Uber Requires Nondisclosure Agreement Before Helping CarjackedDriver (themarkup.org) 86
An anonymous reader shares a report: Five months after he was carjacked while driving for Uber, resulting in thousands of dollars in damage to his car, David Morrow finally received an offer of assistance from the company: $1,000, the amount of his insurance deductible. But there was a catch -- Morrow would need to sign a nondisclosure agreement promising to not sue Uber, disparage the company, or talk any further about his carjacking or the details of his settlement. The offer came a day after The Markup approached Uber and Lyft about an investigation into more than 100 carjackings of ride-hail drivers, including the February attack on Morrow in Atlanta. But Morrow didn't take the offer. "I would be signing all my rights away," said Morrow, who's 71 and has completed almost 5,000 Uber rides. "I would have no recourse."
In 2018, Uber's chief legal officer, Tony West, announced the company was dropping the mandatory arbitration agreements and confidentiality provisions it had with drivers, riders, and employees for individual claims of sexual assault or harassment. Lyft quickly followed suit. But in the case of driver carjackings, both Uber and Lyft still appear to be using the tactic. The Markup is aware of a Lyft driver who signed a nondisclosure agreement after being carjacked.
In 2018, Uber's chief legal officer, Tony West, announced the company was dropping the mandatory arbitration agreements and confidentiality provisions it had with drivers, riders, and employees for individual claims of sexual assault or harassment. Lyft quickly followed suit. But in the case of driver carjackings, both Uber and Lyft still appear to be using the tactic. The Markup is aware of a Lyft driver who signed a nondisclosure agreement after being carjacked.
I don't know about your country (Score:4, Insightful)
But in mine, contracts signed under duress are null and void.
NDA (Score:4, Informative)
This wouldn't count as "under duress." He's free to sue and talk about them all he wants. If he want's the easy $1000, they want him to sign an NDA.
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Also, I expect that if one would sue Uber for their carjacking they would probably have little to stand on. Unless that car was jacked from the order of Uber, or that Uber told them to be at that location knowing that they will be jacked there.
Re:NDA (Score:5, Insightful)
I worked at a fast food restaurant where the owner kept the lobby open 24/7. They were robbed weekly. Eventually the cops warned the owner that since they knew the risks, knew how to mitigate them (close the lobby) and didn't do so that if somebody was injured they'd be liable.
Lobby was closed the next week.
Employers have a responsibility to create a safe working environment. In this case I'm just spitballing, but for example if there's a pattern of car jackings in the area then at a minimum Uber would be responsible for identifying that and providing safety training.
Oh wait, Uber's not an employer. They're an App. My bad. Isn't giving up all your rights as an employee fun?
Oh wait (Score:2)
I found this post to be informative and insightful on potential liability considerations of employers and even on how an entity can avoid the responsibilities of an employer.
The "oh wait" phrase, however, ought to be vested by now in a retirement plan.
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Biden official says otherwise. [arstechnica.com]
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Isn't giving up all your rights as an employee fun?
The couple dozen or so Uber drivers I've talked were fine not being a regular employee. Meaning, they can set whatever schedule they want, work as little or as much as they want, and work other jobs while still driving for Uber on the side. Almost all were ex-taxi drivers.
Anecdotal to be sure, but it was almost the exact same story in Boston, New York and Chicago.
That's largely because Taxi drivers (Score:5, Insightful)
While we're on the subject of anecdotes, every Uber driver I've had has been somebody laid off from a good or OK paying job who had a car left over from that job and was putting miles on it in exchange for enough money to pay rent that month. They weren't banking any money to cover maintenance because they needed every penny they were earning for rent. That basically meant that Uber was extracting the value from their cars. They knew this, but didn't have any options.
The best explanation of Uber I've ever heard is this: It's a Payday loan where the interest is the depreciation on your car.
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That basically meant that Uber was extracting the value from their cars. They knew this, but didn't have any options.
Which is bad, but not Uber's problem. Without Uber, they wouldn't be able to extract value from their cars at all.
