DVDs w/ Built in USB Ports for Copy Protection 306
An anonymous reader writes "Aladdin has come up with a new way of restricting the data stored on optical discs. It's 'XCD' format has a chip built directly into the disc and which fits into a USB port. So, a user needs to plug the disc into their computer to access a cryptophic key before being able to use the data stored on the disc (presumably in some sort of proprietary player)."
Stupid stupid idea (Score:5, Interesting)
The software could run, detect its host key is plugged in (hell, they could make a custom key with an encrypted read only block if they like your software can try to write to that area, and if it managed it it knows its fake...).
The data can be protected by cryptographic magic and the shareholders are happy.
Whilst this won't stop all forms of hacking, it will certainly stop the normal folks from having a go and ensures that the hardware isn't broken by putting unbalanced pointy edged crap into the dvd drive.
I'm not even considering how you would get this "key" into a computer with cramped usb slots.
The only thing a key that looks like the one described should ever be needed is for a petrol station toilet key.
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As long as we're getting our facts straight, the "upcoming" formats are just that, upcoming. By the time they are anywhere near as standard in new computers as CD drives and USB ports are now, flash drives will have out-stripped their capacity. (Based on any reasonable estimate of adoption rates and flash capacity increase.) Mass produced, inert platic discs will continue to be far cheaper of course, but this whole idea is to add much of the expense of a flash drive to the disc. For no benefit to the cus
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But if you don't have to rewrite anything, you could presumeably build the data into the chip at fab time somehow. Which I assume would greatly reduce the complexity of the memory. Any ideas? cost?
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I, for one, do not welcome our USB-dongle-built-in DRM overlords...
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Kill it early, save a lot of trouble. (Score:5, Insightful)
That's like saying "eh, that DMCA bill is just a bunch of Congresscritters doing some research into ways to make a buck. Until it's on the House floor for a vote, it should just be considered interesting thoughts."
By the time Hollywood is trying to push something down your throat, it's probably already too late. This sort of stupidity needs to be nipped in the bud; the idiot executives who spend millions on these systems and millions more buying laws to force them on us, need to learn that no DRM scheme will last against the concerted effort of thousands of people. It's fundamentally flawed, irretrievably broken, and it doesn't matter if they put the decryption key on a USB dongle, or a special sector of the disc, or over the Internet.
All DRM is broken, it's just a question of how obnoxious it is to legitimate users. Systems that just reek of stupidity, like this one does, should be killed quickly before they can gain any traction.
Will this actually do anything? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Stupid stupid idea (Score:5, Informative)
Install soft ice, insstall program, trap dongle call with soft ice, done.
Note that if you do a re-install you will need the dongle again, but at least for day to day operations no more 3-7 dongles packed onto the parallel port conflicting with each other.
-nB
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I do not have that kind of money
-nB
Re:Stupid stupid idea (Score:4, Insightful)
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This is a pretty lousy justification
But it's free! I'll install it for you right now.
(I'm not saying this is the situation with you, just that your reasoning sucks
Why Not a Giant Padlock (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Why Not a Giant Padlock (Score:5, Funny)
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A 40 pound bicycle needs no lock.
A 30 pound bicycle needs a 10 pound lock.
A 25 pound bicycle needs a 15 pound lock.
A 20 pound bicycle needs a 20 pound lock. (Kryptonite NYC Fahgettaboutit chain, which, btw, stops nobody with a voltage inverter and a Skillsaw with abrasive cutoff wheel)
This smart-card-on-a-cd is like putting the Kryptonite lock on the 40 pound bicycle.
--
BMO
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But otherwise, yeah, a special clamp that interfaces with contacts for circuitry at the hub of the disk and ends in a USB plug would be better than this unbalanced monstrosity, and you don't lose disk capacity. After the initial introduction of disks with the device included, you then sell them without the device and offer it separately as a replacement part and for new
Why? (Score:4, Funny)
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Or because... (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, I think it's becase a whole bunch of companies want to invent the "holy grail" of copy protection schemes (the connotation of the word scheme makes it fit well here, I think), so they run around making up wildly rediculous stuff that either doesn't work, noone wants it, or is easily bypassed (using magic markers, the shift key, etc.). In the end it just annoys people, but these companies must be getting paid by the so-called content providers, because they never stop trying to think of silly new ways to do things, not realizing that their complicated schemes just annoy legitimate consumers and barely begin to challenge the "pirates".
