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Amazon Rainforest Plots Sold via Facebook Marketplace Ads (bbc.com) 75

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
Parts of Brazil's Amazon rainforest are being illegally sold on Facebook, the BBC is reporting. From the report: The protected areas include national forests and land reserved for indigenous peoples. Some of the plots listed via Facebook's classified ads service are as large as 1,000 football pitches. Facebook said it was "ready to work with local authorities", but indicated it would not take independent action of its own to halt the trade. "Our commerce policies require buyers and sellers to comply with laws and regulations," the Californian tech firm added. The leader of one of the indigenous communities affected has urged the tech firm to do more. And campaigners have claimed the country's government is unwilling to halt the sales. "The land invaders feel very empowered to the point that they are not ashamed of going on Facebook to make illegal land deals," said Ivaneide Bandeira, head of environmental NGO Kaninde.
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Amazon Rainforest Plots Sold via Facebook Marketplace Ads More

Amazon Rainforest Plots Sold via Facebook Marketplace Ads

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  • buying Amazon rainforest, sight unseen, on FB? (Score:3)

    by Bearhouse ( 1034238 ) on Saturday February 27, 2021 @05:39AM (#61105146)

    Interested in this nice bridge I got?

    • Interested in this nice bridge I got?

      You act as if Facebook, conveys intelligence.

    • Re: buying Amazon rainforest, sight unseen, on FB? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by nazsco ( 695026 ) on Saturday February 27, 2021 @06:37AM (#61105194) Journal

      this is not craigslist scamming rich teenagers in san jose. The seller already killed or scared the indians, and now facebook is just to find the buyer, who is paying exactly for the privilege of someone dealing with the indians. nobody is paying for the land, the land everyone knows is free.

      But good that you can live such a sheltered life in your suburbs that you think the worse can happen is some schmuch losing money over a too good to be true deal. sadly facebook and other companies are global monopolies run by people like you.

      • this is not craigslist scamming rich teenagers in san jose. The seller already killed or scared the indians, and now facebook is just to find the buyer, who is paying exactly for the privilege of someone dealing with the indians. nobody is paying for the land, the land everyone knows is free.

        But good that you can live such a sheltered life in your suburbs that you think the worse can happen is some schmuch losing money over a too good to be true deal. sadly facebook and other companies are global monopolies run by people like you.

        You seriously think that the problem in all this is Facebook?

    • Re: buying Amazon rainforest, sight unseen, on FB? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by orlanz ( 882574 ) on Saturday February 27, 2021 @09:17AM (#61105412)

      I think the natives are missing a good opportunity here. Rather than run to FB and hoping they care, they should leverage this to provide exposure on the international scene. The natives' real problem is that their government and their country don't care about their plight.

      Leverage FB and show the world how two faced these "guardians" are. There are enough caring people in the world who will put the political pressure to possibly change things. Asking FB to do something just pushes the problem down the road and into the shadows.

      • Who is supposed to do what? Practically uncontacted Amazonian Tribe wipes out their ancient enemy newborns and sells their land on Facebook. What do you want? To have Brazil march a bunch of troops into the Amazon to conquer these tribes and forcibly relocate them to somewhere they can all die from the common cold?

    • Interested in this nice bridge I got?

      A Darién Gap bridge, I presume?

    • Some of the plots listed via Facebook's classified ads service are as large as 1,000 football pitches.

      ... and contain enough timber/paper pulp equivalent to fill five Libraries of Congress, with the catchment area of a hundred olympic-size swimmng pools.

      OK, done. What do I win?

  • How large is a football pitch? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Mr. Dollar Ton ( 5495648 ) on Saturday February 27, 2021 @05:48AM (#61105162)

    Can't we have actual size instead of your favorite meaningless comparison? Since 1 football pitch is 0.714ha (105 by 68 meters), 1000 of those would be 714 ha. Simple, easy to imagine, precise.

    • Or approximately 852 Libraries of Congress...

    • Yeah football pitches are non standard. But Americans don't speak metric. We need a measurement that is common to everyone. I propose 5.8524590163934426229508196721311e-8 x the surface area of the earth. That's common to all of us since we're standing on it.

