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The Incessant Whine of Crypto Mining (cnn.com) 90

Posted by BeauHD from the never-ending dept.
"When people talk about crypto mining the first thing usually mentioned is the amount of electricity it uses," writes Slashdot reader quonset. "What few realize is how loud rack after rack of servers and fans for cooling running 24/7 can be. The people of Murphy, North Carolina found out, and are not happy about it." From a report: When Judy Stines first heard about cryptocurrency, "I always thought it was smoke and mirrors," she said. "But if that's what you want to invest in, you do you." But then she heard the sound of crypto, a noise that neighbor Mike Lugiewicz describes as "a small jet that never leaves" and her ambivalence turned into activism. The racket was coming from stacks and stacks of computer servers and cooling fans, mysteriously set up in a few acres of open farm field down on Harshaw Road.

Once they fired up and the noise started bouncing around their Blue Ridge Mountain homes, sound meters in the Lugiewicz yard showed readings from 55-85 decibels depending on the weather, but more disturbing than the volume is the fact that the noise never stopped. "There's a racetrack three miles out right here," Lugiewicz said, pointing away from the crypto mine next door. "You can hear the cars running. It's cool!" "But at least they stop," Stines chimed in, "And you can go to bed!"

[...] The mine in Murphy is just one of a dozen in Kentucky, Tennessee and North Carolina owned by a San Francisco-based company called PrimeBlock, which recently announced $300 million in equity financing and plans to scale up and go public. But a year and a half after crypto came to this ruby red pocket of Republican retirees and Libertarian life-timers, anger over the mine helped flip the balance of local power and forced the Board of Commissioners to officially ask their state and federal officials to "introduce and champion legislation through the US Congress that would ban and/or regulate crypto mining operations in the United States of America."
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The Incessant Whine of Crypto Mining More

The Incessant Whine of Crypto Mining

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  • The hardware is standing in an open field?
    Server rooms are not exactly a new concept. It's hard to fathom they'd get up to 85 decibels at distance, even without a wall in the way. Sound grows weaker exponentially by distance IIRC.

    What is going on here?

    • It can't be 85 dB.
      It can't even be 55 dB at that distance.

      I think the sound meters TFS talks about are exposed to air currents. I checked my Sound Meter app, if I yell, I can get up to 90 dB but that's a LOT of noise. However, if I blow air into the phone mic, I easily get 80-81 dB to be recorded.
      The guy probably takes peak recorded intensity and blames it on sound coming from that cryptofarm.

      • Roof chillers can easily exceed 55db. It seems that 80-100db at source is quite possible without noise attentuation. Depending on wind and frequency distribution that could still be extremely annoying at a distance of hundreds of yards. https://sdashrae.org/images/do... [sdashrae.org]

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Those apps are bullshit. That said, 85dB from the distances they are talking about does seem extremely unlikely. In fact I'd say it's impossible, because I don't think small computer fans, or even air conditioning fans, can move enough air to produce the volumes needed. They aren't cumulative either, two fans are not twice as loud as one fan, and there is a limit on how loud any number of them can get in a given space.

        • Those apps are bullshit.

          They might not be perfect (not as accurate as professional equipment), but they are not wildly off, at least no more than that dude's yard sound meters. I kind of doubt he has $5K sound meters in his yard.

        • two fans are not twice as loud as one fan

          If they are running at the same speed and thus producing the same frequency, yes, they are (close, anyway.) However, sampled from other places they are half as loud as one fan, because the interference patterns cancel each other out in some places, and reinforce each other in others.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by XXongo ( 3986865 )

            two fans are not twice as loud as one fan

            If they are running at the same speed and thus producing the same frequency, yes, they are (close, anyway.) However, sampled from other places they are half as loud as one fan, because the interference patterns cancel each other out in some places, and reinforce each other in others.

            No. Unless the fans are perfectly in phase, to a fraction of a wavelength, the interference patterns cancels out, and two fans are twice as loud as one (measured in sound energy).

            (And even if they were perfectly in phase, at any given location some frequencies would cancel, some would add.)

            • (And even if they were perfectly in phase, at any given location some frequencies would cancel, some would add.)

              If they're perfectly in phase then you get a nice orderly pattern. If they aren't, then you don't, but there are still times when the noise level is higher or lower. And with multiple point sources then the additive quality can be even greater. The whole idea that addition only happens with perfectly in-phase sources is dumb.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by XXongo ( 3986865 )

                (And even if they were perfectly in phase, at any given location some frequencies would cancel, some would add.)

