China Says All Cryptocurrency-related Transactions Are Illegal and Must Be Banned (techcrunch.com) 152
China's central bank said on Friday that all cryptocurrency-related transactions are illegal in the country and they must be banned, citing concerns around national security and "safety of people's assets." From a report: The world's most populated nation also said that foreign exchanges are banned from providing services to users in the country. [...] The People's Bank of China separately ordered internet, financial and payment companies from facilitating cryptocurrency trading on their platforms. The central bank said cryptocurrencies cannot be circulated in the market as they are not fiat currency. Offenders, the central bank warned, will be "investigated for criminal liability in accordance with the law."
So what this means is... (Score:3)
They gave ample amount of warning to large bitcoin and ethereum miners to get the hell out of China, that having happened a few months ago.
I guess all the big time miners with proper CCP connections are out of the country, so the rest of the crackdown can proceed.
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I don't agree with your meaning. I think it more likely that it means the Chinese now have sufficient supplies of funny money hidden away that they can disrupt the economies of any country that wants to touch the stuff, and now they are isolating their own economy from the coming shocks.
However, if they really are banning cryptocurrency for its own sake, then I might count that as the first good reason I've heard in defense of cryptocurrency. If China really hates it, then it might be a good thing after all
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I think it more likely that it means the Chinese now have sufficient supplies of funny money hidden away that they can disrupt the economies of any country that wants to touch the stuff/quote>
Or they found an exploit of some sort- a way to crash, cripple, or inflate/deflate cryptocurrencies at will, and are getting ready to do so.
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I think it would be hard to find any single exploit that would affect all of the cryptocurrencies. In diversity there is some actual strength.
However I thought of an alternative approach that's even better than my initial idea of government speculation. Just lean on the private Chinese speculators who have been accumulating cryptocurrencies. No actual investment required by the Chinese government, just a bit of ingenuity in criminalizing a couple of aspects of the speculation. Once they've done that, they w
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To utterly devastate entirety of crypto "ecosystem", you merely need to disrupt bitcoin. This is because almost all real money crypto transactions for crypto that isn't bitcoin is "convert to your randomcoin into bitcoin, convert bitcoin to desired real currency". Same applies in reverse. And as a result, almost all major non-bitcoin cryptos generally follow bitcoin's trends in pricing against real currency.
Remove bitcoin, and the entire system breaks down at least for a while. And Chinese bitcoin miners a
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I certainly agree that a big hit on Bitcoin would disrupt all of the cryptocurrencies substantially, but I think that's still comparable to the fiascos when major cryptocurrency exchanges have gone down, whether via incompetence, theft, or other attack. It's really hard to figure out the losses because the portion of the "value" measured in cryptocurrencies was imaginary and speculative from the git go. Even the relatively real money, usually American dollars, that was brought into the speculation machine m
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I don't think you quite grasp just how massive the "moving out" process of wealth from China has been over last decade or so. And that didn't just include the wealth. Children of familes often went out as a part of the process to anchor the family to a foreign nation. Especially places like Canada, Australia and US got hit by this extremely hard.
The mechanism has been pretty well ironed out. Wealthy family with good CCP connections gets lucrative deals back home, and wants to move some of the wealth to be s
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I think you're relying too much on anecdotal evidence. No Chinese monopoly on rich crooks. Even innovative rich crooks. Yeah, there are some people like that in China, too, but even those people have vulnerabilities and weaknesses that the Chinese government can use against them. Not many people are really willing to and capable of cutting all of their links to their personal histories and native lands. (Also skeptical that you've ever lived in a foreign country, but my evidence on that side would be mostly
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You seem to think that this anecdote is all I have. Have you looked at the amount of direct investment in China and out of China and what happened to it over last two decades?
Because you should if you think I'm wrong, or even hyperbolic.
As for "but we do it too", no, we actually don't. Because these aren't "crooks" that are setting this up. They're Chinese elites. Granted, if you're a nutjob far leftist, you probably think those are one and same. For everyone else, they're not. Crooks are the ones currently
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I have looked at a lot of data, both for China and for the world, and either you are deluding yourself or most of my sources are wrong. I have seen NO sources that seem to support your position strongly. Therefore I now believe you must be harvesting sources that agree with what you want to believe, which also explains your lack of citations. (I doubt that can be true in my own case, at least regards China, because I still can't figure out what I believe about China and I keep going back and forth on largel
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If you looked at more data on China than me, kudos. But honestly, if anything geopolitical (rather than cultural) in Asia's Cauldron came as significantly new to you, you're not going to be in that category. That's a book for American laymen who read a lot of US media talk about South China Sea and are interested in understanding the fundamentals of that specific region.