      • The metric system (an offshoot of the French Revolution; they also reset the calendar to year zero, which didn't work out as well) was supposed to be based on an exact measurement of the circumference of the earth, but the measurements were off.

        It's just another arbitrary convention, mostly based on us having ten fingers.

        • The metric system (an offshoot of the French Revolution; they also reset the calendar to year zero, which didn't work out as well) was supposed to be based on an exact measurement of the circumference of the earth, but the measurements were off.

          It's just another arbitrary convention, mostly based on us having ten fingers.

          And the bedrock of the Metric system - the meter - or metre - is determined by a fraction.

          And why aren't we all using metric time as well?

          • Any arbitrary system that everybody agrees to is acceptable. That 'acceptance' comes in the form of things like metal tooling, though, not some intellectual's decree.

            Are we really going to obsolete things like every "6-32" bolt and threaded hole because some egghead says so?

            • Any arbitrary system that everybody agrees to is acceptable. That 'acceptance' comes in the form of things like metal tooling, though, not some intellectual's decree.

              Are we really going to obsolete things like every "6-32" bolt and threaded hole because some egghead says so?

              I certainly wouldn't change an entire production system. I feel a riidiculate rant coming on - not at you, but I just can't resist.

              The entire kerfuffle to me is just more trolling fun for me than anything else. I just came from a NWS seminar where everything was in metric units other than when they used knots. I listened, I understood, and I could mentally adapt if they used imperial units. No big deal to me.

              But they are indeed involved in measurementcrime. What exactly in the name of Satan's unholy

      • We are taught the metric system, at least they were teaching it in the 80's. Who knows what kids are taught these days.

        We know metric better than football pitches, but leave it up to the British to choose something NO ONE UNDERSTANDS.

        • We are taught the metric system, at least they were teaching it in the 80's. Who knows what kids are taught these days.

          It's just an odd way for the Europeans to allow themselves to feel superior.

          Meanwhile, in my workshop, I have metric equipment that I can and do use to turn out imperial pieces. Even stuff with metric one side, imperial on the other.

          • Even stuff with metric one side, imperial on the other.

            You monster.

            • Even stuff with metric one side, imperial on the other.

              You monster.

              Yes indeed! Doesn't happen too often, but when ya gotta, ya gotta.

          • It's just an odd way for the Europeans to allow themselves to feel superior.

            I always thought the opposite, with Americans being the one doing advanced engineering mathematics to try and figure out how many feet are in 2 miles. And don't get me started on the division you do just trying to find the correct allen key.

            • It's just an odd way for the Europeans to allow themselves to feel superior.

              I always thought the opposite, with Americans being the one doing advanced engineering mathematics to try and figure out how many feet are in 2 miles. And don't get me started on the division you do just trying to find the correct allen key.

              We're always getting our chops busted for not conforming to the "superior" system. But we already do use metric for just about everything. I can't remember the last time I had an imperial measurement vehicle, and metric is in most things here.

              Yes, we do use miles, and yards and feet and inches. But we use millimeters and kilometers as well. Just whatever seems handy at the time.

              Why dis? As a WAG, the huge industrialization during WW2 that we had introduced a lot of long lasting machinery that was in t

              • Need metric? fine, Need imperial, fine. Which is probably why we look at the argument as moot

                I mean the argument is nothing more than a reflection on how pointless it is to buy double the tools and how frequency mistakes get made due to silly units. You seem to think this is about "superior" or not superior. The reality is it's just about being easier, cheaper, and less confusing to follow one standard rather than too.

                ooh a nut. Grabs wrench set. 5mm.. too small. 6mm too large.. FUCK goes and grabs that *other* wrench set.

                • Need metric? fine, Need imperial, fine. Which is probably why we look at the argument as moot

                  I mean the argument is nothing more than a reflection on how pointless it is to buy double the tools and how frequency mistakes get made due to silly units. You seem to think this is about "superior" or not superior. The reality is it's just about being easier, cheaper, and less confusing to follow one standard rather than too.

                  Sure - but here's the problem. Metric is just one more arbitrary measurement system, the definition of which is made by defined as the length of the path travelled by light in a vacuum in 1/299,792,458 of a second.

