Amazon, Walmart Are Telling Some Consumers to Skip Returns of Unwanted Items (morningstar.com) 89
Amazon, Walmart, and other companies are using artificial intelligence "to decide whether it makes economic sense to process a return," reports the Wall Street Journal:
For inexpensive items or large ones that would incur hefty shipping fees, it is often cheaper to refund the purchase price and let customers keep the products.
The relatively new approach, popularized by Amazon and a few other chains, is being adopted more broadly during the Covid-19 pandemic, as a surge in online shopping forces companies to rethink how they handle returns. "We are getting so many inquiries about this that you will see it take off in coming months," said Amit Sharma, chief executive of Narvar Inc., which processes returns for retailers...
A Target Corp. spokeswoman said the retailer gives customers refunds and encourages them to donate or keep the item in a small number of cases in which the company deems that option is easier than returning the purchase.
A Walmart spokeswoman said the "keep it" option is designed for merchandise it doesn't plan to resell and is determined by customers' purchase history, the value of the products and the cost of processing the returns...
Processing online returns can cost $10 to $20, excluding freight, depending on the item, said Rick Faulk, chief executive of Locus Robotics, which uses robots to help automate returns.
The relatively new approach, popularized by Amazon and a few other chains, is being adopted more broadly during the Covid-19 pandemic, as a surge in online shopping forces companies to rethink how they handle returns. "We are getting so many inquiries about this that you will see it take off in coming months," said Amit Sharma, chief executive of Narvar Inc., which processes returns for retailers...
A Target Corp. spokeswoman said the retailer gives customers refunds and encourages them to donate or keep the item in a small number of cases in which the company deems that option is easier than returning the purchase.
A Walmart spokeswoman said the "keep it" option is designed for merchandise it doesn't plan to resell and is determined by customers' purchase history, the value of the products and the cost of processing the returns...
Processing online returns can cost $10 to $20, excluding freight, depending on the item, said Rick Faulk, chief executive of Locus Robotics, which uses robots to help automate returns.
Skip returns, pay twice (Score:3)
Since more and more people buy things just "to try them", with no real intention of really keeping them but returning, we will end up paying twice the price of the actual product. More so if the stores themselves support this behavior by letting you keep the product you did not pay for.
Re: (Score:3)
Since more and more people buy things just "to try them", with no real intention of really keeping them but returning, we will end up paying twice the price of the actual product. More so if the stores themselves support this behavior by letting you keep the product you did not pay for.
Alternatively, some people will pay twice or even more, while others will continue to get good prices. They can profile every customer now and they are just improving those capabilities.
Re: Skip returns, pay twice (Score:4, Interesting)
You just described the chinese dystopian social credit system. I am not comfortable with a Corporatocracy that colludes and shares data between each other. One such corporation has already attempted to start their own grocery store while another already has been a superstore since the 90s. What happens when you unexplainably het put on a list denying you food or vastly inflating food prices because you posted an unfavorable crticism online? What happens when they buy out all the mom-and-pops? I dont think allowing sanctioned discrimination at the hands of corporations to wage economic warfare on anyone they dont like is an acceptable measure.
Re: (Score:2)
What makes you think "comfort level" is a metric?
Re: Skip returns, pay twice (Score:2)
Its my impression someone just advocated for that as a solution. Rights are usually never stolen, people are fucking duped into surrendering them forever. This seemed like someone becoming a dupe. Im hoping to illustrate how that could be played out to an unfavorable conclusion. Short sightedness will be our downfall. Nobody looks further ahead more than 5yrs anymore.
Re: (Score:2)
...Short sightedness will be our downfall. Nobody looks further ahead more than 5yrs anymore.
I came here to say this, but for an entirely different reason. I agree that the possible social and political implications down the road are highly disturbing. But I think the question of whether we and our descendants will have a habitable Earth on which to continue such discussions, should be a higher priority.
We are removing non-renewable resources from the ground and putting them into landfill in forms from which we may never be able to recover them. In the process we are filling our bodies with damagin
Re: (Score:2)
Experiments have shown that you can retrieve exactly the same energy from burning plastic, as you can from burning the amount of oil used to create the plastic.
I do not know why we would NOT be mining junkyards, other than the fact that currently, resource extraction from junkyards is significantly more expensive than fossil fuels. That may one day change. Microplastics in the ocean can be gathered with a very simple filter, which would also harvest biomass- which can also be burned for energy- so that's
Re: Skip returns, pay twice (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Eventually the last two sets of species on any given planet will fall into four categories: Apex, food, energy, helper.