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They can not have the smartcard chip do the decryption because you need to remove the disk from the USB port to place it in the PC, hence you are really transferring data from the USB dongle to the PC, that data is likely a proprietary binary with an embedded decryption key and algorithim. It all boils down to the thing being a DVD and a thumb drive. step one: execute app from thumb drive, step two: insert DVD.
Since the decryption is still happening on the us
Re:Or because... (Score:5, Interesting)
The only thing that might work as an unbreakable copy-protection scheme is to have the decryption performed within the brain of the viewer, so there is never an unencrypted version of anything anywhere. And I can think of only one way to do this: you would have to give the user mind-enhancing drugs and "train" them, with a short film, to perform the decryption. The movie itself would be displayed encrypted, and only viewable by someone trained to decrypt it -- which ability they would naturally lose as the effects of the drug wore off. For future watchings, or party viewings, more pills would be required. (This would suit the studios, as every instance of viewing must be paid for -- someone who watches a movie at a friend's house represents a lost opportunity to sell a movie. This creates a new business model: give away "unwatchable" movies for free and charge for the pills that make them watchable.) If you combined the psychotropic with another substance which reacts with growth hormone to produce nausea or other undesirable effects, you might be able to get enforced age-restriction into the bargain.
One question nobody is answering: How much of the retail price of media is accounted for by copy-protection?
And another: What if original media were sold cheaply enough that it would not be economically viable to make pirate copies?
it's called a dongle. (Score:5, Insightful)
we don't need them back, they sucked originally..
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Re:it's called a dongle. (Score:5, Insightful)
Though to be fair, you haven't seen a real dongle until you get into other lines of work like cable television where the dongle they sell you IS the server and you can't add memory without calling tech support and getting them to adjust your key. Seriously, the software/hardware sells for over $300k and it's little more than a Linux box.
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Heh (Score:5, Insightful)
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Obviously you've never worked in government procurement. [ducks] Seriously the product is bought usually isn't the best. It's the cheapest or the product whose company has the most influence.
dongles anyone? (Score:2, Informative)
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"Utilizing the speed of USB 2.0, we can effectly transfer more and larger rootkits on our customer's computer. People love this feature! We made the rootkits to enable 1080p resolution prerendered cutscenes that show a delightful show at how we strip a computer of it's security! But it's not all about video, the larger and quicker USB dongle can enable 7.1 sound giving you the rich experience of ports being opened all around you! People love t
Just playing with ideas... (Score:2)
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I hate artificial restrictions on what you can do with software. It's just like old-time minicomputers that could be upgraded to the faster, three times more expensive version by resoldering a wire inside.
It's almost a crime not to be able to use hardware or software you own to its full potential because of silly "licensing issues".
-Z
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So if I sold you a personal accounting program, you should be able to sell accounting services with it? Companies don't do it just for kicks and giggles, they do it because there's a high-margin market and the cheapest way to serve both markets is to have some sort of switch. If they couldn't put licensing restrictions you'd have one price that'd be overpriced for individuals and
It's called an iPod... (Score:2)
The market shall dictate (Score:3, Insightful)
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Wow (Score:2)
Funny that breathing new life into something that works means restricting it, and then packaging it up as a benefit.
Well, it's like anything else. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Well, it's like anything else. (Score:5, Funny)
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While I appreciate... (Score:4, Insightful)
1) It adds no value to the content of the delivery.
2) It makes it more difficult for customers to use the product.
This might hit some nitch market. It might work acceptably for software sales (infact, the dongle trick has been used for years on software), where the interface and consumer expectations differ. But this will never work in the entertainment industry with out industry wide adoption (read: will never happen).
-Rick
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And the dongle approach has failed three times: once with Apple ][, again with CP/M and once more with DOS.
Only a few rare examples still exist in the wild: everyone else, including my former employers, found it was so expensive and worked so badly it was more expensive than the projected loss from merely-copyrighted softeware.
--dave
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Why, I'll just run out and buy it now! (Score:5, Insightful)
a. can't play on my existing PC (running Linux)
b. can't play using my existing DVD players
c. will lose the god damned dongle for
d. will not obtain any benefit from. In fact, I'll LOSE my fair use rights.
Thanks, but after thinking it over really hard, I decided to pass on it.
Hint: drop the DRM.