                  And the litre is based on the stère, an obsolete measurement of firewood displacement.

                  So - what gives metricphiles the right to demand others adopt their very arbitrary system?

                  It would make more sense to change everyone's system, rather than act like metric is the alpha and omega. T

                  • Re: (Score:2)

                    by fazig ( 2909523 )
                    That's more of a nitpicking problem, actually.

                    The advantage of metric is that you don't need a lot of math to do the conversions, because conversion is consistently done using the a single unified number base (10 in this case).
                    Now here I'd like to point out that base 10 has nothing that makes it intrinsically special. We probably do it because we have 10 fingers, which some people use for counting and doing simple math. But being a university graduated electric engineer, in digital logic classes they mad

        • but leave it up to the British to choose something NO ONE UNDERSTANDS.

          Just an example of the superior intellect of the British. Sorts out the wheat from the chaff because after all you can't manage to rule over 1/4 of the population of the planet and 20% of it's landmass with a country with a population of less than 40m if you're stupid.

      • Yeah football pitches are non standard. But Americans don't speak metric. We need a measurement that is common to everyone. I propose 5.8524590163934426229508196721311e-8 x the surface area of the earth. That's common to all of us since we're standing on it.

        They referred to football pitches. So they were referring to soccer and Europeans. We he in 'Murrica refer to the American version of football as played on a field, and occasionally a gridiron.

    • The size of the pitch is based on whoever is pitching the football, right?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Alumoi ( 1321661 )

      https://www.theregister.com/De... [theregister.com]
      Don't thank me, it's just the standard civilized people use.

  • Block and they'll just move elsewhere (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Better to keep them on facebook and find out everything you can about that organisation pending going to war with it.

  • Blood Diamonds (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ytene ( 4376651 ) on Saturday February 27, 2021 @07:12AM (#61105232)
    "Blood Diamonds" are defined as diamonds mined in a war zone and sold to finance the conflict. This term is used specifically to highlight the negative consequences of the trade in diamonds from certain parts of the world. Respectable gemstone traders simply won't touch blood diamonds.

    What Facebook are doing here is to make money from the destruction of the rain forest - the same sort of concept as dealing in blood diamonds. You can't expect us to believe that Facebook don't "police" their advertisements - for example I'm pretty sure that you won't find advertisements on Facebook for Class-A drugs, prostitution or "Assassination-as-a-Service". So what we need to conclude from this is that Facebook are knowingly and willingly complicit in the destruction of the rain forest.

    Under Bolsonaro, the destruction of the rain forest has accelerated to an alarming degree. In the 7 months from when Bolsonaro took office in January 2019 to July 2019, more than 1,330 square miles of rain forest were lost [nytimes.com].

    The only way to tackle this is for the international community to apply the same sort of economic sanctions on Brazil that have been applied elsewhere - like with the trade in ivory or blood diamonds. Bolsanaro is destroying the Amazon because he thinks it is holding back economic growth and prosperity. But if the world showed him that if he destroys the Amazon, Brazil's economic prosperity will be harmed, he would stop.

    Meanwhile, something the US could do would be to enact some environmental protection laws that make the sorts of advertisements Facebook is taking money for illegal. And maybe encourage people to use Facebook to organize plenty of protests about what they are allowing. That might get their attention.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      > What Facebook are doing here is to make money from the destruction of the rain forest - the same sort of concept as dealing in blood diamonds. You can't expect us to believe that Facebook don't "police" their advertisements

      It's worse than that, they've flat out said they won't act in this case despite being notified of it. So whether this is fraud, or real criminal destruction, Facebook has now formally admitted that it's willing to support and facilitate either fraudulent or criminal sales.

      It's pretty

      • I doubt it's anything like that. They know what is "illegal" in this country. And it's not what is written in the books. It's what's being enforced. Other businesses do the same in the US too, just look at "hate speech" or "providing a corroboration platform to commit sedition"; there is no legal backing that makes either illegal.

        So when Trump was in office, it was allowed because removing it means a backlash and restrictions from the government. The minute people knew he was out, having it would cause back

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I basically agree with you, but with a caveat.

