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Reddit Bans Anti-Vax Subreddit After Site-Wide Protest (twitter.com) 218

New submitter redmid17 writes: A week after allowing anti-vaccine subreddits to remain and a day after hundreds of large subreddits went silence in protest of the decision, Reddit banned the largest anti-vaccine subreddit , r/NoNewNormal, for brigading, which is sending forum members to other subs to push agendas. "Antivaxxers in Reddit's NoNewNormal community, named after the idea that there's a mysterious global cabal trying enact a 'new normal' of compliance and using COVID as a cover story, had been brigading communities like r/Aww, dedicated to pictures of cute dogs and kids," writes NBC News reporter Ben Collins.
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Reddit Bans Anti-Vax Subreddit After Site-Wide Protest

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  • by Merk42 ( 1906718 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @05:47PM (#61753931)
    This just proves further that it's all a conspiracy! They don't want you to know the TRUTH!
    • Re:Don't you see? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @06:15PM (#61754055)

      This just proves further that it's all a conspiracy! They don't want you to know the TRUTH!

      Unfortunately, Poe's Law [wikipedia.org] applies here.

      The anti-vax morons will make exactly this argument.

      Truth panels are not going to solve this problem.

  • r/NoNewNormal (Score:4, Insightful)

    by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @05:52PM (#61753953)
    r/NoNewNormal didn't strike me as only anti-vaxx -- it struck me as being against crisis politics being used to normalize things like online education, perma-work-from-home, and electronic ID checks everywhere that people go. There were many legitimate privacy and civil liberties concerns raised between the moans of the hardcore anti-science types.
    • Interesting. I hadnt seen that thread. So if electronic ID are mandatory will the same people againt voter ID on the basis its a financial burden on the poor, also protest the electronic ID system? It sounds more expensive for someone too broke to rub two nickels together.
      • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

        by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 )
        And, for the record, I'm against both voter ID and normalization of ID checks for most other aspects of life. Anonymity is privacy, and data that aren't collected can't be abused.
    • Re:r/NoNewNormal (Score:5, Insightful)

      by The Evil Atheist ( 2484676 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @06:34PM (#61754137)
      We wouldn't have crisis politics if these idiots didn't perpetuate the crisis in the first place. We had a virus. We know that masks, social distancing, quarantines and lockdowns work to give us time. We could have had sensible crisis measures that goes away at the end of it. But these idiots made sure the disease took hold, giving it ample opportunity to mutate and become worse.
      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by sg_oneill ( 159032 )

        That virus could have been squashed by mid last year if multiple world leaders, Xi Jinping, Donald Trump, Bolsonaro, Boris Johnson, etc had actually worked together in implementing the advice recieved from scientists instead of politicizing this shit so badly that politicians literally think its acceptable to ban mask and vaccine mandates FOR SOME REASON. The worlds gone nuts, and its extracting an astonishing price in human lives.

        • Re:r/NoNewNormal (Score:5, Informative)

          by sfcat ( 872532 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @10:37PM (#61754811)

          That virus could have been squashed by mid last year if multiple world leaders, Xi Jinping, Donald Trump, Bolsonaro, Boris Johnson, etc had actually worked together in implementing the advice recieved from scientists instead of politicizing this shit so badly that politicians literally think its acceptable to ban mask and vaccine mandates FOR SOME REASON. The worlds gone nuts, and its extracting an astonishing price in human lives.

          You really believe this don't you. You do realize that at no time has any reputable public health official, doctor or medical researcher actually said this in public. You are spreading anti-science misinformation right now. What public health officials said is that we can flatten the curve and reduce its spread so the health system doesn't get overloaded. Stopping it from spreading everywhere was never an option after it escaped China (maybe if you are an island you could but not outside of that). Nothing about this has changed in the last 20 months. If it had, there wouldn't be cases in Australia where they are using martial law to enforce lockdowns. You are misrepresenting what the science says. Don't do that. It doesn't help. You are just spreading fear for no good reason. You know how right-wingers say libs are p*ssies, this is why right here.

          • Re:r/NoNewNormal (Score:5, Interesting)

            by trawg ( 308495 ) on Thursday September 02, 2021 @02:55AM (#61755475) Homepage

            Australian here. Where is the martial law? I seem to have missed it.