It needs to be restated that for China, SCC is not the goal. It's merely means to begin securing the actual goal. Gaining capability of pie
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While I agree with your assessment of the book, I still value other people's opinions. Your chronic rudeness says you don't. But that's why I'd already decided you weren't worth my time and why I didn't read the rest of your comment.
I repeat my request. "Let's ignore each other together." Thanks in advance.
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To what end? I mean, if it's to discredit the cryptocurrency, then the unmanipulated version is already way ahead of them on the crashing and having constant hyperinflation/hyperdeflation front.
To what end? I don't know, but if someone somewhere could benefit by it, then they're likely looking to cash in. Maybe they want to crash it and buy on the dip, maybe they just want to rattle the markets. Maybe they want a monopoly, maybe they see it as competition. Maybe all of those, who knows?
But they have a reason for doing it and in the end, it'll probably boil down to money and/or power- two of the oldest motivations to exist.
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That's like saying that maybe bath salts are good for you after all because the dealer won't do them himself.
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You're right. I guess I won't play with cryptocurrencies after all.
(But I do think you understand the earlier question was a kind of rhetorical joke.)
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The main and pretty much the only meaningful reason why CCP is looking to ban cryptocurrency has nothing to do with "economies of other countries" or "shock isolation".
To understand the actual reason, one needs to understand some of the fundamentals of economy of modern PRC. Current Chinese development model is based on creating large sums of money, and force feeding it into the economy. It's basically Evergrande model on country-wide scale, in almost everything. It's why China's debt rate is as insane as i
Re: So what this means is... (Score:2)
Thanks. Wish i had mod points.
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Well, I partly agree with this analysis, but I don't really think it is so special or unique to China. All governments are going to try to defend their own currencies. As it applies in this situation, you would seem to be implying that the Chinese might be unusual in regarding cryptocurrencies as more of a threat than the threats perceived by other countries.
I think you are also implying (though you didn't state it explicitly) that the Chinese government doesn't want any interference. Again, that's how most
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This is not about defending a currency in the same sense that Western nations do, because Western nations float their currency.
China doesn't. It tried, and it found that this is impossible to do while keeping their economy running, specifically because of the unique way they set up the state economy.
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I don't think it's "impossible" for them, but more like "disadvantageous" and the Chinese are determined to bend any rule they can, especially when there aren't any clear and enforceable rules and other nations are also playing various games to "defend" their own currencies. Or you could say that the Chinese prefer to play an old game?
I actually think the biggest financial risk these days is from "quantitative easing", though I have to be the first to admit that I have no real idea what it is and just think
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"But we do it too" argument doesn't work here. Because Chinese have been doing entire "quantitative easing" Lehman Brother level of injection of money into their economy... every few months for last two decades or so.
Look up debt numbers sometime. It's genuinely hilarious how when you graph currently worst debt to GDP ratios one by one, US and many EU countries can be sorta kinda graphed in the same scale of the graph over last two to five decades if you cut out PIIGS. Those graph more into Turkey and Brazi
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NAK
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If it's because of the chinese troll spam, his links literally dismiss the fact that Chinese state banks are excluded from state debt.
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I have concluded you are not worth talking to. Congratulations. Think of all the precious time you'll save.
I will thank you to ignore my comments and I will probably be able to remember your handle well enough to reciprocate. If your memory is as flawed as your social skills, perhaps you should designate me as an official foe to help you remember.
"I ain't talking to you. I see plenty of other people here."
Destroys the 'immune from govt meddling' argument (Score:5, Insightful)
That first one in particular pretty much seals the deal. If the internet can be controlled by a nation (which has been established for a long time now), so can anything you do on it in their borders. And currency is kinda something governments are just a wee bit interested in keeping control over.
This was always only a matter of time. I'm honestly surprised it took so long.
Re:Destroys the 'immune from govt meddling' argume (Score:5, Insightful)
This was always only a matter of time. I'm honestly surprised it took so long.
