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You Might Be Buying Trash on Amazon -- Literally (wsj.com) 66

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
Dumpster divers say it's easy to list discarded toys, electronics and books on Amazon. An investigation by the Wall Street Journal found that's an accurate assertion. From a report: Just about anyone can open a store on Amazon.com and sell just about anything. Just ask the dumpster divers. These are among the dedicated cadre of sellers on Amazon who say they sort through other people's rejects, including directly from the trash, clean them up and list them on Amazon.com's platform. Many post their hunting accounts on YouTube. They are an elusive lot. Many The Wall Street Journal contacted wouldn't give details about their listings, said they stopped selling dumpster finds or no longer listed them as new, didn't respond to inquiries or stopped communicating. Some said they feared Amazon would close their stores.

So the Journal set out to test whether these claims were true. Reporters went dumpster diving in several New Jersey towns and retrieved dozens of discards from the trash including a stencil set, scrapbook paper and a sealed jar of Trader Joe's lemon curd. The Journal set up a store on Amazon to see if it could list some of its salvaged goods for sale as new. It turned out to be easy. Amazon's stated rules didn't explicitly prohibit items salvaged from the trash when the Journal disclosed the existence of its store to the company last month. The rules required that most goods be new and noted that sellers could offer used books and electronics, among other things, if they identified them as such.
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You Might Be Buying Trash on Amazon -- Literally More

You Might Be Buying Trash on Amazon -- Literally

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  • So what? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mschaffer ( 97223 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @01:53PM (#59529340)

    Isn't this just an example of recycling? After all, one man's trash is another man's treasure.

    • Re:So what? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ebonum ( 830686 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @01:55PM (#59529350)

      First post sums this one up well.

      What gets me is that the WSJ seems to be implying their crack team of journalists have uncovered something sinister.

      • Re:So what? (Score:4, Funny)

        by Jason1729 ( 561790 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @02:02PM (#59529372)
        The only thing this "investigation" reveals is how shitty modern journalism is and that Wall Street Journal is leading the flow down the toilet.
        • The Wall Street Journal is another awful Murdoch rag, so no surprise there.

          The headline could have just as easily been:
          "Amazon enables recycling" or the like.

      • I got a sense of snobbery in the article. While this stuff shouldn't be sold as new being that it was discarded by someone else doesn't make it bad or faulty.
        While we picture a lot of garbage being mixed with food waste a lot of stuff in the dumpster is actually clean and in good condition. The problem is the work and effort involved in selling stuff that you have and you don't want. That it is often easier just to toss it, vs putting the effort in selling it yourself.

        • Re:So what? (Score:4, Interesting)

          by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @03:08PM (#59529618)

          My local dump has a "reuse" area. If you think some of your trash may be useful to someone else, you can put it in a separate box and drop it there.

          Both dropping off and picking up are free.

          I have dropped off many boxes of junk there, and also picked up some small pieces of lumber, plexiglass, etc. I got some tools that with some minor repairs were good as new. I got a free microwave oven for my workshop that only had some cosmetic damage.

          • My local dump has a "reuse" area. If you think some of your trash may be useful to someone else, you can put it in a separate box and drop it there.

            Both dropping off and picking up are free.

            I have dropped off many boxes of junk there, and also picked up some small pieces of lumber, plexiglass, etc. I got some tools that with some minor repairs were good as new. I got a free microwave oven for my workshop that only had some cosmetic damage.

            Interesting.....I actually have NO idea where my dump would be.

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • This sort of depends on how someone defines new. I find it difficult to consider an undamaged new-in-package product as "not new" simply because it was discarded. If Safeway sells their Halloween-themed chocolate to the Dollar Store in November, we would generally consider that candy to still be "new". If Safeway instead held onto it until next year, we wouldn't consider the candy to be "new" anymore.

          Is how the product changed hands the relevant factor for determining newness? Or the actual nature

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by geek ( 5680 )

        First post sums this one up well.

        What gets me is that the WSJ seems to be implying their crack team of journalists have uncovered something sinister.

        Its only sinister if they are selling the stuff as "new"

        • If it's still shrink wrapped then it is new.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Rhipf ( 525263 )

            Not sure that I would want to buy lemon curd that was in a dumpster even if the jar was factory sealed. Sure it may be fine but do I really want to take a chance. Of course if it is being sold as new on Amazon I guess I would never know it came from a dumpster. I guess that is why I try to stay away from affiliates when shopping Amazon.

            • Mail order perishables are questionable to begin with. Bulk dry goods in a sealed package (coffee, grains, pasta, etc) doesn't care where its been within some very broad parameters. Electronics and other gizmos and clothing really don't care for the most part.

      • "What gets me is that the WSJ seems to be implying their crack team of journalists have uncovered something sinister."

