I think we're past 'conspiracy theory', but the propagandists are clinging to 'right wing talking point' because various cultural divides have been cultivated for years (for interesting and depressing reasons) and are bearing fruit here as a distraction from the truth, which I believe you nailed.

You're going with the Russian agent BS narrative?

He's not an anti vaxxer. His support is coming from across the board, including his fundraising. Are you even a United States citizen?

Indeed, agree.

Ah, OK, that helps me understand this dialogue. Thank you.

You seem like an angry person to me, perhaps I'm wrong and it's the natural bravado of anonymous speech. In any case, I hope you are well and find peace and joy in your life. You don't know whether or not I'm vaccinated. And, I frankly don't believe you if you are saying that being vaccinated prevents transmission in communities to a level that is meaningfully higher than being non-vaccinated.

I don't think the anger is called for, and really doesn't impact me at all (if you care)

Yes, I see that sentence in the provided publication. Funny thing is, no footnoted citation(s) for it. Where are these 'many studies'? To me, that one statement deserves a *whole* bunch of citations, it shouldn't be allowed to slip by - why was it?

I don't think I'm deflecting.

Look, it boils down to this.. unless there is a good reason, I don't want to take a vaccine. Are you asking me to take a vaccine? If not, we're done here, have a joyful day.

If yes, then you need to tell me why I should want to (before I will take it). If one of the reasons you tell me is that by taking the vaccine I am helping my community by slowing or stopping the spread of Covid, you are telling me a lie. This is what happened, until relatively recently. Will you please find me any credible support of an argument that taking the vaccine stops or slows spread of Covid in my community? If I'm wrong, I will gladly 180 - I'm community-minded.

OK, I understand about language and accuracy. How about this? If I don't take the vaccine, am I contributing to the spread of Covid? The answer from public health authorities was 'definitely yes', when it wasn't definite at all, and then turned out to be false.

Actually, no. If a medical provider ask a question to the patient: 'do you want to take an available vaccine?', the patient may/should ask 'why should I want to?'. Then, the medical provider should lay out all available and accurate current information which should lead to an informed choice by a patient (in the United States it's called 'informed consent', I'm not sure if that's a universal concept).

In the case of Covid, certain crucial information that was given to the patient was inaccurate, it was false. The information given was that if you take the vaccine, the virus finds a 'dead-end' in your body, and you will not transmit it. That information was given without basis, and worse, it was presented as having scientific basis (which didn't exist).

Thanks for engaging. My country is the United States, in case you want to look up the various government and corporate interventions that were centered around coercing people to get vaccinated.

As far as data goes, it sort of speaks to my point. It's not on me to provide data to show that the available vaccines are efficacious in terms of stopping or slowing the spread of Covid-19. It's on you (figuratively) when making a case for whether (*or not*) to take the vaccine. What happened (here) was many many many (yes, it deserves at least three) people in authority spread by various communication channels the message that if you don't get the vaccine, you are hurting your community by contributing to the spread - they said this without evidence. People who questioned the vaccine were called selfish, conspiracy theorists, and racists, among other slander.

Now we know that efficacy against transmission was never even included in initial testing before release, and subsequent studies have also been unable to establish the fact. And, more than a year later, the CDC *finally* admitted so, only after they were brought before congress to be questioned under oath. And, a case can be made that this only happened because the opposite political party from the executive branch assumed control of one house of congress.

Stipulating that most vaccines do not provide 100% immunity, I don't think that's relevant. The fact is that the available vaccines do basically nothing to stop the spread of Covid. We were led to believe (ie lied to) about their efficacy in this regard, and public policy was created and enforced based on the falsity. The enforcement was tyrannical, and still hangs on to this day (eg some universities still require students to be vaccinated).

Please search for the word 'transmission' in the citation you provided (I believe there are ~40 instances). Please read every sentence where the word 'transmission' exists. Pay very close attention to the language, which sentence or sentences unequivocally says that vaccines help prevent transmission? You may notice words like 'potentially', and 'possibly'.

Please follow up if you find a concise statement asserting that vaccines actually reduce transmission.

I agree with everything your well-written reply says, with a slight disagreement here. By saying 'unless you were wearing a N95 type mask' I believe you are implying that N95-type mask does provide meaningful protection against becoming infected and transmitting Covid. By my understanding there is no real evidence of this, even if you wear one 'correctly'. If you have access to data or studies that I haven't seen on this, I'd love to see it.