                If they're perfectly in phase then you get a nice orderly pattern. If they aren't, then you don't, but there are still times when the noise level is higher or lower.

                These times last a small fraction of a second. And only one frequency will cancel at any given moment.

                And with multiple point sources then the additive quality can be even greater.

                By which you mean worse? It is really hard to coherently phase three sources, and will never happen by accident.

                The whole idea that addition only happens with perfectly in-phase sources is dumb.

                Think it's dumb if you like, but it is correct.

                Unless the sound is coherent and the two sources are in phase, no, you don't get sound cancelling.

          • This reminds me of that Simpsons where Bart connected 10+ megaphones in series and broke every window in town. But as others have said below, sound doesn't work that way.

        • As I recall, if you have one speaker playing a sound of X decibels, and add a second speaker playing the same sound at the same level, it results in a total volume of X+6 decibels.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            Sure, with speakers playing the same sound and the listener positioned exactly between them. It's entirely possible for them to cancel each other out too. With fans producing fairly random noise, there is a whole load of different maths for it.

          • For power it's 3dB per doubling. 6dB is for voltage doubling, but then the current usually also doubles, so you get 4x the power...

          • So a sound at 1 db from two speakers (A and B) will total 7db?

        • They aren't cumulative either, two fans are not twice as loud as one fan, and there is a limit on how loud any number of them can get in a given space.

          Depends on what you mean by 'twice as loud'.

          Two fans emit twice as much sound energy as one fan. So, yes, if that's what you mean by 'twice as loud', two fans are twice as loud as one.

          On the other hand, sound levels are usually recorded in logarithmic units, db. Two fans do not produce twice as many decibels as one fan; two fans will produce 6 db more sound, four fans another 6 db, eight fans yet another 6db. So if by 'twice as loud' you mean "twice as many db of sound," no.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            Waves can cancel each other out.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by XXongo ( 3986865 )

              Waves can cancel each other out.

              They can, but unless they are coherently phased to a small fraction of a wavelength, they only cancel for a small fraction of a second, and even that for only one frequency. For incoherent sources, two sound sources has twice the sound energy of one sound source.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Kremmy ( 793693 )
          These are not just your average computer fans, if they have any dedicated mining hardware. The fans used on dedicated Bitcoin mining hardware are loud, they're loud enough that you don't want to be in the same room with a single one of them. Just one is enough to generate enough noise that you want to put on the hearing protection. If they've stacked those in a field, you very well could be reaching those sort of critical sound masses. It's a physical phenomenon and that's a lot of energy.

      • It can't be 85 dB.

        In the article there is a recording of what it sounds like from someone's driveway. Even if it's not 85 db, that sound 24/7 would be annoying to say the least. Trying to sleep would be a chore.

        • The recording says nothing without a reference sound. That, assuming it's not post-processed (volume amplification, etc).

          Here's a short recording of my PC sound (around 33 dB), amplified through Audacity: https://voca.ro/1lJsKynSTArz [voca.ro]
          And here's the original: https://voca.ro/1cHjHz0oUDG3 [voca.ro]

          It would have been nice to hear a voice over that sample recording from the article.

      • Maybe not 85dB but definitely 55dB. Remember that the dBb isn't linear, it's logarithmic, which means that, in this case, 10dB is 10 times louder (by power output). 55dB compared to reference silence (that's what dB means you don't mention that the reference is. dB is always a comparison, it's not an absolute measurement) is like a conversation at normal volume. 85dB is like being on the sidewalk on a busy street. I could believe that it's possible to get 85dB noise from a huge server from, from the air con

        • Re: Wait... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by stabiesoft ( 733417 ) on Friday January 20, 2023 @10:36AM (#63224954) Homepage
          I think everyone is ignoring landscape. This is blue ridge, so if the guy is opposite the sound via a valley, it becomes amazing how sound travels and is weather dependant as the person notes. I have a church/school across a valley from me. At least 1000' away. On a dry day I can hear them call car orders to load kids up and understand it. I can hear kids playing during the day, actual voices. On humid days, it is much quieter. So terrain and humidity can make a big impact. There is also a commercial building and on almost any day, I know if their condensers are running. A little further away (1200' maybe) and not opposite me in the valley, so not as bad as the church noise transmission but still quite audible.