But just because they've got it worse doesn't make what Uber is doing right.
It's not Uber's job to save everyone, it's their job to connect riders and drivers via an app. Nothing more. Even the vetting stuff should be done by the government, it's their job to ensure public safety. If you want to save people, create or join a charity, or vote for people who will make the government do its job.
Or we could, I don't know (Score:2)
You're right, it's not Uber's job to save people. It's their job to wring every drop of blood out of them they can for the glory and power of the Shareholders and the C-Levels. That's why we have labor laws. Because unchecked capitalism is feudalism with more steps.
Do you want to bend the knee to the king? Is that really how you want to live? Is trolling
One more thing (Score:2)
And if it's now, well, if Uber doesn't owe us anything we don't owe them anything, and we can take from them what we want.
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Sorry if I'm too right wing for you. I'm only a democratic socialist, not a leftist lunatic.
The job of private enterprises like Uber is to generate value through their products. That's what they're good at. If you want them doing charity instead, they wouldn't be able to generate value. This is why we have government and taxes. We take a share of the profit they generate, and provide for the things that they don't do well, like social programs, education, health care and law enforcement.
You're acting like t
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Given how hard self-driving cars are, Uber will likely be out of business before then. Nobody is going to keep funding them with no ROI for much longer.
Aside from the technical challenges, there's the huge legal issue of liability in an accident, especially if someone dies. Even if self-driving cars get to where they're safer than human drivers on average (and that's a big "if"), that's little consolation to a grieving family with a lawyer.
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Also see Fedex and USPS.
A viable public taxi/transit system is as much a public utility as water and electric. Letting private actors siphon off the profits is bad for everybody but Uber shareholders.
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Why not, many stores have gone through an open 24/7 phase where the employees were the only people in the store all night, or the grocery stores that must be open Thanksgiving day and sell an entire pack of brown 'n serve rolls. The teenagers manning the register know it's a loss but the MBAs seem clue impervious.
Re: NDA (Score:2)
Fast food restaurants costs don't come from the cost of materials. Electricity is mostly going to be a cost regardless of whether you're open or not. So, the marginal cost of staying open is mostly low-wage labor. As long as you sell enough sandwiches at night to cover the labor and not cannibalizing your day sales, you're doing pretty good. And as long as you take money out of the registers regularly, getting robbed every couple weeks won't be a prohibitive expense.
then as an 1099 I want to have an GUN / other tool (Score:2)
then as an 1099 I want to have an GUN / other tools and as an 1099 uber can't say no
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all he wants. If he want's
What I want is consistent apostrophe usage.
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Alway's ?
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Ju'st in ca'se, en'sure it''s preceding every 's. That way you're covering all the ba'se's.
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Alway's ?
In the interest's of consistencie's, ye's, it i's one of the requirement's, alway's.
What"s? (Score:2)
I dont know what your talk'ing about.
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This wouldn't count as "under duress." He's free to sue and talk about them all he wants. If he want's the easy $1000, they want him to sign an NDA.
Not sure about your country, but in mine a NDA can't override criminal codes, nor can you sign away your basic rights.
In fact NDA's are pretty unenforceable in entirety, but especially outside of financial agreements... and by financial agreements I mean legal business deals, not hush money. So he will be able to take the $1000 and talk, the reason they are trying to use the NDA is because they don't want to pay what he could actually get in a law suit.
Once again demonstrating that Uber are an organis
Re: NDA (Score:2)
Crooks with zero understanding of the law tend to get wiped out or go to prison quickly. Those two things aren't compatible with a successful business when they are found together.
Only if you can afford the lawyers (Score:2)
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Our System is built on Jury of peers (in many cases anyway).
Most people are persuaded by slick talking hucksters using fancy words and twisted logic. I wouldn't do well on a jury because I'd be "that's BS" most of the time a lawyer was talking. Trials are less about legal issues and more about who is better as psychological manipulation. Good Attorneys can make you sympathetic towards a kitten killer.