        But they have. You can buy an ad on WSJ or any other newspaper to sell any crap you want, even used cars! (gasp).

        I did some research, apparently this has been going on for _decades_!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

      Isn't this just an example of recycling? After all, one man's trash is another man's treasure.

      As long as they are properly marked as used and sold as such, who cares how they are acquired by the seller as long as it is done so legally? Now, hopefully when it comes to foodstuffs they aren't reselling anything recovered even if still sealed since you don't know it's "storage" conditions.

      • Marked as what though, where is the line that makes it not new?

        If someone buys an idea from a store, decides they don't want it and can't return it so they sell it still sealed on Amazon, can't they say it's new? What if that first person gives the item away to a friend and the friend sells it on Amazon? What if they leave it by the curb on garbage day and a stranger picks it up? What if they leave it on top of the garbage can or dumpster? What if they put in the garbage can or dumpster?

        At what

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

          Marked as what though, where is the line that makes it not new?

          If someone buys an idea from a store, decides they don't want it and can't return it so they sell it still sealed on Amazon, can't they say it's new? What if that first person gives the item away to a friend and the friend sells it on Amazon? What if they leave it by the curb on garbage day and a stranger picks it up? What if they leave it on top of the garbage can or dumpster? What if they put in the garbage can or dumpster?

          At what point can they no longer call the item new? How should the item be described in each case and why?

          I would say once it's been discarded (or of course opened/used) then it no longer qualifies as "new" stock. You could label it as used/unopened which would imply that it is still in its original packaging but has not been sourced through wholesale/original retail.

          In fact, Amazon already lays out the terminology:

          New: Just like it sounds. A brand-new, item. Original manufacturer's warranty, if any, still applies, with warranty details included in the listing comments. Original packaging is present for most New items but certain items like shoes may be re-boxed.
          Renewed: A product that has been inspected and tested to work and look like new by an Amazon-qualified and performance-managed supplier (a Marketplace seller or vendor) or by Amazon. The product has minimal to no signs of wear, no visible cosmetic imperfections when held 12 inches away, and may arrive in a brown or white box with relevant accessories that may be generic with exceptions, if any, mentioned on the product detail page. The product comes with the Amazon Renewed Guarantee giving you a replacement or refund within 90 days of purchase if the product does not work as expected.
          Rental: A product that has been inspected and graded by a qualified supplier (a seller, vendor, or by Amazon) in working condition with no structural imperfections that could impact the functionality. The products may be packaged in a generic box and come with relevant accessories as expected for a new product. Any exceptions to this condition description will be mentioned on the product detail page.
          Used - Like New or Open Box: An item in perfect working condition. Original protective wrapping may be missing, but the original packaging is intact and in good condition with minor damage possible. Instructions are included.
          Used - Very Good: A well-cared-for item that has seen limited use and remains in good working condition. The item may show some limited signs of wear with small scratches or cosmetic blemishes. Item may arrive with damaged packing or be repackage and could be missing some accessories. Missing accessories are clearly defined for each item.

        • If you are blatantly and loudly presenting yourself as a liquidator or other company that is clearly selling this "as is" or clearly not obtaining things from a "company-authorized distributor/wholesaler/etc" then you can get away with calling things "new" without being deceptive, since buyers know what is going on. Yes, the item may be still in its factory-sealed box, and yes, the item may have left the factory floor recently, but there is no guarantee that the item hasn't been abused or suffered in a host

        • Marked as what though, where is the line that makes it not new?

          If someone buys an idea from a store, decides they don't want it and can't return it so they sell it still sealed on Amazon, can't they say it's new? What if that first person gives the item away to a friend and the friend sells it on Amazon? What if they leave it by the curb on garbage day and a stranger picks it up? What if they leave it on top of the garbage can or dumpster? What if they put in the garbage can or dumpster?

          At what point can they no longer call the item new? How should the item be described in each case and why?

          If the item has passed from the retailer to the consumer it is no longer "new" for purposes of reselling it.

          Amazon specifically addresses this with the condition "Used: Like New". On Amazon, you will find many items for sale in this condition with descriptions such as: "unopened", "new in box", "brand new", etc.

          Wholesalers and retailers can pass items back and forth between them several times and still sell an item as "new", but once sold to a person it is considered a used item. You can argue that it is

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Do your legal rights change in either case? It's the warranty still okay?

    • Second that. I don't see the problem here; seems like these folks have figured out a way to make things that would normally turn into pollution desirable and valuable.
    • especially food items and bedding of any sort. Stores don't usually just throw things out for fun. Items that don't sell are normally shipped back to the manufacture for a refund.
    • The problem is they're being sold as new.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Shaitan ( 22585 )

      Agreed. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. You'd be amazed how many people throw perfectly good items they never even opened away as well as furniture and appliances that are easily repaired.

