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we certainly believe
Now that is what I call evidence. They are pretty sure so it must be true. Glad we have that all cleared up. I don't have a horse in this race, but these arguments are ridiculous. If the government wants to release actual evidence they can, but until or unless they do there is no evidence. Just because the government claims something doesn't make it true. And they don't have to be lying. They could just be mistaken.
This seems obvious to me, but I haven't seen it mentioned here. Most science fiction authors cannot create elegant and beautiful prose. So no they don't deserve awards for writing elegant and beautiful prose.
Iain Banks and Neal Stephenson are really the only examples I can think of. Nearly everyone else just writes simple and mostly uninteresting prose and a lot of popular science fiction authors are worse than that. Most have trouble composing sentences that don't strike one as clumsy constructions. Some have interesting plots and interesting characters but it just doesn't have the poetic beauty of truly great writing.
I think it also needs to be mentioned that not everyone can actually recognize beautiful writing for what it is. They can't see it. I'm not sure why. To those people there just isn't any difference. I guess it's sort of like being a non-native speaker. Others just don't care if the writing is beautiful or not.
Science fiction is my favorite sort of fiction, but I recognize that almost none of it, deserves a literary award.
Btw 'getting your ass kicked' seems to imply that it was some kind of fair fight and I lost it. Are you really thinking of it as a fight? Not that I don't think he could have won in a fair fight. He was like 6' 3" 250 lbs and had at least some fighting and combat experience and I was a 5' 6" 140 lb geek with almost no fighting experience. I think I had actually been writing code that night and was getting a pizza afterward. But calling it a fight is ridiculous. I *knew* I couldn't fight back. I wanted to but I knew that if I did I really would be charged with assault against a police officer and god knows what else. So I didn't try to defend myself or 'resist' until it was too late and I was pinned under a 250 lb guy unable to breath or even speak before being asphyxiated. And indeed that's how it would have probably ended if the other cop had not pulled him off of me. BTW if this were just a made up story to make cops look bad because I hate them why would I include that last part? That seems to show that at least some cops (say 1 out 15 or so) are willing to actually intervene to stop a murder.
>I suspect that you recall this through more than a little bit of bias and have twisted it to suit your point of the argument
Yes you do. For emotional reasons rather than logical ones. This is what you *want* to believe because it makes you feel better to not think badly of American police. Makes you feel safer and less in danger for your life when you have interactions with them.
Of course it already seems like in interactions with them you treat them as if they are dangerous and mentally unstable gang members with itchy trigger fingers. That's good. Because that is indeed exactly what they are.
>It is also interesting that you, like so many others stopped at sobriety check points, question the legal validity of said stops.
They *are* illegal in 5 US states, but I don't and have not questioned their *legality*. What I questioned was their morality and their constitutionality and indeed such a violation of human rights is consistent with neither.
>Also, I doubt that you were "conversational" in your protestations.
Yes I know. I've met a lot of people like you over the years. It's why I took a plea bargain despite badly wanting to tear apart the cops ridiculous, illogical, and inconsistent story at least some of which I could *prove* was a lie. In any account of events people like you will *always* choose to believe the cops side of the story. Why? Again for emotional reasons. It makes you feel better. Safer. Otherwise you'd have to accept that there are a significant number of cops who are liars and very bad people.
>Having been through more than a few of these check points the cops were never assholes.
Because in your view *no* cops are assholes. Am I right?
>Every time I remained calm and respectful regardless of their inappropriate attitude or actions.
What inappropriate attitude or actions? I thought they weren't assholes.
>One, they calmed down and started to act more rationally.
So they were acting irrationally? Really. I find that so surprising. I thought cops were perfect human beings which is why you always choose to believe their story.
>Two, they generally either reduced the infraction or charges or outright let me go with a simple warning or admonishment to deal with my issues
Did you miss the part where I said, "Fuck you!" quietly but with an angry voice? He *was* provoked, but his overreaction (attempted murder and then false charges) was impressive. Good luck calming a cop down after saying 'fuck you' right to his face. Maybe you are talking about speeding tickets or something.