          • The science says reducing the R-value of a disease is helpful for everyone. Reduce it below 1, and the disease dies out. We've done that before with other diseases. Masks and vaccines reduce the R-value among populations that use them.

            Pardon the condescension, but the r-value is the number of people, on average, that a single person infects. If each person who gets sick infects sixteen other people because they go to parties and get haircuts and infect everyone there, then the r-value is sixteen. And the
        • Wuhan locked people down in January. People in the West, including on Slashdot, thought it was some CCP takeover scheme. It was the Western world who would not work with China, instead pushing conspiracies and downplaying the threat, even though the CCP's reaction made it very clear how damaging the virus could be. The CCP only politicized the issue by being the CCP.
        • While agree wholeheartedly with how badly some leaders have managed the epidemic & subsequently pandemic, I think it's likely that we could've done much more than limit casualties & that we'd still be in a similar position today but with lower death tolls, higher vaccination rates, lower vaccine hesitancy, & fewer & less influential antivax groups (also worth mentioning that some govts appear to be weaponising COVID-19 misinformation for geopolitical gains). I remember very early on, some ex
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Moryath ( 553296 )

      it struck me as being against crisis politics being used to normalize things like online education, perma-work-from-home, and electronic ID checks everywhere that people go

      So in other words, it's a tinfoil hat group spreading conspiracy theories and refusing to engage in rational discussion. That's EXACTLY why it needed to go.

      normalize things like online education - Online education has become more normal over the past 20 years and will continue to do so, because of the efficiencies and the demand fo

  • by EndlessNameless ( 673105 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @05:53PM (#61753955)

    ...to peddle their nonsense somewhere else.

    I don't know why people insist on reposting debunked garbage, but I, for one, appreciate sites where I don't have to see it.

    The sooner this rubbish fails completely out of the "marketplace of ideas", the better.

    • by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @05:58PM (#61753971)
      There needs to be a distinction between anti-vaxx/anti-mask/anti-science types and those with legitimate privacy and civil liberties concerns about things like electronic vaccine passports for internal use (which can be used to generate databases of people's "check-ins"), mandatory work-from-home where employees are on camera in their homes, etc. We don't want to normalize surveillance in one's home, virtual everything, and ID checkpoints everywhere one goes outside of the home. Remember the lessons from 9/11. Civil liberties are destroyed with the best intentions, combined with a bit of nudging from government contractors that make bank from mass surveillance.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @06:10PM (#61754027)
          The Internet also amplifies the views of the most unreasonable people from both sides. I'm not anti-vaxx. I literally spent two days a week every week for half of 2021 volunteering at a vaccine site. But if I dared question the potential for abuse of things like Excelsior Pass in NY, I was mercilessly attacked, gaslighted, called an anti-vaxxer who was contributing to mass death.
          • by Darinbob ( 1142669 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @06:48PM (#61754197)

            But the internet seems to greatly amplify the views of kooks. For example, flat earthers as a conspiracy oriented have been around for about 150 years or so, and it was around with the mimeographed newsletters back when I was a kid, and it was definitely dying out. But the internet gave it new life and now flat earthers have enough numbers that they're having conferences, alliances with similar groups, being organized, etc.

            I think part of the cause is that while everyone has access to the internet it still takes a bit of energy to get off of one's ass and start trying to get organized on the net and push one's views. And the kooks have that energy and motivation, so their amplification is larger than that of many others.

            Ie, there are more anti-vaxxers trying to push their "cause" then there are privacy advocates. Especially in the modern age where privacy is seen as less important than getting your hands on the latest smartphone that will spy on you.

            The irony here is that if everyone got vaccinated, we would be back to TheOldNormal much more quickly.

            • by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @06:56PM (#61754229)
              Which is why I approve of using "Old Normal" methods to push everyone to get vaccinated. No vaccine: no tax refund, higher health insurance costs, no employment, and no school enrollment. Those are all basically one-time checks that don't require the implementation of ID checks in all walks of life, and have been done for years. If you're strict about all of those things, you could get 95% of eligibles to vaccinate and get rid of the need for "immunity passports" for anything other than international travel.
        • It seems to me the distinction is not by design, there is no cunning plan by the evil genius anti-vaxxers, to put in more moderate opinions. Sites like redit contain many people, some will be more moderate than others. This happens seems to happen on all issue, because most things are not binary.

