From Its Premises (euractiv.com) 102
Longtime Slashdot reader Kant shares a report from Euractiv: The European Parliament decided to ban Amazon representatives from accessing its buildings on Tuesday (February 27), due to multiple events where the global retailing giant did not attend meetings requested by members of the European Parliament, the European Parliament press service confirmed Euractiv. "In line with rule 123/3 and at the request of the [Employment and Social Affairs] Committee, the Quaestors have authorized the Secretary General [Alessandro Chiocchetti] to withdraw the long-term access badges of the interest representatives of Amazon." It is now the responsibility of the secretary general to concretely initiate the process of withdrawing their badges and to determine the duration of the ban, a European Parliament source close to the matter told Euractiv.
According to the EMPL chair Dragos Pislaru, who signed the letter, the US e-commerce company refuses to attend more than one meeting with EU lawmakers to discuss the condition of Amazon workers. Four cases are mentioned in the letter. The first occurred in May 2021, when Amazon did not attend a parliamentary committee meeting on "Amazon attacks on fundamental workers' rights and freedoms: freedom of assembly and association, and the right to collective bargain and action." The second event concerns the refusal by Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos to attend an exchange of views with EU lawmakers -- instead, the company sent a written answer. The last two episodes happened in December 2023 and January 2024. In the former event, Amazon refused access to its facilities in German and Poland to a MEP, while on the latter, the company did not attend another parliamentary committee meeting dedicated to Amazon workers' conditions. In a statement to Euractiv, an Amazon spokesperson said: "We are very disappointed with this decision, as we want to engage constructively with policymakers. [...] Our commitment continues despite this decision. Amazon regularly participates in activities organized by the European Parliament and other EU institutions -- including Parliamentary hearings -- and we remain committed to participating in balanced, constructive dialogue on issues that affect European citizens."
According to the EMPL chair Dragos Pislaru, who signed the letter, the US e-commerce company refuses to attend more than one meeting with EU lawmakers to discuss the condition of Amazon workers. Four cases are mentioned in the letter. The first occurred in May 2021, when Amazon did not attend a parliamentary committee meeting on "Amazon attacks on fundamental workers' rights and freedoms: freedom of assembly and association, and the right to collective bargain and action." The second event concerns the refusal by Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos to attend an exchange of views with EU lawmakers -- instead, the company sent a written answer. The last two episodes happened in December 2023 and January 2024. In the former event, Amazon refused access to its facilities in German and Poland to a MEP, while on the latter, the company did not attend another parliamentary committee meeting dedicated to Amazon workers' conditions. In a statement to Euractiv, an Amazon spokesperson said: "We are very disappointed with this decision, as we want to engage constructively with policymakers. [...] Our commitment continues despite this decision. Amazon regularly participates in activities organized by the European Parliament and other EU institutions -- including Parliamentary hearings -- and we remain committed to participating in balanced, constructive dialogue on issues that affect European citizens."
marketing babble (Score:5, Insightful)
Amazon regularly participates in activities organized by the European Parliament and other EU institutions -- including Parliamentary hearings -- and we remain committed to participating in balanced, constructive dialogue on issues that affect European citizens.
If that was true you would have turned up when requested as required. Realistically if they want to make Amazon take notice you have to start blocking government departments from any new business with Amazon and that includes AWS
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Hmmm... I'm not aware of anything on *.europa.eu that runs off aws directly or otherwise. What else is there that is done by the EU's institutions and is using Amazon services?
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No, they don't. The EU parliament is not a legislative body.
EU policy is set by the council. Those are the ministers of the member states. Policy may be suggested by the commission. The parliament gets to say yay or nay to that. They also have a say in who gets to be appointed to the commission.
The policies decided by the council are then made directives by the commission, to be implemented by the member states.
The parliament is basically a fig leaf, the only part of the EU bureaucracy that directly re
Re:marketing babble (Score:4, Informative)
No, they don't. The EU parliament is not a legislative body.