Me too. From the moment Bitcoin became a thing, I've been predicting that governments will ban it. Not on any lofty principles, mind you. Not to "protect the public from fraud", or fear over criminal activity, or electricity-use concerns. Nope. Simply because governments don't give up power willingly, nor let others gain power without a fight. And the kind of freedom that crypto users dream about is simply too threatening to places like Washington DC, London, Brussels, and Beijing.
As you said, it was only a matter of time. The only question is what excuse will each individual government use when they ban crypto in their country? My bet is the US finally does it on the basis of "criminals and terrorists could use it".
Re:Destroys the 'immune from govt meddling' argume (Score:5, Insightful)
The "lofty principles" are good enough on their own. Cryptocurrency has brought us the age of ransomware for one thing, the average Joe on the street and most everyone else who isn't a frothing libertarian and/or a career criminal would gladly see the back of it for that reason alone.
Add in the astronomical energy waste, sanctions evasion, and general usefulness to criminals, and we're right back to wondering why governments didn't instantly squash cryptocurrency exchanges with extreme prejudice like all preceding Internet funny-money schemes in the first place again.
Re: Destroys the 'immune from govt meddling' argum (Score:2)
Cryptocurrency has brought us the age of ransomware for one thing, the average Joe on the street and most everyone else who isn't a frothing libertarian and/or a career criminal would gladly see the back of it for that reason alone.
Exactly what I have been saying for over two years!
In fact, this is the only time I can remember where I wholeheartedly agree with China on anything.
Any specious "benefits" of Cryptocurrency are handily buried under a mountain of truly criminal activity.
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Rather a provocative post, but you're mixing up a number of aspects. But I'm going to focus on two that struck me.
Not really fair to blame cryptocurrency for ransomware. The criminals would accept any fungible form of hard-to-trace payment, and it's just that cryptocurrencies seem to be the most convenient and most fungible alternatives just now. However it is interesting that encryption is the underlying technology of the crime (as usually committed) and of the cryptocurrencies.
And the energy waste is not
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Not really fair to blame cryptocurrency for ransomware. The criminals would accept any fungible form of hard-to-trace payment, and it's just that cryptocurrencies seem to be the most convenient and most fungible alternatives just now. However it is interesting that encryption is the underlying technology of the crime (as usually committed) and of the cryptocurrencies.
It is fair because it has so far been the only practical option. Ransomware was impractical with the previous-best system of WU and money mules (or the once-attempted cash-in-the-mail option), cryptocurrency made it practical.
And the energy waste is not intrinsic to cryptocurrency, but is most famous in the specific scam known as Bitcoin.
It is intrinsic to all cryptocurrencies based on a proof-of-work system, just as much energy could and would be wasted mining any other proof-of-work cryptocurrency regardless of the watt-hour to buttcoin payback ratio. The alternative is proof-of-stake, which bakes "the rich get riche
Re: Destroys the 'immune from govt meddling' argum (Score:2)
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Instead, we allow banks to issue credit for money they don't have. That's why checking and savings accounts pay shit interest these days, they don't need it.
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This was always only a matter of time. I'm honestly surprised it took so long.
My bet is the US finally does it on the basis of "criminals and terrorists could use it".
That's the trouble with our system here in the USA, we have trouble managing tradeoffs so nothing gets done..
We don't want terrorists to get financing, but OTOH, we don't want anyone interfering with our criminal activities.
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Maybe terrorists in the US. But here in the UK, the pretext will be pedophiles. That's our bogeyman of choice.
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All governments want control over their money supply. They do not want Igor printing his own currency, or fake real currency, because that invites a whole host of issues, not the least of which is devaluation of their currency.
If you don't think this is an issue, you need to go back and read your history about what happened under the Articles of Confederation. Each state had its own currency and w
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We routinely let banks loan out money they don't have. They just POOF it into existence.
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Routinely? It's the core of our financial systems!
We magic money into existence all of the time. Banks do 99% of it, but anyone able to invest in anything can too.
I can buy a lot for $50k, spend $150k to build a house on the lot, and it can IMMEDIATELY be appraised for $300k!! Where did that $100k come from? Thin. Fucking. Air. If someone buys it and pays me, that's $100k that didn't exist before I did that work, which to be clear, has already been paid for!