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But in mine, contracts signed under duress are null and void.
Applying a condition to a contract isn't duress.
I am genuinely curious (Score:2)
What do you see as the 'duress' here?
Typical (Score:5, Interesting)
In Uber's defense, it seems like he wasn't harmed. So, offering the deductible basically covers his out-of-pocket expenses. And, if they're going to write a check, yes, it's fair that he should agree not to go on an "I hate Uber" cross-country tour after getting their money.
On the other hand, he probably lost quite a bit of work while his car was being fixed. That should be covered. And, maybe a few extra dollars might be in order for getting a gun shoved in your face while you're at work?
Uber is lowballing the guy. He should set up a gofundme page and monetize a few social media videos about the incident. He'll make way more than a grand, I bet. I suspect Uber could have played this much smarter. 10k and this problem would probably have vanished. Now they get to deal with a PR shitshow. They probably don't care much, but whatever.
Re: Typical (Score:2)
Mental, emotional, and psychological harm comes from within.
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maybe a few extra dollars might be in order for getting a gun shoved in your face while you're at work?
Carjackings existed long before Uber came along. Why are they suddenly responsible for them?
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And, while I don't hate on Uber like a lot of people, no, they do NOT get a pass on this by classifying their people as "contractors" or whatever ot
Re: Typical (Score:2)
Contractors are expected to handle their own tax withholdings, accounting, and - yes - their own insurance. And that includes worker's comp insurance.
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Carjackings existed long before Uber came along. Why are they suddenly responsible for them?
Accidental death existed long before companies did as well. So why should we expect safe workplaces?
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What do you believe Uber should do to prevent car jackings
Prevent them? Nothing. But how about compensating drivers fairly the position of elevated risk they are put in as a result of working for Uber? I mean Uber places a fuckton of conditions on the car that an Uber driver is allowed to use. You can't have it both ways. Either the car is Uber's responsibility or not.
Re: Typical (Score:2)
Contractors are expected to properly price their services. It's not Uber's fault if the contractor doesn't ask for more money or bail out of the service.
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I'm amazed at how tone deaf your comment is. Yes contactors are expected to do that. Multiple courts have already ruled Uber drivers are not contractors precisely because they lack the ability to do what you say they should be doing.
You can't have it both ways.
Re: Typical (Score:2)
Well, they are not employees for precisely the reason that they set their own hours, choose where to work, and otherwise bear all the evidence of contractors.
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Well, they are not employees for precisely the reason that they set their own hours
Nope. That's not how that works. Flexible employee contracts exist and much of the modern service economy actually depends on such employees.
and otherwise bear all the evidence of contractors.
Yeah, except for all the evidence that matters. Listen random Slashdot person, you can say what you want. You're irrelevant. The courts decide this matter and a have in multiple cases in multiple jurisdictions disagreed with you (and Uber). And even if they *are* contractors, it doesn't make your comment any less tone deaf since Uber drivers cannot and have never been
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But how about compensating drivers fairly the position of elevated risk they are put in as a result of working for Uber?
What is the elevated risk? As I said previously, car-jackings have been around long before Uber. What evidence is there that Uber drivers are at a greater risk?
I mean Uber places a fuckton of conditions on the car that an Uber driver is allowed to use.
Have you actually ever looked at the conditions Uber places on vehicles? I just did, and you and I have a different definition of 'fuckton'.
- 15-year-old vehicle or newer
-4-door vehicle
-Good condition with no cosmetic damage
-No commercial branding
- Pass a vehicle inspection (this inspection is basically that all the common c
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Uber is just hoping that he will sign and make the problem go away.
In Uber's defense, it seems like he wasn't harmed. So, offering the deductible basically covers his out-of-pocket expenses. And, if they're going to write a check, yes, it's fair that he should agree not to go on an "I hate Uber" cross-country tour after getting their money.
If Uber gave him a nice check, and he then went on an "I hate Uber" tour, then Uber could publicize that fact and his tour would be a dud. I can understand why the company wants an NDA, but it doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do.