Wrong. The Parliament is the legislative body, together with the Council. That's no big difference to countries that have a bicameral parliament. The main difference is that in the EU, the term "parliament" only refers to the lower house whereas in bicameral systems, the term refers to the system of both houses.
What is missing (for both Parliament and Council) is the right of initiative, which is reserved for the Commission. That is an issue in theory. In practice, however, it does not make a big difference as even in countries where the parliament has the right of initiative, the proposal for new laws come from the executive branch anyway.
Policy may be suggested by the commission. The parliament gets to say yay or nay to that. They also have a say in who gets to be appointed to the commission.
The policies decided by the council are then made directives by the commission, to be implemented by the member states.
That's completely wrong. "Directives" are legal acts proposed by the Commission and voted upon by the Parliament and the Council. The title even says "Directive (EU) year/no of the Parliament and the Council". (Same for Regulations.)
The parliament is basically a fig leaf, the only part of the EU bureaucracy that directly represents the voters in the EU. But its competences are very limited. As a voter, you have more influence by voting for your country's parliament.
That's also wrong. If you look at the legislative competencies of the European Union, that's no longer true. Many basic decisions are now made by the European Union, and thus significantly influenced by the European Parliament.
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I don't know where you get your ideas.
You are obviously confused.
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In the US, you have the House of Representatives and the Senate.
In the EU, you have the Parliament and the Commission.
The Commission has one representative from each member country in the EU in much the same way that the Senate has two representatives from each state. The difference is that the representative is appointed by the member country government rather than via the electoral college system in the USA.
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I believe the electoral college is really only used to elect the US president, right?
As far as I know, members of the House of Representatives are by direct election by the various states.
The senators used to be appointed by each state legislature, but an amendment (forgot which one) changed that to allow direct election via the state populace too.
I with the lat
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The Commission has one representative from each member country in the EU
The council and the parliament have to approve the appointed members of the commission. It is not comparable to the senate of the USA at all.
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I'm not a US citizen.
What I am saying is that EU government is based on the same ideas as the USA government, but implemented in a different way that actually achieves the objectives the founders of the USA tried to achieve.
Parliament elected by the people, commission elected by the states, president elected by a knowledgeable group of people who represent the people and the states.
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Re: marketing babble (Score:2)
No. The parliament is equivalent to the hoise of Representatives. The council is equivalent tp the senate, and the commission is equivalent to the administration
Re:marketing babble (Score:5, Insightful)
The European Parliment doesn't have that sort of power. They have a fair amount of political influence but they really aren't in any position to demand that anybody who isn't part of the EU show up and bow and scrape for them. Which is why their "terrible retribution" amounts to not letting Amazon people come inside and use the vending machine in the lobby.
If Amazon wants to "engage constructively with policymakers" then Amazon should show up for hearings with policy makers (in this case the European Parliament committee on employment and social affairs) instead of boycotting them because Amazon feels victimised as a corporation by European labour rights. This could end up with EU 27 national governments, cracking down on abusive labour practices because the EU Parliament and the EU commission and council created a new set of laws targeting exactly the kind of crap Amazon has been getting up to. Creating laws in cooperation with the EU commission and council is what the EU parliament does. On top of that the USA, the FTC and 17 state attorneys general are suing Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power so if Amazon really wants to add to that an EU anti-trust probe to it's portfolio of migraine headaches (and the EU is well known to levy hefty fines) then Amazon can just keep on begging for punishment. I for one plan to enjoy the the consequences they reap on both sides of the Atlantic if Bezos continues pissing off both the EU and the US Govt and on top of that 17 US states.
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So I guess you never heard of Amazon EU S.a.r.L.?
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If that was true you would have turned up when requested as required.
Requested and required are two different things. Requested means you were asked to show up. Required means you have to show up.
It is generally better not to interact with negativity -it only gives power to those who would harm you. This applies in life and in business.