Then the bank can offer someone a loan for that $3
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Bad guess. I would like the Feds to do the POOFing and distribute it to the bottom of the pyramid or at least not let the banks have it for free while demanding interest on it at the same time.
Re:Destroys the 'immune from govt meddling' argume (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly this whole "government power" on currency is overblown. Governments do NOT have a lot of power over their currencies. They technically do, but any real use of it results in the currency being rejected by all the other players in the game. Govermnments are more like the bank in a Monopoly game; if they act like a player, the other players leave or start a separate game.
For example, Cambodia, Colombia, & Zimbabwe have effectively more control over their currencies than the US, China, or India does theirs. Contrary to popular belief, even Germany & EU have less control over the Euro than the latter three.
Because the minute any country takes advantage of their currency, all the parties they trade with devalue that currency to mitigate the loss of what that country is taking from them. And historically the parties were few and relationships simple. Like Canada, Japan, & UK were big mitigators of the US; and vice-verse. Now in a heavily connected world where the nuts are made in one country, sheet metal in another, packaging in another, etc etc... its an interconnected web of relationships where everyone is happy to cut the threads to that one spider that is looking too greedy.
If governments had a lot of power and could freely use it without reprecussions... a lot of economic problems would not exist. Japan for example can easily halt their deflationary spiral by simply printing lots of monies... but they don't. If they were isolated from the rest of the world, they would have long ago. Many Muslims don't believe in interest, and thats a problem when inflation is partially in the control of other parties. Such nations could easily deflat their currencies to compensate for external inflationary pressures... but they don't because it makes things worse.
Countries have wiggle room, this is true, but they are still tied to the chair they built.
Re: Destroys the 'immune from govt meddling' argum (Score:2)
Have you been to Cambodia ? I have. Everyone uses uses US dollars over there.
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Have you been to Cambodia ? I have. Everyone uses uses US dollars over there.
I've been there many times and you're correct- the US dollar is the de facto currency, and that's what you see people using everywhere. The only reason I take any riels at all is for change since they don't have any coins.
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Have you been to Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Turkey, Argentina, Weimar Germany...?
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"Give me control of a nation's currency print/supply, and I care not who makes its laws" --Rothschild (b. 1744) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Because only criminals - and that includes tax cheats (maybe including you) - and terrorists use it.
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The only question is what excuse will each individual government use when they ban crypto in their country? My bet is the US finally does it on the basis of "criminals and terrorists could use it".
No.
They will use the reason that criminals and terrorists are using it, and pretty much exclusively, to facilitate nearly every single Ransomware attack on the planet.
Ransomware and Cryptocurrency are inextricably and irrefutably linked together. Eliminate Cryptocurrency, and you will virtually eliminate Ransomware, virtually overnight.
Simple as that.
"If they want those freedoms" (Score:5, Insightful)
And the kind of freedom that crypto users dream about is simply too threatening to places like Washington DC, London, Brussels, and Beijing.
Those people should just move to cold hard cash if they want those freedoms.
Except that many of those same authority figures want to phase cash out as well for precisely the same reason: too much freedom from oversight. Now we have the US government wanting to see every transaction our banks make above $600.
It's not about "safety". It's about power.
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I may need some technical help here. I want to send $10 to a seller over the net. What slot on my computer do I slip the bill into to make that happen? It's kind of floppy, do I need one of those old-fashioned floppy drives?
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I may need some technical help here. I want to send $10 to a seller over the net. What slot on my computer do I slip the bill into to make that happen? It's kind of floppy, do I need one of those old-fashioned floppy drives?
Just use a scanner or take a picture of the $10 with your phone.
Add the pic as an email attachment.
Send.
Just be sure to burn the original $10.
You wouldn't want to get in trouble for 'accidentally' spending the same $10 twice...
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Cryptocurriencies are a way to turn local electricity paid for in local currency into global currency and that is something that China keeps a vise-like grip on.
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If the internet can be controlled by a nation (which has been established for a long time now), so can anything you do on it in their borders.
"Immune from government meddling" does Not mean government is incapable of writing some draconian restriction or banning businesses from using it or imposing some onerous regulation making it too burdensome to deal in.