>NEVER EVER did I get pissed or mouthy with them.
You would not get angry if a cop swore at you for complaining about something? As far as being mouthy yes most people aren't mouthy with the police because they are afraid of them. I was afraid of them as well, but it just got me so mad that he could swear at me like that and that I was not allowed to swear back. Like he is a higher class of citizen. He can verbally abuse me, but I am not allowed to verbally abuse him back?
>He escalated, you responded and escalated
I was out driving to get a pizza. They stopped me and detained me for no reason other than the fact that I refused to answer their stupid questions. I was complaining about how wrong these roadblocks are and he escalated by saying something like, "Shut up you asshole. Then I escalated by saying, 'fuck you'. Then he escalated by attempting to kill me. That last escalation is what I have a problem with. Only a violent psychopath who thinks he can get away with anything would actually do that. It's just crazy. In fact it is so crazy that I think a lot of people would choose not to believe my story. Another reason I took a plea deal.
The whole system of beating + cover charges works quite well really. Otherwise I may have complained about getting beaten for swearing at the cop. Swearing is 100% legal. Beating people up is not. I say 'may have' because complaining about a cop who is *that* murderous and crazy and stupid is in itself kind of stupid or at least ill-advised. I wanted to report him to the FBI, but I was afraid he might have just come to my house and shot me one night because obviously he did not have a problem with murdering me and certainly he did not fear any consequences for doing so.
>The sad part is that all interactions you have with cops now and in the future are tainted by this and all cops are bad no mater what.
It's much worse than that. I can no longer even live in a state where such roadblocks are legal. Can you imagine what would happen if I encountered another one? Well if I could see the roadblock far enough away I would just pull to the side and wait until first light when they pack up and leave. But otherwise I would flee. I would run. I would be thinking of that cop strangling me and being sure I was going to die. Even abandoning my car if I had to and sprint into the nearest woods or anywhere else. Cops don't tend to react rationally to someone running from them. So it probably wouldn't end well. At the very least they would beat me for running when they caught me and then...you guessed it...again with the cover charges to cover their asses.
Basically I now see all male American cops as psychopathic, saidistic, murderers, as people who would have no problem casually killing another human being over even the most minor disrespect or insult. In even the most minor interactions with them I am utterly terrified. Only in the US though. I am living outside the US a the moment luckily and here I am not afraid of the police. There's no reason to be. They are usually just normal humans doing their job for monetary reasons. The most they will do is ask me for a bribe. It would never even occur to them to beat or kill me. American cops are bullies and sociopaths and sadists in love with violence. Luckily that is not the case in most of the world.
It may surprise you to know however that even after my experience I *still* wouldn't answer their invasive questions, but the experience has taught me that you cannot treat US cops as if they are normal human beings. Most are not. At least in my state. I complained to that cop as if he were a fellow human being like me who might at least entertain the idea that detaining innocent people without 'reasonable suspicioon' was wrong/immoral and what happened? He tries to kill me for disrespecting him and then even that is not enough and he tries to put me in prison for 6-10 years or whatever Assault with a Deadly Weapon would have gotten me. He would have loved that though. You should have seen him smiling at me in court when things went exactly as he was expecting them to. He knew he had nothing to fear from his actions despite the fact that there were lots of other police officers around who observed the whole thing.
>Cause and effect.
Yes, well I knew there would be some sort of consequence when I spoke those two words. I thought he might arrest me, maybe on trumped up charges. In fact when I said it I didn't even know if swearing at a cop was legal or not in my state. It certainly seemed like the sort of thing for which there would be laws against. I of course didn't realize that the consequences might involve leaving that parking lot in a zipped up body bag. As I said he was ex-military. Presumably that is how he would have responded to disrespect in Afghanistan. So why not do the same at home?