If the meeting scheduled is titled "Amazon attacks on fundamental workers' rights and freedoms: freedom of assembly and association, and the right to collective bargain and action." (as stated in the summary above) -it is not going to be a
union busters (Score:2)
Re:union busters (Score:5, Insightful)
Weird phrasing. I'm having trouble naming a community that does NOT think unions are ok, aside from corporate slave-lords. I mean, there are individuals who shit on unions, just like there are individuals who think that Covid vaccines have micro-ships in them, but communities?
Re: union busters (Score:2)
"Communityâ is often used as an informal and inclusive term for the EU. In fact, the European Communities were a legal thing before the European Union, and is also often interchanged with the singular form. I don't really see anything wrong the original post, and it certainly didn't deserve belittling. It seems the people who moderated you up are unfamiliar with the EU.
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Really? You can't think of one community that thinks unionism destroys or ruins the competitiveness of companies? Is your echo chamber that sound proof?
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I'm Canadian, and I'm thinking that the only people I ever hear whine about unions is Americans. So maybe the echo chamber is mostly there?
It's definitely weird to hear people talk about unions as if they aren't the only thing standing between the average person and the robber barons.
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Maybe that's because you live in Canada, where everyone's in a union?
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Most of the US doesn't really like unions, hence we got rid of or weakened most of them years back.
While they are starting to grow in popularity a little bit these days, they are far from a common and welcomed entity in most places o
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Weird phrasing. I'm having trouble naming a community that does NOT think unions are ok, aside from corporate slave-lords.
Someone appears to have an overly rosy picture of how unions have played out in America in the past. Let me know when you find Jimmy Hoffa.
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Unions have been a huge boon in most of the world. Why is it people in the US are the only ones who seem to think they are evil or something? Like, exactly how is it BAD that Amazon employees want to unionize? How is it GOOD that Amazon pulls every dirty trick they can (including lots of illegal BS they keep getting fined over) to try and prevent the workers form joining a union? What sort of logic is that?
As for Jimmy Hoffa, that's what happens when organized crime and power brokers get involved in *everyt
The Foundations of the Universe Shuddered Today (Score:5, Funny)
A force twelve wave of irony exploded from Earth when representatives of a giant corporation avoided a meeting.
Scientists are still trying to determine the extent of the damage.
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I am trying to decide which is funnier, this or grown men and women responding to someone not showing up by banning them from showing up.
Its like someone sat down, then someone else pointed at them and said sit expecting everyone to believe they have the power in that situation.
I would be if Amazon came calling, this will be forgotten in less than a second.
Re:The Foundations of the Universe Shuddered Today (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The Foundations of the Universe Shuddered Today (Score:4, Interesting)
It's much more like not showing up for traffic court and having your driver's license revoked, but that analogy doesn't fit your spin.
"I would be if Amazon came calling, this will be forgotten in less than a second."
Depends on whether they show up to resolve the traffic ticket of if they're using the roads to operate their business.
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Nah, Amazon will just cut off Prime for all the ministers, and it will be solved instantly. /SNARK
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Nah, Amazon will just cut off Prime for all the ministers, and it will be solved instantly. /SNARK
Furthermore, where are the ministers going to order their ermine robes and golden scepters from now? Good luck with Temu.
Too late (Score:3)
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bah dum bum
Re:The Foundations of the Universe Shuddered Today (Score:4, Insightful)
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If your profit is dependent on fucking over your employees then yeah the EU doesn't like profit. Not everywhere is like the USA where it is a race to the bottom and fuck everyone that gets in the road.