People probably overstated it by calling it "Immune", when it's really just Resistant to various actors tampering with it, government or otherwise,
The moment I realized how easy it is to manipulate (Score:2)
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If I'm easily 11 billion injection can crash your currency you've got problems
Well - it's not 11 billion dollars; it's 1 Million Bitcoins Satoshi has or 100000 Billion Satoshis.. that is about 5% of the coins in existence. However; only a small fraction of the coins actually in existence are actually circulating and many have been lost, thus if someone were to successfully collect this many and dump it on the exchanges all at once.. that would significantly reduce the scarcity of each unit.
They wou
Nothing but good for crypto (Score:2)
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Re:Nothing but good for crypto (Score:5, Interesting)
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I eagerly await the day when the crypto crowd finds something that *isn't* good news for crypto. Incredibly volatile -> good for crypto! Been stable for a bit -> good for crypto! Loses half it's value -> good for crypto! Popular in China -> good for crypto! Banned in China -> good for crypto! Pushes your grandma in front of a train and kicks your dog -> good for crypto!
You need to be at +5 informative.
Seriously though, of course there are entities that have to push crypto hard, and always claim everything is da schitz.
But claiming that a Chinese ban is good for it? This might be the start of the end for crypto currency. Perhaps other countries will join in now,
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This might be the start of the end for crypto currency. Perhaps other countries will join in now,
I can't believe I am agreeing with China on this; but one can only hope!
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Hardly. China has a gluttonous and extremely dirty power infrastructure that people were blaming on the neutral consumer. Depending on how China handles the miners and mining operations the consumer either relocates to a cleaner location undermining the misleading stats used to attack Bitcoin and crypto or their demand disappears which will reduce difficulty and
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The key is the advocates for a thing, like crypto or gold, are the ones already holding plenty of it. Increasing demand drives up value, let's them convert to a currency to lock in their gains, and screw over whoever was stupid enough to listen to them.
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Of course they do. When gold is going up they want to make sure it keeps going up and that there are buyers when they think it has peaked. When gold is going down they want to buy back in and cement the profit.
"Increasing demand drives up value, let's them convert to a currency to lock in their gains"
Why wouldn't they just spend the currency they have? The reason they are holding crypto and gold is
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Ok, the last one got a hearty chuckle out of me. Well done sir. Thank you for making me laugh.
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The established banking system wanting to retain their greedy grubby grips not on money but on the fountain of all new money have been doing their best hit attacks on crypto via China. If you want to make it look like a carbon neutral technology that uses less energy than the industry it replaces is bad for the earth? Since the opportunity is open to all and good for the poo
It has to happen (Score:5, Insightful)
The crypto fans imagine a world free of government regulation, believe all taxes are theft, believe the only thing governments do is oppress its citizens. These clueless idiots get a rude shock when they meet reality. They can't even live together in peace and harmony in a stupid cruise ship with fellow libertarians. [theguardian.com]. What? My Libertarian Paradise is going to come weigh my pet and tax me if it is over 20 lb? I escaped intrusive government asking me to submit a tax return once a year for this???
These lunatics are very vocal and provide a vague justification for crypto transaction, while everyone on the street knows cryptos are for buying drugs, paying for hookers, and occasionally to put out a contract on a spouse or a business partner. And money laundering is the biggest real use for it. Speculators come in, some knowing where crypto is used in real life and some not knowing, neither care for anything. They just believe in The Greater Fool theory. Yeah, it is insane to pay this much for this thing. But there is going to be someone even more crazy than me. I will sell and get out. As long as I am not the craziest person in the whole world, I am good. They fail to realize people even more insane are targeted by multiple scams, and while their willingness to buy this crazy shit still exists, their bank account might not.
Government does more than merely oppress its citizen for the pure delight of oppressing them. Government, by its mere existence, protects property rights and the ability to earn. Without a government, powerful enough to enforce contracts, enforce property rights, paid for by actual tax payers, all currencies are worthless crypto or fiat. If Governments declare crypto is anonymous, and so it is cash, it will devalue it tremendously. Crypto is simply a brief case stuffed with dollar bills. Unless you can prove the provenance of the cash, it is not going to be useful for "white money" economy. Condemned forever to black money economy, libertarian fools will leave and stop providing the fig leaf of legal use. Governments will restrict it more and drive speculators out. With only criminals using crypto, government will thwart it even more. This is likely to be the arc of crypto.
Re:It has to happen (Score:4, Insightful)
Remember when the US government declared linking to DeCSS code illegal and every comment here was said code? Pepperidge Farm remembers. How times change, the information wants to be free line was touted a lot.