'Nuff said (Score:3, Insightful)
Every once in a great while, something comes along that is such a mindbogglingly stupid idea that there's no need to even comment on it. I'm not even going to dignify this idea with an explanation of why it's so stupid; I think it speaks for itself. I will say, however, that anyone who actually buys one of these things should be shot in the head to make their death quick and painless, because at least that way, we won't risk their idiocy potentially harming one or more of the rest of us when they tell their friends, "Hey, watch this!"
Mental note: Never buy stock in a company named Aladdin...
Re:'Nuff said (Score:4, Funny)
Not Only Unfriendly But Anti-Consumer... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Just push down on the nub with your finger and the DVD pops right out.
dibs! (Score:2)
Wow! (Score:2, Insightful)
How amazing!
Should spin fine at 40x (Score:5, Funny)
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Media-less society (Score:5, Insightful)
Another case of "just because you can doesn't mean you should".
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There's also the fact that nobody uses DivX/MP3 in the media, but H.264/AAC is being used today by broadcasters and the television industry. Never mind the fact that there's a lof of DVD players compatible with DivX, they exists only because people illegally download movies from the net.
Not to mention
It was a nice run (Score:5, Funny)
Umm (Score:2)
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No, it is to make money.
Lots and lots of money.
Expected conversation at company (Score:4, Insightful)
"Yeah... and?"
"Well... They can't change the key that's on the USB part, because the encrypted data itself on the disc will have to remain static right?"
"What's your point?"
"Then wouldn't we have saved ourselves millions and millions of dollars by just having that key on the optical disc part to begin with?"
"..."
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"[0024] Embedding electrical storage means with corresponding I/O means in a CD provides a unique device which may be implemented especially in data security field, i.e. a security device. For example, the XCD can be used as an ATM card, credit card, authentication card, and so forth. The owner of the XCD can open his office door by the proximity coil, use the embedded smart card or magnetic stripe and his picture printed on the CD as a credit card, use the XCD as an ID card on the Internet, as a securi
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"Yeah, but now we have this cool Dongle thing"
"And??"
"And people will inevitable lose it and have to buy another one, which will give away for free but charge extra hefty shipping and handling!"
"Brillant!"
Unemployment (Score:2, Funny)
Why not just bring in unemployeed people to distribute with each disk. They stand by your keyboard and slap your hand everytime you try to do something with the disk that manufacturer doesn't like. Bring them in on H1B.
Been there, done that (Score:5, Interesting)
It lasted about a year, when our marketshare shrank to the point of near death did they finally realize that people liked the software, but couldn't overcome the licensing problems that came with it. In my opinion, we haven't recovered from it since...
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Of course, perhaps we'll get to watch Sony or some other megacorp buy this insanity. I can't see how it will end differently than Divx. Maybe that'll give you some consolation: it won't be the same as a juicy court settlement, but schadenfreude can be damn theraputic.
Re:Been there, done that (Score:5, Interesting)
empower disgruntled employees.
the last job I had one of the production guys was getting fired, he was dating one of the HR girls so he knew it for a week ahead of time.
so his last day there he grabbed every dongle he could find and swapped the plastic covers at random, then swapped all usb and PP dongles around on all the edit suites.
next monday every editing suite was dead with an "unauthorized use" message. it took 2 weeks to discover what happened and only by a electronics savvy IT guy that looked at them very carefully before sending them to the software company.
we could not prove who did it, but several of us knew who it was.
hell stealing a dongle or simply pulling them out and tossing them in the trash would completely screw any company.
as the asshat companies that use dongles on their software will not replace them without you buying them all new at $4500.00 per seat.
Before I left I helped install dongle cracks on every editing station to avoid that issue in the future. To hell with the EULA.
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Thanks for noticing. Many software houses did the toss it out and see if it sells. Having had to deal with a dongle that got borrowed and having the critical software die including any possiblility to restoring from a backup set my policy.. No dongles ever. Too bad you had to learn the hard way instead of asking your customer base. Some
New Tech! (Score:4, Funny)
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Are they nuts? (Score:3, Funny)
Oh, and binding the disc to my computer that I'm about to replace is definitely a good idea!
Not practical (Score:2)
How to wrecka DVD drive (Score:2)
1. put on top stickers of pokemons you obtained from chewing gums
2. crack a disk and see if it plays
3. stuff two disks at once
4. have you noticed small cd/dvd-s are more expensive than full size ones !? what's with that. chop pieces of a large CD/DVD to create a home made small cd/dvd and record stuff on it
Now,
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Exhibit A: Sony rootkit.
Sometimes the "professionals" can't see the long term profit potential of fair and honest work past their greed and their bent for a relatively small short-term gain.
