HP Stops Selling Printers, Starts Selling Prints

An anonymous reader writes "HP has launched a new line of business printers but there's a big catch — you won't be able to buy one. For the first time in history, the company will make customers purchase printing services, rather than the product itself. At its biggest printer launch since the LaserJet in 1984, HP's new business-class Edgeline printers will only be available through a managed services contract. Pricing will be per page, depending on the quality of the printout. Edgeline technology is said to be so ink-efficient that if HP were to sell these printers, they would never match the money they make from consumables (cartridges etc) now."

Misleading Summary Title

So, they're not stopping selling printers, they've just released a new line of contracted/leased service printers. Nice work.

Re:Misleading Summary Title

Chalk another one up to Zonkism.

Re:Misleading Summary Title

Nice "editing", Zonk. I hope Slashdot is paying you what you're worth.

Re:Misleading Summary Title

luckily they got him back when you could still just buy Slashdot Editors and pay once, none of this managed editing services jibberish

Re:Misleading Summary Title

True, it would be stupid to stop selling printers anyway. A printer in which I don't get a print in less than a few minutes isn't very useful to me.

Ink for business printers is a lot cheaper than with consumer printers anyway. That's the nature of the business, you want a cheap printer, they want you to pay for the ink. If you want cheap ink, then you pay for a more expensive printer. HP and many other companies treat their consumer products differently from their business products because they are different markets with different expectations.

Re:Misleading Summary Title

'True, it would be stupid to stop selling printers anyway. A printer in which I don't get a print in less than a few minutes isn't very useful to me.'

You do still get the print right away. The printer is physically present in your business but you pay a lease and pay for each page you print.

Re:Misleading Summary Title

On our managed printers, an engineer pops in every month or so to do a 10 minute long "service check", and while he's blowing the dust out of the paper feeders he checks the internal counters, then you get a bill for your months usage. Go long enough without the scheduled checks, and the printer shuts itself off.

Re:Misleading Summary Title

Go long enough without the scheduled checks, and the printer shuts itself off.

Depending on what's stated in the contract, this can be a "good thing". Replacement parts are NOT cheap, so by doing proper maintenance to avoid breakdown, money is saved in the long run.

Not having scheduled checks on the printer could be equivalent to not changing the oil in your car. If the engine breaks down from neglect, should the dealership cover the repairs under warranty?

Re:Misleading Summary Title

No, it is essentially the same model as the way commercial copiers are handled, except from the article, there is no charge for just having the printer in your business.

You see, the current copier leasing model charges you a monthly fee for having the copier, as well as charging you a per-copy rate for each copy you make. The copier has a counter (or two counters for those that keep track of mono and multi color copies separately) and either a technician comes out and physically reads the counter, you are called on the telephone to read off the counter numbers to the company rep, or in some cases, your copier is called directly via it's own connection to your line, and the counters are read without physical user interaction.

So your internet connection has nothing to do with it.

HP is just not going to sell these commercial copiers to the companies that want them. HP is only going to lease them, and then instead of charging a monthly fee, they are going to charge based on the number of prints. They will most likely get these totals by one of the methods I described above, or quite possibly even over an internet connection, but you can be assured they will not have only ONE method of getting these totals. There will be multiple methods available to them to get the total numbers of prints per month, as it is how they are saying they are going to charge their customers.

These are not going to be print services over the internet. You are not going to connect your company computers to an HP server where they mail you the prints you make.

Re:Misleading Summary Title

"A printer in which I don't get a print in less than a few minutes isn't very useful to me."

Did you RTFA? This is the technology we read on /. oh so long ago [slashdot.org]:
"new Memjet technology can print 60 full-color pages per minute. Instead of having a print head that moves side to side like current inkjets, the print head spans the full width of the page."

From TFA:
"Edgeline uses a page-wide stationary print-head, decreasing wear and tear by removing contact with the paper."

