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Toshiba Pursues Copyright Claim Against Laptop Manual Site 268

Posted by Soulskill
from the overactive-legal-team dept.
An anonymous reader writes "I'm sure most Slashdot readers have had occasion to suffer through a hardware manufacturer's terrible website in search of product documentation. It's often hidden away in submenus of submenus, and if your product is more than a couple years old, you probably have to wade through broken links. One guy has been helping to change that; he runs a site called Tim's Laptop Service Manuals, where he collects by hand materials from many different companies and hosts them together in one spot. Now Toshiba has become aware of his project, and helpfully forced him to remove all of their manuals under a copyright claim."
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Toshiba Pursues Copyright Claim Against Laptop Manual Site

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  • by skywire (469351) * on Saturday November 10, 2012 @10:36AM (#41942065)

    But I'm sure we'll now see a flood of posts from the clueless about how Toshiba "has to defend their patent or lose it".

    • by Splab (574204) on Saturday November 10, 2012 @10:49AM (#41942143)

      Copyright and patents are two vastly different beasts.

    • by fatphil (181876) on Saturday November 10, 2012 @10:50AM (#41942149) Homepage
      Nah, nah, nah - "May your laptop drop dead" + "and please buy another one from us when it does" - totally different from "drop dead", you're *so* cynical.

      (But regarding your body text, I'm sure there will be some clueless parroting of "information wants to be free" too.)

      I'm curious - could individuals host single pages, under the Fair Use doctrine? If you have enough individuals doing that, ones who don't forbid an aggregator from reframing their content (whilst hosting none itsef), ...

      (And this could be the true use for "Anonymous", not their braindead LOIC DDoS attempts.)
      • (But regarding your body text, I'm sure there will be some clueless parroting of "information wants to be free" too.)
        [...]
        I'm curious - could individuals host single pages, under the Fair Use doctrine?

        Who is more clueless, the one parroting, "Information wants to be free", or the one calling those folks clueless while advocating the same?

        • by fatphil (181876)
          The one responding to the latter, clearly.

          Those with a working brain will have noticed thatI do not throw around meaningless tropes, attempting to personify inanimate non-objects. Those wishing to say that it's hard to stop information propagating once it's reached the masses have much more meaningful alternative ways of expressing that idea.
      • I'm curious - could individuals host single pages, under the Fair Use doctrine? If you have enough individuals doing that, ones who don't forbid an aggregator from reframing their content (whilst hosting none itsef), ...

        That would be missing the point. As a manufacturer, you should be glad if your documentation is widely available. I could understand checksumming your PDF files and checking that, because you wouldn't want modified documentation, but what Toshiba does looks stupid to me.

        Of course Toshiba has the copyright, and I could understand using that copyright to prevent modified derivatives. But why on earth would you want to prevent original documentation from being distributed?

      • by stephanruby (542433) on Saturday November 10, 2012 @09:47PM (#41946903)

        I'm curious - could individuals host single pages, under the Fair Use doctrine? If you have enough individuals doing that, ones who don't forbid an aggregator from reframing their content (whilst hosting none itsef), ...

        Sure, you'd also need to hash the entire manual and compare the hash key every time someone downloads the manual, to make sure none of those pages got corrupted/modified in the process. While you're at it, you'll probably also need some kind of tracker to aggregate the list of manuals and aggregate the list of pages everyone makes available separately.

        And why limit it to single pages? You could split up each manual into a thousand different data packets, and you could make sure multiple people have a copy of the same data packets, to build some redundancy into the system, just in case some of the volunteers' servers/computers are not online 24/7.

        This is a great idea, that could potentially revolutionize the web.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Patents must be defended when challenges. Trademarks must be protected to remain. However, copyright is inherent in creating the work in most western laws.

    • I'm not buying a Toshiba again. My current Qosmio is the first and last Toshiba shit I'm ever going to buy (£20/$30 to get the recovery media). Their website is absolutely shocking. Everything is 5-10 clicks away. My laptop's onboard update works like this: Message Alert - Click - Opens a Program - Click on Update list - Click on highlighted Update - Opens a browser with a dead link. So... I have to manually find that update from their website, download, extract, run and I get a message "Wrong version
      • by TheLink (130905)
        Funny thing is I'm using Toshiba touchpad software on my workplace Dell, since the Toshiba version has more features (e.g. autodisable touchpad if mouse plugged in).