If we're going to return fish to the food category, we're going to have to first use them and all the microplastic in the ocean as energy.
It's far to late for just making regulations on new plastic stronger, we've got to clean up the mess we made as well, and do so in a profitable way. You can always (and should) add afterburner turbines to the exhaust to get every bit of energy possible
Re: (Score:2)
Eventually the last two sets of species on any given planet will fall into four categories: Apex, food, energy, helper.
You are overlooking one additional class we are all most likely to go into if things continue as they are going at the moment: "dead".
Re: (Score:2)
You're right- extinct.
But it's the job of the apex species to decide who, or what, goes extinct.
Re: (Score:2)
It is. I do not like very much what the current decision seems to be though.
Re: (Score:2)
If you mean me, I did not advocate for it. I just pointed out a very likely consequence. I am not in favor of this approach.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
We're talking about software algorithms, and they don't usually do qualitative very well.
No human is making these decisions.
In addition to that, by federal law these companies are forbidden from using qualitative. Doing so will cause your shareholders to sue you. Can't wait to see the shareholder backlash of little old conservative people suing Twitter and facebook
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed. As soon as alternatives vanish or become scarce, this becomes an extreme problem. It may become a pretty bad problem even before that.
Re: (Score:2)
You mean like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re: Skip returns, pay twice (Score:2)
Well it's either skip returns and take note of people abusing the system, or stick with the old way.
A business like these have shareholders to answer to and they have to protect themselves.
Maybe you have a better option in mind?
Re: (Score:2)
well it only happened to me once. I was ordering an adapter for my phone that would do IR to make it a universal remote. Long story short, I have found a few hotels with HDMI ports but they put this nerfed-ass remote in there to deliberately prevent you from changing the input. Why should they fucking care if I brought my own roku stick? So I found one that came in USB-C, MicroUSB, and Lightening. I ordered the lightening for like $8 and sure enough the fuckers sent a USB-C one. The fault clearly was with
Re:Skip returns, pay twice (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Skip returns, pay twice (Score:5, Insightful)
How about making it harder to return? Enough of this slave labor consumerism planet-killing hedonism. If the item is broken, forward all the expenses to manufacturer. If it's not broken, forward it all to consumer.
Life is always too easy for the other guy.
It’s always the other guy that uses too much healthcare.
The other guy is always hogging all the bandwidth.
The other guy buys too much stuff, enough of his planet-killing consumerism.
I hate the other guy for not being me.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Since more and more people buy things just "to try them", with no real intention of really keeping them
Mind if I asking you know what people’s intentions are, as well as the overall net change of said intentions?
we will end up paying twice the price of the actual product.
If the market will support the item at twice the price, it’ll likely increase in price regardless of what those evil “other people that aren’t you” do. If it won’t support twice the price, then it won
Re:Skip returns, pay twice (Score:4, Interesting)
Since more and more people buy things just "to try them", with no real intention of really keeping them
Mind if I asking you know what people’s intentions are, as well as the overall net change of said intentions?
TBH, I've met plenty of "those" people before. The kind that have spent more time in a return line that most people have spent around a dinner table, bending and warping the shit out of return policies, and zero-to-Karen in less than 2.5 seconds if you don't oblige. Spoiled and entitled who assume the world is a service industry that revolves around their every mind change.
As far as the future goes, greedy people wanting shit for free, is about as hard to predict as gravity. Suppliers will use consumer history to try and thwart the perpetual abusers gaming no-return policies, but it likely won't work. Cue the Amazon/Wal-mart purchase proxy scripts that make every customer look like a "new" one you must appease.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: Skip returns, pay twice (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Indeed, because the alternative was probably said used condoms getting thrown in the AC's wife's face. Kudos to the senior person.
Re: (Score:2)
Welcome to the USA.
Meanwhile, at the Kremlin-Mart, a man drunk on Vodka tries to return a grizzly bear he claims he bought on isle 2 last month during the Christmas rush.
(No, this story isn't real, but admit it, you were really looking for a hyperlink here. Welcome, to Earth.)
Re: (Score:3)
When I do this, Goodwill is a nice universal return department. They even let you value your own donation, the biggest loophole available to everybody in the tax system.
Re: (Score:2)
When I do this, Goodwill is a nice universal return department. They even let you value your own donation, the biggest loophole available to everybody in the tax system.