Body cams aren't really enough I think to stop guys like the one who assaulted me. He would just turn it off or remove it or 'lose' it probably. Even if he were so enraged that he didn't have time to think about it all it would have meant was that I wouldn't have had to worry about the cover charges afterward. Guys like that will still beat and in some cases even murder suspects who disrespect them in front of their peers and they are unlikely to suffer much more than a week or two of paid leave at best if it were caught on video.
>The only solution, both short and long term, is to stop burning stuff.
So basically you are advocating either the death of the majority of our species or nuclear power dependence on a massive scale such that every country becomes basically like France? Or you could just be stupid. A third option.
Also how can you argue that short term matters? Isn't that a ridiculous argument not supported by any of the evidence?
Nice upgrade from 300GB/month. 1 TB is much more reasonable. I wonder if the cap will still be hidden deeply in the ToS.
I hadn't had much contact with US law enforcement (just speeding tickets) until I got stopped at a DUI roadblock one night. I was not drunk. I rarely drink. Scored 0.00% 5 times in a row when they tested me at the station. So they had to drop that charge at least.
Basically I made some comment about it being a violation of my rights to have to be detained by them etc. That it was wrong. That they were bad people for doing it. I was polite about it though just speaking conversationally as if they were human beings like me. A cop swore at me for this and I swore back at him. Then he proceeded to beat me and choke me nearly to death in front of at least 10-15 other officers. The only reason I am alive is because one of the 'not so bad apples' pulled the maniac off of me so that I could breathe again. After I had been saved from death and was lying in a bloody mess with my face smashed into the gravel the cop who beat me started going over his 'story' with another cop. They did this not in whispers, but in loud voices that not only I could hear but the other 15 or so cops who were there including the guy in charge of the whole operation. So I guess making up stories to back 'cover charges' and justify beatings and attempted murder were routine to most of them. They charged me with assault and battery against a police officer, assault with a deadly weapon (what weapon?) and many other so called 'cover charges'. I guess I was lucky they didn't actually plant a gun or knife in my car or something to make the 'deadly weapon' more plausible..
It is true that one of those cops saved my life (the only time a cop has ever done something helpful for me in any way), but he and all those other guys went along with the "bad" cop and not a single cop there questioned what happened in any way or seemed at all disturbed by the situation. I was badly injured and nearly killed for saying, "fuck you" and then falsely charged with serious crimes and not a single one of the 20-30 officers made any attempt to amend the situation or cared even the slightest about what happened. I think most cops would be on the side of the cop who beat me because I disrespected him.
They are just evil people. I remember a Star Trek: TNG episode with this black blob that was supposed to be all of the condensed bad/evil from an entire society that was sloughed off and made into a separate thing. That is like what American cops are for our species: the lowest and most evil of all human beings. They would have become criminals except that they are too cowardly, too afraid of going to jail for their thirst for violence if they had no badge to hide behind. Some also have parents who were cops. So they choose that path.
I know the way bullies think very well because I grew up with one as a child. I have a kind of bullydar. It's like some combination of anger, sadism, sociopathy, and deep cruelty. My own bully as a child used to put firecrackers in frogs asses or mouths and blow them up. Great fun for that kind of person. Every cop that *I* have met in my life were bullies. Every single one. In the US they always seem to have that personality type: tough guy / thug / bully. Cops in most other countries are often just normal people doing a job to make money. They aren't out there to prove how tough they are or to satisfy their bloodlust. It's just a job to them. In the US being a cop is like a whole lifestyle that has a lot more in common with being a gang member than anything else, but unlike those gang members there are no limits at all on their actions. They are not only above the law, but they have no sense of right or wrong, no moral center. No compassion or empathy. And a deep hatred of all 'civilians'. Most of them are very stupid too. Luckily the cop who attacked me was too stupid to invent a coherent and consistent story. I don't even really see them as human beings anymore.