        Unfortunately it also auto-disables the touchpad whenever I enable wireless (which is not that often, so not a big problem for me).
  • by Lehk228 (705449)
    it's a shame, i was under the impression that toshiba made decent machines
    • Re:shame (Score:5, Informative)

      by LoneTech (117911) on Saturday November 10, 2012 @10:44AM (#41942105) Homepage

      They used to. It started to get a bit less reliable somewhere around the 3000 series. At this point they're yet another PC manufacturer short on ideas with a legal department that considers customer hostility a good thing. It seems a common problem when a company grows enough to hire administrative people who aren't involved with the products.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by stevew (4845)

      How is a company defending a legitimate copyright imply anything about the quality of their machines.

      We are all about enforcement of the GPL to protect our rights in the free software movement, yet when a company uses EXACTLY the same laws that give us the freedom to choose alternate software everyone gets up-in-arms about the big bad business pursuing a claim against someone who has essentially stolen their copyrighted work and is using it to make money?

      • Information just wants to be free...as long as it's not GPLed.

      • by Ichoran (106539)

        It implies that even if they make decent machines, you don't want to buy from them because they will use their legal rights to make your life more difficult.

        Thanks, but if there's a less hostile option, I'll take it.

      • Re:shame (Score:5, Insightful)

        by similar_name (1164087) on Saturday November 10, 2012 @11:47AM (#41942555)
        I'm not sure he was making money from it. From the looks of his site he doesn't even have ads*. In any event, I'm okay with copyright (I may think it's too long right now but the idea is valid IMO). In this case though, I think Toshiba would be wiser to let him do what it does. They could create a license for their manuals that allow this type of thing if they're really worried about defending copyright. And freedom to choose, means that people can choose not to buy Toshiba because of this. Since companies exist to make money, boycotting them when you disagree with a policy is one of the best ways to influence their behavior.

        *He does have a donate button. I don't think that means his site rises to the level of a commercial enterprise but I wouldn't defend that position if you disagree. But I would still think it in the interest of Toshiba's customers (and Toshiba) to let him do this.
      • How is someone who can't tell the difference between theft and violating copyright, in addition to confusing the difference between declarative and interrogative statements, supposed to be credible on the issue of copyright?
      • How is a company defending a legitimate copyright imply anything about the quality of their machines.

        It doesn't tell you anything directly about the quality of heir machines, but it does tell you about their attitudes towards their customers, namely "screw you".

        The fact that they have the right to screw their customers doesn't mean people don't have a right to criticize them for it.

      • First off, copying is not theft [gnu.org]. You're making an appeal to authority without considering what that authority says. As the FSF points out, "Unauthorized copying is forbidden by copyright law in many circumstances (not all!), but being forbidden doesn't make it wrong. In general, laws don't define right and wrong. Laws, at their best, attempt to implement justice. If the laws (the implementation) don't fit our ideas of right and wrong (the spec), the laws are what should change.".

        Second, the key to underst

      • We are all about enforcement of the GPL to protect our rights in the free software movement, yet when a company uses EXACTLY the same laws that give us the freedom to choose alternate software everyone gets up-in-arms about the big bad business pursuing a claim against someone who has essentially stolen their copyrighted work and is using it to make money?

        I don't think anybody says Toshiba doesn't have the right to do this, but their action doesn't help Toshiba nor their customers in any way and therefore is stupid.

  • And let them know why. I'm not as anti-copyright as most around here, but this is just stupid. It's not like it's costing them sales; probably saving them money at the end of the day.
    • by Tanktalus (794810) on Saturday November 10, 2012 @10:50AM (#41942153) Journal

      Oh, I dunno about that. I think they're thinking that a) if you can't find the manual, you'll be forced to upgrade sooner (and, incumbant advantage here: if you have a Toshiba, you're probably more likely to pick Toshiba again), and b) by removing the old documentation, they're probably hoping their competition will have a harder time using old documentation against them (e.g., documented limitations, workarounds, whatever). By not being forced to upgrade, they're losing money. By allowing their competition more time to put out laptops better than Toshiba's old laptops and being able to quote their past failures, they're losing money to their competitors.