          This to me seem the most likely reason why this happens, not some malevolent intent.

          My solution to anti-vaxxers, is not to stop them speaking, but to say ok don't get vaccinated, but your insurer, or the state depen

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        The anti-vaxxers just make it harder for legitimate concerns to be heard.

        I've been in that situation and nobody wants to listen. In fact many get quite hostile almost immediately. To be honest they are almost as much idiots as the anti-vaxxers.

        • by sfcat ( 872532 )

          The "tribal political hacks" just make it harder for legitimate concerns to be heard.

          I've been in that situation and nobody wants to listen. In fact many get quite hostile almost immediately. To be honest they are almost as much idiots as the "tribal political hacks".

          FTFY

    • by e3m4n ( 947977 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @06:05PM (#61754011)
      Its the new tinfoil hat of this decade. It just gets more traction because the government really has, in the past, given us plenty of reasons to distrust it. Everything from medical experiments on prisoners and african-americans to burying the warren commission report for 100 years, to 'Our troops are not in cambodia' to the Iran-Contra affair. Its kind of like taking your wife back after she got caught cheating on you 3 different times. It doesnt take more than a bar room whisper for you to believe she is at it again.
    • by MobileTatsu-NJG ( 946591 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @06:11PM (#61754037)

      I don't know why people insist on reposting debunked garbage, but I, for one, appreciate sites where I don't have to see it.

      If my Facebook feed is any indication it's a perpetually unsatisfied desire to finally be right about something for once. My feed went from "no masks!" to numerous flareups across the country leading to a change towards "we hate pedophiles!" ... but then Gaetz came along so they pivoted again to "Biden is taking our hamburgers" away, then Dr. Seuss, and now it's all about how we're now living in Nazi Germany because businesses reacted to dying customers.

      My hope is one day they land on something reality will support and they can finally see some relief.

      • If my Facebook feed is any indication it's a perpetually unsatisfied desire to finally be right about something for once.

        It is likely they think they have been right all along.

        • The reason I don't think so is the move from anti-masks to aggressively-anti-pedophilia happened like a week or two after after a major holiday when all the numbers started coming in. When it reached: "Ya'all can't really argue about this anymore." All the mask talk stopped altogether. I don't mean they reversed course, just acted like they never spoke up in the first place.

          I personally think this is why mask burning briefly became a thing. After-all if we can get everybody to believe masks are evil

  • by SomePoorSchmuck ( 183775 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @05:59PM (#61753975) Homepage

    ...disseminating information that people take to other places to push an agenda is literally the entire raison d'etre of Reddit, Of Slashdot. Of the entire blog/discussion/post/share Internet.

    Moderating harassment to keep a usable S/N ratio is something every forum of any kind has to work out for its members. But that's applying an action-based filter, not a content-based filter.

    If you have a forum whose purpose is to promote discussion of embryonic stem-cell research, and people show up there to do nothing but flood the forum with pictures of fetuses, or troll/flame discussions with their spiritual beliefs, you filter that activity and ban those users because their behavior doesn't fit with your user community. Their beliefs have nothing to do with it. If someone posted a thread proposing a process by which the same research outcomes could be obtained without using embryonic tissue, that would reasonably fit within the nature of the forum.

    • disseminating information that people take to other places to push an agenda is literally the entire raison d'etre of Reddit, Of Slashdot. Of the entire blog/discussion/post/share Internet.

      It used to be, but largely the children are in charge now.... those who cannot handle mature discussion, those who just want to stamp metaphorical feet and make something the dislike or disagree with at the moment, varnish in a cloud of flame...

      Maybe sometime another internet will arise on the ashes of the old, but I woul

  • by Asynchronously ( 7341348 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @06:00PM (#61753983)

    I see misinformation everywhere I look. Who decides what is approved misinformation vs what is not?

    For instance, anti-evolution rhetoric is misinformation, but nobody seems to be advocating for banning it.

    • by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @06:17PM (#61754065)

      I see misinformation everywhere I look. Who decides what is approved misinformation vs what is not?

      For instance, anti-evolution rhetoric is misinformation, but nobody seems to be advocating for banning it.

