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Amazon Warns Sellers Not To Gouge Users on Face Masks as Prices Skyrocket on Coronavirus Fears (gizmodo.com) 86

Posted by msmash from the in-the-public-interest dept.
Amazon is warning third-party sellers on its Marketplace platform not to gouge customers on protective face masks as the Wuhan coronavirus outbreak that originated in mainland China continues to spread internationally and becomes increasingly likely to hit the U.S. From a report: The effectiveness of the masks as a preventative measure against infection by the coronavirus, a novel virus called SARS-CoV-2 which causes a disease called COVID-19, is unclear. Proper handwashing and avoiding contact with infected individuals is probably more important, and the Centers for Disease Control isn't currently advising the general public wear masks. But prices for masks have tripled and in some cases quadrupled on Amazon, with Amazon telling some sellers that their listings are "not in compliance" with policies that ban price-gouging. Typically this policy is enforced during the holiday season when there are shortages of popular gifts, though price-gouging on Amazon during previous crises has been an issue (such as elevated prices for water before the impact of Hurricane Irma). Many states also have laws against raising prices of basic goods during emergencies, which the outbreak is after the feds declared a public health emergency last month.
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Amazon Warns Sellers Not To Gouge Users on Face Masks as Prices Skyrocket on Coronavirus Fears More

Amazon Warns Sellers Not To Gouge Users on Face Masks as Prices Skyrocket on Coronavirus Fears

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  • They had dispensers for face masks (free) all over the place.

    I asked if they had any Coronavirus cases, they said "not even one".

  • I've been following the 8210+ N-95 market for the last 24 hours.

    They're usually about $19.99 for a 20-pack at the big box stores:

    https://www.lowes.com/pd/3M-Particulate-Respirator-8210Plus-N95-20-Box/1002442120 [lowes.com]

    But then last night, they surged to $60 per 20-pack, and this morning, they're at $90 per 20-pack.

    https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=8210+plus+3m+pack+20&_sacat=0&_sop=15 [ebay.com]

    PRO-TIP: If you're in the trades, and you have to wear a particulate mask to earn a living, then start hoarding

  • Masks should be to protect others, not the wearer (Score:3, Informative)

    by bb_matt ( 5705262 ) on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @02:31PM (#59769892)

    It's been pretty much proven that the majority of masks don't act as a preventative measure for those who DON'T have a virus, but rather, are a preventative measure for those who do, to stop the spread.

    In other words, masks should be worn to protect other people from what YOU may have.

    There are exceptions - but the more advanced masks are exceptionally uncomfortable, hard to put on correctly and also, need to be handled extremely carefully.

    As always, trying to keep a distance from those showing visible signs of any sickness, washing your hands often and getting out of the habit of touching your face is pretty much the best prevention anyone can do.

    The face touching habit is a hard one to break - just observe a room full of people and watch how often people touch their faces - eyes, nose, mouth - with their hands.

    It is this which is the most prevalent method of disease spreading - touch a contaminated surface, touch your face.
    Arguably a mask is pointless is you touch an infected surface and then rub your eye with your fingers after.

    • Quite true. Those paper masks would do little to protect yourself. But if you have an air born illness it would catch a good number of the viruses.

      I work in healthcare we are required to get the flu shot unless of a medical reason where they are required to wear a mask. Not to stop the employee from catching the flu. But not to spread it to the patient if they do.

    • In other words, masks should be worn to protect other people from what YOU may have.

      Sort of like how vaccines protect others, especially vulnerable populations. But, just as with vaccines, voluntary compliance of sick people wearing face masks--in the US at least--just doesn't happen.

    • You think you're giving sound advice but you're not. If only the sick wear masks, the sick identify themselves for harassment. Now you've created a situation where no one wants to wear a mask, sick or not.

  • Supply and Demand (Score:5, Insightful)

    by alvinrod ( 889928 ) on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @02:36PM (#59769916)
    So-called price gouging is what keeps people from buying more than they really need and creating even more massive shortages. Obviously there are a lot more people buying face masks than they otherwise would typically purchase, which means that supplies are already depleted compared to what they typically might be. Without increasing prices, people will just make the problem even worse. Meanwhile rising prices are a signal to manufacturers that there's money to be made by ramping up their own production, which they'd otherwise not do because who wants face masks piling up in a warehouse.

    About the worst thing anyone can do, and I have no doubt someone will propose, is setting price caps, perhaps even below market prices in order to ensure that "everyone can have enough" which really just ensures no one will want to supply the item at all. Increased prices meanwhile even allow manufacturers who would not otherwise produce some item (because they could not do so profitably at market rates before the increase) to begin manufacturing it because it has now become profitable for them to do so.

    • I've lived in Nashville for 20 years now, and during that time we've had two gasoline shortages. Our gasoline comes from a dedicated pipeline from New Orleans. In each case, people have went nuts about "price gouging" and forcing gas stations to not overcharge for gasoline.