      Either that, or they have a fresh-outta-school lawyer who has not learned that his job involves "marketing".

      • I'm not sure about incumbency and brand loyalty. There's so little to choose between laptops that, after a sequence of buying from Dell, when their sales people irritated me with their ignorance and unhelpfulness I switched brands.

        Toshiba may just not care about the consumer market because they have enough exclusive, or nearly so, contracts with large corporations, and/or, they probably didn't think through the wide publicity that a stupid move like this would generate.
      • by Bert64 (520050)

        If i couldn't find the manual because the company website was crap, i would be looking to buy a different brand as a replacement. With the exception of Apple, there is very little brand loyalty with laptops - they are all pretty much equivalent and easily swappable.

    • Sure it is, as if you can fix minor isues with the service manual, you wont have to go buy a new one from them.

    • by 91degrees (207121)
      The thing about stupidity is it just needs one stupid lawyer who gets a bee in is bonnet about Copyright. The others aren't going to stop him because he's technically legally right.

      It's probable that the people who have the power and desire to reverse this decision hadn't heard about it until now.
    • by Stirling Newberry (848268) on Saturday November 10, 2012 @12:21PM (#41942797) Homepage Journal
      It is actions like this, as well as who is paid, that has turned many people against copyright as an abusive and indefensible theft of the commons.
  • Thanks Toshiba! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    My present laptop is a Toshiba. Now I know to avoid them when buying my next. There's such a big selection these days, I love it when a company makes my life easier!

  • Clearly, Toshiba does not want anybody to use their products any more.

    • by SeaFox (739806)

      Clearly, Toshiba does not want anybody to fix their own products any more.

      There. Fixed that for you.
      I can't remember the last time the lack of a repair manual has kept me from operating a device.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 10, 2012 @10:48AM (#41942135)

    I understand copyright law, and that what this guy is doing is pretty clearly in violation of it, however:
    1) the manuals are useless unless you have already bought Toshiba products, so people downloading the manuals are mostly likely your paying customers anyway
    2) support is an important aspect of my purchasing decisions, and having easy access to technical manuals makes a big difference, especially for laptops, where getting into them to replace parts or fix things is particularly tricky
    3) if people need to resort to a 3rd-party website to get the manual, then you need to fix YOUR site
    4) why not get together with other laptop computer manufacturers and SUPPORT the guy in his efforts, rather than discouraging him?

    • by Capitaine (2026730) on Saturday November 10, 2012 @11:24AM (#41942365)
      Because Toshiba sells repairs. Or at least sells nice "Toshiba-authorised" stickers to repair-shop which in exchange expect advantages over non authorised shops. It's actually written in the middle of TFA citing Toshiba lawyers:
      “The manuals are only available to Toshiba authorised service providers under strict confidentiality agreements.” “It is not our company policy to grant authorisation for the use or reproduction of Toshiba manuals to anyone who is not an authorised Toshiba service provider.”
      • by sjames (1099) on Saturday November 10, 2012 @03:26PM (#41944381) Homepage

        I'm not so sure I want to buy anything from a company that considers repairs to be a profit center. Too much conflict of interest.

      • by HiThere (15173)

        That sounds like a good reason to avoid Toshiba.

        I know that what they are doing is legal. It is at least arguable that it is ethical. It is undoubtable, however, that it is hostile to a group of customers. Or, possibly now, ex-customers. Or at least ex-potential customers. (I don't suppose that would be sufficient grounds to go through the hassle of returning an already purchased machine. Merely grounds not to buy one.)

    • ad 4) It is not in Toshiba's interest to run behind 3rd-party sites to make sure they update their outdated manuals.

      Also, we have this thing called the "web", which is built by making so-called "links".
      Every company, and Toshiba too, has a website where you can select your model and download its manual. Directly from the manufacturer.
      https://uk.computers.toshiba-europe.com/innovation/download_manuals.jsp [toshiba-europe.com]
      I can see why you would want for yourself a folder with the laptops you repair, but it's unnecessary to r

      • by grumbel (592662)

        Also, we have this thing called the "web", which is built by making so-called "links".

        And once the link is a few years old, you can be almost certain that it will be dead. Links are a really shitty way when you want to make sure things stay available.

      • ad 4) It is not in Toshiba's interest to run behind 3rd-party sites to make sure they update their outdated manuals.