          I'd also point out that the locals are upset about the power. From the article, "They shut us down on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day every hour for anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes to an hour,” resident Ron Wright told CNN. “Well, once your power goes down, your heat pumps go off and pipes freeze. But less than one mile away is crypto, allowed to run on the low end. As soon as the power came back, boom! They’re cranking before we are.” Requests for comment from the Murphy Electric Power Board were not returned. "

          There is nothing quite like freezing your but off to motivate you, especially below freezing where you are also pretty worried about pipes bursting.

        • Human ears are logarithmic in sensitivity, 3db increase is twice the power, 10db is twice as loud (in human terms). Seenig so many posters throwing around db's its like an audiophjle convention in here.

    • The true cost to society of any cryptocurrency is the gargantuan electricity consumption.
      We don't care the noise
      we don't care the pyramidal scamming
      etc...

    • Yeah that's BS. There might be a real noise issue, but then you don't need special laws for Crypto, just regular noise regulation that applies to everything.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tgeek ( 941867 )

      The hardware is standing in an open field?

      I wondered about that myself . . . clicking on the link shows photos and the CNN video, and this does appear to be the case. The facility is set up like a self-storage facility with server racks facing outwards from the bins and large cooling fans on the backside.

      • Seems like a noise problem that could be fixed with one of those little self propelled lawn watering tractors *inadvertently* set up incorrectly near the property line. I hear computers don’t like to be watered.

    • Re:Wait... (Score:5, Informative)

      by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Friday January 20, 2023 @07:50AM (#63224574)

      Sound grows weaker exponentially by distance IIRC.

      Nope. Sound diminishes quadratically with distance, not exponentially.

      What is going on here?

      A journalist decided to write an "outrage" piece.

      The sound levels are implausible, and the solution proffered is idiotic.

      You don't "regulate crypto" to control noise. You regulate noise.

      Nearly all jurisdictions already have public nuisance laws that limit noise. If the town of Murphy doesn't, the solution is to do what everyone already does.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by lilTimmy ( 6807660 )
        you regulate crypto because it's moronic

      • Nearly all jurisdictions already have public nuisance laws that limit noise. If the town of Murphy doesn't, the solution is to do what everyone already does.

        The noise levels they are describing (50db-80db) are lower than most sound ordinances.

    • If you watch the video they show the place and yes -- there are literally cabinets lined up, standing outside. It's not a building. These are not high-quality data centers, they're hastily-constructed, cheap-ass operations.

  • The Incessant Whine of Crypto Mining (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Friday January 20, 2023 @03:26AM (#63224226)

    And then there's the incessant whining of the crypto miners themselves...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Rei ( 128717 )

      Was thinking of this exact same thing. ;)

      Too bad all of their "crypto island colony" / "crypto cruise ship" / etc ideas keep failing; would be awesome if we could get them all to move to one place and never have to hear from them again.

      I'm not sure they even understand how much most people hate them.

    • This whole story is part of it. The story can be summarized as "we crypto guys do a lot of hard work, and it feels industrial, we're probably the real victims here!"

  • They didn't like something and want to ban it. Sounds like leftist authoritarianism to me.
    BRB planes
    BRB people live near interestates
    BRB is noise harm? What a can of worms that opens up.
    BRB want to shoot guns, and people complain about the noise, but if I want to make my own silencer (because the tax stamp or ridiculous over priced cans) I'd face jail time.
    Makes about as much sense as making sound muffling devices for crypto miners illegal.

    • BRB is noise harm? What a can of worms that opens up.

      You don't have to ask. Yes, noise is harm. There are both psychological and measurable physiological effects, especially when it affects sleep. If I wear earplugs to sleep I get earaches, so that's not a remedy either. I live in a town with literally no noise ordinance right now, and it is shit. One of the neighbors has so much bass it rattles my windows. If I ever snap, I hope he's involved.

    • So when climate change deniers (who are almost all rightwing) wanting to ban windfarms for "the noise", they are leftists also?

      • So when climate change deniers (who are almost all rightwing) wanting to ban windfarms for "the noise", they are leftists also?

        No, just liars. Even in the quietest places, you can't hear a windmill at all from a mile away.

      • So when climate change deniers (who are almost all rightwing) wanting to ban windfarms for "the noise", they are leftists also?

        Climate deniers don't want to ban wind farms. They just don't want their tax dollars to pay for them.