      The easily predicted effect is that everybody fills their cars up whether they need it or not, meaning that people who really *do* need it can't get it. I'd rather an ambulance have to pay $20/gallon and have gasoline available than to

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Ichijo ( 607641 )

        There ought to be two lines, one where they charge the normal price but you can only buy maybe 2 gallons and then you have to get back in line if you want more, and one line where they charge a higher price but you can buy as much as you want. This prevents hoarding and the gas station can't be accused of price gouging because they also sold it at the normal price.

        Those Amazon sellers who wish to engage in what Econ 101 dropouts call "price gouging" should simply go to eBay and sell everything at auction (n

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by hey! ( 33014 )

      High prices don't prevent people from buying things they don't need. They prevent *people of limited means* from buying things they don't need.

      The one thing that you can say is that they incentivize vendors to increase the quantity supplied to the market. When the price per mask hits $4.50 you get on to the phone to your Chinese supplier...

      Oh, wait.

      • They prevent *people of limited means* from buying things they don't need.

        No they don't, because if you really NEED something even people of limited means can get it, if it's just more expensive.

        Artificially low prices means that people of limited means cannot buy the thing at ANY PRICE, because people with greater means scooped up all available stock early because it was nothing to them to buy 100 of something they might need two of.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by hey! ( 33014 )

          One would begin doubt you ever knew anyone who struggled to meet the rent bill or put food on the table.

          In time, over a sustained crisis industry would inevitably churn out more masks. But even modern capitalism would be hard pressed to come up with, and distribute, tens of millions of N95 masks in a matter of months. In the meantime, people with lots of money and not much sense can be counted on to *naturally* drive up the price of the masks, even if "natural" here refers to human's natural state of ign

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by sjames ( 1099 )

          At some point, the only way a person of limited means can get the thing they need is at gunpoint. The only thing gouging changes is who they have to point the gun at.

          • At some point, the only way a person of limited means can get the thing they need is at gunpoint.

            We no longer have a TalmudVision in our humble abode, but back when we had a TalmudVision & a Cable-TalumdVision contract on our lives, that seemed to be the fundamental working hypothesis of the entire Walking Dead franchise: Nice guys always finish last, and survivors take what they need [even if that means murdering the nice guys in the process].

            PS: This is also of course why our elites don't want "pe

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Amazon could easily limit orders to one per account.

      That would be better since it would stop people with capital buying large numbers and selling them on eBay for even more.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by AHuxley ( 892839 )
        Re "stop people with capital buying large numbers".. people have the ability to do that when shopping if they want.
        If the gov of some nation wants to bulk buy and send out "one per" citizens then can.
        Until then people can buy what they want with their own money.
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • "Meanwhile rising prices are a signal to manufacturers that there's money to be made by ramping up their own production"

      However, there are cases where an increase in price in response to an economic shock won't lead to a meaningful increase in supply. The name for these cases is... price gouging. It is an actual economic concept.

      Pretending that all markets are in equilibrium doesn't make you insightful.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sjames ( 1099 )

      On the other hand, in many places, jacking up the price like that is a crime.

      If the price doesn't get jacked up, manufacturers will still happily crank out more because they like sales and the orders are rolling in. If they're smart, they're not going to build new facilities no matter how high the price goes since by the time they might go into service, prices and demand will be back to what they were before and ROI will go out the window..

      Note that there is a difference between a reasonable rise in price

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by atisss ( 1661313 )

      You can't have new manufacturers entering market that fast, as new products need to be certified and tested.

  • Oh seriously stop with the face masks (Score:3, Informative)

    by WillAffleckUW ( 858324 ) on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @02:43PM (#59769952) Homepage Journal

    Face masks won't work as protection for you.

    They only work as protection for others IF YOU ARE ALREADY INFECTED, but you shouldn't be in public anyway.

    Stop it with the face masks. Just wash your hands with bar soap and water - not anti-biotic as it's a virus so anti-biotic soaps just breed superbugs and don't help.

    If you get a temperature or symptoms, stop going into public areas. Contact your local health authorities.

    • N95 masks do work to protect you, assuming they are properly fitted and you don't touch your face. I work in clinical healthcare and I often wear them.
      • N95 NIOSH masks [cdc.gov] filter 95% of all particulates down to 0.3 microns; the coronavirus is about 125 nm in diameter [kenyon.edu], about 40% of the size of what an N95 mask will filter. Meaning that it will pass right through, if it's airborne.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward
          I believe the thinking is that loose virions are particularly unlikely to be floating through the air; rather, they'll be suspended in droplets of liquid that were previously expelled from a creature, and those should generally be large enough.

        • You're not the first person to make this mistake. We had a whole argument about it in the last Covid discussion. For a virus, airborne means that the virus is attached to a dust particle or is in an evaporated fluid droplet. The size of the virus is irrelevant. What matters is whether it can live in a fluid droplet or on a dust particle that the mask can't filter.