        Also, we have this thing called the "web", which is built by making so-called "links".
        Every company, and Toshiba too, has a website where you can select your model and download its manual. Directly from the manufacturer.
        https://uk.computers.toshiba-europe.com/innovation/download_manuals.jsp [toshiba-europe.com]
        I can see why you would want for yourself a folder with the laptops you repair, but it's unnecessary to redistribute.

        That said, there is no real reason manuals shouldn't be CC BY-ND or at least CC BY-NC-ND.

        I do not think the "manuals" this website was offering are the same "manuals" which you can get via that link. There is a certain difference between an end-user manual (i.e. "do not microwave this notebook or feed it to your dog") and a REPAIR manual, which describes in detail how to access and replace the motherboard and which screws have to be removed in which order to do so.

    • by sribe (304414)

      5) It's copyright, not trademark--by allowing continued infringement they would give up no rights against other infringers, nor other uses of the manuals, nor even against this guy if in the future they changes their mind or he does something that offends them more.

    • Toshiba is now blackballed on my list of manufacturers to buy laptops from. Good, makes my decisions easier.
  • Unless Toshiba's objection is that if people lose their manuals and cannot easily replace them (on account of a difficult to navigate website), then they might be inclined to more expediently purchase replacement equipment than they otherwise would if people could hold onto their increasingly obsolete equipment because they still have a resource available that gives them all the particulars of operating it, I really have absolutely no idea what Toshiba's problem with this is, unless Toshiba already charges
  • by Andy Prough (2730467) on Saturday November 10, 2012 @10:55AM (#41942177)
    My daughter got a Toshiba laptop as a graduation gift from her grandparents, and a few months into her ownership the keyboard died completely. Toshiba would not allow the device to be returned for repair/replacement under their warranty without first paying a phone "technician" $49 for a "repair consultation". The "tech" was a completely clueless English-as-a-second-language phone center guy. They offered to "refund" the $49 if their phone service did not help (hint - their phone procedures were useless with a broken keyboard). They then offered a $29 box to use to send them the laptop for repair/replacement. This company is pure garbage - they want $78 to replace a laptop keyboard that probably costs $5 or less.
    • more and more common. I got a motherboard from gigabyte that gave black screens during XP install. they said if I sent it in and they decided it wasn't their fault I'd have to pay hourly. a BIOS update several revs down fixed the problem. Not buying from them again...

    • by markdavis (642305) on Saturday November 10, 2012 @11:16AM (#41942297)

      I am not trying to excuse Toshiba, but if you have had to deal with the general, clueless "public" with computer support, you might have a better understanding of why they (and other companies) are doing that.

      I would guess that even more than 90% of all calls to support have nothing to do with a hardware problem. They are typically:

      * MS-Windows brokenness
      * MS-Windows virii and malware
      * Broken third-party software and drivers
      * Broken third-party hardware (chargers, cables, drives)
      * Users that don't understand how basic stuff works (connecting WiFi, booting, burning discs, copying files)
      * Users who have hosed their machines by doing stupid stuff

      That, unfortunately, means a HUGE expense to computer manufacturers, and those costs were traditionally plowed right back into the sticker price of everything they sold. In a fiercely competitive industry, companies are looking for ways to cut their prices as much as possible. Support is the first target. (And the second seems to be machine quality).

      The people like the Slashdot crowd are now forced to pay the price for the changed ecosystem- we have to put up with stupid front-line "support" levels that are not support, and pay stupid fees that to try and filter out the bad apples. The assumption is that every caller to a support center is an idiot.

      There are times I wish that computer professionals could carry some type of "license" that would allow them to skip the normal channels and jump directly to support people that really are support.

      • Seemed like a scam to me, however. If you're going to manufacture a product, I think that warranty law requires that the expense for under-warranty repair falls to the manufacturing company.
        • by markdavis (642305)

          But they are probably filling the loophole by making the fees "refundable" if it really is a warranty related issue. It is sleazy, indeed.