        Red states have installed way more wind turbines than blue states.

        • Of course not. Power generation is a private enterprise, so it should be paid for privately. If someone wants to build a wind farm, great, industry is good. Red States like that sort of thing so they make it easy to do, which is probably why you see more wind farms in Red States.

        • Climate deniers don't want to ban wind farms. They just don't want their tax dollars to pay for them.

          Many of them are also NIMBYs who don't want a wind farm within eyesight. Apparently they're OK with coal plants in their back yards, though.

          • They're also okay with their tax dollars paying for coal and nuclear plants.

            • Re: (Score:1)

              by wed128 ( 722152 )

              no they're not, that's what the electricity bill is for

              • And you don't pay electricity bills for wind generated electricity, dumbass?

                You do realize power plants don't make money while they're being built. How do you think they're paid for?

                • Re: (Score:1)

                  by wed128 ( 722152 )

                  Business loans, just like everything else. Also, I would assume wind electricity is paid for via electricity bill, just like coal and nuclear and oil and gas. I never said any different.

                  • Well, why don't you read the fucking thread as to what I was replying to?

                    • Re: (Score:1)

                      by wed128 ( 722152 )

                      I did. you said, and i quote:

                      "They're also okay with their tax dollars paying for coal and nuclear plants."

                      and I said, "They're Not"

                      that's all. BTW all the namecalling doesn't help your argument.

        • Climate deniers don't want to ban wind farms.

          Yeah they do. They use the noise FUD to try to push through bans of wind farms. The more sophisticated of them pretend to care about individual birds getting killed.

          They will literally argue any concern if it helps them win against "the left".

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by XXongo ( 3986865 )

          So when climate change deniers (who are almost all rightwing) wanting to ban windfarms for "the noise", they are leftists also?

          Climate deniers don't want to ban wind farms.

          Turns out that yes, they do. At least some do.

          They just don't want their tax dollars to pay for them.

          Different people. Pretty much all climate deniers are rightwing, but not all rightwingers are climate deniers. But yes, that too.

          Red states have installed way more wind turbines than blue states.

          Irrelevant. Corporations in red states have installed wind turbines. Corporations go where the profit is, and then go to the legislatures to convince them that what makes them profits happens to be whatever the political orientation of the legislature.

          • Really this. And in the case of wind, where the pork is. I watch ERCOT's site. On windy low consumption days, power prices go below zero. The only way it works is carbon credits pay the wind guys to produce power at negative rates for a net positive. Otherwise you'd shutdown until prices rose above zero again.

      • If they're rich leftists in the northeast who fought tooth n nail to not have wind farms ruin their pretty ocean views, yes.

    • They didn't like something and want to ban it. Sounds like leftist authoritarianism to me.

      This is Republican territory. So yes, total authoritarianism.

    • Kentucky is leftist country now?

      This sounds to me like the usual self-absorbed asshole whining. As in "I wanna do what I want to do and muh freedumz! But if you do the same and it bothers me, I'll cause enough of a stink until you have to stop!"

    • They didn't like something and want to ban it. Sounds like leftist authoritarianism to me.

      Since when is providing citizens quality of life "leftist authoritarianism"? Show me a "rightist free country" and I'll show your ignorant arse their industrial noise pollution laws.

  • Wait'll they get a load of an actual datacentre!

    Seriously though a little damping would fix that right up.

    • The big IBM mainframes used to run a motor/generator to ensure continuous power. That's right, they didn't feed electric power in directly, they used it to turn a flywheel that turned a generator, so when the electric power was cut off, the flywheel would continue turning long enough to bring up a diesel motor to drive it. Of course, and electricity to kinetic energy back to electricity conversion is the least efficient way possible of powering anything! I can only imagine what the motor/generator sounded l

      • Not really, actually. Straight through is more efficient, but the setup you described could easily be 80% efficient or more. Given the technology at the time, that would be pretty good.

        It wasn't just to ensure continuous power. It was also to ensure that ZERO spikes in the power provided got through. Because a lightning strike isn't going to cause that wheel to spin any faster, and the other side was electrically isolated.

        I've seen electrical transformers and regulators done badly that were much, much w

  • Leopards ate their face. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by The Evil Atheist ( 2484676 ) on Friday January 20, 2023 @07:11AM (#63224476)

    But a year and a half after crypto came to this ruby red pocket of Republican retirees and Libertarian life-timers

    What, the party of "freedom" doesn't like people exercising their freedom?