Why don't you make it illegal to buy from Amazon in Europe? Outright ban any sales, and kick any distribution centers out, and then you'll have the economic purity that the EU needs, free of any of teh evilz 'murrican abuse of 'murrican citizens
That's the strange thing in my estimation - the cure is most simple. EU in it's wisdom knows what it's citizens want and need, and it has the power to almost instantly fix the problem - even to replace it with European Union based businesses which will be a tremend
Re: The Foundations of the Universe Shuddered Toda (Score:2)
Micromanaging an economy only works on paper. In practice it fails catastrophically. This is the fundamental flaw of all practical applications of communism we have observed
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Micromanaging an economy only works on paper. In practice it fails catastrophically. This is the fundamental flaw of all practical applications of communism we have observed
Exactly. Which is my roundabout point in all of this.
The EU is attempting to micromanage with fines. The problem is, they are trying to regulate the world.
And before someone gets schwifty, people like to point out how certain things in the USA are regulated. Say automobiles. If your auto company doesn't meet certain safety standards, or emissions, you aren't allowed to sell it here. Pretty simple - don't obey our regulations, you don't get to sell your cars here. Which is actually to my point. If Ama
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How exactly is Amazon fucking over employees?
Can you list the specific complaints the EU has?
If Amazon is so bad there, why are people working for them?
I mean, even over in Europe, people have a choice on who they work for, no?
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"responding to someone not showing up by banning them from showing up"
Except that's not what's going on. The ban if implemented prevents them from entering the building at will rather than at specific request for a specific purpose.
If you gave someone the key to your house so they could walk you dog, and they never walked your dog but they did go through your sock drawer, you would not find it controversial to take they key back.
"if Amazon came calling, this will be forgotten"
Since getting Amazon to show up
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The ability to parse sarcasm on the internet is a lost skill.
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The ripples of that shake across Zoom, Google meet, Teams and those other 50 online "meeting" platforms are staggering indeed.
Amazon Chime was nearly shattered.
Sounds like Amazon made a tactical error (Score:5, Informative)
Amazon assumed they could get away with using their access when it suited their purposes and avoid the paired responsibility of having to explain themselves even when it didn't.
Now they have no access, which will ultimately cost them money.
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Oh no, they have "no access".
Wait, this is European Parliament. And "revoking permanent badges so they'll need to request short term access badges to come". So useless political boondongle that has no binding ability to propose or change legislation, and they still have access, they just need to request it.
Fuck around and find out indeed. Whatever will Amazon do now, continue to largely ignore the organisation that can't do anything about it, while focusing lobbying efforts on Commission that actually can?
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When they request a short term badge ... then they will be asked if they can also attend a meeting on Unions ... and if they can't then it will be refused
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Can you elaborate on this? I have no idea what this means, and what relation "Unions" (I assume this means worker's unions since you didn't define what you mean by that) have with European Parliament access.
I banned Amazon, too (Score:3, Funny)
I've invited Bezos to my house several times to discuss how next day deliveries aren't, his space flight plans, and to game on the ps5 but he's never come by so I have banned him and his representatives from entering my home until these issues are rectified to my satisfaction.
Subpoenas and warrants? (Score:1)
They do have subpoenas and warrants in the EU, right? There's a lot of babble there about about Amazon refusing this or not attending that. But there's nothing there about actual legal proceedings against Amazon; which makes these requests either:
1) A fishing expedition for crimes that have not even been alleged yet... in which case no potential defendant in their right mind would *EVER* play along and help with their own prosecution or cooperate in any way beyond compliance with a subpoena or warrant and
Re:Subpoenas and warrants? (Score:4, Informative)
They do have subpoenas and warrants in the EU, right?
Not right at all.
Warrants cannot be issued by the European Parliament at all, they are a thing for the member country's judiciary systems. There is also a bunch of work done in committees that relies on voluntary appearance of people, invited to testify, an invitation they can choose to ignore.
You can read the gory details here.
https://www.europarl.europa.eu... [europa.eu]
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member countries', even.
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Except the "EU" child is the owner of the playground and some cheerleaders spend their time on that playground, and when (when, not if) the "cool" kid wants to fuck those cheerleaders (make business with from EU governments), they need access to the playground.