Here's an amazing (unbelievable?) video of the Memjet printer in action [texyt.com]
I've been waiting for this ever since I heard of it: All the photographic quality of a inkjet with faster speeds than laser printers and saving ink to boot. Very disappointed we won't see it at home now, but it's only a matter of time before it filters down.

Re:Misleading Summary Title

Psst, that's what patents are for. So don't expect to see this on the consumer white market for quite a while.

Re:Misleading Summary Title

I've been waiting for this ever since I heard of it: All the photographic quality of a inkjet with faster speeds than laser printers and saving ink to boot. Very disappointed we won't see it at home now, but it's only a matter of time before it filters down.

It would filter down a lot sooner if printer manufacturers would adopt this fantastic new business model where you charge what products are actually worth and not adopt this "buy this cheap, pay for extras to keep us afloat" mentality. This is just another version of a company wanting a constant, consistant revenue stream verses having to actually innovate and keep product lines fresh to get new sales.

Everyone wants to be a utility,

Well, the problem is - that's what the public bought, the cheap printers over the expensive ones with the low priced consumables. Of course now they cry over the price of ink - but we all know the public is stupid.

Re:Misleading Summary Title

Or rather that they've released a line of printer where they've stopped hiding the monthly charges in the "ink costs".

HP doing what Xerox has done for years, Woo!

That's news you can use! Thanks Zonk, and thanks for the oh-so-accurate headline. Come on, the only news here is that HP is so late to the game when almost every other big player has offered both options for years.

Re:HP doing what Xerox has done for years, Woo!

technically, HP has been in the pay per print [hp.com] (we call them clicks) business for years. now they're just moving it down to slight lower end hardware that isn't running 18 hours a day.

Re:-ING form of verbs!

That should be "morer dumberer". Sheeshing.

Re:-ING form of verbs!

We need a grammar Schindler, to save the thousands of grammar mistakes here from the horrible persecution and injustice directed towards them.

Re:-ING form of verbs!

Touche.
Since Oskar Schindler saved thousands of Jews by employing them in his factories, the closest analogue would have to be the Slashdot editors, since they give all those grammar mistakes a place to stay.

Re:News for nerds, stuff that really matters

Sure, try this [theonion.com] site for a news alternative to Slashdot. Mostly, it's is a little more accurate. Mostly.

Bad Headline

I don't see that HP will stop selling printers. They just won't sell this one. You can still buy other HP printers, though. But the Edgeline does seem like a nice printer, though. $50 says that in 5 years, every office will have one (that they own).

Re:Bad Headline

But the Edgeline does seem like a nice printer, though. $50 says that in 5 years, every office will have one (that they own).

I'm not sure why they are now just claiming that they are ink efficient. My HP DeskJet 400C was so ink efficient that I used the same black and white cartridge for 5 years in college until it completely broke down and several hardware rollers came out with the final page of my Senior Thesis.

I replaced it with another HP DeskJet expecting the same kind of service level but found that the printer hardware was cheap, the ink needed to be replaced MUCH MORE often (every two months at my levels), and that it was sometimes less money to buy a new DeskJet each time at Walmart than to replace the ink cartridge.

I don't own a printer any more and only use a printer at work when I absolutely must have something printed out (tax time is about the only thing I can think of in recent memory).

Let's go back to the ink efficient days of the DeskJet 400C and fuck these contract based service packages.

Re:Bad Headline

Let's go back to the ink efficient days of the DeskJet 400C and fuck these contract based service packages.

What? Are you one of those radical/liberals who place customer value and/or human rights above corporate profits? Infidel! Heathen!

Re:Bad Headline

That's part of the business model of printers these days. Provide a subsidy on the hardware and make it up in consumables (ink, paper, etc.). Keep in mind, that printer that is cheaper than new ink cartridges only comes with "starter" cartridges which hold less ink than the normal ones. So, it might be cheaper, but you also get less ink (and therefore have to replace more frequently). But, you can probably make up the difference by selling the older printer on eBay or something.

I'd like to see the profit point on printers. How many ink cartridges do I have to buy for them to make up the loss on the hardware? Do companies plan for that payback over time? What is their estimate on how long it takes?