      People don't catch/spread an easily communicable disease and then they/others very possibly die a week later by stupidly believing anti-evolution rhetoric.

      • Except wars have been fought over religion, and may people have died over that belief, probably more that would die from Covid.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        You don't remember Gay Pride before AIDS, do you? Or the "free love" of the 1960's or earlier, if you're as old as me? AIDS was insidious because it was dormant as mere HIV for as long as 10 years, but the enthusiastic promiscuity of members of those political movements has killed millions over the last 40 years. We have had people die, in agonizing fashion, from careless behavior in pursuit of their personal and political ideals and more than 500,000 people still die annually from HIV related illnesses, ma

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by rickb928 ( 945187 )

        I was masked, un-inoculated, and did not contract this easily communicable disease for 15 months we agree it was circulating in the US. My sister contracted it in November 2019, and survived it. So actually, for me, it's been those 15 months or so. Now inoculated, not yet contracted. It's communicable, and seems easdily so, under certain relatively common circumstances, most of which have been mitigated by changes in behavior.

        But so far I cannot quite agree that not wearing a mask is universally a death sen

      • OTOH, COVID IS evolving - right now. Its become more transmissible and made some vaccines less effective. That evolution has a direct impact on policy decisions. That's the thing about science, you can't just take some of it - its all one big interconnected thing.
    • by MobileTatsu-NJG ( 946591 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @06:31PM (#61754119)

      Who decides what is approved misinformation vs what is not?

      The factor you're overlooking is: Death.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Well, the anti-evolution brigade (now known as intelligent design because creationism got a bad rap) aren't really harming that many people, except for intellectual harm. Whereas anti-vaxxers cause actual harm, hospitalizations, deaths, etc. It'd be fine if they just said "I don't want to get vaccinated, but you can go ahead if you like it doesn't bother me that your views differ from mine." But no, their attitude is that they feel that they must stop others from also being vaccinated - making sure no te

    • A week ago they posted in announcements that they are not the arbiters and open discussion is valuable, such that information can be discussed and individual conclusions made instead of one-sided discussions.

      The post today in security is the sub got banned for brigading in other subs, interfering with discussions in other communities, breaking policies.

      Obviously in mainstream media the nuance is lost.

    • anti-evolution rhetoric is misinformation, but nobody seems to be advocating for banning it.

      Generally speaking that misinformation doesn't lead to deaths pretty directly and immediately. Including in members outside of the Creationist movement.

      Also in America if you say "Religious belief" it gets a free pass.

      "What are you doing there?!"
      "Oh me, I'm cutting off the tip of my kid's dick."
      "Oh my god stop!"
      "God told me to."
      "Oh well, then.. carry on."

      • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        Well, most Americans cut their kids' dicks off because a religious zealot who invented corn flakes, built spas for crazy people and wanted to set up a eugenics registry told them too.

        He thought dick chopping reduced sexual desire. Thought corn flakes did too.

    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 ) <[ten.frow] [ta] [todhsals]> on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @09:50PM (#61754693)

      I see misinformation everywhere I look. Who decides what is approved misinformation vs what is not?

      For instance, anti-evolution rhetoric is misinformation, but nobody seems to be advocating for banning it.

      Believing in creationism is unlikely to hurt people.

      However, claiming ivermercin is a "cure" or "will protect you" from COVID is misinformation that should be removed, because people actively following it will hurt themselves and others. Heck, people injected themselves with bleach because someone suggested it's a good way to clean COVID out of your blood. or hydrochlroquine.

      Misinformation, or rather, dissent that's allowable is saying the vaccines are somewhat experimental and you're not comfortable getting the shot. It's even allowed if you properly take precautions as an unvaccinated person by keep distance, wearing masks and keeping away from crowds. And no one would have any problem if you felt this way and expressed it.

      However, actively claiming it's a fake, "muh freedumbs" or other thing, that generally starts crossing the line because now people can get hurt (especially if you're trying to do it in front of a hospital and blocking the entrance).

      Likewise, the idiocy behing Stop the Steal is getting people hurt and wasting tax dollars doing endless searches. After all, who do you think is going to pay for the replacement voting machines after the "forensic investigation" basically rendered them as uncertifiable for election use? Would you say that was worth the freedom of speech to cost taxpayers millions replacing what were once perfectly usable machines just to chase down some alleged fraud that there was no evidence of happening?