      This is very little like blood diamonds. Blood diamonds are diamonds mined by the natives outside the control of the diamond cartel. Sure, some of the money goes to finance jungle terrorists, but most of it goes to survival food and shelter of the miners.
      The ONLY reason "reputable jewelers" avoid so-called blood diamonds is they want prices to stay high, and they don't want to get cut off from their cartel.
      The cartel is not on the side of good people; it's a b

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ytene ( 4376651 )
        That's fair.

        You can probably see that I was looking for an equivalent that is something most of us have heard of and that most of us can understand why the practice is not supported in the west.

        What Bolsonaro is doing is to help his crony elite to destroy not just one of the wonders of the world but, perhaps, the long-term source of much of Brazil's future wealth. Who knows how many drugs might be found in plants or animals that remain unknown to our science that are being taken to extinction by the s
  • These are the sort I people I trust as society's def facto arbiter of truth....

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      A friend got banned the other day from Facebook for calling someone a cunt on a public discussion, and I've had another friend get her posts removed because she was breast feeding a new born.

      I love how if you carry out genocide as happened in Burma, incite terrorist attacks, or carry out scams then you're typically allowed to stay on the platform, but if you call someone a bad word or show a tiny bit of side boob whilst feeding your child then it's off you go...

      Pretty clear that Zuckerberg does in fact beli

  • WTF people? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by misnohmer ( 1636461 ) on Saturday February 27, 2021 @08:44AM (#61105352)

    If the land sales are illegal, then whoever buys them gets scammed. Why are the legal owners of the land concerned? Perhaps people shelling out for land the seller has no right to sell might have an issue. If the sale is in fact legal as far as Brazilian law, then the problem is in Brazil and not FB, which is purely the advertising media. Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot people, what am I missing? If I am trying to sell the White House, or the Brooklyn Bridge (to which I have absolutely zero property rights), is it FB responsibility to stop it?

    PS> Full disclosure, I particularly dislike FB and what they stand for, I would not work for them as long as I have that choice (was once recruited by them, politely turned them down), never had FB account and don't plan on having one, but come on, WTF people?

    • Re:WTF people? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Entrope ( 68843 ) on Saturday February 27, 2021 @09:06AM (#61105376) Homepage

      You don't need clear title to clear-cut land or plant crops on it. You just need the previous owners or occupants cleared out. That seems to be what is happening here: Party A uses violent means to remove anyone who would object, then purports to sell the newly empty land to Party B.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by misnohmer ( 1636461 )

        Both Party A and Party B are trespassing. Again, the problem seem to be Brazilian law enforcement, not FB. If someone on FB sold you the White House, what do you think would happen if they tired removing current occupants, or if you tried to demolish the white house to plant crops on its property? I hate defending FB, but they are just the advertising media here, no different than newspaper classifieds.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Entrope ( 68843 )

          I disagree. The difference between Facebook and newspaper classifieds is that Facebook has been notified that this is a relatively widespread problem, and continues to run these advertisements (for illegal transactions).

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dafradu ( 868234 )

          Only that you need to imagine that the White House was already occupied in a successful coup and the new occupants are using facebook to sell itens or the whole property. Why is facebook accepting adds for illegal/stolen goods in the first place???

        • If Trump said he won the election and Maga hat Trump supporters showed up to evict Biden, what happens? Whoever has the most guns wins. Brazilian crimelord sends in his men to clear the land and use it, and has a deed showing him the owner. So long as the government ignores him he wins.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

          Facebook are facilitating crime by helping to sell stolen property, the fuckers should be prosecuted criminally under RICO. Imprison that Zuckerberg cunt now.

      • Some would argue that it is how land in the United States was 'developed' and that it's hypocrisy for westerners to now claim that third worlders shouldn't be allowed to develop in the same fashion.

        (Neo-redbaiters can then bring up whataboutism or any of their other 'isms' to rail on about)

    • What you're missing is that the people exercising power in Brazil don't respect Brazilian law. As long as the land belongs to an Amazonian tribe and not moneyed interests, you can pay the authorities (that's where the sale comes in) to look the other way while you have your way with the land. [youtube.com] If the tribes resist, they end up dead. They don't even keep it particularly secret.