The standard Federal tax deduction for an individual is $10K. Families are over $20K.
Unless people are buying $50K worth of clothing every year, I fail to see how that's a valid loophole for most. I can't even remember when my Goodwill donations (~$1K/year) showed up on my taxes in any relevant form.
And if people are donating a 2003 rust bucket and "valuing" it at $15K, that will be more of a shortcut. To an IRS audit.
Amazon return rates 10%-40% (Score:3)
Amazon tracks a seller's return rate and may take action if the rate is too high for their category. Competent Amazon sellers pay attention to return rate before Amazon takes action, of course.
This is one of many topics discussed in sites for Amazon sellers. Here are typical return rates from one such site to give Slashdot readers a sense of it.
Products like books and media: 5-7%
Home, kitchen, and garden, and sports and outdoors: 8-10%
Consumer electronics: 25-35%
Clothing and fine jewelry: up to 40%
Re: (Score:2)
Whoa, thanks for this. In my previous company we were struggling to reach a 1% return rate on ink cartridges (the compatible kind), now I understand better how far-fetched that goal was... 25% to 35%??? Wow. Screw you management for giving us unreachable objectives.
This said, our aftersales department had already been doing the "skip return" thing for a long time. When the products are cheap, it makes no sense to collect them back, unless you have a suspicion of fraud or are in a situation where a risk of l
Re:Skip returns, pay twice (Score:4, Informative)
What you missed from the OP, is the fact that your purchase and return history factors into this decision. Your return to purchase ration is high, chances are they will ask you to send it back even if it costs them money, simply to deter this kind of abuse. So, those who buy to try and return often, will probably be always asked to send stuff back.
This may be new in wider application, but Amazon and others have been doing this for years. Every once in a while, I was told "just keep it or donate it if you can please" or on one occasion "would you mind just disposing of it for us, we're shipping you a new one right away" (the latter was when after I sent pictures of the item which arrived mangled, and it was a large and heavy package - a metal rack-server case. Service was very good so I didn't bother pressing for an additional credit for disposing of it, recycled it with some other gear I was recycling already).
Re:Skip returns, pay twice (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a reason you can get online and bid to buy a CRATE full of random stuff from Amazon... almost none of the things you return to Amazon are resold are refurbished - most of it goes into those random crates for pennies on the dollar. I'd bet they barely recoup shipping and processing costs on those crates. (if at all? would like to see someone with some numbers)
When they start saying "never mind, just keep it and we'll refund you" is the day it opens the floodgates to abuse. I'm certain the number of people that want a free product is greater than the number of people that want to return something either due to "buyer's remorse" or "wanted to use it a little for free".
Sadly I know several people that don't own any power tools - if they need a circular saw for an afternoon they'll go to a return-friendly store and buy it, and return it the next day. Too cheap to drop $15 at rent-a-center I guess? Makes the saw more expensive when *I* go to buy it. They either don't see this, or they don't care.
I try very hard to avoid returning things. If I buy something that turns out to be the wrong thing, I'll often keep it or resell it myself. It's not the store's fault I was stupid, and I don't like forcing others to pay for my mistake. It's like insurance fraud - people don't see the harm in what they do - they think it only affects the big companies - they forget that it DOESN'T affect them in the slightest, they just factor it into their operating costs and pass the expense on to the rest of the consumers. The only time I return something is when it was clearly defective (and then I exchange it for one that works) or when it's expensive and I can return it in like-new, resellable condition.
So unsurprisingly I don't like the concept of "no questions asked returns". In the end, I'm one of the people paying for someone else's unnecessary returns.
Re: (Score:2)
When I buy something like a helmet that really needs to be tried on, I pay a bit more if I need to in order to get it from somebody with an easy return policy.
When I need a true commodity like some washers or woodscrews or something, I get them from the cheapest drop-
Re: (Score:2)
Likely the floodgates will not open wide if the "nevermind, just keep it and we'll refund you" is only offered to people who have a low return to purchase ratio, or perhaps some other limiting rules, such as a randomly chosen "return no matter what" or a limit on how many things you can keep each month or year.
There will still be people who buy a large TV from Costco before the Super Bowl weekend and return it a week or two later, but unfortunately that is the price of living in a society - there will alway
Re: (Score:2)
Yep I've seen examples of retailers being proactive about that. It's common to see places like best buy
Re:Skip returns, pay twice (Score:4)
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, this requires a good alert system tho. Amazon has it, I doubt the resellers on the marketplace have that...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Here in a country with lots of consumer protections... if I buy something "at distance" (over the phone, online etc), and I don't want it, I can return it within 14 days *without a reason*. I (probably) will have to pay return shipping, although more reputable retailers will do free returns for longer than 14 days anyway.