I don't know what the right answer is, but the massive corporation deciding what's fair, and the traumatized and temporarily out of work employee deciding whether to accept, is rarely going to result in a fair deal.
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Alas, classically it isn't. The legal term is "incidental damages" - damages caused to you because the thing isn't available. Practically every contract excludes incidental damages for obvious reasons since they include everything.
So if your provider accidentally cancels your account, they o
Has anyone considered (Score:4, Funny)
Suing the car jacker for the damage he has done? Probably not going to get much out of him, but a civil case is generally a slam dunk when there is already a criminal conviction.
Part of why Uber (and other ride sharing companies) wants their drivers as "independent contractors" rather than employees is then Uber can shirk any responsibilities for replacing damaged equipment or compensating injured employees.
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Agree about your right to carry ... but let's be honest. Uber never "requires" you go into bad parts of town. That's entirely your choice.... I refused to even turn the app on when I was anywhere near the bad parts of town, when I drove for them.
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Agree about your right to carry ... but let's be honest. Uber never "requires" you go into bad parts of town. That's entirely your choice.... .
They used to require it.
it wasn't called "firing"; it was called "retirement"...errr.. "deactivation".
That changed a while back, to better help Uber claim that they were not an employer.
However, drivers are still penalized for not accepting orders. But that algorithm is secret. It is somewhat fair in a "You don't want to accept jobs? OK. We just won't send you any" sort of way.
However, it is still the case that Uber does not inform the driver of the pickup or dropoff locations. An order comes in from Uber t
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Well, ok... but what I mean is, you can purposely drive into a safer area before you even start doing Uber, and unless they made more changes since I used it last year? The app didn't seem to stop offering me fares if I just let one "time out" here or there, when it wanted me to drive too far from where I was at. If anything, I think more drivers tend to grab up the ones offering higher payouts when they see that dollar figure pop up on the screen. But you can do really well doing 2-3x as many short trips
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That still leaves the destination as a mystery.
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Wow, the more I learn about Uber the less I like them. I've even thought about maybe doing a single ride on the way home from work for just a little extra cash, but the more stories I hear the less I want to even bother. The extra money won't really change things one way or the other but the potential downsides here sound terrible.
This post is moderated "Funny"? (Score:2)
Forget it, Jake, it's Slashdot.
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Have you ever seen the low life welfare queens that do carjackings? gonna sue their $300 shoes or iphone off them? their food stamp card?
Idea of suing them is ludicrous, you're hilarious and sheltered.
It's called an EBT card (Score:2)
What part of "not going to get much out of him" didn't explain same thing but in non-racist language?
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People still call it "food stamps" because there was a time when they were stamps, get used to it.
What about what I said was racist? I didn't even mention race of anyone. You have a chip on your shoulder and you got triggered by the truth.
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Sideways. With a rusty farm tool.
a thousand bucks? (Score:2)
The Uber attorneys must have performed some arithmetic to evaluate the cost of what is essentially a public settlement (NDA+non-disparagement+cash) vs the potential downside of not reimbursing the driver. What's surprising to me is that the cash involved is pretty small, relatively speaking.
It seems to me like the story would be worth way more in negative press than a thousand bucks, but maybe the Uber legal team has a much better idea of what the negative press is potentially worth.
Re: a thousand bucks? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Another interpretation is that Uber is engaging in a power move, deliberately doing the minimum to show drivers they have no individual power. If Uber were to treat drivers with dignity, they might get "uppity." This is where the narrative of hard work and frugality as a means of escaping poverty breaks down. Sure, some people will escape poverty through hard work and frugality. They are essential to the narrative of the American capitalist dream. But if too many people start doing that the ruling elite shift the equations to ensure there's always an exploitable working class living hand to mouth. This is constantly happening right under our noses as the capitalist class is hyper aware of every aggregated change in labor dynamics. They're constantly adjusting inflation rates, taxes, credit availability, food prices, rents. But not in a way that necessarily maximizes their short term monetary profits, but rather with solidarity to the capitalist class. The capitalist class are hyper aware of their class and they are loyal to their class, while the working class often times is oblivious and operate day to day in a state of confusing self doubt.