          • Yeah, I'm sure they have corporate lawyers working overtime to make this scam fit within a loophole.
    • That's odd. I also live in TX, Houston to be precise, and a three years ago purchased my mother a new 17" Toshiba. I installed GNU/Linux on it right out of the box (previously having verified that it would work with with the OS). I did have to compile the wireless driver, which was available from Toshiba's support website... While there I also noted that the fingerprint reader driver was available for my own Laptop (and it works neatly too, just swipe finger after "sudo"). While copying a lot of music

      • I'm wondering if three years really did make that much difference. I've had their products in the past, and had not run into any trouble. But I talked to the support "tech" and the supervisor, and they told me it was policy. It may also be that your problem occurred immediately - I think they have staggered levels of support, depending on how long out from purchase.
    • by brit74 (831798)

      they want $78 to replace a laptop keyboard that probably costs $5 or less.

      Laptop keyboards cost around $20-$30, BTW. I've had to replace mine.
      https://www.google.com/search?q=laptop+keyboard [google.com]

  • by angel'o'sphere (80593) on Saturday November 10, 2012 @10:58AM (#41942195) Homepage Journal

    Obviously if you publish or distribute some work you did not craft yourself, you should ask the owner first.
    If only for politeness sake.
    How would you feel if I published an old pdf from you without asking or informing you?

    • by Rockoon (1252108)

      How would you feel if I published an old pdf from you without asking or informing you?

      I would feel grateful for keeping the dream alive.

    • by brit74 (831798)

      How would you feel if I published an old pdf from you without asking or informing you?

      It depends on my business model. If I was trying to sell copies of my pdf (because it's a book or something), then I'd be unhappy. If the pdf wasn't the thing I was selling, but hardware was the thing I was selling, then I really wouldn't care. If Toshiba is giving away free copies of the pdf on their website (and not as part of an ad-based revenue model), then I wouldn't expect them to get too concerned about other websites giving it away for free, too.

    • How would you feel if I published an old pdf from you without asking or informing you?

      People do that all the time, and I don't mind at all.

  • Now that Lenovo, HP (and subs), and Toshiba have gone to shit, what's left? Acer or Asus? And what's with these dastardly companies trying so hard to keep people stupid about the machines they buy. HP and Lenovo put hardware blacklists in the BIOS, and Toshiba doesn't want anyone knowing what's beneath the hood. I always valued Toshiba as an indestructible and slightly buggy laptop, and they've always been an option if something better couldn't be found. Now, they are not an option. I fear though, at this r
  • Do Authorized Toshiba Technicians (whatever that entails) pay Toshiba for exclusive access to the documents?
  • by Guppy (12314) on Saturday November 10, 2012 @11:07AM (#41942241)

    Ah yes, Toshiba and their wonderful legacy support.

    The company that dropped all their support info down the memory hole without warning, when they exited the digital camera business back in 2004. All the manuals, software, firmware, and FAQs simply disappeared their site. I discovered this when I had to upgrade the firmware in one of my old cameras to address SD card compatibility issues (at the time it was already technologically obsolete in many ways, but had excellent quality optics). Only place that still had the firmware was a 3rd-party driver site with the flashing procedure instructions written in Chinese. Fortunately, the firmware itself turned out to be in English.

    Toshiba eventually re-entered the camera business, but any information from their earlier generation of cameras is gone. If you want any downloads or manuals, Toshiba re-directs you to a third party telephone support service that charges $19.95 for assistance. Actually, that fee might be behind the removal of their laptop manuals as well -- whatever outsourced agency Toshiba dumped their legacy support info to, wants to be paid for that info.

  • This is clearly a copyright violation as the law currently stands. But I think you could make a good argument for user manuals - that are only of value if you have a product to begin with - should not be covered under copyright.

    • allows for archiving. I don't know how this Toshiba manuals does not fall within the archiving exception?
      • Because the guy is in Australia and US Fair Use exceptions have no bearing there? It's possible that Australia's "fair dealing" exceptions don't cover archiving.

        • allows for "fair dealing provisions for the purpose of research and study" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing#Australia). I would imagine that a liberal interpretation of Tim's Laptop use could fall within that exception. Although, I'm sure Toshiba's corporate lawyers would argue that he's not doing research - he's providing a commercial service for paid computer repairmen.
  • by 0101000001001010 (466440) on Saturday November 10, 2012 @11:11AM (#41942265)

    Mental note: Toshiba laptops are now worth less because the manuals will be harder to come by.

  • They want to be like that, dont give them your money.