Layne

It Depends...

Thanks to the excellent Linux support by the HPLIP Project [sourceforge.net] I am faithful to HP, at least for the time being. I am quite impressed that pretty much all features of my all-in-one printer have been working for years, without any major glitches.

I have seen the Windows HP drivers (quite a while ago) and have to say that at the time they were far too intrusive for my liking and I would not have used the HP software under Windows. So I'd buy an HP printer for Linux, but if I were using Windows I'd probably compare lots of makes first and my choice might be different.

Ditch ink, get a laser.

Let's go back to the ink efficient days of the DeskJet 400C and fuck these contract based service packages.

Why don't you just buy a laser printer?

I can't believe anyone with a clue is still using ink-based printers, with lasers being the price they are now. You can get a fairly inexpensive Samsung or maybe even an HP laser printer for $100 - 150, sometimes on sale for under 100, and with a full toner cartridge get thousands of pages out of it.

They're so far superior to ink-based printers that I just don't understand why anyone wouldn't use them. The only thing they don't do, or that you have to pay a significant amount extra for, is color. But really, for the occasional color print you can keep one of those more-expensive-than-liquid-gold ink printers around if you really need it. Or pay the $250 or $300 to get a color laser (and probably step up to something that'll do duplexing).

Inkjet printers need to die, as a technology. The only niche market they deserve to keep is for photo printing for the terminally impatient and un-quality-conscious folks who can't or don't want to drive down to their local CVS/WalMart and use a lightjet.

Wow...

... who says they need Carly Fiornia to make stupid decisions...

Re:Wow...

Actually, this is a business class printer, not a home printer.

Which means it's not such a bad decision - businesses seem to like things like this, where the only responsibility to them is to have static per-page cost of the printer.

What a pity

"Edgeline technology is said to be so ink-efficient that if HP were to sell these printers, they would never match the money they make from consumables (cartridges etc) now." So they've innovated their way out of their own ability to gouge their customers? My heart bleeds...

How innovative

Many businesses have been getting printers they way for a long time. The only difference is that this time it's the printer manufacturer that's getting the service contract, and not some third party company. In my opinion, this makes perfect sense. The company who made the product is probably the one most qualified to fix and service it. Granted, you probably won't be able to shop around, because if you want that printer, there's no competition, but you'll still be able to compare with other printer brands.

Re:How innovative

It will still be the same third party companies supporting these printers. They will just be "Authorized HP Printer Service Representatives."

cartridge refills

Edgeline technology is said to be so ink-efficient that if HP were to sell these printers, they would never match the money they make from consumables (cartridges etc) now.

Bull. They realized they can't win against cartridge refills. So this is what they're doing to stop refillers.

Re:cartridge refills

Exactly. They claim only a 30% ink saving ... kind of hard to believe that they can't makee it up by increased demand, same as everyone else does when they lower costs.

That printer sounds like its based on the tech

of this company here:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/ 22/1241222 [slashdot.org]

Basically the ultrawide print head and instataneous drying times, etcetera. Any confirmation?

Edgeline technology is said to be so ink-efficient

Sounds like a big marketing hype.

COMPANY: Our technology is so good we can't even sell it. But of course if you are willing to pay a premium we might consider it....

COSTOMER: Oh, wow. This shit has to be good if they can't sell it. We have to see if HP will sell it to _us_. We'll even offer them to pay extra.

COMPANY: Suckers...!

...

Reminds of when I went shopping for cars with my uncle in Odessa, Ukraine. This guy was selling used cars. At the end of the lot he had a car covered under a sheet. My uncle asks, what's model you have there. He said "That's not for sale." He then proceeded to tell us how that was a special model blah blah blah. Then my uncle talked him into selling it, payed extra for the 'special' features. Then as we drove away it, the salesman took the sheet and put it on the car right next to it. Seems like HP is doing the same thing here...