  • Like squeezing a water ballon
  • by markdavis ( 642305 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @06:02PM (#61753989)

    >"Reddit banned the largest anti-vaccine subreddit , r/NoNewNormal, for brigading, which is sending forum members to other subs to push agendas."

    So it is not because of the "protest", and not because of "misinformation", it is because of mass posting of irrelevant (off-topic) info in other groups. Just make sure to do that for any "brigading" (spammers), regardless of the source or direction or topic and that should probably sit fine with everyone (except the spammers).

    • What's to stop the spammers from using other venues to organize, then spamming subreddits anyway. Rabid Trumpkins didn't go away after r/Teh_Ronald was banned.
      • >"What's to stop the spammers from using other venues to organize, then spamming subreddits anyway.

        Well, they really should be banning spammers, not subreddits. A subreddit existing is of no consequence. People from it invading other subreddits is. They took an easier out that probably is less appropriate.

        I suppose a somewhat relevant example I could use is Spamcop. When I report a spam to them, they sent a report about the actual sender, but also about what is being referenced in the Email (the site

        • How do you ban spammers from Reddit, considering that most IP addys are dynamic and email addresses are a dime a dozen? Phone verification would be seen as intrusive since there's a long tradition of "throwaway" accounts on Reddit.
          • All valid points.
            You can still remove the accounts and all their associated postings when they are discovered. That should be enough.

  • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @06:30PM (#61754115)
    private companies can pick and choose who uses their service so long as it's not a protected class. And Section 230 gives computer application based services the right to moderate without the need common carrier. Finally the Internet can't exist without S230, since without it we'd have DMCA style takedown notices for any comment anyone disagrees with.

    This is exactly how the Internet is supposed to function. Reddit is a community, the community decided they didn't want anti-vaxx on their site. They went to the site owners and said "get rid of this or we'll leave". So the site owners did what the community wanted rather than losing them.

    And as for that communities "entitlement", well, they make Reddit what it is. Reddit has no content without them. So I think they have a right to be entitled. When did we decide that nobody has a right to feel entitled to anything?
  • ... pictures of cute dogs ...

    Those monsters, how dare they ... wait ... is this political manipulation? Sending viewers to other "new world order" sites for unsubstantiated Qanon drivel should definitely be punished but for pictures of puppies?

    ... a 'new normal' of compliance ...

    There's always been a Moral Majority telling the working-class what they can't do. Eg. sex education, oral sex, pre-marital sex, prostitution, abortion, recreational drugs. Today, they continue to dictate what is 'normal'.

  • by battingly ( 5065477 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @08:12PM (#61754459)
    Stupid people used to be annoying, but harmless to all but themselves. Now, thanks to social media, they can band together to become a substantial force for evil.
  • Ban QAnon next! Please!
  • Attempting a serious conversation on reddit is an exercise in futility.

  • So many russian trolls trying to make people stupid... and conservatives bit.

  • by llzackll ( 68018 ) on Thursday September 02, 2021 @12:49AM (#61755213)

    I can't say I'm familiar with any of this, nor do I subscribe to any of these conspiracy theories but something about a the statement about a "new normal" of compliance, and them getting banned on reddit is kind of funny, as it is sort of a compliance thing. Seems like a self fulfilling prophecy, or something .

    Either way Just seems there is too much censorship nowadays, and stuff about covid is a really touchy subject. I don't know why so many internet sites are so eager to hit the ban hammer nowadays. It's kind of disturbing. I grew up on the Internet in the 90's and early 2000's. This kind of stuff would have never happened. Now it seems you can get banned for saying anything that isn't politically correct. I guess that's the new normal of compliance they speak of, and I don't know what to think of the world of today.

    • I grew up on the Internet in the 90's and early 2000's. This kind of stuff would have never happened.

      That's utter tosh. Even pre internet, some BBSs were very permissive, other ones the Sysop would ban you if they didn't like the look of your handle. It was always the domain of the owner: they were judge, jury and executioner and you had neither right nor expectation of a fair trial. Likewise with IRC channel owners and mods.

      Then came web forums. And it was exactly the same with some forums being more heav

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