  • I've been using & repairing PCs & laptops for over 20 years & I've never touched a Toshiba that wasn't a flaming piece of crap. Even the $4k QOSMO one of my customers had was complete junk.

    I wouldn't keep a Toshiba Satellite around if it was given to me free & new.

  • The lawyers are concerned that a manual might be altered in some way and that a customer who downloaded an altered manual might suffer harm because of it. The customer could then sue Toshiba and claim that since they knew the site existed and was hosting their manuals that they had an obligation to ensure that the manuals were accurate.

    It's paranoia in the extreme, but attorneys are paid to be paranoid. They need someone else to reign them in, and apparently in this case, that hasn't happened.

  • It's great he was archiving these manuals, and it might be foolish for Toshiba to demand they be removed. However, his website isn't a solution either.

    Manuals get updated and it's important to have the current versions. Furthermore, they may contain information that companies don't want to let out of their control.

    A better idea would be some kind of standard for websites, like a cultural convention that every website has a "support" menu option and under it a "documentation" option that leads to a search bl

    • by couchslug (175151)

      "Manuals get updated and it's important to have the current versions."

      For aircraft, yes.

      For notebooks? Bullshit!

      They are short-term consumer products and basic manuals are sufficient.

  • Just don't buy them. Recommend/review against them. Refuse to support them.

    Then let's see what their copyright is worth.

  • I guess this helps me with my decision on a new laptop. HP it is..

  • From a liability perspective, it is obvious why they would shut this down.

    While it would never occur to most people on this site, please understand that once you have other people in control of your documentation and distributing it, they can do whatever they want with it. There is no assurance that a manual hosted on a third-party site is in fact the original manual as published by Toshiba.

    So imagine the scenario where someone hosting such a copied manual adds a page that implies that certain persons of a

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 10, 2012 @12:44PM (#41942977)

    Hello,

    I am in the market for a laptop, which means I am reading quite a bit as part of
    my research as to which laptop to eventually buy. You can imagine my surprise
    when I ran across this:

    http://www.tim.id.au/blog/2012/11/10/toshiba-laptop-service-manuals-and-the-sorry-state-of-copyright-law/ [tim.id.au]

    It seems Toshiba has decided that non-commercial distribution of product manuals, which
    is a thing that would actually HELP the owners of Toshiba laptops, is not allowed:

    âoeYou do not have permission [to disseminate Toshiba copyright material] nor will it be granted
    to you in the foreseeable future.â

    I most definitely won't be buying a Toshiba laptop, nor will I ever purchase any other
    Toshiba products. Your policies are anti-consumer and hurt those foolish enough to spend
    their money with your company.

    Further more, numerous examples of other of Toshiba's anti-consumer policies, are found
    in public comments to an article linked here:

    http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/12/11/10/1334221/toshiba-pursues-copyright-claim-against-laptop-manual-site [slashdot.org]

    Thank you so much for publically stating Toshiba policy. It leaves me with quite clear
    reasons as to why I will never purchase Toshiba products.

  • and helpfully forced him to remove all of their manuals under a copyright claim.

    That's not helpful. That's not helpful at all!

  • And any manual anyone has on the product is by definition completely useless. If you want to know something better go to YouTube.

  • Fuck Toshiba for trying to make their older machines even less maintainable.

  • by jklovanc (1603149) on Saturday November 10, 2012 @03:04PM (#41944185)

    Copyright laws protect creative and artistic works. To me the collection of facts on how a printer operates is no more creative than the collection of phone numbers in a phone book.

  • by drolli (522659) on Saturday November 10, 2012 @08:17PM (#41946457) Journal

    In the radios in the 50s (which i picked from the trash) schematics including simple test procedures were stuck in a small paper envelope taped to the inside of the enclosure.

    In the electronic device of the 80s at least a schematic was included in the manual, often including simple test instrucitons.

    At some point the belief started that only licensed service centers or at least some who pay fro the instructions should have the information to touch the holy devices.

    MESSAGE TO THE COMPANIES: I am the customer who buys you fucking device. Every money you charge for helping to fix/repair the device i gave you money for will make me less happy.

    Its sad to know that a broken stabilizer capacitor probably causes more cost (and effort) to repair dur to the small and intransparent market than to just buy a new device.

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