          • And when that droplet reaches the filter - it is free to migrate around, too. And bypass the filter. Much like a parachute can deliver you to a skylight in a building; the parachute may not fit through, but the parachutist very well may, and once they are through, if they detach from the parachute, they are in the building.
            • Your claim sounds rather specious to me. Can you back it with evidence? Those moisture particles are it's support environment. To separate the two would be like removing the oxygen from the room. You're not going to last long.
      • How does a mask that's properly fitted *not* touch your face?!?
  • I kind of wish this would cause a demand spike for PAPRs and make them cheaper; they're a lot more comfortable to wear for long periods than unpowered respirators but a bit pricey for DIY hobbyist stuff.

  • Standard masks designed for the sick, not healthy. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gurps_npc ( 621217 ) on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @02:54PM (#59770012) Homepage

    The standard mask is designed to catch the spittle and exhaled viruses from a sick person. They are NOT air tight and exposure to air breathed by a sick person not wearing a mask will infect you if all you are wearing is a standard mask.

    If you want to protect yourself from sick people, rather than protect healthy people from you, you need a:

    fit-tested respirator

    The fit testing ensures it is air tight and you won't breathe in viruses:

    https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/sa... [3m.com]

    • And you also need to not have facial hair under the edge of the mask. If you do have such hair, then you need a constant flow (positive pressure) air supply hood.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by skids ( 119237 )

      More importantly, they aren't designed to protect against gouging. So the sellers might as well just go for the eyes.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      A simple mask will prevent the majority of airborne virus from getting to your face and the main orifices on it. That decreases the chance you will be infected.

  • Masks give people a false sense of security, but they are useful up to a point. You should wash your hands frequently. Keep your distance from people. Try not to touch your face with your hands. Masks are actually better for those already infected to help them to keep from spreading it. I went to four pharmacies yesterday and not one of them had masks. I guess I'll buy some kerchiefs and make my own masks if I need some.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Ranger ( 1783 )
      Also, even if you can find masks for a reasonable price on Amazon, the delivery waiting times are a month or more. You should prepare for a pandemic, stock up on non-perishable food, toilet paper, cough and cold medicines. Disaster preparedness is always a good thing. Prepare for the worst. Hope for the best.

  • This is insane (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I have a friend of mine who's daughter has Leukemia and is having chemo treatments. She needs these N95 masks to avoid infection but can't be found anywhere. So the fear crazy idiots gobbling up these masks are causing a shortage for those who needs them. Shame.

    • Sort of blame the victim and I apologize for this already - but why doesn't your friend just have a ton of those masks already ?

      • How many rolls of toilet paper do you keep on hand? How long would you last if retail supply dried up?
        • I buy consumables that have a long shelf life in bulk. So long as you have ample storage space it makes sense to both save money and ensure you can weather storms. When Hurricane Isabel rolled through the mid-Atlantic I had enough necessities to get me through 17 days without electricity, which also left me without running water since I was in a rural area where wells were primarily used. The only reasons not to do so would be a lack of storage space or that you can't afford to spend a little more money
        • Depending on how far I've gone through the 20 pack, well, between 22 and 2.

    • She should be wearing a silicone respirator with P100 cartridges anyway. The paper masks are of questionable effectiveness. Yes even the N95 and N99 ones. Paper does not form a very good seal with the skin on your face.

  • I checked Amazon prices on specific item (hearing protector) and find the price at $18.99.
    Good price.
    Then I log into my Amazon account and the price is now $19.97.
    Not so good a prince (IMHO).
    Amazon price-gouges as a Business Practice!
    Why is Bezos getting his panties in a wad?
    • If your feeling lazy, leave it in your cart for a day or two without buying. Suddenly it will be “on sale”. Or just try the right combination of browser and IP address, add it to your cart, then log in.
  • I saw a single N95 mask just last night on Amazon for over $220. What were they saying again?

  • ER price is like X1000 amazon price any ways!

  • Here is a published paper comparing surgical masks vs. respirators for virus protection [sciencedaily.com].

    Short version: no difference between surgical masks and N95 type respirators.

    Another article on the CDC not recommending people wear masks in public areas [mayoclinic.org].

    Washing your hand and avoiding contact with other infected people are still the best ways to prevent you being infected.

    • Respirators is not really the correct term. The study compaired surgical masks with N95 masks and found them both ineffective at preventing respiratory infections in a hospital environment. No one knows why.

      For now the best bet at not breathing in Wuhan is to wear a silicone respirator with P100 filters or if you can afford it a PAPR positive pressure hood with a belt mounted fan driven HEPA/P100 filter.

      As far as washing your hands and not touching your face isn't that obvious? I mean duh.

  • A generally more useful product that gets rid of a more direct and severe threat is hand sanitizer. It's incredibly easy to make isopropyl alcohol, luckily. And it seems every store has it in stock because many manufacturers make it.
  • If you set the price too low, you will run out of supply and people will think your product is cheap.

    Amazon is just virtue signaling and doesn't care about anyone.

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