Lol. Yeah, we wouldn't want to make the slaves "uppity." (I know this is where you were going but others might want to look that up.) And maybe our supposed savior Joe Biden might look at what he's doing to inflation and food prices, which disproportionately strike the lower socioeconomic classes.
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You seem to think history begin in 2020. Newsflash: this began much, much earlier than that. Decades, even.
I can't find the article now (Score:2)
Is CarjackedDriver (Score:2)
one word or two? Do we have anyone that looks at posts before posting?
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That must be the name of their new app
Not sure I understand the issue here? (Score:3)
I drove for Uber for a while, and I wouldn't really expect them to compensate me for a carjacking, unless it was proven Uber hired the carjackers or something?
If I work from home and I lose my computer and networking gear due to a burglary, is my employer responsible for replacing all of it for me? I wouldn't think so, and that's even true if I'm a full-time hire for them.
This sounds like something you carry insurance for, and a ride-sharing service seems like it would only be liable for anything it offered in advance to insure for you?
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I drove for Uber for a while, and I wouldn't really expect them to compensate me for a carjacking, unless it was proven Uber hired the carjackers or something?
If I work from home and I lose my computer and networking gear due to a burglary, is my employer responsible for replacing all of it for me? I wouldn't think so, and that's even true if I'm a full-time hire for them.
This sounds like something you carry insurance for, and a ride-sharing service seems like it would only be liable for anything it offered in advance to insure for you?
I think it's that Morrow was somewhat offended that Uber thought his silence was only worth $1000--which probably netted him nothing, considering that he likely had to pay the deductible up front.
And, in your case, I think a better analogy would be if your system was hacked (and, say bank account hit) because your employer forced you to install some vulnerability-riddled, piece of shit software in order to continue working and they replaced your system but told you never to talk about their shit vetting an
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If I work from home and I lose my computer and networking gear due to a burglary, is my employer responsible for replacing all of it for me? I wouldn't think so, and that's even true if I'm a full-time hire for them.
Your employer requires you to furnish your own equipment?!?
I wouldn't work for such a company, that's crazy. They should be providing all the equipment for the job. And yes if someone breaks into the workplace and steals the equipment, the employer replaces it; not the employee.
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That's interesting. I work in the trades, and *most* of them require you to have your own tools. Your car mechanic probably paid as much for his tools as he did for his house. Certainly, I did. Because I own my tools, I can pick and choose my own jobs on the side as well as being a lot more competitive...
re: employer providing equipment (Score:2)
Actually, it's not uncommon at all, assuming you're doing work primarily in an office for an employer, but they allow you the convenience of optionally working from home a day or two a week.
You *might* opt to push for them to provide things like a spare monitor, keyboard, mouse or even a printer to go with the laptop you're able to take home with you as needed. But many people don't demand such things, in the interest of saving the company a few bucks and not having all that duplicate gear to deal with at
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Dumb question (Score:2)
"finally received an offer of assistance from the company: $1,000, the amount of his insurance deductible."
Do US car insurance companies pay AT ALL when you offer commercial services with your privately ensured car and shit happens?
In the EU they sure would not.
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It is possible this driver took the responsible route and actually paid for commercial insurance coverage for his car. It's not like you can't get this but that most drivers probably just skirt the issue assuming they won't ever need to put in a claim or can otherwise lie there way through it.
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Or they have a choice of eat and pay the rent or pay extra for commercial insurance. Just another way that being an Uber driver isn't sustainable.
Surprised the insurance company paid out (Score:2)
The article doesn't mention if he had this type of insurance.
Obligatory Heavy Metal reference (Score:2)
Uber needs to come up with that foot switch the cab driver in Heavy Metal used to fry unruly passengers.