Now probably most cops would not go as far as that crazy one who flipped out and tried to kill a person because they dared to say 'fuck you' to him, but at least 9 out 10 cops that I have met were pure bully. They get off on cruelty, on causing pain, on proving how tough they are. I think many if not most don't even have much respect for the law and commit crimes all the time. Especially when it comes to beating people. Even little girls. How far they are willing to go will of course vary, but most of them are bad bad people that need to be given wide berth by anyone who values their life. I guess the only exception to this in my experience is with female cops. All of the female cops I've met have seemed relatively normal. They weren't 'tough girls' or bullies or even sociopaths. Unfortunately most American cops are males. My attacker was ex-military as well. Another thing you find less often in female cops.
I was told by a defense attorney that my state or maybe the city I was in used to have cruiser dashcams (which would have helped greatly in my case), but they were removed because statistically in court it tended to hurt the prosecution more than it did the defense. I guess someone did an analysis. Police routinely lie on the stand and any audio or video footage makes that much harder to do.
To anyone living in the real world this shouldn't be very surprising of course, but most people probably have had too little contact with real police officers to know this. There is a strong tendency for people to believe in the police image as portrayed in TV and film. But those people are actors who themselves don't really know what it is like to actually be a cop.
Just keep in mind that those cops who routinely beat and murder people are still out there and they aren't quitting their jobs anytime soon. They are very dumb but if this policy is implemented nationally they, as a group, will figure out away around it. Just give them time. Maybe they will ask their smarter friends who make a living doing something other than beating and murdering innocent people and their pets..
But yes it is a huge step forward and all police should be required to wear them and turning off or smashing or otherwise intentionally disabling the cam before beating or murdering a suspect should be severely penalized. I'd suggest summary execution.
They also make suspects act like someone's watching
Right. Because an actual police officer standing right there in front of you doesn't make you feel like you are being watched. Because the suspect knows a jury will believe him rather than the police officer. Yep. Makes sense. Police testimony is routinely thrown out of court because everyone knows they routinely lie on the stand. Oh wait...
I think it comes down to emotions. People want to feel safe from violent cops. So they simply choose to believe that only a tiny percentage of them are violent or dangerous without really knowing either way. Most of them have had zero contact with real life police and only know what they see on TV and in movies which has almost nothing to do with how cops behave in the real world. This is also one reason jurists tend to choose the word of a cop over their victim when there is no evidence either way. They want to believe that most cops will not lie in court. So they do believe it. It's like magic.
When we start seeing videos on YouTube of white people being tased to death, or shot way too many times or in the back or both, or being choked to death while being unarmed and non-hostile, then you can claim this has no racial component to it.
Actually most of the youtube videos I've seen have been of white people getting beaten or tazed. Like that 12 year old girl in Arizona or New Mexico or something getting tazered in the head a while back. The point actually penetrated her skull and punctured her brain.Just googled for it but there are so many similar cases it has been buried.
I did find an 8 year old girl who was tazered though and she wasn't black. But the most recent preteen tazered by our courageous police force is apparently a 12 year old black girl from St. Louis. Lucky our police have weapons or they would surely get wasted by preteen girls on a daily basis. In some places there just aren't enough black people to beat and murder. So they have to resort to beating/murdering white people too. Presumably not their first choice I'll admit, but I'm sure it still satisfies their bloodlust well enough and they go home well sated.
The vast majority of officers are doing their jobs with no illegal behavior.
Do you personally know the 'vast majority of officers'? Or are you pulling that out of your ass?
Having the camera, makes the guy less defensive, as he knows if something does happen to him there will be evidence
Yeah. I am thinking this is not such a strong motivation for anyone who has had dealings with the police. Maybe he will get suspension with pay for shooting you in the face. Maybe if you are lucky it will be without pay. Although that seems unlikely.
Even if you are not killed all it really means is you may have a defense against false accusations and cover charges. People not afraid of the police usually haven't had much experience with them. Everyone else gives them a wide berth at all times. For good reason. They are dangerous. I'd sooner approach an angry rattlesnake than a cop in the US.
Entropy requires no maintenance. -- Markoff Chaney