Re:Cost per page printed

'I'm in IT, and we measure all costs per page, managed or unmanaged. Most people don't even think of cost over the life of the printer, and choose inkjets because they are 1/5 the price of laser, and spend much more over the life of the printer buying ink.'

True but its an artificial increase. Once upon a time I printed 500-2000 page books on my HP deskjet printers. Not one printer died and the cartridge lasted. Now you'd run out of ink if you printed a 200 page book.

China factor?

I noticed that the product launch was in China, and that had me thinking...

The chinese are notorious for buying something, reverse engineering it, and within a period of time having a duplicate chinese version for sale. Maybe HP is trying to prevent that from happening?

Re:Broken model?

Here's a new idea. Why not make a printer, and sell it for what it costs to make, plus fair profit for the company? You could even use this same wacky business model for the ink! I know it doesn't quite follow the over-simplified model of selling a printer at just enough to cover your costs, then soak the end user with grossly overpriced consumables because that ensures a source of renewable income, thus making the your budget spreadsheet nice and pretty, but I think people have made it work in the past. Like every company that ever sold anything before the 1970's.

You are missing something here. In the 1970s a lot of these companies were newer and therefore not completely used to screwing over the customer quite yet. Unfortunately the way corporations operate is by constantly cutting margins and finding new ways to screw the consumer. The problem is that investors want the company to put out more profits while making the same product with, in some cases, the same marketshare. So if your company is making one thing en masse, and everyone pretty much already has one and is satisfied etc, that's a dry market. No growth. No growth, no investors. No investors in public corporate speak and no money, no money, no company. The end result, companies have to keep cutting margins on old things especially if they have few new products, because they have to turn more and more profits. The model is flawed. Every cost must eventually be cut and that's why all major printer makers now follow this model.

Maybe it's just high-maintenance

Maybe the problem with the thing is that it takes significant maintenance support. Xerox copiers and printers back in the selenium drum era were leased, because they cost so much and required considerable skilled maintenance. If this new technology has that problem, a lease-only approach at introduction makes sense.

Competition Comes from Older Models

I'd be willing to bet that they have it in mind to avoid the competition to future models that this model represents.

For example, I'd have a quite nice office class networked, duplexing, HP laserjet 4si printer nestled under my desk at home. It's a 200lb beast that keeps on printing. The $100 cartridges last a year. I got it for $200 off ebay and $50 for a service kit. To buy something similar new would cost me $4-$5k. I expect that it will keep going for years.

Just as test equipment manufacturers know about their old scopes, HP knows that one of it's biggest competitors is not other printer manufacturers, but the installed base of high quality, high reliability, maintainable workhorse printers they sold in the past.

Leasing printing services rather than selling printers means they never suffer from this new model surviving 15 years down the road, competing with their new new model.

Good riddance

Ever since the Engineers were forced out (early retirement/riffed) and replaced by people who didn't know or work under Bill or Dave, HP's products have sucked.

Their calculators have become a laughing stock. The lucky folks who still have a functional 12c from the days of old (early 80s) will enjoy them for decades more to come. I'd sooner use a bag of rocks than a 12c built during/after the Lewis Platt (successor: Carly) regime.

While this announcement is for a business printer, expect this trend to continue. Cheap printers are a commodity, so squeezing pennies out of the market will eventually lead to "virtual printers" or somesuch idiocy. Smart people are willing to pay for quality, someone just needs to offer a quality printer.

HP isn't the company to do it. Not any more.

Flamebait summary...

Everything in the summary is based on info in TFA, notably EXCEPT that:

Edgeline technology is said to be so ink-efficient that if HP were to sell these printers, they would never match the money they make from consumables (cartridges etc) now."

TFA didn't say that, and I don't see any source for it. What TFA did say was that it will "lower colour operating costs by up to 30 percent".

30% isn't exactly enough to make inkjet cartridge sales worthless, now is it?

Gee, No.

I want a print-out of something so I can mark it up, scribble, etc. If I want the level of quality this thing suggests, I'll take it to a bureau and get it professionally printed and bound.