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This is EU Parliament, not Commission. It's a generally powerless boondongle that puts a figleaf of representative democracy on EU, where powers with actual political powers being Commission and Council are not directly elected by the people.
So they like to posture like this a lot. Because no one of import actually treats them as relevant and lobbying groups go to Commission and national politicians (read: Council), but Parliament needs to project an image of importance to the public.
And so you get stories
Re:Subpoenas and warrants? (Score:5, Informative)
I'm going to leave these here:
https://www.europarl.europa.eu... [europa.eu]
https://www.europarl.europa.eu... [europa.eu]
https://www.citizensinformatio... [citizensinformation.ie]
Just in case anyone want to actually know how EU lawmaking and the parliament works. Rather than reading the load of nonsense I'm replying to. The MEPs of the EU parliament work with the commission to draft law, it isn't done in isolation. The Commission is simply responsible for the process. MEPs have the power to dismiss the Commission, so ultimately the buck stops with the EU Parliament.
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It would indeed help to read it, even though primary purpose of these texts is to obfuscate the actual powers behind posturing. As long as you remember to actually cross reference it with powers of Commission and Council, so you understand that EU Parliament has a lot of ceremonial "powers" and very few real ones.
As I explain above.
If you don't attend these meetings... (Score:1)
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They are banning Amazon's lobbyists which regularly enter the building to discuss topics of their choice with lawmakers.
More info (Score:5, Informative)
https://www.wired.com/story/am... [wired.com]
"Amazon has become the second company ever to have its lobbyists banned from the European Parliament"
"The ban, which means the 14 Amazon employees who had access to the European Parliament can no longer enter the building without an invitation, follows the company’s decision not to attend a January hearing about working conditions inside its fulfillment centers. "
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I found this amusing as hell:
Amazon refused access to its facilities in German and Poland to a MEP
Show up to any Amazon facility without prior approval and you won't get in no matter WHO the frack you are. When I worked at the AWS SOC one of Bezos' direct reports and his staff wanted to tour the Dublin data center when it was new, but his secretary forgot to add his name to the list. In spite of much yelling and threats the staff got to take the dog and pony show while the VP cooled his heels in the lobby. Once he got back to Seattle and calmed down he wrote recommendatio
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>> Show up to any Amazon facility without prior approval
Well, now Amazon lobbyists will need to get prior approval in order to gain entry to a European Parliament building which seems very fair.
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Probably at least because those hearings will not look at Amazon FC working conditions compared with any other company doing the same thing. I've worked in warehouses, I've done shipping/receiving, I've worked for a Target Distribution Center. I've also worked with a number of people who formerly worked in the Amazon FCs, and what they described was a frack of a lot better than any non-Teamsters warehouse operation that I've heard of and the pay and benefits were head and shoulders better.
I don't know abo
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It's not exactly a "ban". Or if it is, I'm banned from the European Parliament, as are most posters here, since I can't get in without an invitation. Amazon are still allowed in, but only if someone explicitly invites them, and presumably have to stop by the security desk to be let in rather than going straight in with their pass. Which is already the case for 99.99% of the population.
Ban all lobbyists, not just Amazon (Score:3)
Why should any lobbyists be allowed? Why do these company reps have more access to legislators than any other member of the public?
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Perhaps the real reason they got banned is "they didn't donate enough" rather than "they didn't attend a meeting".
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because lobbyists spend money on politicians via various "donations" to campaigns or organizations, which benefit the politicians.
The EU is not the USA. The actual answer is because EU parliament passes regulations and directives (not laws directly). Those regulations and directives are drawn up in association with lobbyists as part of design. Lobbyists here are defined as "special interest groups", and they are involved in the recommendation process by design, not by money. In fact you don't need to donate even a single cent to be a "lobbyist". The fact that some companies donate in an attempt to strong-arm is sort of irrelevant, and
Re:Ban all lobbyists, not just Amazon (Score:4, Informative)
Here the legal framework https://eur-lex.europa.eu/lega... [europa.eu] It's professionals representing an economical sector giving advice to lawmakers such they don't legislate in vacuum. They get invited to those meetings like Amazon was, and give feedback. In principle you can yourself form an NGO and register as lobbyist. There are some FOSS lobbyists, for example the FFII https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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And if Amazon is invited to a meeting they want to go to they'll get a guest badge now, just like everyone else.