This is all for a very important reason: If you buy something online, how can you be absolutely certain it's the right size, or the right colour, or the right anything else? You can't (not
Counter AI? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
When will there be a counter "AI", that let's us know what items to buy so we stand the greatest chance of getting free shit if we make a claim for a return?
It will depend too much on your purchasing behavior. Also, if you use this more frequently, just expect to pay for it via your other purchases.
Re: Counter AI? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Of course not, you become rich by getting the government to give pyou shit-- like letting you run a retailing operation without paying sales tax.
And Elon Musk has done even better, with companies running on government contracts (SpaceX) and selling subsidized products ($7k per Tesla, I think).
That doesn't work (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, it likely is based on return behavior.
You already see it on some companies - Logitech (or Logi or whatever thay're called) often will do a blind warranty replacement - a device fails and they send you a new one. Especially things like mice which are cheap items and processing returns often costs more than sending out a new unit. On expensive items, they'd often request just one part of it (like on speaker systems, you need to return the processor or amplifier unit).
Items with a small pricey bit and a
List of Keepable Returns on Parler (Score:1)
Re: List of Keepable Returns on Parler (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
I just came across a list of items Amazon routinely lets people âoetrashâ instead of returning. It was posted on Parler a little over an hour ago. Let me find that link. Hmm. Hold on. Iâ(TM)m having trouble getting it. ... Snao!
I know this was said in jest, but there is something seriously fucked up when your "neighborhood" Amazon grocery-n-shit store, also maintains complete control over 3rd party web content.
Enjoy your future Amaz-car, Amaz-house, and Amaz-spouse. Feeling sad about it? Don't worry. Dr. Amazon will Amaz-drone you some Amaz-drugs in 2 hours or less! Addiction should settle in about as well as purchase pacification has.
Re: (Score:2)
"there is something seriously fucked up when your "neighborhood" Amazon grocery-n-shit store, also maintains complete control over 3rd party web content."
They only had that control because the owners of that app gave it to them. Host your own servers and this isn't an issue. Now if/when the only ISP in town can decide you don't deserve internet access (for reasons other than not paying the bill), then we can talk.
What could possibly go wrong ?? (Score:2)
What could possibly go wrong ??
Some items will be given to customers refusing them.
Now way anybody will game the system, and build a list for malicious persons of free items they can get.
No way anybody will take advantage of this and order stuff under multiple accounts everday, then simplyresell the stuff.
Refurbished condoms (Score:1)
So if they're no longer refurbishing condoms what am I going to do with all these condoms that didn't fit?
Re:Refurbished condoms (Score:5, Funny)
So if they're no longer refurbishing condoms what am I going to do with all these condoms that didn't fit?
maybe if you cut about 6 inches off them, they may fit better.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Pay careful attention to which side you use after doing this.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, they leave half of my wiener uncovered too. Magnum XL my ass.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, I like townhouses or stand-alone single-family houses better.
Disposal tax, then (Score:5, Insightful)
This sounds like Amazon should be taxed yet further to incur a 'disposal' fee for letting residents dispose of defective items, rather than reprocessing them at their own facilities.
Industrial waste is charged, this is no different than Amazon yet again trying to avoid more taxes.
Re: (Score:1)
Plus washing their hands about proper disposal of recyclable / hazardous materials
Re: (Score:2)
I bet they are giving customers options. Something like...
You don't have to return the item you don't want as a convenience to you. If you insist though, we will take it back.
Not the point (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:1)
I doubt, this is targeting blame point. The problem is pure economy - sometimes there is no monetary sense to engage in an unreasonable transaction of return.
Still, being that retailer, I would seriously consider making kind of settlement offer at a half price to keep item, before dropping it altogether. Unless such an attempt itself has little economic sense, determined practically.
What could possibly go wrong?? (Score:2)
What could possibly go wrong??
Some items will be given to customers refusing them.
Now way anybody will game the system, and build a list for malicious persons of free items they can get.
No way anybody will take advantage of this and order stuff under multiple accounts everday, then simplyresell the stuff.
Re: (Score:2)
It's not a new thing At all. I've been told to keep a number of items. It's most likely when the shipping costs are a substantial part of the total cost. My most expensive example is a radiator, but I've had it with lots of cheap little stuff ordered from China as well.