It also reminds me of an office I worked in back-in-the-day where the copier had an odometer and Xerox charged based on the monthly count; it was cheaper to have a typist re-type the one page or two page document 3 or 4 times. If we needed a lot of copies, which wasn't often, we might take it to the local Kinkos, depending on what we wanted. Xerox eventually canceled the contract because it was more expensive to send a guy to read the meter than what they were billing. Funny thing is, they let us keep the copier.

Xerox Document Center already does this...

Xerox has a system that charges businesses per page... It's called their document center, we have one where I work... and you don't own the printers, etc... and you get yelled at by the boss if you print anything in color... Imo, This is really just HP attempting to play catchup. --Ray

Not news

So HP is getting into the market that Canon and Xerox and Lexmark and Toshiba and Kyocera and Sharp and and and are already in? I suppose the interesting deal is that HP would be doing the printer leasing direct from the factory instead of having a local leasing and servicing middleman do it. But it's not like the business model is revolutionary.

What's the big deal, nothing new here

I really don't understand the objection to this. Anyone who works with printers these days knows that this is already a standard business model for companies like Xerox, Minolta, etc. who sell laser printer/scanner/copiers and charge per page. the per page cost usually includes toner, maintenance, service, and it's usually very reasonable. I've seen per page contracts as low as .3 cents a page. HP finally caught up with the bandwagon. and is trying to jump on. This isn't new, this isn't revolutionary, the only thing revolutionary about this printer is the method of printing. which i don't know if it will have a big market. It'd have to be competitive to our colour laser Minolta... in both price and performance/quality.

This may just be a touch of sensationalism...

"Edgeline technology is said to be so ink-efficient that if HP were to sell these printers, they would never match the money they make from consumables (cartridges etc) now."

Got a link for this? I fail to see how an ink-efficient printer would affect their current business model. If anything it would improve their margins. Let's say the edgeline uses 50% less ink than other printers, simply put 50% less ink in the edgeline cartridges and charge the same price for them, problem solved.

I think we're all aware that current pricing structures for printer cartridges is a joke, it has little or no basis in what the cartridges actually cost to manufacture, so it's not like an edgeline printer would be some disruptive force in the marketplace.

Why? Simple

The OfficeJet 6310 has SEVEN HUNDRED FIFTY MEGABYTES of support software for it. It installs a DOZEN or more drivers on your machine, some of which appear to PORT SCAN the ENTIRE PORT RANGE OVER AND OVER, with others that will peg your CPU at 100%.

Obviously this new line of HP junk has so much crap associated with it that it can't even fit on a DVD, so they have to sell it as a managed service since no ordinary IT user could possibly control this POS.

I can no longer recommend HP to anyone. Buy Epson, folks. HP is done. Put a fork in it.

Re:If selling ink doesn't work, how about the prin

All printers are sold at a loss. Money is made on ink cartridges. This decision just carries it to the logical extreme.

Re:And this is....

Why free enterprise DOES work:

Another company will come out with a similarly efficient printer that they WILL sell, and HP won't get squat.

I respectfully disagree

HP is allowed to sell their goods any way they wish. That is capitalism at work.

The catch is, so are their competitors.

How long before you see a Lexmark with this exact same technology at work? Do you think they'll go on a services model? Do you think absolutely everyone in the market will? Even the guys in China?

And when someone finally does start selling the same printer technology rather than leasing it, what will HP have to do to keep up?

Re:And this is....

The only thing I don't own outright are my home (I rent) and my car (until I pay it off). And, as far as those go, ownership is 90% posession, so I at I own 90% percent :)

Capitalism is a system based on the base greed of men (and women). It's not "work hard and see reward"; it's "you want something, you work to get it".

Re:If selling ink doesn't work, how about the prin

Because most people won't bother to search out the cost per page printed over the life of the printer. They'll see one printer for $599 and one for $1599 and buy the cheap one. It's the same principle as the "Bad security products drive out good security products" story that posted a couple hours ago.