Actual rich people launder money through art transactions but small time crooks doing it crosses the line. The only hit ever taken out for crypto was the Silk Road guy and it’s how he was busted.
Crypto markets are valued in the trillions (Score:2)
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They will kill crypto. Government exists to do their bidding.
Sorry I wasn't clear (Score:2)
I know it's tempting to try and make your own economy with blackjack and hoo
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So obviously, killing a business partner shouldn't be a crime. What's the other one?
Re: It has to happen (Score:2)
Killing a spouse obviously
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Government does more than merely oppress its citizen for the pure delight of oppressing them. Government, by its mere existence, protects property rights and the ability to earn. Without a government, powerful enough to enforce contracts, enforce property rights, paid for by actual tax payers, all currencies are worthless crypto or fiat.
This, this, a thousand times THIS!
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The crypto that scales well is "proof of stake" crypto where the payments can not be tracked and is totally anonymous. That is same as cash. Govt will ban, all governments, sooner or late
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Try depositing 10,000$ in cash in any bank.
Hongkong and Shanghai Bank probably will ask less questions than your local First National Bank of Nowhere County, Some State USA. Who is living under a tyrannical govt, pray tell.
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Its the few vocal strident libertarian shills that is preventing the Government from acting decisively. SCOTUS has ruled that a technology that has any legal use should not be prohibited because it can also be used for illegal purposes. Quite sensible decision most of the time. That is why VCRs existed. That is why lock picking tools are legal to be sold.
If go
Good! (Score:3, Insightful)
It was about time!
Now everyone else has a precedent to justify the same movement.
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I’m sure it works as well as stopping copyright infringement.
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I’m sure it works as well as stopping copyright infringement.
Copyright infringement doesn't impact a government's major source of political, economic, diplomatic and military power, at most it impacts a few major corporations with friends in governments to the tune of a few percentage points of their gross profit. Therefore those governments put a tiny amount of resources into combating copyright infringement to appease their business friends, but that's about it. That's why it's still pretty easy to get away with infringing copyrights: it just isn't worth it for gov
Good (Score:2)
This should free up a few GPUs... (Score:2)
This should free up a few GPUs... ...that will probably just move to mining rigs outside China.
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Expected wealth goes poof? (Score:3)
And how many people just went from thinking they were quite wealthy to being totally broke? What impact will that have?
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> they cannot move
On-chain moves is not something china is going to be able to stop, or even punish. What's china trying to stop here is the capital flight via RMB->BTC->USD, and they can control the RMB end for sure.
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Applies to Chinese Citizens worldwide (Score:2, Interesting)
China is just like the US in that it imposes its laws upon its citizens wherever they happen to be. So, even if Chinese citizens leave the country, they will be black-bagged by Chinese police on contact.
Let me guess, (Score:2)
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America is freedom (Score:2)
And money laundering is free speech.
China manipulating markets for profit (Score:2)
I can't see how this is anything else other than China manipulating the markets by making big statements to they can siphon off money from all the Greater Fools overseas. There is almost no way I can't believe that China don't have a room full of cryptoasset nerds somewhere that are are making bank for the party.
Tomorrow they might relax the rules so there's a bump in price and they can sell everything they bought from causing the dip. Then the next day there'll be a new set of rules.
China is trying to buy Bitcoin cheap (Score:2)
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If a currency is that volatile, then it isn't for me - what is swaps? Do mean exchange? What happens if my cryptocoins are worth say 100 and by the time I go to buy something for 90 is it now worth 80... Whoops declined.
The former guy? Who was that again? (Score:2)
If you must feed the troll, can't you at least change the Subject? I think some of the trolls are motivated by propagating BS Subjects.
(However a minor technical question comes to mind. If a logged in poster uses the AC option, then is he notified of any replies? Or would he have to go back and search to see if his trollish Subject is propagating?)
The former guy was a pimp (Score:2)
Hey, I can create a BS subject as well as any troll.
Actually, it was the former guy's grandfather who made the family fortune. The interesting link to this story is that the bordello Grandpa ran was servicing the gold miners of the day. They even had scales in the rooms so the customers could pay in gold dust. The family wealth is based on the profits. Lots of money to be made from the gold miners without the struggles and gambles of finding the gold. Just sell goods or "services" to the winners. We can squ