      The "trash" is just the curb.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by v1 ( 525388 )

      I think it's a great idea to take what someone else has thrown away and try to reuse it, whether directly themselves, or to find someone else that wants it. That's the 2nd of the three R's for sustainability:

      1. Reduce
      2. Reuse ---- this one right here
      3. Recycle

      It lowers the amount of stuff going to the landfill, and saves money. Why would anyone NOT support this?

    • Isn't this just an example of recycling?

      No, this is not recycling.

      This is the more important and effective "reuse" part of the "reduce, reuse, recycle" mantra.

  • How dare you! (Score:5, Funny)

    by swirlingbrain ( 5324451 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @01:55PM (#59529352)
    These dumpster items should go into the landfill and pollute the planet instead of being made useful again! /s

    • While I feel that WSJ is being a snob on the topic. There are a lot of goods that are tossed out for a reason vs being sold.

      As a kid working in retail, we had to toss some useful stuff because the product no longer meets safety guidelines. Has parts that are expired (Batteries) Or some equipment we are legally responsible to get rid of.

  • So? (Score:1)

    by davidwr ( 791652 )

    Buying used/as-is on Amazon? Not news.

    Buying used/as-is without full disclosure and the implication that it is either new or a factory-authorized refurbished item. News, but not because it's Amazon, but because it's a criminal act, namely, fraud.

    I'd be shocked if unscrupulous eBay, Craigslist, and other on- and offline-marketplaces haven't been selling used/salvaged items as new since the dawn of manufacturing.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Shaitan ( 22585 )

      "News, but not because it's Amazon, but because it's a criminal act, namely, fraud."

      Agreed, though refurbished does not not automatically mean factory refurbished or authorized refurbishing. Take an inkjet, clean the nozzles, replace the rollers/sep pads, anything needed for the mechanical operation and give it a general clean up and it is perfectly valid to call it refurbished whether you are HP authorized or not. The same is true of most anything else where the primarily consumable and wearable parts have

    • Buying used/as-is on Amazon? Not news.

      Buying used/as-is without full disclosure and the implication that it is either new or a factory-authorized refurbished item. News, but not because it's Amazon, but because it's a criminal act, namely, fraud.

      I'd be shocked if unscrupulous eBay, Craigslist, and other on- and offline-marketplaces haven't been selling used/salvaged items as new since the dawn of manufacturing.

      Fraud is not shocking.

      What is shocking is finding people that assume that law is even remotely enforceable. You might as well not even cite a law. It's that worthless. We'll be talking about this problem 5 years from now when it's grown to ten times what it is today. No one gives a shit about petty theft.

    • Buying used/as-is on Amazon? Not news.

      Buying used/as-is without full disclosure and the implication that it is either new or a factory-authorized refurbished item. News, but not because it's Amazon, but because it's a criminal act, namely, fraud.

      I'd be shocked if unscrupulous eBay, Craigslist, and other on- and offline-marketplaces haven't been selling used/salvaged items as new since the dawn of manufacturing.

      The Amazon marketplace particularly is a complete cesspool that is not at all
      equivalent to eBay in large part because Amazon actively shields sellers and has intentionally designed a feedback system that is impossible to use and completely worthless in order to maximize profit.

  • Comment removed (Score:3)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @02:18PM (#59529424)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • You just can’t win (Score:4, Informative)

    by fermion ( 181285 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @02:28PM (#59529468) Homepage Journal
    If you throw away returned product because it is trash, people complain you are destroying the environment

    If you repackaged and restore vintage product, people complain you are selling trash

    Honestly, a lot of my friends thrive on other people trash.

    • You can't "win" firstly because there is no game, secondly people are a diverse group. Some of them are recycling conscious some other don't care and want new toys. The bottom line is that be it politics, or religion or whatever subject even innocuous you almost certainly never find a consensus in the general population (which is why people, be them from the left or right, like echo chambers). Just decide what's for you and with your own justification - as long as you don't reject basis science ;).

  • Why forget the stolen goods? (Score:3)

    by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @02:35PM (#59529492) Journal
    When I was a brand new immigrant with a student visa I was amazed by number of perfectly usable things left on the lawn, in the porches etc. Children never bring their bikes inside, they leave in the lawn. So much of things like garden hoses, lawn furniture would be left unlocked.

    When I asked people about the possibility of theft, friends told me, "theft exists, in many neighborhoods. But in most cases Americans will not buy stolen goods knowingly. The thieves take the risk, and pawn it for very low sums and run. Most pawn shops will not accept stolen goods knowingly. A few bent pawn brokers do, but it is really difficult and risky to sell stolen goods. So the theft rate is quite low".