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To veto legislation pushed by Commission where actual political power is vested and to approve Commission presented to it or reject it.
And remind me again who appoints the commission? Oh yeah the parliament. If the parliament don't like what the commission are doing on their behalf, they can dissolve the entire thing.
Like many angry internet ranters who take umbrage on behalf of the kinds of giant corporations that would kill you and sell you as meat if it was profitable, you have very little idea about wha
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>And remind me again who appoints the commission?
De facto, Council. De jure Parliament gets to rubber stamp it, or veto it as a whole. It can't even veto individual commissars and approve the rest. It's take it or leave it, because no one actually cares about its opinions.
Re:Parliament posturing (Score:4, Interesting)
Are you American by any chance?
The EU parliament debates and passes or rejects laws. It doesn't write them, but it can ask the commission to do so. They can dismiss the commission if the commission refuses to do so.
They also debate the legislation, pass is back for amendment and accept our reject it.
The commission isn't getting any legislation past the parliament that the parliament doesn't want.
The "no one cares" attitude is why we had Brexit. You know the ongoing shitshow which is never done right or extreme enough despite being run by the initiators of it for a good while and being far more extreme than promised.
Maybe Boris Johnson will go down in history as the man who saved the EU, because he managed to convince even the extreme factions like the FN that it was a terrible idea.
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I'm Finnish. I'm also well educated on the manner. For example, this is a typical anglo take:
>The EU parliament debates and passes or rejects laws. It doesn't write them, but it can ask the commission to do so. They can dismiss the commission if the commission refuses to do so.
For those not in the know: it doesn't actually work like this. Technically it's in the texts, but power balance within the Parliament guarantees it's dead letter of the agreement. Because this sort of direct conflict is how Anglo c
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I mean, technically that's true. We were a part of Russian Empire until 1917. Then we "fled", that being declaring independence.
But if you're going to go that deep into history, why not call me for fleeing from Sweden back in 1809?
A Title (Score:2)
Amazon needs to realize when they're not the biggest bully in town. :D
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They will. Same as Apple will. May take some time though.
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They realize that they're not the US State Department already.
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You mean the FBI, surely.
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The FBI is only the biggest bully in the US, I thought you meant in the world. :-)
Bezos is not CEO of Amazon (Score:2)
Bezos stepped down from being CEO of Amazon almost 3 freaking years ago at this point.
If the politicians are so out of touch that they don't even know who they are requesting to parade around in front of the cameras, then it does not surprise me at all that folks are not bothering to show up.
"Get your sh*t together" would be my reply as well.
Re: Bezos is not CEO of Amazon (Score:2)
He isnâ(TM)t now, but the article makes reference to 2021, when Jeff Bezos was still CEO. Mind you wasnâ(TM)t there a whole pandemic situation on there?
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No it doesn't. It says
"The second event concerns the refusal by Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos to attend an exchange of views with EU lawmakers -- instead, the company sent a written answer. The last two episodes happened in December 2023 and January 2024"
So did it happen in 2023 or 2021? If it happened in 2023 then he was not CEO for a very long time.
And if it happened in 2021, then you're saying that these badges are being revoked for something that happened 3 years ago which is also ridiculous.
Either the article
We don't need Amazon (Score:2)
We are doing perfectly fine without and have no lack of options to do online shopping.
And they did this why? (Score:2)
"In a statement to Euractiv, an Amazon spokesperson said: "We are very disappointed with this decision, as we want to engage constructively with policymakers." Translation: we don't want to be in public, we want to bribe legislators in private.