    • Why don't they just "vote with their feet" and move to somewhere less noisy?

    • The noise violated the NAP, they are just giving them the courtesy of involving the state before firing the howitzer.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Burz ( 138833 )

      This is exactly what Republicans tell other people to bear or ignore in the name of growing the economy and "development". But when its about themselves, then they're NIMBYs to the max.

      But here's how you sort out various Republicans: Not living in a town wealthy enough to already have all the NIMBY built-in, vs living in a very expensive community. The former ppl are always angry bc their "country life" becomes a paved-over, noisy stroadville.

  • should be reasonable and practical. The cost of operations to the miner would go up by some amount with higher quality fans/bearings and other sound proofing but I believe it would be marginal.

  • Grr. Ban the effects, not the function (Score:3)

    by nategasser ( 224001 ) on Friday January 20, 2023 @09:08AM (#63224698)

    I have great sympathy for the people dealing with this noise -- and I'm definitely no big fan of crypto anything -- but if mining farms are making too much noise, you regulate the noise. If they're using too much electricity you regulate the power consumption.

    It's just idiotic and reactionary, and ultimately indefensible, to regulate a function rather the side adverse affects.

    This is why cities have laws on the books banning abattoirs instead of laws against dumping animal waste into rivers.

    • Pointless greenhouse gas emissions are an adverse effect. Requiring all significant carbon dioxide emission sources to be in some way necessary is a sensible regulation.

    • Noise is already regulated. Being a nuisance neighbor is also regulated.

      Quiet enjoyment: the tenant must act in a manner that will not disturb the neighbors' peaceful enjoyment of the premises.

  • Isn't this already banned? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jbmartin6 ( 1232050 ) on Friday January 20, 2023 @09:08AM (#63224700)

    "introduce and champion legislation through the US Congress that would ban and/or regulate crypto mining operations in the United States of America."

    Don't they have the usual laws about noise and being a nuisance to your neighbors? If they are pushing for crypto-mining-only legislation it makes me suspect the noise problem is just a smoekscreen.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dfm3 ( 830843 )

      Don't they have the usual laws about noise and being a nuisance to your neighbors?

      They don't. I live not too far from that part of NC and it's an odd mix of locals who just want to do whatever they want on their land (things like shooting guns on Saturday morning and letting their dogs run all over creation) and a bunch of retired folks who move up from Atlanta "to the country" but then turn nimby.

      Outside of the city limits, these are very rural mountains with little in the way of zoning regulations because most people want it that way... at least until their neighbor does something th

  • The only sound I'm hearing is a whining NIMBY. (Score:3)

    by backbyter ( 896397 ) on Friday January 20, 2023 @09:12AM (#63224704)

    Get the US government involved?

    For a libertarian, this should go no further than your local town council, county board at most.

    • Pretty much. I remember reading about another breakthrough technology - thermal depolymerization, if I remember right, which is actually green because it turns organic fats into basically light sweet crude oil, which you can then refine into various materials we currently use oil for(not much of the heavy stuff like the tar they use for asphalt). They built a test plant, but had to modify it ~3 times due to the smells it was releasing.

      Which is kind of why you build a test plant first, because that lets yo

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Burz ( 138833 )

      Its still the hypocrisy of being "anti-development" while pushing it on everyone else, even if you do it at the level of small, wealthy towns.

  • So THAT is why they're shooting up the electric power stations! Seems like an electricity-powered nuisance is pretty easy to stop, albeit not legally.

  • well (Score:4)

    by nomadic ( 141991 ) <nomadicworld@@@gmail...com> on Friday January 20, 2023 @11:36AM (#63225166) Homepage

    "When Judy Stines first heard about cryptocurrency, "I always thought it was smoke and mirrors," "

    Judy Stines has a better understanding about cryptocurrency than millions of tech folks.

  • You want the big bad government to interfere with private enterprise dumping air, err, water, err, noise pollution in your neighborhood while exercising their sacred mission to turn absurd amounts of electricity into heat, noise and Ponzi Bucks?

    Have you thought about becoming rich so you can move away to some pristine area elsewhere so you don't have to live next to this or an exploding fertilizer warehouse?

  • And this is the kind of invasive tech that calls for some torching and pitchfork action, not GSM towers, lol...

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