    If this is very easy to set up store front in Amazon and sell items retrieved from trash, thieves must already be on it. Wondering how much of it is stolen goods. Amazon can still feign ignorance. It can say, "all I do is to provide storefront, if they sell hot stuff, they commit the crime, not me". Same way uber claims it is not a taxi company and its drivers are not its employees.

    • If this is very easy to set up store front in Amazon and sell items retrieved from trash, thieves must already be on it.

      But realistically, anything you leave outside is going to probably be too large to ship easily. Yes you could steal a bike or lawn furniture and list it on Amazon, but who would buy it?

      Your pictures of it are going the crap too and anything smaller will not even have a box... you are for sure going to still be selling something for a much lower price on Amazon, if at all.

    • When I was a brand new immigrant with a student visa I was amazed by number of perfectly usable things left on the lawn, in the porches etc. Children never bring their bikes inside, they leave in the lawn

      As some people pointed out, the "payback/risk" and "difficulty of fencing" is enough to make lawn-item theft usually not worthwhile.

      That said, in some neighborhoods you learn to tell your kids to lock up their bikes or at least put them out of sight. I've even seen people put lock lawn furniture to a pole or to bricks, to make it "not worth the effort" for a thief looking for a quick buck.

      In other neighborhoods, burglary of a habitation, or of a lawn, is so rare that it's not worth the hassle to lock thing

    • Depends heavily where you live. A friend had a brand new car stolen 2 weeks after he bought it in SF. Here, bikes are stolen if left out, even if chained/locked. I think hoses are pretty safe. If you want safe, I'd say Japan is a much better example. I was at a train station with thousands of bikes all left unlocked as students would bike to the station, and hop the train for the final leg to school. I was amazed students could return at the end of the day and not accidentally ride the wrong bike home. I me
  • Imagune buying an expensive item at a retail store only to find out that you bought a box of bathroom tiles when you get home: https://m.slashdot.org/story/9... [slashdot.org]

    • Sounds like shopping at Fry's.

      • What, Fry's has boxes on the shelves now? That's an improvement.

        • Fair point. As far as I know, they still don't. The question is, why are they keeping the stores open when they have nothing to sell? The least they could do is get some old AT motherboards and ISA cards and put them in some new boxes, like old times.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by davidwr ( 791652 )

      I bet the bathroom tiles had a longer useful life.

  • ...is another man's Amazon purchase.

  • wow (Score:2)

    by xorbe ( 249648 )

    So I've been doing right to permanently disassemble/disable broken items that can't be reasonably repaired.

  • Redd Foxx! Is that you!?
    Elizabeth! I'm comin' for ya', honey!

  • Much as I may resent ebay's fees when selling, as a buyer I've never been unable to return something if I wanted to do so. In other words, their middleman fee does buy you something. In the olden days if you mail-ordered a camera from some sleazy outfit in New Jersey and didn't like it or found out it was gray market or whatever - heaven help you.
  • have you ever smelled a dumpster, disgusting rotten garbage smell, as long as what i order is clean, looks new, no flaws, and in good working order, now that i know this all it will take is a slight smell, one little flaw, even if the packaging has a damp corner or stain, i will call them out on it and return the items for a full refund
  • And amazingly, Slashdot is not full of apologists for one the the largest, most monopoly-abusing multinational corporations on the planet. Wow. A little bit of convenience goes a long way, apparently.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by DogDude ( 805747 )
      I have no idea how that "not" got in there. I'm amazed that Slashdot *** IS *** full of Amazon apologists.

      • I have no idea how that "not" got in there. I'm amazed that Slashdot *** IS *** full of Amazon apologists.

        It's because we buy everything off Amazon, and don't have any real reason to hate them.
        Don't believe me? Look at how well Amazon is doing compared to the little shops in the mall we never liked to begin with.

  • I bought off of Amazon and had returned, but they were never shipped by the return agent.

  • ...most of the stuff is brand new anyway if we go along with what this other article reported about returned new items being trashed instead of resold...

    https://slashdot.org/story/19/... [slashdot.org]

  • It is no different than going to a flea market. I have been to several where I know the items were left on the side of the road. Just have to be careful who you buy from., what you buy and read the description carefully.

  • The rules required that most goods be new and noted that sellers could offer used books and electronics, among other things, if they identified them as such.

    So, not lemon curd then.

    And you are not allowed to list used items as new, if you follow the rules.

    Wow, so if you break the rules, you can break the rules?? This is quite a scoop guys!

  • They are not dumpsters, they are overstock surprise boxes.

  • Not sure why I'm reading so much ire directed at the WSJ. The article is fact-based and not sensational in content. Recycled goods are being offered as new on Amazon. No surprise to readers here, but, most people are not aware of is how easy it is to do, and how weak (or even non-existent) Amazon's consumer protection processes are. That level of ignorance is one of the things journalism was created to address.

  • Shouldn't that be "litterally"?

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