I really like this idea (Score:3, Insightful)
There must be something wrong here... (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course all that is moot, because you only need one person with a compliant DVD reader to extract the film data and compress it into a 4 Gb MPEG-4 film that will fit in a standard DVD, and then share it away.
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That's someone else's patent...
ports, eh? (Score:2)
This is such a mad idea (Score:2)
Stranger things have happened..
Incredible! (Score:2)
1. Company sells a DVD that won't play in 90% of peoples existing players. It'll also be a major hassle to use in the players it DOES work in
2. People will stop buying DVDs because they're a godawful waste of money, since chances are high you can't even play them.
3. People start pirating, and thus depleting all of Hollywood's funds.
4. Hollywood goes bankrupt, no more movies are produced and thus the problem is solved. If th
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You misspelled 100%.
Burn them custom for everybody (Score:2)
In order to have this work. I envision the following system (as a brief thought experiment...there are holes probably)
1. CD's/DVD's are encrypted using public/private keypair.
2. When you buy your DVD player you stick a USB stick (which comes with the player) and a public/private keypair is generated (this is happening AT the store before you take the
I don't think it's for movies (Score:2)
Wtf does it matter where the key is stored? (Score:2)
What difference does it make where you put the key, you have to ship it with media or the player so people can actually watch the movie. It doesn't matter how many layers of bullshit you wrap it in...protected software layers... obfuscation...hardware decoders...dongles..the key is still there
ROI for DVD Protection (Score:2)
The people that copy DVDs for a living will find a way to get around ANY protection that is created. They are the ones that tend to hurt the Business Model more than the other group of people anyway.
Stupefyingly bad design (Score:5, Interesting)
A normal disc:
PI * r^2 - PI * (.4r)^2
PI * r^2 -
The new magical disc:
PI * (.6r^2) - PI * (.4r^2)
So in other words, if my math is correct (and it's entirely possible that it's not), you'd be looking at
And I'm sure these guys will go so much trouble to balance these things properly! Even a well balanced commercial disc in a very high speed DVD drive creates an unnerving amount of noise and vibration. I shudder to think of what would happen with the center of mass potentially thrown way off center from the cuts and the electronics, and the tremendous amount of air turbulence you'd end up with from the shape of that thing. You'd be lucky if it didn't destroy itself and/or the drive within seconds if the motor tried to crank it up to full speed.
In short, there's no way in hell this will ever make it to market, for these reasons, and reasons others have already stated.
Won't work (Score:2)
The USB part is easy enough to replicate; you can just get a USB protocol analyser and work out what's going on. Also, the code that talks to the USB device ought to be easy to isolate. Since the disc can't be in both the drive and the USB port at the same time, the authentication must necessarily be a one-time process rather than a continuous process. This should not be at all hard to spoof.
You have to wonder whether this wasn't deliberately invented on purpose in order to fool media c
Why not laser-etched holes a la PROLOK? (Score:3)
Why don't manufacturers take a look at the various systems deployed in the heyday of MS-DOS? Vault's PROLOK system involved a unique, laser-etched physical hole in the diskette. It was used by Ashton-Tate, IIRC. It would have to be a better idea than this one.
Of course, if manufacturers really took a look at the various systems deployed in the heyday of MS-DOS, they might notice that all of them added a burden to the cost-of-goods, none of them worked, all of them were cracked, all of them created ill-will among honest customers, and all of them were abandoned after a few years.
Survey says....bbbzzzzttt! quack! BS alert... (Score:2)
'cryptophic' -- crypto~phic: (OS X Dictionary) No entries found
They weren't secure enough in the raw marketing power of their product on its' own, so they tried to find a more traditional means of making it sound hi-tech and all...which indicates they went the 'Super-Duper Asstonishingly Boss!!!' route and elected to dazzle w/bullshit instead.
If anything, 'cryptophic' seems redundant. 'crypto(phic) key' -- 'crypto key'...which is j
Low tech (Score:2)
Honestly that seems a lot more sensible than digging though a drawer full of probably identical looking dongles trying to find the one that works with your DVD.
How is this supposed to work? (Score:2)
However, if the hardware is closed, you no longer need the USB-scheme anyway, so what's the point?
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lost dongles (Score:2)
Dongle systems work for expensive limited production software packages like autocad. The system is
As successful as UMD? (Score:2)
UMD was actually sold in stores, you really could go by UMD movies. This stuff? No way.
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-nB
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Good Solution: Don't buy them