Re: (Score:2)
It's not a new thing At all. I've been told to keep a number of items. It's most likely when the shipping costs are a substantial part of the total cost. My most expensive example is a radiator, but I've had it with lots of cheap little stuff ordered from China as well.
Same here. I was told to just keep a $100 hay spear, 50" of steel, about 2" thick. The one I'd ordered had arrived slightly bent; they sent me a replacement but told me to keep the old one. I was surprised, but shipping for such an item is obviously not cheap. With some work I was able to straighten the bent spear, so I have an extra.
Better information can reduce the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
A problem that I have with online shopping is unsatisfactory product information, which have caused me to return items. Many products just have a photo or two, and a few lines of text describing it. More through product information would allow me to make much better purchasing desicions. Films, more photos, measures, manuals, clothes on serveral different models etc. Can this be a competetive advantage?
Also, providing photos of broken stuff on warranty makes it obvious that some items don't need to be returned. I have been offered refunds or new items several times without having to return stuff.
Amazon did this for me in 1998 (Score:2)
Ordered some books to Venezuela.
One of the books sent was the wrong book. I went to cutomer support.
They sent the right book and said "Is not practical for us to pay the return shipment from Venezuela, keep it or donate it"
I donated it to the library of my alma mater.
End of story
This is an old practice but5 it ebs and flows.
The real news here is that the pendulum swung back to the "keep it" side, and that they are using AI/ML to decide when to do it.
Amazon did that for me (Score:2)
Is the next step just giving away items? (Score:2)
I mean it doesn't make sense to give away items to anyone, but what about to prime members?
I'd wager some percentage of prime members seldom use their prime benefits and thus are profitable for Amazon without shopping. Why not offer them free items to encourage purchases? Or reward more frequent buyers with free stuff?
I always wondered how Amazon did "clearance" -- shelf space is finite, what happens to items that hit the end of the line? Do they get shipped back to the manufacturer? I gotta figure that
Don't get banned (Score:2)
It used to happen all the time. They are just automating it more. I remember Amazon asked us keep the items for almost a decade now (probably more, mine just happened to be that long ago). I am not sure about Walmart, but any smart company that can calculate shipping / reprocessing costs can do the same. H*ck, even eBay is now forcing that upon sellers.
The issue is, these kinds of events add up in your profile. Even when you are not malicious (and don't be!), the system will flag your account, and they migh
Treat the robots like humans .. (Score:2)
Tell the f'ing robots to take a pay cut!
Re: (Score:2)
Processing returns is typically something that a robot cannot do. People will send their stuff in non-standard boxes, with non-standard packaging and random transport protection, and then you also need to check whether the return was legitimate or not, and make a decision about whether to put the return back in your stock, or discard it.
got 99% (by weight) of a bed this way! (Score:2)
Couple of years ago my new wood frame kingsize double bed kit arrived with no bolts+dowels to assemble it and a few dents&scrapes on the wood. After 2 attempts to collect it in a small car, Amazon gave up and told me to keep it. Nice free set of spare parts to reinforce it's replacement and build furniture with.
Result :)
hmmm (Score:2)
Back in olden times this happened a lot in business-to-business. Like if you told IBM your keyboard stopped working, they'd just send you another one, just wasn't worth seeing whether you were telling the truth.
Unlike the government (Score:3)
Shades of Fight Club (Score:2)
Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Why are we surprised that companies are more interested in the bottom line then custom
Congratulations! (Score:1)
You have now slashdotted this practice, as everyone will start abusing it.
Amazon did this for years... (Score:1)
We sent you broken shit... (Score:2)
... so you pay to dispose of it.
They probably all live in socialist enclaves where trash is "free" and the environment gets a neverending black eye.
UPS and goodwill (Score:2)
Amazon etc. should have a partnership program with charities like goodwill as well as their partnerships for returns with Kohls and the UPS store. When you go through the return process online some kind of AI mechanism should give you return options that include a no-wrap drop-off at one of the local collection locations.
If they want the item back or if it is broken it can go the the UPs store, if they don't want it back and it is on good shape it can go to goodwill
That way Amazon stay responsible for dispo
Not a new policy (Score:1)
In the case of Amazon, at least, this is not a new policy. Multiple times over the years I've been told to just discard items I needed to return and still got credit.
Not a new practice (Score:2)
Buy morphine online. (Score:1)