      • How is the lawlessness and corruption in Brazil a responsibility of Facebook to solve? Perhaps WhatsApp messages are used to facilitate those bribes or other corruption exploits. Is the suggested solution here that FB block Brazil users and anyone talking about Brazil (could be an ad posted in USA about Brazilian land). Geo IP block and filter anything with the work Brazil in it? Then add any other words people start using instead ("land for sale in Brazi1", or "land for sale in largest south american count

        • It's not their responsibility, and furthermore it's outside of their control. Just more empty posturing so the Zuck gets to say "Look how responsible we are." As for the Facebook Troopers? They can knock all they want, but I'm not opening. I already have what I want from them: Nothing.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by ebvwfbw ( 864834 )

      I can't imagine people are going to actually go to their land. It's a scam to get stupid people to feel better about themselves. Hey look I own some rain forest. I'll never sell!
      They can put that next to the Star they named, next to the land on the Moon they bought. Same people probably also have bitcoin they can't remember the password to.

  • So many holes in this story (Score:4, Informative)

    by argStyopa ( 232550 ) on Saturday February 27, 2021 @09:18AM (#61105414) Journal

    "Many of the sellers openly admit they do not have a land title, the only document which proves ownership of land under Brazilian law. "
    So...why would someone spend money buying something from someone who doesn't have proof of ownership? If you really wanted the land and don't give a shit about things like a title...you could just go TAKE it, no?

    To say nothing of the fact that someone trying to sell something on this basis wouldn't take a rocket scientist to catch them, either.

    "A common strategy is to deforest the land and then plead with politicians to abolish its protected status, on the basis it no longer serves its original purpose."
    Sounds like your problem isn't facebook, but corrupt politicians. Maybe focus on that in your (alleged) democracy?

    I mean seriously, if someone said on slashdot "Hey, I've got a Brooklyn Bridge for sale" (with pictures! wow!) and let's say that someone was stupid enough to pay me for it.... would we really attack slashdot for 'enabling' such a sale?

    • Maybe this website isn't for you if you don't understand the difference between Facebook and Slashdot.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by nagora ( 177841 )

      "Many of the sellers openly admit they do not have a land title, the only document which proves ownership of land under Brazilian law. "
      So...why would someone spend money buying something from someone who doesn't have proof of ownership? If you really wanted the land and don't give a shit about things like a title...you could just go TAKE it, no?

      To say nothing of the fact that someone trying to sell something on this basis wouldn't take a rocket scientist to catch them, either.

      "A common strategy is to deforest the land and then plead with politicians to abolish its protected status, on the basis it no longer serves its original purpose."

      Join the dots: "It's all right, officer, I have this certificate of ownership. Oh? It's fake? What a terrible misfortune. Still, I'm the victim here - I paid money for that. Well, the damage is done so I guess I might as well start farming, yes?"

      The buyer is buying deniability; they don't give a fuck whether the certificate is real or not.

      Sounds like your problem isn't facebook, but corrupt politicians.

      No problem blaming both.

  • So if there are people willing to buy illegal land, why donâ(TM)t the indigenous tribes âoesellâ these lands themselves and after the money is received, not provide legitimate title? Seems a good way to drain resources from your enemy. The same thing can be done for endangered species trade.

    • The land is being sold on Facebook Marketplace. It definably is the indigenous tribes selling it. Facebook has some scam in place where a bunch of poor third worlders have mobile phones with access to Facebook and nothing else. That is why this land is on Facebook, because some Amazonians got access to one one of these FB phones are trying to figure out how to make money so they can buy alcohol and guns.

      • That is why this land is on Facebook, because some Amazonians got access to one one of these FB phones are trying to figure out how to make money so they can buy alcohol and guns.

        And Trump complains about refugees. With habits like that, they're already Americans!

  • "ready to work with local authorities", but indicated it would not take independent action of its own to halt the trade.

    Because all of the "moderators" are busy looking for people doubting election-fairness [cnbc.com], and cannot be reoriented to suppress actual crime.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

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